I'm probably being obtuse: which are the spells a standard cleric can actually use...

[dehro]

by substitution?
by which I mean, a cleric can swap a prepared spell for a cure at any time...
is that limited to "cure whatever wounds", or does it also include stuff like "heal" or spells against poison, illness, curses and such?

[Mr Adventurer]

Just spells with 'cure' in the title, you were right the first time

[Daefos]

Clerics are limited to spontaneously casting Cure/Inflict ____ Wounds and their "Mass..." variants, depending on your alignment. Some feats or alternate abilities may change or add to that, but by default RAW, you get those spells and no more.

[dehro]

that is less than impressive..
it means I have to prepare a bunch of heals and suchlike.. when I have 5-6 spells per level to play with even at 21th level... and also need to do some buffing and such.
compared to sorcerers and walocks I'm much more versatile, of course.. but still.. not being the primary meatshield in the party, I was hoping to get a bit more mileage out of the spell side of things...
balancing the spell selection is going to be a real pain. :smallannoyed:

[Dagroth]

Clerics are limited to spontaneously casting Cure/Inflict ____ Wounds and their "Mass..." variants, depending on your alignment. Some feats or alternate abilities may change or add to that, but by default RAW, you get those spells and no more.

Cure Blindness & Cure Disease can also be spontaneously cast.

[Uncle Pine]

If you need to spend spell slots on things other than healing, grab the Martial Spirit stance for 3,000 gp for infinite out-of-combat healing (or 2 hp/hit in-combat healing).

[eggynack]

Notably, the substitution thing isn't completely limited to cure spells. Per the book of exalted deeds, clerics can spontaneously convert their spells into sanctified spells too. Don't even think you have to be good. Neutral seems sufficient. Champions of valor has some sanctified spells too, if you're looking to maximize that ability. It all comes free too.

[dehro]

how do you buy a stance? :smallconfused:

[Dagroth]

how do you buy a stance? :smallconfused:

Magic item enchanted to provide it, I assume.

[Deophaun]

Magic item enchanted to provide it, I assume.
The closest you get is a crown of the white raven, but those don't give stances.

[Malimar]

Cure Blindness & Cure Disease can also be spontaneously cast.

This would be true, except the spells are actually named remove blindness/deafness and remove disease, and thus do not have "cure" in their names.

[eggynack]

This would be true, except the spells are actually named remove blindness/deafness and remove disease, and thus do not have "cure" in their names.
I was wondering why those spells never have their spontaneous capability mentioned. Separately, now I kinda wanna argue that clerics can cast obscure object, and maybe even secure shelter (which isn't on the cleric list, but spontaneous casting doesn't specify that) spontaneously. Also secure corpse from BoED, if we're going non-core here. Not sure what non-core spells there are off list, but there might be some. Quick search for spells with obscure and secure didn't find anything.

[Murmaider]

If you take the spontaneous domain casting acf from PHBII and have a deity with the healing domain, you can cast heal, mass heal and regenerate spontaneously. Because the healing domain has the whole cure line anyway, you don't really lose out on anything.

[Uncle Pine]

how do you buy a stance? :smallconfused:

Magic item enchanted to provide it, I assume.
A novice Devoted Spirit amulet will allow you access to the Martial Spirit stance if you are at least a 2nd level character as Martial Spirit doesn't have any other prerequisite bar Initiator Level, but see below.


The closest you get is a crown of the white raven, but those don't give stances.
By RAW, a stance is a maneuver. By RAW, a stance also isn't a maneuver.

Stance: A stance is a special type of maneuver.

Stance: A stance is not a maneuver, but a specific fighting method that you can mantain from round to round.
There are reasons to believe that RAI stances are supposed to be maneuvers, as for example martial scripts allow you to "gain the ability to use the single martial maneuver recorded on it for one encounter." However, it's also specified that "Using a script does not allow you to break the normal usage rules for maneuvers. For example, if you would normally be limited to using one stance at a time, that restriction still applies." Why would stances be mentioned if they weren't maneuvers? Martial script can only grant usage of martial maneuvers. Stances can also explicitly activate discipline weapons, despite them working with martial maneuvers only by RAW.
The most common counter argument is that there are two distinct feats that grant martial maneuvers and stances: Martial Study and Martial Stance. Since Martial Study lacks any sort of "Special: you can't grab stances with this feat." line, you could be able to grab stances with Martial Study, thus making Martial Stance useless. There is no decent rebuttal to this other than "ToB really needed an errata, use your brain in the meantime."
However, there are exactly 3 kinds of magic items in ToB that are maneuver-related. These three items being martial scripts, crown of the White Raven (and variations thereof) and discipline weapons. All these three items specify "martial maneuvers". Two of them provide examples of stances working with said items, while the crown has no examples. Can you get stances (= a special type of maneuvers) from a crown of the White Raven? Ask your DM.

