Daring Outlaw build for webcomic

[danielxcutter]

Yeah... For those who don't know, I'm making a webcomic in the style of OotS, and some prominent characters are seven epic-level(specifically ECL 24) adventurers. I'd decided on six of their builds:

*Human multiclass martial adept, based on Darrin's Archon of Nine build. Leader.

*Elan Ranger/Psion(Egoist)/Slayer gish, using Rapidstrike and Claws of the Beast for lots of damage in melee and offensive powers for ranged combat. May also have the True Healer ACF.

*Elf Wizard/Druid/Arcane Hierophant/Mystic Theurge with double 9ths.

*Half-Orc Fighter/Barbarian with charger build and Spirit Lion Totem + Trapkiller ACFs.

*Warforged NG Incarnate. Skillmonkey, meatshield, and whatever else Incarnates do well.

*(probably) Human Warlock, with Glaivelock build and focusing on blast shapes/essences.


And now I've decided on the seventh: a TWF Daring Outlaw build. Any advice? Here's what I want to do:

*Penetrating Strike ACF, to bypass crit immunities.

*Ambush feats. Because just plain Sneak Attack TWFing gets boring.

*Perfect TWF and Lingering Strike for epic feats.

*Dragonfire Strike for extra damage, flavor, and maybe ignoring crit immunity if the wording means that.

Of course, general advice is always welcome.

[danielxcutter]

Bumping. I guess the Spot check DC was too high?

[WhamBamSam]

You would benefit from some means of moving and full attacking. You don't want Pouncebarian because of overlap and seemed not happy about Travel Devotion and Cleric dips in the last thread. Would a Death Delver dip for Travel Devotion fuel feel better? Any outlaw who lives to see epic levels should have stared down death at least once, especially if they're genuinely daring.

Ambush feats strike me (pardon the pun) as being pretty bad. Sickening Strike might be okay if you can concoct some means of advancing the sickened condition to nauseated, but I can't come up with one. Maiming Strike on a crit fisher is a classic though, and it seems to synergize with Lingering Damage as well.

If you're going for Dragonfire Strike, you should get Draconic Heritage somehow to make the damage non-fire. A level of Dragonblood Sorcerer is the usual way, but if you really don't want that for whatever reason, you can also use a level of Dragon Shaman per text in Dragon Magic.

[danielxcutter]

You would benefit from some means of moving and full attacking. You don't want Pouncebarian because of overlap and seemed not happy about Travel Devotion and Cleric dips in the last thread. Would a Death Delver dip for Travel Devotion fuel feel better? Any outlaw who lives to see epic levels should have stared down death at least once, especially if they're genuinely daring.

Well, Lion's Charge is on the Druid spell list...


Ambush feats strike me (pardon the pun) as being pretty bad. Sickening Strike might be okay if you can concoct some means of advancing the sickened condition to nauseated, but I can't come up with one. Maiming Strike on a crit fisher is a classic though, and it seems to synergize with Lingering Damage as well.

Pun pardoned. :smallbiggrin:

Also, what about Staggering Strike?


If you're going for Dragonfire Strike, you should get Draconic Heritage somehow to make the damage non-fire. A level of Dragonblood Sorcerer is the usual way, but if you really don't want that for whatever reason, you can also use a level of Dragon Shaman per text in Dragon Magic.

Hmm... Silverbrow Human isn't enough, then?

[WhamBamSam]

Well, Lion's Charge is on the Druid spell list...Fair enough, a wand of that held in a wand chamber of your weapon


Also, what about Staggering Strike?Oh yeah, Staggering Strike is pretty good. It might even stagger a target for two rounds with Lingering Damage, though the save DC will be lower the second round.


Hmm... Silverbrow Human isn't enough, then?Nope. Dragonfire Strike says this...

If you have the Draconic Heritage feat or if you are a half-dragon, the extra damage is of the energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) that corresponds to your heritage or your draconic parent instead. If your feat or your parent is not associated with one of these energy types, this feat has no effect for you.Emphasis mine. Silverbrow Human meets neither criterion on its own.

I'm also somewhat skeptical of Dragonfire Strike getting through Sneak Attack immunity based on the way it's written, but if it didn't it'd be a largely pointless feat.

[Gruftzwerg]

Since you said (in the other thread) that it will be a Dex build, I have found somethinglast night that might be interesting.

If you should intend to use maneuvers, the Shadow Blade feat would be nice. It let's you add your Dex bonus on Shadow hand (stance) weapons (dagger, short
sword, sai, siangham, unarmed strike, and spiked chain).

I think the Shadow Hand maneuvers and stances would fit the theme, but the question is if you can squeeze it in the build?^^

edit: together with weapon finesse you could even dump Str.

[danielxcutter]

Fair enough, a wand of that held in a wand chamber of your weapon

Or a continual item of it. Epic WBL's pretty high, after all.


