Will Durkon be able to fix Roy? [Spoilers]

[mockingbyrd7]

Roy just took some serious Trouser Titan damage, do you think it will ever function the same way again??

[SPoD]

If Durkon can cast Resurrection, he can cast Regenerate.

[mockingbyrd7]

If Durkon can cast Resurrection, he can cast Regenerate.

Ah, that makes sense. Still, I winced at that panel when he got pinned by the nuts. Owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[Belkar's Left Foot]

I think he's going to have to ask Belkar for some advice if he ever has problems getting his "rod of lordly might", "extend".

[Bronzeevil]

But doesn't resurrection fix you all up anyway? All you need is a piece of the person to be resurrected, so if they're missing some things, it comes back again.

[Bocc Kob]

But still... Arrow to the nuts... :biggrin:

It can only get better if they forget to remove the arrow before bringing Roy back to life.

[RocketBard]

If Durkon casts Resurrection, the only permenant damage Roy would suffer is the emotional damage that would come if Haley told him about it.

[Cryopyre]

Anyone have any idea what the creature is since h can do earthquake?

[Mystyco]

COUNTER HIJACK :P


It can only get better if they forget to remove the arrow before bringing Roy back to life.

LOL ._.
your sense of humor is quite...umh...nevermind .____.

also, poor o'chul :( (ok, he didn't get shoot in the nuts, but is still a non-happy ending for him :( )

[Krytha]

Belkar is all talk and nothing in the sack.

[Yechezkiel]

Belkar is all talk and nothing in the sack.

Did he disappoint you personally?

[Arnen]

If Durkon casts Resurrection, the only permenant damage Roy would suffer is the emotional damage that would come if Haley told him about it.

I foresee Belkar bringing this up somehow to torment him...

[Bocc Kob]

Better than no talk and an arrow in the sack. :smallbiggrin:

[kpenguin]

But doesn't resurrection fix you all up anyway? All you need is a piece of the person to be resurrected, so if they're missing some things, it comes back again.

Resurrection brings someone to life, but, like with other dead raising spells, doesn't repair apects of the body not necessary to life. You can't replace limbs, give sight to the blind, or errrr... repair a trouser titan with ressurection. You'd need something like Heal or Regenerate for that.

[Demented]

Roy has that big sword, only Celia has anything to worry about.

[Gol_Stoan]

Reminds me of a quote from Kingdom of Heaven :smallbiggrin:


"His hand is hurt my lord,"
"I once fought for two days with an arrow through my testicle."

[Porthos]

Resurrection brings someone to life, but, like with other dead raising spells, doesn't repair apects of the body not necessary to life. You can't replace limbs, give sight to the blind, or errrr... repair a trouser titan with ressurection. You'd need something like Heal or Regenerate for that.

Errrr.... Actually, I would think it would, since the Trouser Titan was punctured after he died. After all you can resurrect someone from a single piece of the body. Heck you can even get a pile of ash to work your mojo.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm

Now if the TT was injured before he was killed, I might agree with you. But in this case, reading the spell description, I would think that resurrection would cover it (IMO, it should default the body to the condition it was when it was killed - It is a 7th level spell, after all).

I suppose what Haley should do, if she thinks this is a possibility, is to hack off a finger from Roy's corpse and give it to Durkon and say "Cast the spell on this. Why? Oh... No reason." :smalltongue:

[Selv]

I think he's going to have to ask Belkar for some advice if he ever has problems getting his "rod of lordly might", "extend".

You are now dead to me.

No wait, that's not right: I'm dead on the inside now.

[Thrall_Of_Ao]

The only question that occured to me when reading it was, "when did Rich start hating Roy so much that he'd put him through this level of humiliation?"

In any case, although Durkon will undoubtedly be able to fix him, I forsee Belkar getting some serious mileage off of this event, which may or may not be a tie in for the impending "mark of justice" activation.

