Archer build for level 10 character - need help optimizing damage

[ZETHTHERED]

I have acquired enough DM Rewards to create an AL character at 10th level and want to create a ranged attacker.
I am torn between whether to go Variant Human or Elf. I want to use either a longbow or Heavy Crossbow.
Since it has to be AL legal I can only use the PHB + 1 other sourcebook. I have looked at Fighter (Battlemaster),
Ranger, and Bard (magical secrets giving him Swift Quiver at level 10) but am open to other ideas for ranged attacks.
Please feel free to provide advice on how to maximize damage per round.
This is my first post so thanks for your assistance and ideas!

[Asmotherion]

Just to mention it, there is the Archery FS Fighter. You need Sharpshooter and Crossbow expert, and use a hand crossbow. I'd suggest Eldritch Knight since the other two archetypes are more melee oriented.
Both races are good choices; Vhuman gives you faster feat progress, wile any elf (minous drow elf, unless you're playing a campain in the underdark on in the night) will give you better Dex. Dip warlock or magic initiate to get Hex. That's it. :)

[Specter]

The easiest way is to find a way to get advantage or static bonuses to hit on your attack, so that you can wreck with Sharpshooter. If you're on your own, you can always cast Bless (war cleric dip) or hide (rogue). But generous party members can help you wirh Faerie Fire, Greater Invisibility and stuff like that.

Then, there's dice damage: hunter's mark, hex and divine favor can help you there. Personally I prefer the latter because you don't want bonus actions switching targets. If you can, also get the Wizard/Druid to cast Flame Arrows on you. A good machinegun deserves all the buffing it gets.

At level 10, I'd probably go Champion 6/Assassin 3/War Cleric 1. Basic attack would be 1d8+DEX+1d4+2d6+10 if you hit with Sharpshooter (avg29 with 20 DEX). Normally I'd go Battlemaster, but this build will roll so many dice that the more crits the merrier. And since a 19 is always a hit if it's a crit, you'll have a much easier time if you have advantage.

Feats, Sharpshooter of course. Many will suggest Crossbow Expert, but I like to keep my bonus action free, since it sees a lot of use between divine favor, hiding and second wind. If you want to capitalize on assassin's surprise, take Alert.

And last but not least, don't get super neurotic about this stuff. If you're dealing at least as much damage as your companions, you should be fine.

[Zene]

Are you going to spend DT to immediately catch up to 11? If so, sharpshooter crossbow expert vhuman battlemaster fighter with hex via magic initiate should pull ahead of other builds at 11. And doing a straight fighter build will give you lots of other benefits.

If you're able to use DM rewards pick up the staff of swarming insects for consistent advantage, then vbard 10; or a war cleric 1 / Battlemaster fighter 5 / rogue assassin 5 build; will probably be better.

[ZETHTHERED]

[QUOTE=Asmotherion;21696814]Just to mention it, there is the Archery FS Fighter. You need Sharpshooter and Crossbow expert, and use a hand crossbow. I'd suggest Eldritch Knight since the other two archetypes are more melee oriented.
Both races are good choices; Vhuman gives you faster feat progress, wile any elf (minous drow elf, unless you're playing a campain in the underdark on in the night) will give you better Dex. Dip warlock or magic initiate to get Hex. That's it. :)



I'm a little confused about the Hand Crossbow.
Are you saying use 1 Hand Crossbow?
I don't see how using a Hand Crossbow will maximize damage but please educate me?

[Zene]

[QUOTE=Asmotherion;21696814]Just to mention it, there is the Archery FS Fighter. You need Sharpshooter and Crossbow expert, and use a hand crossbow. I'd suggest Eldritch Knight since the other two archetypes are more melee oriented.
Both races are good choices; Vhuman gives you faster feat progress, wile any elf (minous drow elf, unless you're playing a campain in the underdark on in the night) will give you better Dex. Dip warlock or magic initiate to get Hex. That's it. :)



I'm a little confused about the Hand Crossbow.
Are you saying use 1 Hand Crossbow?
I don't see how using a Hand Crossbow will maximize damage but please educate me?

