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SangoProduction
2017-02-10, 03:07 AM
Can I get some help building a character for a campaign? Basic Synopsis of my character: Human raised in a cult of secrets, deceit, and knowledge. His primary job was as an infiltrator to collect more knowledge for the cult, and for his good job, he was transformed into a Changeling. Cult was burned down on one of his jobs when he got back, but has yet to find the culprits. So he wanders (adventures) to find them.

So....yeah. I was wondering how to build them. I was thinking going with Beguiler, because...well, it seems to fit the job. But like...Illusions are always iffy at the best of times, and I don't really know this DM very well. Might not have much buy in from him, which would ruin the entire thing. Also, I rarely run in to groups that optimize well for damage, so not having any damaging options could be ruinous as well.

And Psionics are banned, so nope to that (was going to look toward Telepath). But, I was already thinking of a Cleric dip for Trickery Devotion (because I find it thematic, and I think the character would have use of the feat), but I am already going to want Intelligence for skill points (considering the base skill points) and Charisma for...well, the bonus to skills. I guess it's not all that important.

It's supposed to be a spy. But rogue...ew. Martial class. I could dip in to Dragonfire Adept for that invocation that gives bonus to social skills....but I can't find a story justification for taking that.

Perhaps I should just be Cleric of Charm and Trickery and call it a day? I mean, spells can probably do what I need... Also, can you take both the domain and the Devotion feat? I say this because we are getting double the feats from levels, so it's probably worthwhile to take them as a feat...

I am so torn! I need help!

Prefered skills:
Bluff (Because obviously.)
Decipher Script (Low priority. No one ever takes it, and is rarely used, and the DCs are insane while debatably not being able to take 20)
Disguise (Already got +10 to +20 depending on reading of Changeling's ability. Might not need)
Diplomacy (is always nice)
Forgery (who takes that? Exactly! That's why. Might not be the highest priority, but would be great for the character.)
Gather Information (Eh. I guess this isn't that necessary for in-game purposes.)
Search (how else do you find the documents you're looking for?)
Sleight of Hand (to hide whatever you find)

Here are the rules the DM's laid out. English is clearly not his first language, but I tried and make it readable.
Level 3 Stats: 52 points using the normal points spread out max 18 min -8.
2,700 gp Starting wealth(you can use them anywhere you like even on same item or craft)
Normal Max hp on all levels,

Cross class skills is 1:1 ratio but normal max.

Mounted combat and ride by attack only cost 1 feat for both.
Clerics get improved turning.
Double feats from level
Craft anywhere feat to all.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Craft_Anywhere_(3.5e_Feat)

No race/class/template that let's you fly in antimagic field (dragonborn is an exception)
no homebrew stuff( ask me if you want some anyways but expect no 99/100 times)
feats from ultimate feats book are most likely allowed, but ask when you take one.
No psionics allowed what so ever and you will never meet anything in the world that have it.

unless Material components cost 101 or more, it's free. Unless you try to sell it, for instance: undercutting id item prices cause you don't have to pay the 100gp pearl
you can with a 10 round action (that can't be faster) transfer gold in to material component

max 2 Flaws for extra feats (you're allowed to abuse this)
2 traits allowed from unearth arcana. else it needs approval

Most maneuvers are allowed
Banned Maneuvers so far:
White Raven Tactic

Banned Spells
Grease, Alter Self Spell,All polymorph spell

Race from players handbook are allowed. Others need to be accepted by DM
Elven cats are allowed as a Race:
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Elven_Cat_(3.5e_Race)

level buyoff is allowed (Assuming i can figure it out)

Divine metamagic does not work with the metamagic feat persist

Savage Species book is banned
Bardic Lore is banned(if you would get this: gain the ability to use half your Bard level in place of skill ranks )

ALL Dragon magazine are banned but you can ask for something and if i think it's good for the campaign I'll allow it. I will NOT allow something just cause it's weak. it have to be useful in my eyes.

special weapon meterials (might not work on all weapon):
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Mercurial_Weapons_(3.5e_Equipment)

Note: this is inside a weapon so you can still make the weapon out of other materials like cold iron.