-TOA

PS Thanks for the thread, it cleared up any confusion I had as to what exactly stopped Roys descent into the chasm as it isn't entirely clear in the comic (an unfortunate but inevitable limitation of the art style).

[archon_huskie]

Roy's been a Jerk ever since he picked up Xykon's crown

[Rofl-Falafal]

I doubt the question would have even been brought up if Rich didn't intend for it to be un-fixable (or at least something that will haunt Roy for a while).

[Yeril]

CURE CRITICAL WOUNDS!


Or if roy would rather be touched by a hot kung fu chick than a hairy man theres always Miko Lien Lein Lien for Lay on Hands

[fwiffo]

Huh? Why would Durkon need to fix Roy? It looks like Haley did a fine job already. Ummm... for some of the meanings of word "fix", at least. :)

[kpenguin]

Errrr.... Actually, I would think it would, since the Trouser Titan was punctured after he died. After all you can resurrect someone from a single piece of the body. Heck you can even get a pile of ash to work your mojo.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resurrection.htm

Now if the TT was injured before he was killed, I might agree with you. But in this case, reading the spell description, I would think that resurrection would cover it (IMO, it should default the body to the condition it was when it was killed - It is a 7th level spell, after all).

I suppose what Haley should do, if she thinks this is a possibility, is to hack off a finger from Roy's corpse and give it to Durkon and say "Cast the spell on this. Why? Oh... No reason." :smalltongue:

Well...

From Ressurection's entry:

This spell functions like raise dead, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature.

From Raise Dead's entry

A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current Hit Dice. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature’s equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.

[Saithis Bladewing]

This all depends on whether or not the trouser titan is DAMAGED or GONE. If it's damaged then it could ordinarily be healed by just a simple cure spell and will therefore be fixed when he is resurrected. Otherwise a Regenerate is definitely in order.

[Porthos]

Well...

From Ressurection's entry:

This spell functions like raise dead, except that you are able to restore life and complete strength to any deceased creature.

From Raise Dead's entry:

A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current Hit Dice. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature’s equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.

But this is the key part of the spell (for Resurrection):


The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death.

and


Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of prepared spells.

Under your interpretation we could have a rather odd situation:

Paladin McShiny is killed on the battlefield, and his friends need to get out of there stat. So they hack off one his arms and high tail it out of there. They go, with the arm, and find Cleric McGodly and pay him to cast Resurrection on the arm. By RAW, it works, and Paladin McShiny is healthy and whole.

However, let's tweak the situation slightly. Again, Paladin McShiny is killed on the battlefield. Chaos reigns, and the party decides it has to book, but they decide to split up the party to give themselves a better chance to escape. So they, once again, hack off Paladin McShiny's arm, but in this case Fighter Swingsalot carries off the rest of the body and goes his separate way. Let's say that Fighter Swingsalot gets to Cleric McGodly first, or suppose that the rest of the party lost the arm somewhere along the way before rejoining Swingsalot. Under your interpretation of the spell, if they cast Resurrection on the body, it would be missing an arm.

So we have the extremely weird situation where, if you cast the spell on the chopped-off-after-death arm, it the body is whole, but if you cast the spell on the missing-the-arm body, the body is not whole.

But that's just my Rules Argument. In a Meta-Game sense, the "restore the body to what it was when it died" is supposed to be one of the things that separates this spell from Raise Dead. Look at how they break down the spell in the spell description. They say how long the person can have been dead, if the person can have been undead or not, how much of the body they need, and what state the body is in when the person comes back to life (among other things).

Or to put it another way, if you are correct, then even the ninth level spell True Resurrection wouldn't fix Roy's nads. After all, the spell is identical to Resurrection except for the types of critters it works on and the fact that you need no body at all to cast it. Well that and the cost of the silly thing, but that goes without saying. :smalltongue:

Finally, for the sake of argument, let's say you are right. Then the obvious thing to do is to chop off an undamaged part of Roy's Trouser Titan and cast Resurrection on that. By RAW, the rest of the body would materialize around it. And we really don't want to put poor Durkon through that, now do we? :smallamused:

[Nightgaunt]

hehehe... So the theory is this right?