Hand crossbow with crossbow expert allows you to use your bonus action for an extra shot.

[ZETHTHERED]

[QUOTE=ZETHTHERED;21696953]

Hand crossbow with crossbow expert allows you to use your bonus action for an extra shot.


OK - sorry so dense but have never used a Hand Crossbow.
So - would you get 1 shot off with the hand crossbow in your left hand, a shot off with the hand crossbow in your right hand and then a bonus action extra shot?
Thanks for the clarification!

[Yagyujubei]

[QUOTE=Zene;21696959]


OK - sorry so dense but have never used a Hand Crossbow.
So - would you get 1 shot off with the hand crossbow in your left hand, a shot off with the hand crossbow in your right hand and then a bonus action extra shot?
Thanks for the clarification!

no because the offhand attack in two weapon fighting requires a bonus action as does the extra attack from xbow xpert. basically Xbox Xpert give you the benefits of dual wielding without having to use two weapons OR you can roll around with a longsword and an xbow and do it that way. I think xbow xpert with a shield in offhand is a really strong build pretty much at all levels though so if you're planning on taking your character up to 20 or even just a few more levels higher I would go with that one personally as a fighter or rogue. If youre just going to be playing at lvl 10 though I think straight ranger is probably stronger.

[ZETHTHERED]

Are you going to spend DT to immediately catch up to 11? If so, sharpshooter crossbow expert vhuman battlemaster fighter with hex via magic initiate should pull ahead of other builds at 11. And doing a straight fighter build will give you lots of other benefits.

If you're able to use DM rewards pick up the staff of swarming insects for consistent advantage, then vbard 10; or a war cleric 1 / Battlemaster fighter 5 / rogue assassin 5 build; will probably be better.


Won't have enough downtime for this character to go to 11 so will be at 10th.

[Citan]

I have acquired enough DM Rewards to create an AL character at 10th level and want to create a ranged attacker.
I am torn between whether to go Variant Human or Elf. I want to use either a longbow or Heavy Crossbow.
Since it has to be AL legal I can only use the PHB + 1 other sourcebook. I have looked at Fighter (Battlemaster),
Ranger, and Bard (magical secrets giving him Swift Quiver at level 10) but am open to other ideas for ranged attacks.
Please feel free to provide advice on how to maximize damage per round.
This is my first post so thanks for your assistance and ideas!
Hi!

Well, you have many ways to go at it.
Single-class
The simplest would be Fighter 10 with Archery Fighting Style, Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter and heavy crossbow. Then take either Battlemaster for extra precision, or Eldricht Knight for extra resilience (damage wise BM is better obviously).
Just shoot everything.
"Bad"thing: it's very simple, may be boring at times.
"Good" thing: it's nasty damage-wise already, and you get another attack per turn next level.

Possibly better in "simple" category would be Hunter Ranger obviously: same setup, except that you have one more attack, although a bit inconsistant (Horde Breaker), and Hunter's Mark, along with other great spells.
"Bad" thing: a small part of its efficiency rely on resource (spell), another small part rely on DM (Favored Terrain + enemy).
"Good" thing: much more versatile than Fighter thanks to spells, get Volley next level which will be often as good as Fighter's 3rd attack, and occasionally much better.
Spells especially are nice: stealth (Pass Without Trace), control (Ensnaring Strike, Fog Cloud, Plant Growth, Silence), damage (Flame Arrows, Lightning Arrow, Hunter's Mark), defense (Absorb Elements, Protection from Energy), all at once (Conjure Animals).

So either you want a "simple & stupid" build and go Fighter (although truthfully knowing when to use Manoeuvers does require some thought and finesse) or you want a more flavorful build and go Ranger (so you can play with some nice spells).

Dual Class
Many dips provide great benefits:
Rogue 3 Assassin: if you like ambushes and stealth generally, this is the best by far: +2d6 damage, Expertise in stealth, autocrit against surprised enemies.
Cleric 1: Bless to help with precision or defense.

Bear Barbarian 3: very niche, not for you since relying on thrown weapons though (well, having a great defense is always great, but 3 levels dip just for that is too pricey for you imo).

