Would this martial build get to roll the most amount of dice per hit?

[MrFahrenheit]

I came up with the following build, whose objective is highest average dice per round. Doesn't matter the kind of dice, but each hit should be able to sustain the quantity of dice rolled, even if it declines every few rounds. I'm not interested in purely one-off situational features (e.g., bugbear surprise damage, assassinate), but regularly high amounts of dice per round:

AT 15/pal 2/lore bard 3. For the sake of simplicity, let's say the character uses a whip, and that sneak attack is appropriately triggered. For three rounds, each time an attack hits, the player would roll 1d4 (whip) +8d6 (sneak attack) +5d8 (smite) +mod. That's 14 dice, with one fewer d8 every three rounds.

Would there be another martial build that could do more? Only rule is it has to rely on weapon attacks

[Arenabait]

This build except using a maul or greataxe would do 2d6 instead of 1d4, increasing the dice rolled.

[Idkwhatmyscreen]

This build except using a maul or greataxe would do 2d6 instead of 1d4, increasing the dice rolled.

You need Finesse / Range for sneak attack, and if I am correct, you cannot use ranged weapons for smite, so the best would be a rapier, so you would get a d8 instead of a d4, but no reach

Also you could duel wield for 3 attacks each round instead of 1 or 2

But since the whole point is dice per hit, and not dps, you could add Hunters Mark if you can get it

[MrStabby]

Does re-rolling count? If so then the maul + fighting style + savage attacker + booming blade + paladin might work.

[Sicarius Victis]

I bealieve Sage Advice has stated that GWF is only intended to work with the weapon dice.

Also, for the OP's build: Switch Lore Bard for UA Whispers Bard. Lets you spend a use of Inspiration to add 2d6 poison damage to one attack. And add in BB/GFB.

[Gignere]

I bealieve Sage Advice has stated that GWF is only intended to work with the weapon dice.

Also, for the OP's build: Switch Lore Bard for UA Whispers Bard. Lets you spend a use of Inspiration to add 2d6 poison damage to one attack. And add in BB/GFB.

OP's current build already allows for BB/GFB, AT can pick those up, it is just his choice of weapon is stopping him from using it. Switching to a rapier would immediately increase his dice rolled by allowing for BB/GFB.

[Sicarius Victis]

OP's current build already allows for BB/GFB, AT can pick those up, it is just his choice of weapon is stopping him from using it. Switching to a rapier would immediately increase his dice rolled by allowing for BB/GFB.

False. BB/GFB can be done with a whip. They just can't be done at a whip's maximum reach, unless the caster has Spell Sniper.

So no, they do not need to switch to a rapier. When it comes to damage, though, that is preferred.

[Deleted]

Slightly off topic but it seems you can get smite/GFB/BB out to 20'. You need sorcerer tho so that might mess up the "maximum" damage but...

Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage. The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st-level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each spell level higher than 1st, to a maximum of 5d8. The damage increases by 1d8 if the target is an undead or a fiend.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/06/20/ranged-and-thrown-weapon/

"That's correct. A melee weapon with the thrown property is still a melee weapon when you throw it." -JC


So unless there has been an errata (or wording from GFB/BB I don't recall) grab spell sniper and use daggers for "ranged" sneak attack + smite + BB/GFB.

You need some levels of Sorcerer for Distant Spell.

(5' + 5' (spell sniper)) x2 (distant spell) = 20'

[Sicarius Victis]

It may be a melee weapon, but it's still a ranged weapon attack.

[JellyPooga]

Increasing Lore Bard to 6 opens up some more options.

Lore Bard 6/Paladin 2/Arcane Trickster 12 (Caster Level: 11) has a one additional 6th and one additional 5th level spell slot and up to 3rd level spells, two of which can be chosen from any list.

Booming Blade w. Rapier (4d8+4d8 if target moves) + Sneak Attack (6d6) + 4th lvl. Smite (5d8) + 6th level Searing Smite (6d6+1d6/turn; Con ends)

That's 21 dice initially, 25 if the target moves and an extra 1 each turn until the target makes a Con save, dealing a combination of Piercing, Thunder, Radiant and Fire damage.

Second and third turns will only be 20+4+1/turn because you'll be casting Searing Smite as 5th level slots.

After that it starts dropping off sharply because you've now expended all your slots above 3rd level, but so far you will have rolled somewhere in the region of 62-80 dice (assuming three separate targets that all move and all fail every Con save) in those three turns...assuming you don't crit.

[Gignere]

False. BB/GFB can be done with a whip. They just can't be done at a whip's maximum reach, unless the caster has Spell Sniper.