Resurrection
The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. (The remains of a creature hit by a disintegrate spell count as a small portion of its body.)

+


Raise Dead
While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life.

+


Disintegrate
Any creature struck by the ray takes 2d6 points of damage per caster level (to a maximum of 40d6). Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by this spell is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust.


Means with that logic a disintegrated PC can be brought back to life with a resurrection, but would still be a trace of fine dust. :smallbiggrin: Awesome spell!

[Forevergrey]

It's damn time there was a decent thread on gential piercings on this board.

[Rama_Lei]

Well, for those of us with pets, Roy's already been "fixed" in one sense of the word...

[sir_pudding]

Resurrection brings someone to life, but, like with other dead raising spells, doesn't repair apects of the body not necessary to life. You can't replace limbs, give sight to the blind, or errrr... repair a trouser titan with ressurection. You'd need something like Heal or Regenerate for that.

You seem to be missing the critical bit:

The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death.

That's the whole point of using Resurrection instead of Raise Dead. Raise Dead requires an intact whole body. Resurrection only requires some remains.

[Dervag]

If Durkon casts Resurrection, the only permenant damage Roy would suffer is the emotional damage that would come if Haley told him about it.Or if Belkar does, which is more likely.


The only question that occured to me when reading it was, "when did Rich start hating Roy so much that he'd put him through this level of humiliation?"That's actually a good question, one that had been bouncing around my head, too.

[Milandros]

The only question that occured to me when reading it was, "when did Rich start hating Roy so much that he'd put him through this level of humiliation?"



Pretty much since the beginning...

Roy's always been given a hard time. Whether it's indirect, like Elan ruining everything around him (#4) or his father being a pain (#14) or being poisoned to immobility and scribbled on and humiliated by two members of his own party, or being laughed at for having "great cleavage", he's always been the butt of the joke.

Of course, that's the whole point - Roy is the long-suffering straight-man that allows the zany humour from the others to work. Just as The hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy wouldn't work nearly as well if it was just Zaphod plus his three equally zany cousins instead of Arthur Dent.

If anyone in the order were to get an arrow through the groin for humorous effect, who else would it be? It almost has to be Roy. You can almost see him shaking his head, sighing and saying "typical..." (after all the wincing and shocked "ow!ow!ow!" first, of course :) )

[Scarab83]

PS Thanks for the thread, it cleared up any confusion I had as to what exactly stopped Roys descent into the chasm as it isn't entirely clear in the comic (an unfortunate but inevitable limitation of the art style).

Seemed entirely clear to me. They may be stick figures, but they still have stuff between their legs.

[Angela Christine]

Roy will be ok. Elan knows Mending. It doesn't work if Roy is alive, but as long as he is dead it should work fine, because dead skin is basically leather, right?

A hole in a leather sack or a wineskin is completely healed over by mending.

He has a hole in his leather sack. :smallbiggrin:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Oh. My. God. Haley is going to be wielding roy's greatsword to hack her way to hinjos junk, while roy's arrow is useless, and then durkon's going to raise dead.

And then lien is going to lay on hands. ergh.

[Kel_Arath]

Resurrection brings someone to life, but, like with other dead raising spells, doesn't repair apects of the body not necessary to life. You can't replace limbs, give sight to the blind, or errrr... repair a trouser titan with ressurection. You'd need something like Heal or Regenerate for that.

OK, I am going to sum this up simply and with three words. "Necessary to life" think in the long run.

[Spiky]

This all depends on whether or not the trouser titan is DAMAGED or GONE. If it's damaged then it could ordinarily be healed by just a simple cure spell and will therefore be fixed when he is resurrected. Otherwise a Regenerate is definitely in order.

Arrow is still there. In....something.