Meteorite:
cost the twice the Adamantium Prices and follows the as Adamantium and give +2 Hit/Damage Even when it's Magical also it's Immune to spells/abilities that effect metal like a rust spell or monster

Vile deed(book) you have to just be evil to get the feats
Book of Exulted deeds (book) you have to be more then just good to take feats from there.(you will most likely lose acces to stuff by during to many evil deeds
feats that needs Location as a Req don't have that Req
Book of Erotic deeds are banned.

Lethan
2017-02-10, 03:49 AM
I might not be the right person to advise here, as I usually play martial classes myself. But I will try to throw a few suggestions out there anyway :smalltongue:

If you want all of the skills mentioned as class skills and a somewhat "darker" themed class, then maybe the Mountebank (from Dragon Compendium) will be for you. It's not a caster, so it fall into the eew - martial class category.

Another option would be to go with Favored Soul. As I recall, it is to the cleric, what the sorcerer is to the wizard. It gives you divine casting based on charisma instead of wisdom.


Just my to cents - and they are not very optimized as such (although the Favored Soul are considered a tier 2 class).

Thaneus
2017-02-10, 03:55 AM
hmm you seem to want to be a high tier for this?
At least fluff-wise from you story a Swordsage (unarmed) 5/Shadow Sun Ninja 2/ Teflammar Shadowlord 5/ Shadow Sun Ninja 8 gets the job done nice though and will be a really nasty guy in and out of combat.
Be a necropolitian... because Ninja... you see.. :)
Only issues here: GM allows to qualify with assassin stance and with the shadowhand teleportation stuff for Teflammar Shadowlord but from the read of it, it should work... otherwise get the template for 2000GP and buy it off
Mask is also a nice Patron deity for your fluff.

SangoProduction
2017-02-10, 04:21 AM
hmm you seem to want to be a high tier for this?
At least fluff-wise from you story a Swordsage (unarmed) 5/Shadow Sun Ninja 2/ Teflammar Shadowlord 5/ Shadow Sun Ninja 8 gets the job done nice though and will be a really nasty guy in and out of combat.
Be a necropolitian... because Ninja... you see.. :)
Only issues here: GM allows to qualify with assassin stance and with the shadowhand teleportation stuff for Teflammar Shadowlord but from the read of it, it should work... otherwise get the template for 2000GP and buy it off
Mask is also a nice Patron deity for your fluff.

No. I don't see. (because ninja)
;)
Also, what template for 2000gp, and how?

Yeah. At least in terms of options available, I want to be higher tier.


I might not be the right person to advise here, as I usually play martial classes myself. But I will try to throw a few suggestions out there anyway :smalltongue:

If you want all of the skills mentioned as class skills and a somewhat "darker" themed class, then maybe the Mountebank (from Dragon Compendium) will be for you. It's not a caster, so it fall into the eew - martial class category.

Another option would be to go with Favored Soul. As I recall, it is to the cleric, what the sorcerer is to the wizard. It gives you divine casting based on charisma instead of wisdom.


Just my to cents - and they are not very optimized as such (although the Favored Soul are considered a tier 2 class).

Mounteback sounds like a really fun concept. But I don't think this one is overtly Evil. More like on the mean/distrusting side of neutral. But It could be refluffed. But then there's the fun concept part gone. Also just kinda seems like a rogue that took a flaw against their sneak attack, and dipped sorcerer for a level before padding it out with levels in expert. Know what? The concept I'll use for another character. The class....not so much.

Favoured Soul...what's the point? It spontaneously does Cleric's spell casting...but lacks the other class features. Might be nice to keep in the back of my mind if Cleric doesn't fall through. I mean charisma casting...

Oh, I guess bard's on the table. Not a bad choice I guess.

