9000 Starting Gold - The catch? Mundane items only

[Deeds]

Hi, so my DM is starting a new session at level 5. As the title suggests, our starting gold, 9000, can only be spent on mundane things. I'd like some advice on what to buy. Here's some additional info


Any gold not spent is not kept
Alchemical items and special metals (mithral, adamantine) are mundane
I'm playing a cloistered cleric going church inquisitor
DM is providing magical items at the start
Requesting 1125 mules or other similar silliness isn't allowed

[icefractal]

No horde of mules, but what about a single badass mount? I think you could get a pretty nasty Warbeast with that budget. Similarly, the cost to hire a War Troll mercenary is surprisingly low, although that would probably be over the top.

Shax's Indispensable Haversack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-(Equipment-Handbook)) has a lot of useful alchemical items, so that'd be a good place to start. And once you have all the small stuff, I think you could easily spend the rest on fancy armor - what's your Dexterity?

[Necroticplague]

Shapesand and Chaos Flasks are both useful any-tools that you can't go wrong with having a good amount of. Shapesand is somewhat prohibitely heavy, though.

And along the same lines as the Warbeast suggestion, consider a couple high CR slaves. The price for slaves, a mere cr^2*100, is surprisingly affordable for some very potent creatures.

[LordOfCain]

Making things adamantine can't hurt. Or riverine. That stuff's expensive!

[flappeercraft]

What about Aboleth Mucus? Its IIRC in MotP, SS or Planar Handbook

[inuyasha]

Specialize in Craft: (Alchemy) and make nothing but acid and alchemist's fire.


Monsters? Hurt them bad with your vials of doom!
Locked wooden door in you way? Burn it!
Locked Stone door in your way? Eat the lock with your acid.
Someone being a bit unfriendly? Convince the DM that copious amounts of volatile chemicals can give a circumstance bonus on Intimidate checks.
Trying to set up camp in the room that you've now emptied of monsters and doors? Just line the room with these things, with a few decoys in obvious spots that are really just empty glass vials.
Starvation or dehydration setting in? Well, unfortunately you can't consume these things, but with a little ingenuity you can make a pretty impressive alchemical funeral pyre for when you finally croak.

[Zanos]

Cloistered clerics are proficient with light armor, so a mithral breastplate would be a good choice.

[Steven]

Making things adamantine can't hurt. Or riverine. That stuff's expensive!

Does anyone else feel that water enclosed in a wall of force is stretching the definition of mundane? :P

[mabriss lethe]

You can make a "dimestore magic weapon" as it were. Make a masterwork sword out of greensteel. It costs roughly half the price of a +1 weapon but is functionally identical (minus the bit about overcoming dr/magic) since greensteel doesn't automatically include a MW component in its creation. Bloodglass is even cheaper, but has some mechanics that make it prone to breaking.

[Rerednaw]

Masterwork/special materials....and then enchant them yourself.

[Coidzor]

Don't forget, goats and cattle are trade goods.

Banking excess cash in Diamonds as material components for Raise Dead down the line is also an option to investigate.

If you have access to Pathfinder material, there's some rules for permanently hiring or training low level magic users or gaggles of low-level Warriors in the Downtime subsystem (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/downtime#TOC-Rooms-and-Teams).

10-20 level 3 Warriors with bows will be relevant for a few levels, especially if you're using the volley fire rules from Heroes of Battle(IIRC?) and can act as security or what have you for base camps or while in town. 470 gp would get you five of them with breastplates, heavy steel shields, shortbows, lances, longswords, and mounts.

There's also rules for retraining (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/retraining)creatures with NPC levels to have PC levels, should be 30 gp per level per dude to turn them into level 3 Rangers or what have you.

[flappeercraft]

Now that I think about it, check Dragon Magazine 358 Masters Forge article. It has quite a few interesting qualities you might want, and they are non-magical meaninhg you can get them. You can reduce ASF for armor by 5%, increase the AC bonus of an armor by 1, slightly increase damage to melee weapons and all those kinds of bonuses without the need to use magic.

[Particle_Man]

How much would it cost to build/own a church? It would be a nice "home base" (hopefully consecrated ground) and an income stream for later.

[flappeercraft]

How much would it cost to build/own a church? It would be a nice "home base" (hopefully consecrated ground) and an income stream for later.

