5th Ed Warlock Invocation Question and Idea

[Hida Reju]

Have any of the splat books given any new options for Invocations? Nothing I have noticed online has mentioned it at all.

Also what would you guys think about a lvl 9+ Invocation that gave you an extra Warlock Spell slot?

[Clone]

Have any of the splat books given any new options for Invocations? Nothing I have noticed online has mentioned it at all.

Also what would you guys think about a lvl 9+ Invocation that gave you an extra Warlock Spell slot?

There haven't been any new invocations from SCAG or Volo's, but there was the SCAG and Unearthed Arcana Patrons of the Undying, the Undying Light and the Seeker Patrons. There is also the Unearthed Arcana Pact Boon the Pact of the Star Chain, the name of that article is "The Faithful".

There is still the new Unearthed Arcana to be released for the Warlock, so there is still hope for new invocations.

Can't comment on the spell slot invocation as I haven't played Warlock to that level, but trading the single use of a spell per day or the option to have some utility for a 50% power increase per short rest at 9th level would be very powerful. One once a day spell slot or maybe 2 spell slots of 1st level would be better for balance I think, but again I don't have experience that far into a game with a Warlock.

[Asmotherion]

Well, it's neither useless nor too powerfull, so I'd say why not? It's not like one more spell per short rest will change the whole cource of play, and you do give up an invocation for it, so...

[rollingForInit]

Also what would you guys think about a lvl 9+ Invocation that gave you an extra Warlock Spell slot?

Feels too much like a tax. That is, something you'd just have to take. With only 2-4 spell slots per short rest, an additional spell slot is a pretty big deal. If it's something most Warlock players feel they need to pick, then it should be in the base class. But the base class is balanced around a specific number of spell slots.

So, doesn't feel like a good idea to me.

A better idea, in my opinion, would be to base it off something like Misty Visions. Take a moderately useful - but not offensive - spell and allow it to be cast at will. Or let the Warlock cast one spell once for free per long rest. Or something similar.

[Tanarii]

I think it's ridiculously overpowered. Warlocks get 8 invocations. You're giving up one of them for +3 5th spells per day? No way.

The post above mine has a good suggestion. At-will spells, spell-like features, or spells 1/day at the cost of a spell slot are the way to go.

[Vaz]

It's not Overpowered in a practical sense; in real game play, it is rare you will get 2 Short Rests a day. Hell, at 6th level for our party, we just don't have the resources against the things we are facing and the numbers we are facing. Literally the only way for us to Survive is to fight no more than 2 fights/day; the moon druid's spell resources and everyone's HP/HD resources just don't last, while as a Tome Warlock, my whole 2 3rd level spell slots are burned on keeping me alive; spare the dying has been instrumental in keeping the party ticking. Mirror Image for the miss chance, and Armour of Agathys puts me at 67HP, and yet I'm still burning through most of those HP as is the rest of the party; no potions.

Are our fights too tough? Maybe. We are a party of 6, with only a Druid to heal. Does that change the fact that any other caster has 10 spell slots a day to my 4? Or my 6? I could Short Rest and be at full HP and spell slots, but the rest of the party cannot continue.

Or at 9th, their 14 to my 4? Or at 11th, 16 to my 9, or at 17th 19 to my 12?

The Warlock is behind at every level until 17th. And guess what? At 17th, it's only behind if stuff you are fighting doesn't burn other party members resource enough.

Its only overpowered because it outweighs every other **** tier Warlock Invocation that isn't Chains of Carceri, or the required Eldritch blast/repelling blast/devils sight or Thirsting Blade/Lifedrinker as appropriate.

All of those come online earlier or later, leaving 9th level abilities. I'd honestly have it as part of a 2 tier chain, i.e, 'A' taken at any level, and 'B' at any point thereafter AND requiring level 9 Warlock.

[Tanarii]

It's not Overpowered in a practical sense; in real game play, it is rare you will get 2 Short Rests a day. I hope your DM told you he was going to be varying significantly and regularly from BtB short rests. That's pretty important to know before choosing to play a short-rest based character class.