Devotion Paladin 3: very niche, hard to build because of stats but would pair nicely with Fighter. Is it worth delaying 3rd attack by three levels though? Unless you really like the fluff idea, probably not. Of course, if this is a character for a one-shot... ;)

I would suggest a Hunter 7 / Battlemaster 3 as the classic sniper.
Battlemaster 7 / Assassin 3 could also work great.
More unusual build would be Ranger 9 with War Cleric 1 to trade HM for either Bless or Divine Favor.
Another unusual build, Ranger 5 / Tempest Cleric 5: idea here is to use CD with Lightning Arrow as often as possible, and wait to take 6th level in Cleric for funny rider control (push away any surviving foe).

Heavy Multiclass
Since the main problem with pairing several classes is how to level up the character, why not profit from the fact you start directly at 10th level?
My suggestion of heavy, borderline stupid, but still nice multiclass (not 100% damage at all though, more an good all-around one)...
Fighter 1: Mariner (or Two Weapon Fighting, or Defense) Fighting Style, Second Wind, Constitution saving throw, equipment proficiencies...
Life Cleric 1: Sacred Flame, Guidance, Bless, Sanctuary, Healing Words, Command.
Druid 1: Mold Earth, Produce Flame, Shape Water, Goodberry, Absorb Elements, Fog Cloud, Entangle, Earth Tremor.
Rogue 2: Expertise in Stealth and Perception (or Acrobatics), bit of extra damage. Cunning Action for extreme mobility/stealthiness.
Hunter Ranger 5: Archery Fighting Style, Horde Breaker, Extra Attack, Hunter's Mark, Ensnaring Strike, Darkvision, Pass Without Trace, Silence.

This is not a good idea if you plan to use this character in a campaign in which he could reach much higher levels, because you are too spread out in classes.

He would still be good though: as a starting Variant Human you can have both 18 DEX and Sharpshooter with a longbow.
During encounters, you can either use Bless or Hunter's Mark, depending on whether you can more precision first (to ensure Sharpshooter) or more damage first and whether your allies also need help or not. You can also cure allies when needed or help tailor the battlefield.

Your bonus action is usually spent on Cunning Action, occasional Healing Words. You could even spend your 11th character level if/when you get it for either Thief archetype (Use object as bonus action) or Mastermind archetype (Help as bonus action).

Outside encounters, you have several utility spells available, including the gold stealth one, and you can spend whatever slots you have left as Life Goodberries for the next day.

Main drawbacks are 1) that if you are stuck in melee range for whatever reason, you will have to resort to melee weapons
2) you only have one ASI overall, and next ASI will come much later however way you go at it. 3) It is clearly not the best damage-wise (not 20 DEX, less single-target damage than other builds).

Because of this, that character could be great in a small (1-3 characters) party. Apart that, take it just as a wild idea and take instead a more classic build. ;)

[Infernalis]

The simplest would be Fighter 10 with Archery Fighting Style, Crossbow Expert, Sharpshooter and heavy crossbow.

Heads up that the bonus attack from crossbow expert only applies when you use your attack action to attack with a single handed weapon (usually the hand crossbow).

[Infernalis]

I think xbow xpert with a shield in offhand is a really strong build pretty much at all levels though so if you're planning on taking your character up to 20 or even just a few more levels higher I would go with that one personally as a fighter or rogue.

You need a hand free to load a hand crossbow, which means you cannot weild a shield with it in your offhand (there's a sage advice somewhere stating this).

[Naanomi]

You need a hand free to load a hand crossbow, which means you cannot would a shield with it in your offhand (there's a sage advice somewhere stating this).
Though it is still a great archer build (I played a halfling version of it, worked fantastically)

[KnotaGuru]

You also need a free hand to load your crossbow, so you'd only get that bonus shot once during combat if you preload the hand crossbow. Then you'd have to drop the weapon in your other hand to load the hand crossbow again.

