Snarl Theory

[RAGE KING!]

I was thinking about the crayons of time, and i thought of something. Maybe the snarl has all the powers of all the gods. it would also have divine traits, and an ability that makes it better against gods. Its stats wouldnt allow certain things though. like con 3572857 str 85348573 and int 4. its also probably evil....and it states in the comic that its chaotic.

discuss.

[Nomadic]

I doubt the snarl is evil...no please, before you pull out the gag and straight jacket and throw me in the loony bin...listen to what I have to say.

The snarl is a being of pure chaos right? Well in general a being of pure something usually has no room for anything else. That is why in DnD you normally have separate gods for good and law and chaos and evil. Not even mentioning the fact that law does not equal good and chaos does not equal evil. Yes, the being attacked creation and destroyed it...but why? Not because it was evil (nor was all of creation necessarily good) but because creation was orderly. Order is an affront to chaos, the being couldn't help but destroy that which went against it's very nature. All it seeks is to undue the law and replace it with chaos. Sure the destruction it caused could be viewed as evil, but the fact is that it is not out of hate or jealousy or anything else evil that it destroyed everything...It was out of natural instinct, a need if you will to assert it's chaos. Heck it wasn't even born out of evil, it was born out of the disagreement of the gods. And disagreement isn't evil in itself, it is chaotic though.

And now that I am done you must please excuse me, I have a court date. The families of about 15000 cat girls sent me a lawsuit notice for the logical murder of their children and spouses.

[TheAlmightyOne]

Wait wait wait. Hang on. If as you claim the snarl destryed the universe purely because it was a thing born of order and law does that mean that the snarl cannot harm Belkar?

[Maratanos]

Uhhhh, no.


However chaotic Belkar may be, he'd be even more chaotic after being pulverized.


From a thermodyamic, entropic perspective. But let's be honest. That's exactly what we're talking about here.

[Charity322]

The Snarl is described in the crayons of time though as malevolent and hateful. That sounds evil to me. It didn't so much want chaos as it wanted destruction.

[Callista]

If it has a mind, it's evil. If it doesn't have a mind--or has such a low INT that it doesn't have the ability to make moral judgments--then it could be CN.

[factotum]

The Snarl was "born of chaos" and didn't understand what the Gods were up to as they formed its prison, so it's definitely Chaotic. Whether it's Evil or not is a whole different argument. I would say it's probably CN--its thirst for the destruction of everything is a manifestation of its hatred of order, not an evil mindset.

Of course, since the Gods probably define what counts as good and evil in the OotSVerse anyway, I suspect they have no problem whatsoever calling the Snarl evil and being done with it...

[Nomadic]

The Snarl was "born of chaos" and didn't understand what the Gods were up to as they formed its prison, so it's definitely Chaotic. Whether it's Evil or not is a whole different argument. I would say it's probably CN--its thirst for the destruction of everything is a manifestation of its hatred of order, not an evil mindset.

Of course, since the Gods probably define what counts as good and evil in the OotSVerse anyway, I suspect they have no problem whatsoever calling the Snarl evil and being done with it...

Yes they can define it...that is until it breaks out of it's prison and redefines them...as nothing :smallyuk:

And yes it is doubtful the snarl has a true mind, a mind requires order, it has none. In fact all it desired was chaos, destruction was just a byproduct. All it has is the instinct to unravel reality. So I would have to say that on the alignment access it is chaotic neutral.

[Khanderas]

The Snarl is described in the crayons of time though as malevolent and hateful. That sounds evil to me. It didn't so much want chaos as it wanted destruction.

As told by a leader of an order of PALADINS and I'm sure the gods (while not directly telling the story) would influence the perception of it.

[Wolfman42666]

The Snarl's nature reminds me of this Tarresque thing I keep hearing about, which is apparently very violent, not evil and not intelligent enough to speak.

So basically is the snarl a Tarresque with the power of the a God. i.e. divine?

[factotum]

The Snarl is the Snarl--I don't suppose it has any close analogue in any traditional D&D creature.

[PirateMonk]

If it has a mind, it's evil. If it doesn't have a mind--or has such a low INT that it doesn't have the ability to make moral judgments--then it could be CN.

Not necessarily. It could be plenty intelligent, but not have what we would recognize as a mind, or just be so different from everything else that it doesn't recognize them as people.