[Arnen]

Roy's... you know wasn't damaged before he died, so I think a Ressurection spell would fix that up. :smallsigh:

[Tharr]

Roy shot in his junk and the arrow came then out his other side.
Does this mean Roy will sing alot higher note.

[Scarab83]

Might as well post this here as well.. :smallbiggrin:

An appropriate song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYck6H0MaUk) for the situation.

[mockingbyrd7]

Roy's been a Jerk ever since he picked up Xykon's crown

"I was born a poor black child..."

10 points to whoever gets the reference.

(Note: Not racism, just a quote from a movie.)

[Twilight Jack]

"I was born a poor black child..."

10 points to whoever gets the reference.

(Note: Not racism, just a quote from a movie.)

I less than three Steve Martin. Every read the play he wrote, Picasso at the Lapin Agile?

[KAZMYR]

To clear things up Durkon will most likely be casting RAISE DEAD not ressurection as ressurection costs quite a bit more. Also they are NOT the same spell. (I'm not flaming anyone)

[Khatoblepas]

Raise dead only heals lethal wounds. Lethal.

Which means Durkon's going to be hesitant to heal Roy's... thing once he's returned to life. Why?
:roy:"OH GOD, DURKON! CAST HEAL OR SOMETHING!"
:durkon:"..."
:roy:"WHAT?! WHAT'S THE HOLD UP!?"
:durkon:"It's a touch range spell."

Heheheh. :P

[Hushdawg]

okay, I just re-read the spell descriptions, so basically if all Haley could reel in is a single body part, resurrection would still work.

I do think that Durkon is most likely going to Raise Dead instead of Resurrection since the cost for Res is 10,000 worth of diamonds and I don't think they have those resources

[fangthane]

Roy's gonads were, at the time of his death, intact. At that point, lacking a Charisma score, his corpse became an object. All the damage dealt to his trouser titan or its two little buddies was dealt as one object to another, not sustained as damage by a living creature. Hence, Angela Christine is absolutely correct in believing that Mending should work just fine. Whether Elan or V (it's Transmutation) casts it, Roy's pouch and its contents can be easily restored before he gets raised.

Now, the thing which would have required me to spoiler this if the thread didn't already say it is that I don't give the OotS that much credit for forethought. So what could have been simply handled with a Mending and a Raise will end up requiring more serious measures. Not because it has to, but because it'll be more amusing to see Roy's reaction to the revelation that it could have been handled much more easily. My bet's on Belkar suggesting that it's still an option, and offering Roy the choice between levelin' and lovin'.

[Maratanos]

Dude, they're buddies with Hinjo, remember.


Even if they can't afford Resurrection on their own, remember: there're still tons of people alive from Azure city (and not just low-level commoners, either. Remember, multiple city leaders refused to send their troops into combat. They might have refused that, but they'd probably not refuse to cast a high-level spell for them for pay, and Hinjo's definately got the money to make it happen.



Of course, that may not happen, but it also may not be necessary. For a variety of reasons.




And let's not forget that there's still the talisman. It's entirely possible that CELIA has the means to get resurrection cast as well.

[teratorn]

I do think that Durkon is most likely going to Raise Dead instead of Resurrection since the cost for Res is 10,000 worth of diamonds and I don't think they have those resources
Worst case scenario: Roy's body falls from the ship and they need 25,000 gp worth of diamonds for a true resurrection. Not sure if they have the money, and Hinjo is likely bound by duty to bring back the city's clerics and warriors first.

Most of the dragon's hoard was lost in the fire at the Inn but It's not clear where they kept the 57,150 gp in gold and gems from Xykon's dungeon. Even assuming those were kept in their bags of holding they likely spent it somehow. We can assume Belkar spent most of his 8164 gp in whores (he didn't have enough to raise a soldier), Durkon in beer, V in potions (540 gp just in heroism potions). Elan lost his stuff to his brother (not sure if he got it back).

Haley on the other hand didn't spend much from her share of 16,328 gp (besides the "feminine products"). She's likely the only one rich enough to bring Roy back.

