Dread Necro trick?

[NecroDancer]

I heard there was a trick to get animate dead as a 2nd level spells using the dread necromancer's advanced learning. I can't seem to remember the trick so if anyone could tell it to me that would be great!

Thanks.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Death Masters get Animate Dead as a second level spell; I guess the argument is that it's a necromancy spell on the cleric or wizard list, just... not chosen from said lists? It seems fishy to me.

[NecroDancer]

That was the trick! Glad I got that problem solved, however I doubt any sane DM would let me use it.

[Deophaun]

A bit more on the legitimate side, you can pick it up as a third level spell off the Cleric list, and you can do this when you're level 4 if you have the Versatile Spellcaster feat, due to how fixed list casters know all their spells as soon as they're able to cast them. Versatile Spellcaster lets you cast third level spells from your second-level slots, so you know third level spells, so you can select a third-level spell with Advanced Learning at level 4.

[WhamBamSam]

Animate Dead is a 2nd level Death Master (Dragon Compendium) spell. Getting it as an Advanced Learning spell requires a little bit of probably erroneous rules lawyering though. You'd have to simultaneously argue that Animate Dead is a new spell to the Dread Necro list despite it appearing on the list at 4th level, and that it counts as a Cleric or Wizard spell despite the fact that you're taking it at a different level than it appears on either of those lists, which strikes me as somewhat contradictory.

[OldTrees1]

That was the trick! Glad I got that problem solved, however I doubt any sane DM would let me use it.

Many a sane DM would allow the most Necromancery Necromancers to use Necromancy better than the rest.

[NecroDancer]

A bit more on the legitimate side, you can pick it up as a third level spell off the Cleric list, and you can do this when you're level 4 if you have the Versatile Spellcaster feat, due to how fixed list casters know all their spells as soon as they're able to cast them. Versatile Spellcaster lets you cast third level spells from your second-level slots, so you know third level spells, so you can select a third-level spell with Advanced Learning at level 4.

That's really helpful. It would take up all my feats though (tomb tainted soul and versatile spell casting) but it seems the benefit is worth it.

[Silva Stormrage]

Death Masters get Animate Dead as a second level spell; I guess the argument is that it's a necromancy spell on the cleric or wizard list, just... not chosen from said lists? It seems fishy to me.

You know I JUST noticed that it says Wizard/Cleric list. For some reason I thought it was any necromancy spell with no mention of class... thats surprising and depressing.

[NecroDancer]

The one thing I'm kinda worried about is necromancers seems DM dependent. After all it's not like every enemy has some spare onyx lying around.

[Silva Stormrage]

The one thing I'm kinda worried about is necromancers seems DM dependent. After all it's not like every enemy has some spare onyx lying around.

There are plenty ways of getting it, either buying it from towns or casting it as an SLA (Spell Stiched Template, Pale Master, Horned Harbinger) or other techniques such as fell animate means animate undead is one of the most reliable forms of minionmancy you can get.

[nolongerchaos]

A similar trick is to pick up Animate Dead via Precocious Apprentice, as Precocious Apprentice doesn't specify that the spell has to be 2nd level on your spell list (not the most solid of reasoning, but RAW, I suppose). Oddly that means you get to cast Animate Dead from levels 1-3, and 8+ unless you want to use another feat/advanced learning to cover that gap.

[Lormador]

The one thing I'm kinda worried about is necromancers seems DM dependent. After all it's not like every enemy has some spare onyx lying around.

Oh for sure, moreso than Wizard and Archivist, tight cooperation is required between DM and player, often to the point where (IMHO) hardcore necromancy is better off in a solo game.

You tend to wind up with a bizarre coterie of creatures, all of whom had to be encountered at some point, and you better believe it is a foolish DM whose first thought upon considering any monster for an encounter is not "Will this break the game when it gets animated?" Pseudonatural silver dragons are right out, etc.

Even a lowly Ogre can be pretty rough at the early stages of Animate Dead's accessibility.... especially if it was brought out via scroll by a character who can't even cast the spell yet.

The only source you get real control over is Called creatures killed for their bodies.

It's just a giant pain, out of combat, you can't go into town with those giant zombies and they aren't that mobile. In combat, you need a small novel and half an hour to resolve one round.

[Troacctid]

The rule says quite clearly that the spell must be from the Cleric or Sorcerer/Wizard spell lists, so a spell off of the Death Master spell list is not a legal choice for Advanced Learning.