So no, they do not need to switch to a rapier. When it comes to damage, though, that is preferred.

I assumed OP was attacking at range but I stand corrected.

[MrFahrenheit]

The whip was done for sake of example - so it could be more simple to see where each damage die was coming from. So replaced with a rapier (or five feet with the whip), and BB or GFB, we get...
10d8 (rapier, BB/GFB, fourth level smite) + 7d6 (sneak attack). Minus 1d8 from smite every three rounds.
...and since we're only looking at one attack per turn, there's no extra attack for the cantrip to hamper.

I should've clarified earlier: I don't use UA at my table, only published material.

[Asmotherion]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514655-Ultimate-Stone-Sorcerer

It is a melee build, and since you put the pal 2 dip, I suppose you wouldn't mind relying on magic. Thus my creation above.

Rolls 17d8+6d4+48 damage

Alternativelly, I may suggest Eldritch Knight Fighter 12/Paladin 2/Sorcerer 6 With Two Weapon Fighting FS.

He has a 30d8 from divine smite (and the ability to fuel it from sorcerer), 6d8 from two weapon fighting (and using two longswords, after taking the Dual Wielder Feat. Then, with Stone Sorcery you can take Elemental Weapon to add 2d4 with each hit, adding 12d4 to your total for 36d8+12d4+30. The Smite Damage will fall as turns pass, but with right economy, it can last.

[MrFahrenheit]

^this is why I don't allow UA in my game. The series has made some progress, but I'm sticking to published material.

[MrFahrenheit]

Also, what I'm going for with this thread is a bit different than Dice Per Round...I'm looking for max sustainable Dice Per ROLL. So the added d8s from BB/GFB if the target moves don't count.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Also, what I'm going for with this thread is a bit different than Dice Per Round...I'm looking for max sustainable Dice Per ROLL. So the added d8s from BB/GFB if the target moves don't count.
They start adding dice to the original attack's damage at 5th.

[MrFahrenheit]

They start adding dice to the original attack's damage at 5th.

I understand that. I was referring to the "stay put or take 1-5d8 extra" effect.

[Provo]

You could take the martial adept feat. It only adds to one roll per short rest, but it doesn't take from any of the other options presented

[Asmotherion]

I understand that. I was referring to the "stay put or take 1-5d8 extra" effect.

I did not include the extra damage in the example. Only the damage they take directly from the cantrip, without secondary effects.

The paladin's Smite damage is not nessesary a per turn, rather than a pool of extra damage you may or may not use to add in your DPT, with the included value as the maximum value.

[untrippable]

Pick up Hex or Hunter's Mark for 1d6. Enlarge (cast by a friend since you're concentrating on Hex) gives 1d4. Elemental Weapon, probably from a lore bard, can give another 3d4. 1d12 from a Valor Bard's inspiration. Honourable mention to Bless, which gets you 1d4 to attack but not damage.

Though it's more of a party than a single build at this point.

[Provo]

Get proficiency in a poisoners kit (from a background)

This will add 1(Assassins blood) to 12 (Purple Worm Poison) dice.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Booming Blade w. Rapier (4d8+4d8 if target moves) + Sneak Attack (6d6) + 4th lvl. Smite (5d8) + 6th level Searing Smite (6d6+1d6/turn; Con ends)

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold up. Hold up.

Can you use Searing Smite (or another smite spell) and Divine Smite together on the same hit?

[JellyPooga]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold up. Hold up.

Can you use Searing Smite (or another smite spell) and Divine Smite together on the same hit?

Yup! :smallbiggrin:

[Lonely Tylenol]

Yup! :smallbiggrin:

Can I get a source that supports this? Big if true, but I'm away from book and can't check for myself, and even if I could, I don't recall the language explicitly supporting this interaction.

EDIT: Like a RAW clarification from the thread, or a tweet on this from the developers would be ideal. This seems like the sort of thing I'd need to defend at the table.

[JellyPooga]

Both trigger on a weapon attack;


when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one paladin spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target in addition to the weapon's damage.

The next time you hit with a melee weapon attack during the spell's duration...[fluff snip]...and the attack deals an extra 1d6 fire damage to the target...

The "Smite" line of spells are spells with a duration of "Concentration, up to 1 minute", Divine Smite is merely an ability that triggers on a hit with a melee weapon, like Sneak Attack. The fact that it is fueled by spell slots doesn't make it a spell and if the "Smite" spells weren't Concentration, there'd be no reason you couldn't stack them with each other as well (but they are, so the point is moot).

The only real limitation is that you have to cast the "Smite" spell before making the attack, while Divine Smite can be triggered after you've hit.