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View Full Version : Optimization Making Undead - what methods are there?



Segev
2017-02-08, 05:32 PM
We have the obvious animate dead and create (greater) undead, and the various lists inherent to those spells. There are some undead, such as the (sadly not worth it) blood hulks, which specify in their descriptions how they're made by one of those prior-named spells. In 3.5, Wights can be made by any energy-drain method, which is pretty nice.

Skulking Cysts are created by spells in the Mother Cyst family, usually by brutally erupting from their host.

Some undead have their own specified "necromantic rituals" that make them. Brains in a Jar, Animated Fossils... these are interesting, but sadly lack mechanics. They just say rituals are involved.

Some undead - like Slaymates (a personal favorite) - have specified conditions which cause them to arise. Allips come from those who committed suicide due to madness. Ghouls can spontaneously arise from those who starved to death after subsisting cannibalistically, or who practiced cannibalism for too long before they died. The aforementioned slaymates happen (sometimes) when children die due to the neglect and/or betrayal of one trusted with their guardianship. Mohrgs rise from the corpses of serial killers.

Necromancers who want Slaymates or other undead that have special creation conditions can attempt to orchestrate those, and then hope their control magics are up to the task. Maybe they can use create (greater) undead to animate them, if they have corpses that died "properly," though the rules don't say so (and whether the greater version is needed or not is quite the judgment call).

And then there are the templates one can apply. Spellstitched is a favorite, because it gives very clear mechanics as to how a necromancer can add that to his minions.

Another one that I like is Swarmshifter. Sadly, it has no mechanics as to how to add it to your undead minions, nor even fluff as to what might cause one undead to be a swarmshifter when another isn't. Would your pet Slaymate have to be "born" a maggot or fly swarmshifter, or could a necromancer interested in spell-stitching the little dear also perform a ritual to add the ability to dissolve into a swarm of insects?

How does a necromancer go about making Brains in a Jar, or Animated Fossils, or even Skull Lords?

What does it cost, and how difficult is it? What ideas do you playgrounders have?

And, assuming we can custom build our minions, what traits would your ideal undead servitor bring to the table, and how would you get them?

Zanos
2017-02-08, 07:16 PM
Were you just looking for general resources for necromancy?

9th level, but plague of undead lets you animate skeletons and zombies with maximum hit points.
Awaken Undead can grant mindless undead intelligence scores, and thereby grand them skills and feats.
Animate dead can also create a necrosis carnex(MM IV) at level 11. They aren't strong, but are notable for two reasons. Living creatures within 30 feet of one of these creatures take a -2 penalty on attack rolls and saving throws, and they have an at will touch attack that can heal undead, making them unlimited sources of healing for your minion army.
Revive undead can resurrect undead creatures, but costs 5k and causes level loss, so probably not worth it for what are supposed to be replaceable minions.

Also, bloodhulks do have a niche use. Their power is independent of the component creatures. If your DM is a fan of enemies with class levels, being able to create a pretty strong bloodhulk anyway can be very useful.

D&DPrinceTandem
2017-02-08, 11:34 PM
Dmm Chain, Dmm Reach, Dmm Fell Animate, Stop heart (dmm from complete divine, Fell animate from libris mortis, Stop heart from BoVD)
Basicaly you get a maximum of 20 minions with 1 casting in 3 rounds but they get a save each round: cost 5 Turn attemps

Speedy Build for you!

Human
Cleric of Asmodues 7
Flaw: Fell animate
Flaw: Dmm Fell animate (now you can use any dmg dealing spell to make undead for free-ish)
Human: Reach spell
1: Dmm Reach spell
3: Chain spell
6: Dmm Chain spell (so you have an auto 7 minions when you cast spell if they fail

Items you will likely need:
(Cheesesticks) wait no i mean nightsticks
Slaymate (cost 3 less Turn attempts)


Future lvls
all in Cleric of Asmo
9: Split ray
12: Dmm Split ray (double minions to 40)
15: Delay spell
18: Dmm Delay spell

By lvl 20 you have a Minion beast
Round 1 Dmm Delayed (5 rounds), Split, Chain, Reach, Fell animate Stop heart
Round 2 Dmm Delayed (4 rounds), Split, Chain, Reach, Fell animate Stop heart
Round 3 Dmm Delayed (3 rounds), Split, Chain, Reach, Fell animate Stop heart
Round 4 Dmm Delayed (2 rounds), Split, Chain, Reach, Fell animate Stop heart
Round 5 Dmm Delayed (1 rounds), Split, Chain, Reach, Fell animate Stop heart
Round 6 Bodies hit floor
Round 7 Wait!?
Round 8 Wait?!
Round 9 Pofit now you have a maximum of 200 minions Spending 5 4thlvl spells and 40 Turn attemps Good luck with your new minionmancer !