Definitely out of a 9,000 GP budget. Check Stronghold Builders Handbook, those kind of things in D&D are expensive as crap. Not worth the cost unless the DM homerules it to make it cheaper.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Definitely out of a 9,000 GP budget. Check Stronghold Builders Handbook, those kind of things in D&D are expensive as crap. Not worth the cost unless the DM homerules it to make it cheaper.

Eh, not really. A simple country chapel with a living space for the cleric himself clocks in at a couple thousand. It only gets hillariously expensive when you start trying to get fancy.

OP, have you considered getting a boat? Storwrack has the relevant rules and boats can be fun.

[flappeercraft]

Eh, not really. A simple country chapel with a living space for the cleric himself clocks in at a couple thousand. It only gets hillariously expensive when you start trying to get fancy.

OP, have you considered getting a boat? Storwrack has the relevant rules and boats can be fun.

Kelb considering its 1,000 GP just for a 1 stronghold space (About 20x20x20 ft) for wooden walls, plus another 1,000 for the Basic Chapel component, 10 GP for a Simple wooden door, probably about 100 GP in windows, another 1,700 GP for the Stronghold space and Basic Bedroom component which would need again wood walls for another 1,000 GP, another 1,250 GP for a basic storage space and its stronghold space with another 1,000 for the wood walls. That already nets you a cost of 7,060 without counting the upkeep, possibly hiring a Cleric for the chapel, an office, a kitchen for making food or buying the food weekly, etc, which could easily net you another 3,000-4,000 GP and around 40 GP Monthly.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Kelb considering its 1,000 GP just for a 1 stronghold space (About 20x20x20 ft) for wooden walls, plus another 1,000 for the Basic Chapel component, 10 GP for a Simple wooden door, probably about 100 GP in windows, another 1,700 GP for the Stronghold space and Basic Bedroom component which would need again wood walls for another 1,000 GP, another 1,250 GP for a basic storage space and its stronghold space with another 1,000 for the wood walls. That already nets you a cost of 7,060 without counting the upkeep, possibly hiring a Cleric for the chapel, an office, a kitchen for making food or buying the food weekly, etc, which could easily net you another 3,000-4,000 GP and around 40 GP Monthly.

You don't pay for wooden walls on a ground floor, so you're 4k over on that alone. You don't need the separate kitchen at all either so that's an extra 2k as well.

The basic kitchen is not a home hearth (where cooking is typically done in a medievalesque setting) but a full kitchen for feeding a small garrison staffed with a cook. It's grossly excessive for a lone priest in a country chapel. Simply replacing the furnishings in one of the two bedrooms from the basic bedroom component with pantry and hearth is more than adequate. If you -really- want to be tight about it, the 500 for a basic workspace is still much more appropriate than the full 20ft X 20ft "basic" kitchen (bigger than my -actual- kitchen).

I'll be conservative and only knock 4500 off your estimate for a total of 2,560. Hey look, just a couple grand, like I said. Even your own gross over-estimate was still within the OP's budget and why would he hire a priest when he -is- a priest?

[flappeercraft]

You don't pay for wooden walls on a ground floor, so you're 4k over on that alone.

May I have the source? Just reread my copy of the book and I can't find that.

Also, now I understand why you have that signature

[Zanos]

You could also just use the DMG pg. 101 table, which has the benefit of being 3.5 and core.

A one to three room house with a thatched roof and wooden walls costs 1,000gp.

[Vizzerdrix]

Shapesand. Lots of shapesand. Or Lantan artificer devices.

[SirNibbles]

Invest in a prostitution empire (if it's legal). Your relatively high starting capital will lend you credence as a serious businessman.

Hire a few middle or high class ladies of the night to work for you at a fixed rate. Hire a manager to oversee the acquisition of gentleman callers. You don't have to do any work and the money will slowly flow in. A single trick from a high class broad should yield approximately 5 gold. The daily wage for a level 4 Warrior mercenary is 12 sp. I reckon you could hire a business manager for around 25 sp per day. If you have 4 employees who are being paid 4 gold a day plus 25 sp for the manager, you need them to be turning 4 tricks a day (one trick each) in order to see a profit (15 silver profit if your employees complete four assignments). It may be prudent to give bonuses for extra assignments completed beyond the first. You can easily afford to give the front line employees an extra 25 silver and the manager an extra 10 silver for every assignment completed after the first of the day.