[Vaz]

Just the way the combats have turned out. We've had 3 'deaths' in the party that have happened, and were only not final simply because of the individuals doing them in were pressed by others so wouldn't have spent time delivering final blows.

Hell, last combat I went straight from 52 to 11 HP in a single round of combat. Does that sound OP to you for the level we're fighting.

Also, completely forgetting that that Short Rest abilities are irrelevant when it's the HP that are the deciding factor.

[Vogonjeltz]

I hope your DM told you he was going to be varying significantly and regularly from BtB short rests. That's pretty important to know before choosing to play a short-rest based character class.

Quite so, we routinely take as many short rests as we feel like, less than 2 is way off the mark.

[coredump]

It's significantly overpowered for an invocation.

[JakOfAllTirades]

There's simply no way a Warlock wouldn't choose this Invocation ASAP, regardless of other options. Having an extra spell slot is a major power up.

Last time I played a Warlock I went to great lengths to get a Pact Keeper's Rod, just to get the extra spell slot per Long Rest; I didn't care about its other benefits! (Still used 'em tho.)

Maybe an Invocation along those lines - using an Action to recover a spell slot once per Long Rest - wouldn't be a bad idea, but I'm not sure what the level requirement should be.

[Mikey P]

The invocation I would like to see? Something that would give them the flexibility they lost in translation.

Master Arcanist: You can convert the use of an Mystic Arcanum into a Spell Slot or Slots of equivalent size, in any combination. Any remaining spell slots are lost when use of the Mystic Arcanum is restored. If you posses this Invocation, you may change the the spell devoted to one of your Mystic Arcanum selections when you gain a level.

Then you can use your 6th level Mystic Arcanum use to upcast a spell of 5th level, or convert it to two third level spell slots for when the fight keeps raging and there is no rest in sight. Restricting it to Arcanum keeps it out of reach for the lower levels (rather than allowing slot splitting).

I think that would keep people interested in getting past level 10, without getting too out of hand.

[Vaz]

Quite so, we routinely take as many short rests as we feel like, less than 2 is way off the mark.

It matters little how many we take, though. The rest of our party resources are tapped, HP, hit dice etc. Completely tapped. Goibg further, Short Rest or no would see the party killed.

If i was to suggest an alternative fix for my Warlock given light of the info above, what should it be?

[Addaran]

It's not Overpowered in a practical sense; in real game play, it is rare you will get 2 Short Rests a day. Hell, at 6th level for our party, we just don't have the resources against the things we are facing and the numbers we are facing. Literally the only way for us to Survive is to fight no more than 2 fights/day; the moon druid's spell resources and everyone's HP/HD resources just don't last, while as a Tome Warlock, my whole 2 3rd level spell slots are burned on keeping me alive; spare the dying has been instrumental in keeping the party ticking. Mirror Image for the miss chance, and Armour of Agathys puts me at 67HP, and yet I'm still burning through most of those HP as is the rest of the party; no potions.


Have you tried a more aggressive strategy? If you're fiend, one or two well placed fireball might almost finish the fight before it's started. Or you go with control with the likes of hypnotic pattern.

If you already have lots of casters in your party it might not work that well, but the party i was DMing for was very reliant on the warlock's big guns. The fighter was already happy to short rest (he gets everything back) and the sorcerer didn't mind cause it helped a lot his teamates.

[xyianth]

It would be the most powerful invocation on the list, but whether it is actually overpowered for your table will vary. What would not vary however is the chance that every warlock that could take it, would take it. It would basically be a mandatory invocation if it existed. In general, any option that is mandatory is a bad idea. WotC doesn't always follow that of course.

[Vogonjeltz]

It matters little how many we take, though. The rest of our party resources are tapped, HP, hit dice etc. Completely tapped. Goibg further, Short Rest or no would see the party killed.

If i was to suggest an alternative fix for my Warlock given light of the info above, what should it be?

Wait, you guys take less than 2 short rests and manage to burn all your resources before the 2/3 mark? Something is seriously wrong there.