For a ranged attack specialist, fighter or ranger works. You'll need the archery fighting style to offset the attack penalty from sharp shooter and the extra attack. Rogue assassin adds some extra oomph and other rogue goodies. I'd say fighter (any archetype) or ranger 5/rogue assassin 3 is the basic build. You can advance further in either class after that or another class, like war cleric as someone suggested.

[bid]

I have looked at Fighter (Battlemaster), Ranger, and Bard (magical secrets giving him Swift Quiver at level 10) but am open to other ideas for ranged attacks.
Well, you could refluff blastlock as an arcane archer.:smallbiggrin:

BM can start with SS and Dex20, you have archery style and 5d10 to spend on precision attacks. You will always hit for heavy damage and get your 3rd attack on the next level. OTOH, you don't gain much by skipping the progression.

Bard has a slow start, skipping to level 10 helps you more, but it's more a control class than damage.


BM 5 / rogue 5 can start with SS and Dex18, archery style and 4d10 SD for precision attacks. You get an extra 3d6 damage from SA and you can CA to disengage when needed. Assassin works well with action surge, even if surprise is rare enough. You may want to BM 6 for Dex20.

Hunter 5 / rogue 5 doesn't have the BM SD but that's it. AT for spell slots.

[Naanomi]

For a different flavor archer, a rogue focused sniper roite is viable as well. Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Rogue +X assassin focused on big devastating sneak attack longbow strikes. Sharpshooter (though not always using the +10) and Skulker; the rest to flavor. Wood Elf or Drow to taste/theme. Probably not as much damage round per round as a hand crossbow build (unless you get Hasted and shuffle the actions for shenanigans) but more utility and potential for taking out key targets before combat really begins is unrivaled

[Specter]

For a different flavor archer, a rogue focused sniper roite is viable as well. Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Rogue +X assassin focused on big devastating sneak attack longbow strikes. Sharpshooter (though not always using the +10) and Skulker; the rest to flavor. Wood Elf or Drow to taste/theme. Probably not as much damage round per round as a hand crossbow build (unless you get Hasted and shuffle the actions for shenanigans) but more utility and potential for taking out key targets before combat really begins is unrivaled

Sniper build? Definitely ranger instead of fighter. Stealth quality brought you by: Pass Without Trace.

[Naanomi]

Sniper build? Definitely ranger instead of fighter. Stealth quality brought you by: Pass Without Trace.
Only one level of fighter for archery style, no giving up any sneak attack dice that way in the long run

[Specter]

Only one level of fighter for archery style, no giving up any sneak attack dice that way in the long run

Just getting two attacks along Hunter's Mark and Colossus Slayer trumps any 2d6 extra sneak. But if the game doesn't go far, then your approach is better.

[Naanomi]

Just getting two attacks along Hunter's Mark and Colossus Slayer trumps any 2d6 extra sneak. But if the game doesn't go far, then your approach is better.
Benefits and hinderances to both. Ranger 5 isn't getting you any impressive spells (hex can be picked up with magic initiate, though I might prefer bless: usable for the surprise alpha strike in ways hunters mark struggles with) and the extra attack doesn't work if you have a haste buddy to help sneak attack twice a round. I'm also reluctant to give up Assassin's level 17 ability for a sniper concept.

Both builds are viable of course, a matter of preference... hand crossbow battle master likely outdamaging either I suspect in a pure damage math comparison

[ShikomeKidoMi]

OK - sorry so dense but have never used a Hand Crossbow.
So - would you get 1 shot off with the hand crossbow in your left hand, a shot off with the hand crossbow in your right hand and then a bonus action extra shot?
Thanks for the clarification!
No, you use one handcrossbow. You attack with it. Then Crossbow Expert gives you another bonus action attack with it.
Using two weapons would make it impossible to reload the crossbow. And the extra attack from two weapon fighting uses a bonus action, anyway. You only get one bonus action so the two feats would compete with each other for your bonus action. And since Crossbow Expert gives you several other bonuses to ranged attacks, you would want to take it instead of two weapon fighting.