Your employees would be making well above average daily wage for a common citizen while barely having to do any work.

Of course, you will incur additional costs sometimes:
-Paying for a Cleric/Healer/etc. to Remove Disease
-Paying a healer to repair internal damage
-Hiring muscle to deal with customers who overstep their bounds

These secondary issues may require the hiring of a second manager.

Congratulations, you're now employing hardworking people while making a steady income.

You can later reinvest in your business by building a nice mansion in which your employees can operate.

Once you have that space, you can add variety to your business, such as using scrying spells to allow people to simply watch (at a reduced price). Your costs incurred for this do not increase by much- you simply need a one time expenditure for scrying equipment.

[Stealth Marmot]

Dual wield spyglasses!

[Jay R]

The DM probably wouldn't allow it, but my first thought was to buy trade goods wholesale, and begin the adventure by selling them and buying magic items.

[Kelb_Panthera]

May I have the source? Just reread my copy of the book and I can't find that.

Sure, table 2-5 on page 35. It's also mentioned in the Wall section's introduction.


Also, now I understand why you have that signature

:smallbiggrin:

[Deeds]

First off, thanks for the replies everyone! We currently haven't started yet so I'm still open to ideas. :smallbiggrin:


Cloistered clerics are proficient with light armor, so a mithral breastplate would be a good choice.
Pretty nifty at 4200 gp. I noticed Elven Chain (DMG 220) is 4150 but of course breastplate > chainmail.



Banking excess cash in Diamonds as material components for Raise Dead down the line is also an option to investigate.
That seems like a rational option. I forgot to mention it but material components are fair game here.



How much would it cost to build/own a church? It would be a nice "home base" (hopefully consecrated ground) and an income stream for later.

I love this idea! Working out the finer details with the DM shouldn't be a problem.



Shapesand yo
I gotta say I'm definitely getting this one but the item doesn't seem to be well written. With a 20 wisdom score, my 12 pound jug of shapesand can be made into a 10 foot cube of whatever mundane thing I want? Do they really mean a 10 x 10 x 10 cube? Perhaps they meant a 10 x 1 x 1 rectangle. Even if it's the rectangle interpretation it still costs 100 GP on a 9000 gp budget.
Sandstorm pg 102 (pg 99 for chart)

[Kelb_Panthera]

First off, thanks for the replies everyone! We currently haven't started yet so I'm still open to ideas. :smallbiggrin:

No love for my boat idea? :smallfrown:



I love this idea! Working out the finer details with the DM shouldn't be a problem.

Unless you really want to dive into the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook (doubtful if you're not allowed wonderous architecture) just go with the 1000 gp for a simple house or the 5000 gp for a grand house; DMG 101.

Don't get me wrong, I -love- SBG but it ain't simple.



I gotta say I'm definitely getting this one but the item doesn't seem to be well written. With a 20 wisdom score, my 12 pound jug of shapesand can be made into a 10 foot cube of whatever mundane thing I want? Do they really mean a 10 x 10 x 10 cube? Perhaps they meant a 10 x 1 x 1 rectangle. Even if it's the rectangle interpretation it still costs 100 GP on a 9000 gp budget.
Sandstorm pg 102 (pg 99 for chart)

It's 10 x 10 x 10. The limit isn't in the volume, it's in the weight. 12lbs per 100 gp. How much do you reckon a thousand cubic feet of sand weighs?

[Getsugaru]

I know it's been stated already several times, but I feel it deserves a more detailed statement. Buy all the standard gear your character needs, then buy whatever mundane gear you want. Then finish up by buying as much Shapesand (Sandstorm 102-103) as you can afford. Here's why:
As a Cleric and a Church Inquisitor, you are going to have a good Wisdom score. A really good Wisdom score. Shapesand is controlled by making a Wisdom check, so you'll be able to make great use of it.
Shapesand is able to be shaped into the form of any mundane item ever. Waterskin? Yes. Spiked chain? A bit harder to shape, but still yes. Masterwork tool? Easy one. Thieves tools? More parts so a higher DC, but still yes. Spiked full-plate armor? Yep, can do that too. You name a mundane item, it can take on that form. Heck, you can even build a fortress out of it if you want to (nice way to build shelter for the night when camping outside - or for sealing passages inside a dungeon).
Shapesand is the most versatile mundane tool in existence. And it really is mundane, as in "it keeps working in an antimagic field" type of mundane.

