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Firechanter
2017-02-08, 09:17 PM
Hello Hivemind,

one of our players (PF newbie) has set his mind on playing a gnomish inventor / tinker. He picked the Alchemist class because it felt about right. That would be perfect with 5E races due to the Int boost, but in PF, not so much. Half his racial stat boost goes to waste (Cha is useless for him mechanically), while he suffers from the Str penalty (can't turn into melee monster).

So, well, I'm not the GM but I am trying to help the player out. Firstly, I think I'm going to advise him to change from Alc to Wizard, or at least take an Alc archetype that swaps out mutagen. Secondly, I'm wondering -- is there by any chance a Gnome subrace that grants a boost to Int? I know, we might also just houserule it, but first I'd like to check if there is any material I have missed. I didn't find anything on D20PFSRD.

Vhaidara
2017-02-09, 07:12 AM
Well, what I've done in the past is just swapped them from Cha to Int. There's even precedent (Kitsune recently got a racial trait that lets them make the same swap)

As far as the mutagen, keep it. You can us mutagen to buff Dex (great for bombers/archers) or Con (harder to kill). Or, inventively, as a poison by tricking people into drinking it (seen this done twice, to pretty solid effect)

Psyren
2017-02-09, 07:35 AM
Golarion gnomes are a bit more nature-y and a bit less techy than the WoW and 5e variety, and the Cha boost is meant to reflect their more parochial style. If Keledrath's suggestion of brewing a more scholastic subrace isn't appealing, I'd suggest having your player run a race with a bit more cunning, like a Ratfolk.

Firechanter
2017-02-09, 07:41 AM
Well, he's really bent on playing a Gnome, also he isn't a fan of Furries.
So I guess I'll suggest houseruling it.

CharonsHelper
2017-02-09, 09:34 AM
If you don't want to do pure house-ruling, you could have him play a re-skinned wayang. The stats are pretty much perfect for an alchemist (Dex & Int - mutagenic based is generally sub-par to bomb throwing), and they're small sized.

Psyren
2017-02-09, 09:52 AM
Another alternative is a deep-gnome, aka Svirfneblin. Not perfect alchemist stats but none of them are wasted either, and they have very powerful defenses.

Geddy2112
2017-02-09, 10:09 AM
You could always take the ratfolk mechanics and put them into a gnome body, or just move the CHA boost to INT as suggested above.

Even as is, unless you are going to be running a game assuming very high OP, there is nothing inherently wrong with having a less than totally optimal character.

Grod_The_Giant
2017-02-09, 11:23 AM
On the other hand, they have a great Favored Class bonus for bombs, and if you really want to Pathfinder makes it easy to use Dex in melee. That being said, it's certainly no real issue to swap the Cha boost for an Int one, especially for something like the Gear Gnome setup. (Nor is it honestly that bad not to have a +2 to your primary stat)

Particle_Man
2017-02-09, 01:39 PM
Maybe approach this from another direction: Is there an alchemist archetype that uses cha instead of int for their abilities? I know that there are some sorcerer bloodlines that do this (you can have a sorcerer run off of wis or int instead of cha) but I don't know about alchemists.

inuyasha
2017-02-09, 05:12 PM
The first Pathfinder houserule I ever made was that gnomes get +2 Int, and that's because I prefer Gnome Illusionists to Gnome Bards or Sorcerers. I also like the idea that some of them are your crazy Tinker Gnomes, while others are simply cunning nature-dwellers who make snares to mess with the big folk

EldritchWeaver
2017-02-09, 05:45 PM
Well, what I've done in the past is just swapped them from Cha to Int. There's even precedent (Kitsune recently got a racial trait that lets them make the same swap)

In which book does this racial trait appear?

Vhaidara
2017-02-09, 06:22 PM
In which book does this racial trait appear?

Blood of the Beasts.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-kitsune
Keen Kitsune

Ninjaxenomorph
2017-02-09, 06:31 PM
While Golarion gnomes are inventive, they do so out of a drive to experience new things. Or else they literally start dying. Comes from being not very many steps off from fey, hence the charisma bonus. They get a bonus to a craft or profession skill, but that doesn't help out the actual alchemist class too much overall. What I would do is tell the player that while being a gnome doesn't hurt him as an alchemist, unless he's trying to be a Hyde-style beatstick, it doesn't help him too much overall.

Ratfolk, as mentioned, are better, but anything with an Int bonus would benefit him. Elves, humans, and half-orcs and half-elves can get an Int bonus, and those are just the core races. There are two varieties of Dhampir that get int bonuses, but if they are going for Str/Int, the better option is the Scaleheart skinwalker, depending on how you rule the bonuses lie (Inner Sea Races changed their stats to Str/Con/-Wis, but unlike the Dhampir changes, it doesn't match the original description of the subrace).

Grod_The_Giant
2017-02-09, 08:12 PM
I guess I'll also note that an Alchemist can use that Cha as a social character, with stuff like Focused Scrutiny, Detect/Seek Thoughts, and various disguise spells. Small size also makes 'em that much better at scouting, which is another thing they can be really good at (I'm sorry, Acute Senses, did I hear you say +20 to Perception checks at level 8? I certainly didn't see you with Invisibility/Nondetection/etc). I mean, you'd be better using traits and feats and whatnot to use Int instead, but you can do it.