[someonenonotyou]

wait wait wait didn't v say durkon didn't have the right dimonds for raise dead
so that means roy can't be raised right away they are going to have to go to a new city :smalleek: oots0286 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0286.html)

oops some one said that while i was typeing it

[Emperor Ing]

Lets hope Durkon has the jewels necessary to satisfy the needs of everybody in the Order of the Stick

[Hackman]

"I was born a poor black child..."

10 points to whoever gets the reference.

(Note: Not racism, just a quote from a movie.)

Michael Jackson?

[Porthos]

Worst case scenario: Roy's body falls from the ship and they need 25,000 gp worth of diamonds for a true resurrection. Not sure if they have the money, and Hinjo is likely bound by duty to bring back the city's clerics and warriors first.

Out of curiosity, where will they find a seventeenth level cleric to cast the spell? :smallamused:

Even if you presume that the High Cleric of the Twelve Gods was high enough level to cast the spell (highly doubtful), he's a unrecognizable pile of ash buried under castle remains at the moment. And before you bring up the scroll angle, I'm quite sure no one has a scroll of True Resurrection just lying about. :smallwink:

Resurrection? Sure. Durkon is (just barely) high enough level to cast that (presuming they can find the diamonds - big presumption).
True Resurrection? They'd have to wait till they reach the Next Major City and hope there actually is a 17th+ level Cleric there.

[chibibar]

Out of curiosity, where will they find a seventeenth level cleric to cast the spell? :smallamused:

Even if you presume that the High Cleric of the Twelve Gods was high enough level to cast the spell (highly doubtful), he's a unrecognizable pile of ash buried under castle remains at the moment. And before you bring up the scroll angle, I'm quite sure no one has a scroll of True Resurrection just lying about. :smallwink:

Resurrection? Sure. Durkon is (just barely) high enough level to cast that (presuming they can find the diamonds - big presumption).
True Resurrection? They'd have to wait till they reach the Next Major City and hope there actually is a 17th+ level Cleric there.

they can use the diamond that Azure Cleric was using on Shojo's ressurection (which didn't happen and thus there be a diamond)

[Gundato]

The Azure City diamond is a big question mark:

1. I doubt it was really anyone's top priority to grab the diamond(s) when Azure City was falling.
2. It was likely consumed in the attempt to raise Shojo.

Of course, one could easily argue that Hinjo is likely to be willing to chip in on the "Let's Raise Roy" fund raiser.

[Porthos]

they can use the diamond that Azure Cleric was using on Shojo's ressurection (which didn't happen and thus there be a diamond)

The diamond was consumed by the unsuccessful casting of Shojo. It's not listed in the SRD, but it has been clairifed elsewhere (either in the actual spell description in the PHB or in a FAQ/Errata somewhere) that the diamond goes away when the spell is cast, whether it was successful or not.

[bertman4]

Uh, so can someone tell me WHY Haley shot Roy in the nuts?
Bertman

[Elderac]

She did not necessarily intend to shoot him there. Since he was falling, she was looking to pin him to the wall within the limit of her rope. It just happened to hit -there-. It seems that Haley was a little distraught about it at first (hence the ...), but rationalized that Durkon could fix it. Then she got the rope around him so that she and Belkar could recover Roy's body from the crevasse.

[Roderick_BR]

A lot of people in real life would give anything to...revive ... the dead, if you know what I mean :smallwink:

As Khatoblepas said, Durkon's only problem will be if it's a touch spell :smallbiggrin:

[Darkhands]

On Roy's corpse:

I foresee a hilarious story arc of carrying Roy's body around, with it slowly getting more rotten and more damaged as they accidentally do more and more damage to it while trying in vain to keep it safe. Eventually they end up with just a head. :smallbiggrin:

[Breaon]

"I was born a poor black child..."

10 points to whoever gets the reference.

(Note: Not racism, just a quote from a movie.)


Steve Martin, "The Jerk"