Oh yeah, Staggering Strike is pretty good. It might even stagger a target for two rounds with Lingering Damage, though the save DC will be lower the second round.

Hmmm... Gonna have to think about that last point...


Nope. Dragonfire Strike says this...
Emphasis mine. Silverbrow Human meets neither criterion on its own.

I'm also somewhat skeptical of Dragonfire Strike getting through Sneak Attack immunity based on the way it's written, but if it didn't it'd be a largely pointless feat.

Er... I meant, can't Silverbrow humans just take DH?

[danielxcutter]

Since you said (in the other thread) that it will be a Dex build, I have found somethinglast night that might be interesting.

If you should intend to use maneuvers, the Shadow Blade feat would be nice. It let's you add your Dex bonus on Shadow hand (stance) weapons (dagger, short
sword, sai, siangham, unarmed strike, and spiked chain).

I think the Shadow Hand maneuvers and stances would fit the theme, but the question is if you can squeeze it in the build?^^

edit: together with weapon finesse you could even dump Str.

Nah... Overlaps with the leader for ToB.

[WhamBamSam]

Hmmm... Gonna have to think about that last point...I don't see how it wouldn't work. I'm not sure what else besides the melee sneak attack would be causing the damage they took on the following round, and if they're taking damage from a melee sneak attack, they're susceptible to Staggering Strike.


Er... I meant, can't Silverbrow humans just take DH?No. It has a prerequisite of Sorcerer level 1. You can get around this with the Dragontouched feat, but that requires sinking three feats just into getting Dragonfire Strike. As I said, there's also a rule in Dragon Magic allowing Dragon Shamans to count as having the relevant Draconic Heritage, though you'll get more out of a level of (Stalwart?) Dragonblood Sorcerer.

[danielxcutter]

I don't see how it wouldn't work. I'm not sure what else besides the melee sneak attack would be causing the damage they took on the following round, and if they're taking damage from a melee sneak attack, they're susceptible to Staggering Strike.

Yeah... Probably right.


No. It has a prerequisite of Sorcerer level 1. You can get around this with the Dragontouched feat, but that requires sinking three feats just into getting Dragonfire Strike. As I said, there's also a rule in Dragon Magic allowing Dragon Shamans to count as having the relevant Draconic Heritage, though you'll get more out of a level of (Stalwart?) Dragonblood Sorcerer.

Yeesh, if that's true, how the heck do DFI Bardblades afford all those feats? I guess it must be worth it?

[gorfnab]

For a build you could go with Swashbuckler 3/ Sneak Attack Fighter 3/ Feat Rogue 14 (not necessarily in that order though). With a loose reading of Daring Outlaw this would net you 11d6 sneak attack, 8 bonus feats, and 16 BAB. The bonus feats would give you room to fill up the Two Weapon Fighting chain as well as having room for Combat Reflexes, Mage Slayer chain, Skewer Foe, etc. Craven will help with more sneak attack damage. Darkstalker combined with the Dark Creature Template or Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis makes you extremely hard to detect. For flavor options you could also go with Whisper Gnome for the race and the feats Magic in the Blood and Silencing Strike.

[Darrin]

Yeesh, if that's true, how the heck do DFI Bardblades afford all those feats? I guess it must be worth it?

The original Bardic Badass by JanusJones is simple enough that it doesn't require a lot of feats. Here's how he describes the feats:

"Dragontouched (1st), Dragonfire Inspiration (human), Song of the Heart (3rd), Song of the White Raven (6th), Words of Creation (9th), Two-Weapon Fighting (12th), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (15th), Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (18th)."

Everything after Words of Creation at 9th is mostly just frosting on the cake. The real damage from the build is mostly dished out by your allies. Whether you spend your last three feats on TWF or archery or basketweaving is mostly up to personal tastes.

If you're happy with just [fire] damage, and at 12d6 that's more than enough to overcome any fire resistance short of outright immunity, then you can skip Dragontouched at 1st by selecting Silverbrow Human as your race. If you'd rather switch to [sonic] damage... I'm not a big fan of [Exalted] feats, so I'd probably trade Words of Creation for Draconic Heritage. Another option would be Bard 6/Warblade 14, using Eberron's Music of Creation rule to swap Suggestion for Song of the Heart at 6th. That frees up a feat slot at 3rd to take Draconic Heritage.

As far as Daring Outlaw goes... I may throw together a Kenku build later. Right now I'm thinking Rogue 4/HnR Fighter 1/Swordsage 2/Swashbuckler 13 with Shadow Blade, but the Swordsage recharge mechanic is irking me. I'd rather dip Warblade and take Martial Study/Stance, but I'm not sure there are enough feat slots for everything. If you really want Dragonfire Inspiration in there, then Hand of the Winged Masters (Dragon Magic) might be worth a look.