[Rat Bastard]

The Snarl is the Snarl--I don't suppose it has any close analogue in any traditional D&D creature.

If anything, I've always pretty much associated the Snarl with Azathoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azathoth) or something similarly Lovecraftian...

[Oberon]

If it has a mind, it's evil. If it doesn't have a mind--or has such a low INT that it doesn't have the ability to make moral judgments--then it could be CN.

Then, by your reasoning, undead such as zombies and skeletons, which are quite mindsless, are not evil either. Yet in D&D this is not true. Therefore, some creatures (in the universe we are dealing with) are evil by nature, whether or not they recognize it , and whether or not they are aware of their actions at all. In fact, most "evil" characters, in life and in fiction, think that they were doing good the whole time. Only in humour (ie a webcomic) will you get a truckload of villians who delight in evil itself.

Thus, as a malicious creature whose only goal is to ruin everything, I'd say that it is a pretty Evil force. Its intelligence doesn't matter.

[Hai-pe-neki]

ehm...forgive me for my ignorance...where i can find the description of what a Snarl is??

[Dire_Weasel]

Personally I equate the Snarl more with Tharizdun. Yeah, he isn't chaotic, but he seeks the destruction of all of the multiverse and was imprisoned by the gods.

[doliemaster]

He is PURE CHAOS the gods being disorganized with the threads of reality, besides the undead are evil based on the flow of negative energy that keeps them alive, the Snarl is fueled by CHAOTIC energy. Ergo it is either CN or just Chaotic.

[Kish]

ehm...forgive me for my ignorance...where i can find the description of what a Snarl is??

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html

[Hai-pe-neki]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html

Oh thx...not remember this strip!

[Elfanatic]

Hmm, a difficult question. While it is so that being chaotic doesn't mean that one is evil, the difference is very hard to make out. His/her/its goal is to destroy all order. And according to the Crayons of Time, the Snarl believes that everything but him/her/itself to be order.

There is only one 'but' (and no nonsense like "Can I borrow then, I need to sh*t:smallamused: ):
"It grew more hatefull"
OotS 273 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html)


And now that I am done you must please excuse me, I have a court date. The families of about 15000 cat girls sent me a lawsuit notice for the logical murder of their children and spouses.

Oh my god! You killed Kitty!
You bastard!

:smalltongue:

[PirateMonk]

"It grew more hatefull"

See aforementioned "narrated from paladin viewpoint."

[Hankosha]

The Snarl's Alignment: Chaotic Evil.
The Snarl's Level - Divine 200.
Think of the Snarl as a T-Rex. It only knows how to destroy, not how to build.

[holywhippet]

The Snarl's Alignment: Chaotic Evil.
The Snarl's Level - Divine 200.
Think of the Snarl as a T-Rex. It only knows how to destroy, not how to build.

I'm not sure if you could give it an alignment from what I understand. Alignment implies that it is a sentient creature. I don't think it is. To me, the Snarl is pure destructive instinct. Remember that the Gods managed to seal it away because it didn't know that they were weaving a prison around it.

[RAGE KING!]

wow, those last two posts, were....interesting.
-same avatar
-same join date
-the second post quoted the first

well then it's instinct has an alignment. it doesnt, for example
instinctively follow a strict schedule of healing people, and helping old ladys get cats down from trees every day.

it follows no schedule, and destroys everything possible.

its instincts have an alignment.

so id say that its obviously chaotic, chaotic neutral or chaotic evil.

Chaotic and chaotic neutral are pretty much the same, because being strongly chaotic and neutral, the chaotic part would overpower the neutrality, and then it would act entirely chaotic.

edit: i cant remember what i was ging to addd to this post, so i added this =)

[holywhippet]

Maybe instinct isn't the right term. I view the snarl as being akin to a blazing forest fire. It will burn anything that gets in it's path. A forest fire doesn't think though, it just burns stuff.

[Guildorn Tanaleth]

I see the Snarl as being unaligned, like Moloch in NetHack.

[SITB]

I always viewed the Snarl as an opposite of the Discworld Auditors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditors_of_Reality), they represent ultimate order and thus seek to destroy every living thing so everything will remained static and predictable. They seem like Lawful Evil, bit only because we look at it from human perspective, who on the whole pretty much wants to survive.

The Snarl is pretty much the chaotic equivalent.