I think the point has been successfully made by now. :smallamused:

[Darrin]

I think the point has been successfully made by now. :smallamused:

Not quite. 9000 GP is enough to buy 1080 lbs of shapesand. That's enough to shape a Harley Davidson CVO Road Glide Ultra (905 lbs) and still have enough weight left over to make 17 antimatter rifles (DMG p. 146).

[Kelb_Panthera]

Just googled it because because I got curious.

1000 ft3 of sand weighs around 95000 lbs.

[Celestia]

Not quite. 9000 GP is enough to buy 1080 lbs of shapesand. That's enough to shape a Harley Davidson CVO Road Glide Ultra (905 lbs) and still have enough weight left over to make 17 antimatter rifles (DMG p. 146).
I'm sure using sand to make an antimatter rifle will get a few bookshelves thrown at you. :smalltongue:

[Deeds]

At this point, my 8 STR cleric may have some problems hauling around so much sand. Perhaps my DM will allow a team of mules plus a wagon. Here's a math problem for you guys: is shapesand worth its weight in silver? gold?

Also, what's the point brewing up super sand in a wizard's alchemist lab only to be prohibited by the weight. >_<

[Ursus Spelaeus]

Shape the sand into a wagon, and buy a couple of clockwork steeds to pull it.

[unseenmage]

So fun fact, the body of a Construct isn't magic until animated.
One could purchase the body for later animation. Effigy bodies are especially amusing because your character gets to haul around what is basically an artificial corpse until it gets animated.

Also, though it has no listed price and a price would have to be extrapolated, Quintessence created by the psionic power of the same name is a mundane object.
Just like a Wall of Stone's stone wall Quintessence has a duration of Instantaneous meaning the thing it makes is real and persiste and functions even in an Antimagic field.
I always wanted to get enough of the stuff together to Animate Objects or even Minor Servitor it for fun and profit.

Edit: On the topic of Shapesand, one could also. Animate Objects, Minor Servitor, or even Awaken Sand the stuff at a later date.
Mind that Minor Servitor and Awaken Sand create a free willed sentient friendly construct. It would have to be Diplomanced or Greater Humanoid Essence + Dominated to truly command it.

Also, with enough of it one could make it into an Ornithopter from Arms and Equipmemt Guide if that helps with transport.

[Vizzerdrix]

Shapesand can become any non magical item. Lantan Artificers make non magical items the mimic spells. This is how I got banned from ever being allowed to have shapesand in my last group.

Also the rules on shapesand are a bit wonky. You by it by weight, but you control it by volume and nothing says what the ratio is. You can also keep trying that wisdom check untill you max it to help prevent someone else from over powering your items. Also, the sand shapers ability is a seprate thing and not tied to shapesand, and is also awful.

[Morphic tide]

Pathfinder has rules for increasing the power of a mundane weapon by increasing the price. Well, it's actually mundane weapon creation guidelines, but you can get some rather expensive items. You can have a double weapon that is also a Spiked Light Shield and a Masterwork tool. Depending on how the special material rules interact here, you can have a single entirely mundane item actually cost more than 9,000 GP. You can find these rules in the Weapon Master's Handbook.

The ultimate result is amazing for upgrading magically, as you have three different things to enhance, although standard Double Weapon issues come up and the fact that it is technically a unique weapon of it's own gets in the way of quite a few things. Although you can have it count as a Monk weapon if you feel like it, so that's not one of the problems. I, personally, recommend it because it saves a lot of trouble for Bard gishes by having their instrument and weapon be the same item, while also being a spiked shield for defensive purposes.

[Morphic tide]

At this point, my 8 STR cleric may have some problems hauling around so much sand. Perhaps my DM will allow a team of mules plus a wagon. Here's a math problem for you guys: is shapesand worth its weight in silver? gold?

Also, what's the point brewing up super sand in a wizard's alchemist lab only to be prohibited by the weight. >_<

Turning it into Adamantine and diamonds, of course.

[Pugwampy]

Why is DM giving you 9000 GP if you can only buy normal stuff ?