[Coretron03]

Don't worry, your not being obtuse, you just have to look at it from a different angle, not straight on. What everyone else is saying is also acute.

Puns aside spontaneous domain casting with the healing domain is basicly spontaneous cures+ however it restricts your domain choices to healing and X and the healing domain generally isn't very good as the +1 caster level to healing spells is generally only 1 more hitpoint per spell. You should probably just buy some wands of lesser vigor/cure light wounds (depending on sources allowed) to cover your out of combat healing and use your spells on something else. Heal is a pretty good spell as it heals from 110 o 150 hitpoints and a plethora of conditions which can make it useful in combat at higher levels.

[dehro]

I know the answer..it's a bit of a grey area and smells of optimisation, which on a tier one class would be mocked to infinity.
I guess I'll just have to be careful about spell selection.
I could use a little help there.
I have glory, protection and air domains which I can cast spontaneously thanks to the spontaneous domains feat.
I need to have at least a few heal and revivify ready.. a freedom of movement option, and buffs and such..
Mmmh tough choices.
Most lists of favoured spells seem to go on a by level logic, rather than on a comprehensive picture. The of thing that happened with my previous character,a favoured soul, was that I'd run out of 4th-6th level spells and still have most of my 1st-2nd level spells, which were mostly useless given the damage output we were facing
Sources allowed for spells are the compendium and the player handbook. Wands I can and probably will get

[Pex]

Cure Blindness & Cure Disease can also be spontaneously cast.

Those spells are Remove Blindness and Remove Disease, not "cure".

Spontaneous Curing is a boon to clerics because the majority of healing you need to do is hit points. You'll have the spells when you need them but still have your other spells when you don't. Affliction heals, like blindness, poison, etc. you don't necessarily want to prepare for because they don't happen often enough. If you know for sure you'll need them, great. Prepare them. For example, prepare Neutralize Poison or even Delay Poison when you know you'll be fighting Drow.

If you have an extra spell slot or two it couldn't hurt to prepare them for emergencies. For example at mid to high level play when you're barely ever casting your low level spells not for Cure Wounds, prepare Lesser Restoration or Remove Paralysis for just in case measures. They can easily become Cure spells if you don't need them.

In general, though, for the remove affliction spells that's what you want for scrolls. Have them when you need them and don't waste spell slots for the 99% of the time you don't. Consider getting a Wand of Lesser Restoration and Wand of Remove Paralysis as they do tend to be needed a bit more often at mid to high level play than you could cover just using scrolls.

Heal is worth the 6th level slot.

[Thurbane]

On a related note, the Divine Restoration ACF (Dungeonscape) allows to to spontaneously cast lesser restoration, restoration, or greater restoration.

[Psyren]

On a related note, the Divine Restoration ACF (Dungeonscape) allows to to spontaneously cast lesser restoration, restoration, or greater restoration.

In exchange for a domain power though. Unless one of my domains was a turkey I'd probably just pack some scrolls.

[Anthrowhale]

If you really want spontaneous casting for a cleric, you should ask if you can use the spontaneous cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm).

I believe this is the only spontaneous caster class in the game which is not a half spell level behind the prepared casters.

[Psyren]

I believe this is the only spontaneous caster class in the game which is not a half spell level behind the prepared casters.

*coughPsioncough*

[dehro]

Might as well go favoured soul again, is what my DM would say to that..
I'm fairly happy with the character as is..I'm just a bit stuck on a few points, but I'll get there

[Anthrowhale]

*coughPsioncough*

That's a fair point. Spontaneous Cleric and Psion then.

[Thurbane]

In exchange for a domain power though. Unless one of my domains was a turkey I'd probably just pack some scrolls.

Well, if you're lumped with a domain like Good, for example, the domain power is nothing to write home about.