[xyianth]

Out of curiosity, are you facing creatures or humanoids? I've only heard a similar experience to what you're describing once, and it was when a DM was making humanoid enemies using the PHB rules for building PCs and then sending them against the party. As far as I am aware, 5e does not work that way; or at the very least you should treat NPCs with classes as if they had a CR higher than their level.

[coredump]

It matters little how many we take, though. The rest of our party resources are tapped, HP, hit dice etc. Completely tapped. Goibg further, Short Rest or no would see the party killed.

If i was to suggest an alternative fix for my Warlock given light of the info above, what should it be?

Then this feat isn't going to help you anyway...

It sounds like your DM is ignoring how the game was designed to be played. It was designed for lots of fairly easy encounters, that only become threatening because their are many on the same day. Your DM seems to be skipping that and just hitting you with 2 Deadly encounters and then letting you stop for the day.

If that is the case, then classes that refresh on the Long Rest will seem much more powerful, since they get to blow 6-8 encounter's worth of resources on just 2 encounters.

[Vaz]

Then this feat isn't going to help you anyway...

It sounds like your DM is ignoring how the game was designed to be played. It was designed for lots of fairly easy encounters, that only become threatening because their are many on the same day. Your DM seems to be skipping that and just hitting you with 2 Deadly encounters and then letting you stop for the day.

If that is the case, then classes that refresh on the Long Rest will seem much more powerful, since they get to blow 6-8 encounter's worth of resources on just 2 encounters.
Why would 2 extra spell slots not help me?

[Hida Reju]

Well looking back my big issue with the +lvl 7 invocations is that other than the ones specifically for each path the rest pretty much don't add much other than basic utility stuff that any other caster could do.

One gives you unlimited Jump spells, another unlimited speak with dead, yet another gives you levitate at will with a requirement of lvl 9, the last major one is Arcane Eye at will which while not much for battle makes you a cool scout. The only outlier is the Witch sight for sort of a light version of True Sight at lvl 15.

Every other one gives you either a new spell you can blow a Warlock spell slot on and/or a single cast per long rest. The really annoying ones are the ones you get to use once per day and still take up a spell slot that short rest.

Either way it feels like the Invocations are a bit on the weak side other than the Darkness/Devil sight or the Eldritch blast combos and none of them compare to the utility of the Book of Ancient Secrets one.

Unless you want to be the magical equivalent of James Bond cause there is so much disguise/illusion stuff it gets silly. But that is more of a niche character concept.

[skaddix]

There is no point. Any Invocation that gave you extra spell slots would be must pick. Its a tax that would undoubtedly come at the expense of some of the support invocation options. Honestly more invocations and a split between Support and Combat could be better. Because your not giving up your thirsting blade or agonizing blast but some of the more esoteric ones are fair game. And you really should be able to use invocations like cantrips by that I mean no limit.

Honestly, what the Warlock needs is something that doesn't necessitate taking an hour break after every significant combat round. I don't know how half your non Mystic Arcanum Slots back after every combat round ends? Basically it needs a class feature built in to let you recover some slots. Eberron is high magic so I presume they will do some class rebalancing. Although the simplest change might to drastically reduce what counts as a short rest.

So really buff and/or allow more invocations. I mean how many different sight related ones do we need? I really let the out of combat tool ones be at will and then you have to pick a set for combat usage only. And a faster charge rate or more slots. I think you could easily double the non Mystic Arcanum Numbers and you be fine. So from 4 to 8, 2 to 4 etc

At 10th Level the Warlock has 2 Slots.

A Trick: 4/3
Bard: 4/3/3/3/2
Cleric: 4/3/3/3/2
Druid: 4/3/3/3/2
E. Knight: 4/3
Paladin: 4/3/2
Ranger: 4/3/2
Sorcerer: 4/3/3/3/2. Optional Recovery via Sorcerer Points.
Wizard: 4/3/3/3/2. Arcane Recovery so +5 1st Level or 1 5th or some combination thereof For First Short Rest.

So basically with 3 Rest you just barely get more slots then the Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight at 8. I mean sure you don't have level restrictions but still. That is way too little if you ask me. I scale against 2 Short Rest a day. So 1.5-2x more spell slots if you ask me.