Whats the point ?

[Morphic tide]

Why is DM giving you 9000 GP if you can only buy normal stuff ?

Whats the point ?

To challenge creativity and ability to plan for future enhancements.

[Doctor Despair]

Why not a church *on a boat*?! Something something transient purity, something something "the world is my chapel"

[PacMan2247]

Why not a church *on a boat*?! Something something transient purity, something something "the world is my chapel"

I'm glad to see someone else went here, too. If the setting isn't really conducive to boats, a carriage would be worth considering- something along the line of the Vistani vardos from Ravenloft. Living quarters and workspace in one travelling package. Making alchemical and minor magic items for sale as you travel should provide a decent income as well (not that adventurers typically have to worry about such). Then again, I've always had a soft spot for Doc Terminus from Pete's Dragon.

[Deeds]

Why is DM giving you 9000 GP if you can only buy normal stuff ?

Whats the point ?
It was kind of a footnote during character creation. DM said he needs to approve our builds and I submitted my items with my build. He said, "no magic items, I'll provide them at start." After adjusting my stuff, I then asked about starting gold/gear and he said 9000 gp.

I'm cool with limiting starting items to mundane. I've run started several sessions where every player and their mother had an anklet of translocation & a healing belt.

[Coidzor]

Also the rules on shapesand are a bit wonky. You by it by weight, but you control it by volume and nothing says what the ratio is. You can also keep trying that wisdom check untill you max it to help prevent someone else from over powering your items. Also, the sand shapers ability is a seprate thing and not tied to shapesand, and is also awful.

Yeah, I was trying to price the amount of shapesand you need to build a Sand Golem or some other construct and gave up with a headache when the apparent price of the shapesand dwarfed the construction cost.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm sure using sand to make an antimatter rifle will get a few bookshelves thrown at you. :smalltongue:

For anything complex, the DM would be well within his rights to call for a knowledge or craft check as houserule.


At this point, my 8 STR cleric may have some problems hauling around so much sand. Perhaps my DM will allow a team of mules plus a wagon.

It's shapesand. Shape it into something with wheels. Rickshaws are quite light for their size and easily hauled. Remember that wheeled vehicles and their content count as 1/4 their actual weight for hauling.


Here's a math problem for you guys: is shapesand worth its weight in silver? gold?

Gold, hardly; 8.33 gp per lb for shapesand vs 50 gp per lb for gold. It is worth a little more than the 5 gp per lb for silver.


Also, what's the point brewing up super sand in a wizard's alchemist lab only to be prohibited by the weight. >_<

Think "rickshaw."

[Stealth Marmot]

Remember that wheeled vehicles and their content count as 1/4 their actual weight for hauling.


Where is this rule found? I believe it but I need a source.

[Getsugaru]

Shapesand can become any non magical item. Lantan Artificers make non magical items the mimic spells. This is how I got banned from ever being allowed to have shapesand in my last group.
Okay, that is just dirty. I love it. :belkar:


Also the rules on shapesand are a bit wonky. You by it by weight, but you control it by volume and nothing says what the ratio is. You can also keep trying that wisdom check untill you max it to help prevent someone else from over powering your items. Also, the sand shapers ability is a seprate thing and not tied to shapesand, and is also awful.
Here's the ratio: 1 cubic meter (which is roughly one 5 ft square-sized cube of sand) equals 1529.20 kilograms. That's the equivalent of 3179.07 pounds.


Gold, hardly; 8.33 gp per lb for shapesand vs 50 gp per lb for gold. It is worth a little more than the 5 gp per lb for silver.
Which means it's worth one and two thirds pounds of trade-good-grade salt. :smallbiggrin:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Where is this rule found? I believe it but I need a source.

A&EG page 43 under drawn vehicles, second paragraph.

[flappeercraft]

Buy Shapesand and make a war tank which has aimable Masterwork Antimatter rifles as part of it, and make it so each one is fired individually so you could literally create a tank and get in it in battle and shoot Antimatter at your enemies. If you want to make it better also add Flamers. Both the Antimatter rifles and Flamers are on DMG page 146.