Uncle Pine
2017-02-10, 04:41 AM
I think you're on the right track with the Beguiler, since it does seem to fit the character a lot. As for illusions, there are only a handful of "problematic illusions" that Beguilers get (namely the usual silent/minor/major/etc. images), because they're the only ones that are more open ended as far as spell descriptions go. Even barring them, the Beguiler's spell list is solid and has many useful spell (I'm personally a fan of applying Reserves of Strength on mirror image, but YMMV). I suggest you talk with your DM and lay down various hypothetical scenarios in which you'd be able to use the various image spells to get an advantage and see what he'll let you do or not: conjuring an illusory wall? Conjuring the image of a crate around me? Conjuring the illusion of an empty hallway in the first 1.5-ft.-square of a narrow corridor? What if all those are made against mindless opponents?

Another thing worth mentioning is that dipping Cleric 1 can be immensely useful, especially if it's a Cloistered one. Cloistered Cleric is also arguably more fitting, because you won't be using heavy armors and it could reflect the monastic/secluded training that your menthors put you through. Here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773.0) is a whole handbook on the subject. I think some domains that would benefit and/or be appropriate could be: Luck, Knowledge (Devotion), Planning, Travel (Devotion).

SangoProduction
2017-02-10, 05:07 AM
I think you're on the right track with the Beguiler, since it does seem to fit the character a lot. As for illusions, there are only a handful of "problematic illusions" that Beguilers get (namely the usual silent/minor/major/etc. images), because they're the only ones that are more open ended as far as spell descriptions go. Even barring them, the Beguiler's spell list is solid and has many useful spell (I'm personally a fan of applying Reserves of Strength on mirror image, but YMMV). I suggest you talk with your DM and lay down various hypothetical scenarios in which you'd be able to use the various image spells to get an advantage and see what he'll let you do or not: conjuring an illusory wall? Conjuring the image of a crate around me? Conjuring the illusion of an empty hallway in the first 1.5-ft.-square of a narrow corridor? What if all those are made against mindless opponents?

Another thing worth mentioning is that dipping Cleric 1 can be immensely useful, especially if it's a Cloistered one. Cloistered Cleric is also arguably more fitting, because you won't be using heavy armors and it could reflect the monastic/secluded training that your menthors put you through. Here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2773.0) is a whole handbook on the subject. I think some domains that would benefit and/or be appropriate could be: Luck, Knowledge (Devotion), Planning, Travel (Devotion).

hmm. Yeah. I was thinking Cloistered Cleric too.

Thaneus
2017-02-10, 06:39 AM
No. I don't see. (because ninja)
;)
Also, what template for 2000gp, and how?

Yeah. At least in terms of options available, I want to be higher tier.



shadow-walker template is needed as a possible requirement for Telflammar Shadowlord, which can be obtained for 2000G when in good standing with the representing organisation (which can be a sister cult of yours to get them help your revenge)

SangoProduction
2017-02-10, 12:32 PM
shadow-walker template is needed as a possible requirement for Telflammar Shadowlord, which can be obtained for 2000G when in good standing with the representing organisation (which can be a sister cult of yours to get them help your revenge)

Shadow Walker is cool. I'll see if I can't use it.

Is the 2000G required to take the template, or is that in place of the LA, or what?

gorfnab
2017-02-10, 06:45 PM
How about Factotum?

Lormador
2017-02-10, 06:49 PM
Factotum is a perfectly workable class.

Your highest-tier options are Cloistered Cleric and Beguiler.

Telflammar Shadowlord is interesting and a hard one to pull off. It's underpowered until it gets Shadow Pounce at 4th level, at which point it probably becomes unsuitable for most campaigns!

Long_shanks
2017-02-10, 07:08 PM
How about warlock? With the right invocations, you can be really stealthy, and have great social and knowledge skills. It wouldn't be as powerful as a beguiler, but you could almost gave him the same feel. Plus, all the use magic device shenanigans ;)

SangoProduction
2017-02-10, 08:56 PM
How about warlock? With the right invocations, you can be really stealthy, and have great social and knowledge skills. It wouldn't be as powerful as a beguiler, but you could almost gave him the same feel. Plus, all the use magic device shenanigans ;)

Hmm. Yeah. Warlock looks nice.