There's a lot of cool complex builds that can really make a strong archer. However, if you've never made one and want to keep things simple, take Battlemaster Fighter with the Archery fighting style. Make sure one of your battlemaster abilities is Precision Attack and eventually take the Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter feats. Fighters get extra feats (seven to the five most classes get), so you should be able to take both, especially if you play a variant human (put your racial ability bonus in Dex). A variant human fighter can pick up both feats and get +4 to Dex by level 10, which is where you're starting. Then, in a fight, just take the Sharpshooter penalty to hit and bonus to damage. If an attack looks like it's going to miss but not by a lot, apply Precision Attack to it for +your superiority dice to hit (you get to choose to apply this bonus or not after seeing your attack roll). With experience, you'll learn which fights you should spend superiority dice on and which aren't worth spending any.


You also need a free hand to load your crossbow, so you'd only get that bonus shot once during combat if you preload the hand crossbow. Then you'd have to drop the weapon in your other hand to load the hand crossbow again..

You don't need a weapon in your other hand, though. The hand crossbow itself is a light weapon, which is enough to trigger the Crossbow Expert feat, which is better than two-weapon fighting for an archer.

[tieren]

It's a bit unorthodox but consider 5 levels as land druid, grasslands circle. You get invisibility and haste.

I'd put the other 5 in ranger to start and all future levels in rogue. You can use summoned animals to satisfy the ally within 5 feet req to always get your sneak attacks in.

[mrdexter7755]

My own archer that I've been using in AL is a variant Human battlemaster with Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert. He does, on average 60+ damage at will, not using any special abilities like superiority dice or action surge. Although he does have some advantages because I picked up a +2 hand crossbow from a past epic.

With the bonuses he had at lvl 10, I had a +8 to hit and dealt 1d6+17 piercing damage 3 times. Suffice to say, my DM raised the health of some of his monsters to keep the game entertaining for the party. On an action surge I was usually able to take down a Frost giant in one turn.

Also, the benefit of going Battlemaster is the ability to gain battlefield control with maneuvers. I could fear opponents away from me, distract them to give my allies advantage, goad them into attacking me while I'm 100 ft. away, or pop a superiority dice to become more accurate with a precision hit, turning my misses into hits.

While there might be more optimal builds with multiclassing, I felt that in the long run going at the very least 11-12 fighter would be best, seeing as I get my second extra attack and another ABI/feat.

After I hit fighter 12, I was thinking of going 3 ranger after to pick up colossus slayer and hunter's mark.

[Yagyujubei]

You need a hand free to load a hand crossbow, which means you cannot weild a shield with it in your offhand (there's a sage advice somewhere stating this).

my DM let me do it on the principle that the shield was strapped to my arm like a buckler so it my hand was free. I guess it wasn't RAW but you can see if your DM would let you do that...probably not in adventure league though i guess.

anyway if youre gonna stay at lvl 10 hunter archer (sharpshooter/longbow/archery style) is unbeatable at will dps imho. take a level of fighter for AS and you can get some spike dps in there too

[Byke]

With the new warlock Moon Bow invocation. I was looking at an EK or Ranger/Fey lock combination as being the interesting smite archer build.

[rooneg]

With the new warlock Moon Bow invocation. I was looking at an EK or Ranger/Fey lock combination as being the interesting smite archer build.

Honestly, as it's currently written I'm not convinced it's worth it. The lycanthropes thing is complete fluff, and this only works with that particular pact weapon. That means you can't ever use your smites with a regular magical bow, so you're less accurate. On top of that, 3 levels is a heck of a dip.

[coredump]

I am often curious about threads where the OP never responds....


My advice: Don't do it. Don't start at 10th level. Why? Why skip all of that tier 2 goodness? If you only get to play every few months, then maybe. But if you like the concept, why skip so much of its playable career?

I am playing a Ranger5/Rogue5 longbow. Vuman with Sharpshooter at level 1, then Dex to 20.

2-3 attacks per turn means sneak attack lands *every* round, Hunter's Mark and Horde Breaker is a big increase in damage output. SInce AL, you get access to the only Oathbow in the game. Cunning Action is amazing on an archer. Disengage those pesky melee mooks, and Hide whenever appropriate.

I am pretty sure it will out damage any other build, and its fun to play from level 1 onwards.