[Getsugaru]

Another mundane item that is really, really useful is razorfeather ammunition: mundane arrows (or bolts) that count as masterwork, keen, and adamantine. The cost of the arrows is a bit fuzzy, but the feathers cost 50 gp a piece and you can make 50 arrows with a DC 30 craft (weaponsmith) check. If you plan to be a ranged cleric in any way (maybe get yourself a nice light crossbow), these are the mundane arrows to buy when you have around 180 pounds of money (not that all 9000 gp would go to the arrows/bolts alone; that way lies madness).

[Jay R]

Not quite. 9000 GP is enough to buy 1080 lbs of shapesand. That's enough to shape a Harley Davidson CVO Road Glide Ultra (905 lbs) and still have enough weight left over to make 17 antimatter rifles (DMG p. 146).

If you know the shape of every part, and make the roll for every part, and know how to put the parts together.

[Vizzerdrix]

Here's the ratio: 1 cubic meter (which is roughly one 5 ft square-sized cube of sand) equals 1529.20 kilograms. That's the equivalent of 3179.07 pounds.

If the shapesand weighs the same as regular sand, and cant change its mass (I think it can). But then you get into the area of turning a jug worth into a tiny feather. Honestly they could have written a lot of things better, and shapesand is one of them.

[Calthropstu]

I'd buy a nice little keep.

[atemu1234]

Shapesand and Chaos Flasks are both useful any-tools that you can't go wrong with having a good amount of. Shapesand is somewhat prohibitely heavy, though.

And along the same lines as the Warbeast suggestion, consider a couple high CR slaves. The price for slaves, a mere cr^2*100, is surprisingly affordable for some very potent creatures.

That would mean... one CR 9 creature?

[Pugwampy]

I'd buy a nice little keep.

I would buy some property too . Without checking any rules I would estimate a nice domocile is between 2000 and 5000 gp .

[Coidzor]

That would mean... one CR 9 creature?

With 900 gp left over for shapesand or something.


I would buy some property too . Without checking any rules I would estimate a nice domocile is between 2000 and 5000 gp .

Land, it's the only thing that lasts, etc.

[Stealth Marmot]

A&EG page 43 under drawn vehicles, second paragraph.

Ahhh very good. *Ponders adding Bulette trains to his world*

[Morphic tide]

Ahhh very good. *Ponders adding Bulette trains to his world*

Animated object or other construct for the movement, then stack the movement bonuses as high as possible.

[Stealth Marmot]

Animated object or other construct for the movement, then stack the movement bonuses as high as possible.

I didn't misspell "Bulette"

[Morphic tide]

I didn't misspell "Bulette"

In that case, the ideal means is either Animate/Control Undead with arbitrary CL increases or Effigies. Otherwise the upkeep costs become unbelievably huge.

[LightSeeker]

Just an idea. You could buy some lizard folk slaves (bout 4 would do) then get scrolls of polymorph and permanency. You turn the lizard folk into giant carrier pigeons. Our group did this and ended up with flying steeds...cept it wasnt scrolls it was a wish and it happened to all the lizard folk on the planet...hmm..Just a thought.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Ahhh very good. *Ponders adding Bulette trains to his world*

Even a bullette's substantial strength won't allow more than a few fairly sized cars.

[Zanos]

Even a bullette's substantial strength won't allow more than a few fairly sized cars.
It's not uncommon for trains to have multiple engines.

[Kelb_Panthera]

It's not uncommon for trains to have multiple engines.

12 tons a piece, or thereabouts, for the heavy load of a bullette as long as it's on wheels and level ground. You're gonna need a -lot- of bullettes for a substantial train.

[Vizzerdrix]

12 tons a piece, or thereabouts, for the heavy load of a bullette as long as it's on wheels and level ground. You're gonna need a -lot- of bullettes for a substantial train.

What if you build the carts from soar wood to cut down weight? What would the payoff amount to?

[Kelb_Panthera]

What if you build the carts from soar wood to cut down weight? What would the payoff amount to?

The 12 tons I was talking about was the gross weight for the cart and its contents, not just the cargo.

Str 27 = heavy load 1040

*4 for huge = 4160

*1.5 for quadraped = 6240

*4 because wheels = 24960

/2000 for tonnage = 12.48 short tons.

You'll probably lose a couple hundred to the cart itself, depending on materials and structure, but getting much over 12 tons net is gonna be basically impossible.

The near half-ton difference is becasue I just eyeballed the figures earlier.