Warlock queztions!!

[Sir cryosin]

1. What are some of the better choices for 6th - 9th?
2. How effective is a necrolock, a warlock that use his spell slot to keep his hord up and just using Eldritch blast. For this attacks?
3. What are strategies and combos you can do with a single class Warlock? Sorry I haven't played a warlock.

[djreynolds]

The guides are great, and yes you can just have hordes and spam EB. You can max that charisma.

Single classed, mind you haven't played to 20th level, I grabbed moderately armored and got the shield proficiency, not for the shove but for the pseudo evasion and went with shield and no weapon and just hung out like a slinger would with a shield and sling, but shield and EB.

This way you have dex sort of covered taking half damage from AoE and disintegrate, you have wisdom and charisma saves and now just grab resilient con.

Single classed is okay. I maxed out charisma(4th and 8th), grabbed moderately armored (1st level human variant), shield master (12th) grab resilient con (16th), and then would've thrown another in con but we never got past level 16.

I was like the party archer with EB and had oodles of utility stuff

[Dalebert]

Single classed is okay. I maxed out charisma(4th and 8th), grabbed moderately armored (1st level human variant), shield master (12th) grab resilient con (16th), and then would've thrown another in con but we never got past level 16.

Wow, you went that long without resilient? I guess you're primarily just EBing but not hexing much?

[Sir cryosin]

Wow, you went that long without resilient? I guess you're primarily just EBing but not hexing much?

In practice I found that having con save is not a must. It is always nice to have but not a must.

[Dalebert]

Either Resilient Con or Warcaster are almost always my first feat at 4th level for any caster other than a sorcerer. It seems like a prerequisite.

[Arcangel4774]

2. How effective is a necrolock, a warlock that use his spell slot to keep his hord up and just using Eldritch blast. For this attacks?
3. What are strategies and combos you can do with a single class Warlock? Sorry I haven't played a warlock.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these two points non-compatible? I don't think warlock get any minion spells besides elementals from an invocation and I the old ones thrall.

[Dalebert]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these two points non-compatible? I don't think warlock get any minion spells besides elementals from an invocation and I the old ones thrall.

They can take Create Undead as a mystic arcanum. In fact, they could take it four times using all their mystic arcanums, i.e. Create Undead cast at 6th level, 7th level, 8th level, and 9th level giving them a variety of undead minions.

[Sir cryosin]

I might be mistaken but I also believe that they get animate dead as a invocation. But it's only wants for a long rest thought.

But that's the purpose of me asking this question how viable would be a necrolock. I know a lot of higher level spells seem cool and all but I would be the person who would spend my six 7th 8th and 9th level spell slots on crate undead to get to get those minions. Also a little side question if I pick up the inspiring leader feet I could give my Undead minions temporary hit points to as well right.

[Dalebert]

Also a little side question if I pick up the inspiring leader feet I could give my Undead minions temporary hit points to as well right.

Unless someone brings a reason to my attention, I don't see why not.

[Naanomi]

I might be mistaken but I also believe that they get animate dead as a invocation. But it's only wants for a long rest thought
Not in any official material

[Solunaris]

They can take Create Undead as a mystic arcanum. In fact, they could take it four times using all their mystic arcanums, i.e. Create Undead cast at 6th level, 7th level, 8th level, and 9th level giving them a variety of undead minions.

By the strictest interpretation of RAW, no they can not; though any reasonable DM would allow them to take any of the 6th or higher spells in place I'd wager.

But reading Mystic Arcanum, they must take the appropriate spell for that level as opposed to a Sorcerer who simply gains the spell slot and a spell known at the same level. No stipulation like the Warlock that is must be of the specific spell level.

[Citan]

They can take Create Undead as a mystic arcanum. In fact, they could take it four times using all their mystic arcanums, i.e. Create Undead cast at 6th level, 7th level, 8th level, and 9th level giving them a variety of undead minions.
Unfortunately, I don't think by RAW you can learn the same spell just on the basis this is a spell that can be upcast with higher slots.
At least when I read the related Mystic Arcanum description.

If you have some source claiming the contrary though, I'm interested, it could open the way to many interesting choices. ;)

[Dalebert]

You can because that's the general rule. Any spell upcast with a higher level slot IS that level of spell, e.g. a fireball cast with a 5th level slot IS a 5th level spell. This is true for any other spellcasting rule, e.g. if you try to counterspell it, it's only an automatic success if you used a 5th level slot for counterspell.

Thus it is also true for Mystic Arcanum. Create Undead cast with a 7th level slot is a 7th level spell. So a warlock can learn Create Undead cast at 7th level as his 7th level Mystic Arcanum by RAW. It's a 7th level spell that's on his spell list.

And though it's unrelated to a RAW discussion, I would also just like to add that this is not broken. Any wizard could do the same thing only better because they have more 6th+ level slots than a warlock has MAs. At least it's no more broken than a wizard and arguably less so.

[Citan]

You can because that's the general rule. Any spell upcast with a higher level slot IS that level of spell, e.g. a fireball cast with a 5th level slot IS a 5th level spell. This is true for any other spellcasting rule, e.g. if you try to counterspell it, it's only an automatic success if you used a 5th level slot for counterspell.

Thus it is also true for Mystic Arcanum. Create Undead cast with a 7th level slot is a 7th level spell. So a warlock can learn Create Undead cast at 7th level as his 7th level Mystic Arcanum by RAW. It's a 7th level spell that's on his spell list.

And though it's unrelated to a RAW discussion, I would also just like to add that this is not broken. Any wizard could do the same thing only better because they have more 6th+ level slots than a warlock has MAs. At least it's no more broken than a wizard and arguably less so.
I'm sorry but you didn't demonstrate anything, apart the fact you actually missed the reason why the question is asked in the first place. ;)

PHB says about Mystic Arcanum...

At 11th level, your patron bestows upon you a magical secret called an arcanum. Choose one 6th-level spell from the warlock spell list as this arcanum.
You can cast your arcanum spell once without expending a spell slot. You must finish a long rest before you can do so again.

At higher levels, you gain more warlock spells of your choice that can be cast in this way: one 7th-level spell at 13th level, one 8th-level spell at 15th level, and one 9th-level spell at 17th level. You regain all uses of your Mystic Arcanum when you finish a long rest.

The way it is formulated (VERY different from the text of other casters) strongly suggests, to say the least, that you have to learn one new spell that "is" of the required level (meaning, the minimum level at which it can be cast), and you can cast it at this level exactly.

Because "casting a Xth level spell" and "casting a spell using a Xth level slot" are slightly different things.

It is also the general interpretation on this forum from what I could ready in other threads since I first came here.

So, while I would like very much for you to be right, again, please provide any source that would sustain your interpretation because from what I read so far it's a personal houserule and not the general opinion of what RAW/RAI is. ;)

[Farecry]

It's not a 7th level spell on the warlock spell list though

[Dalebert]

So, while I would like very much for you to be right, again, please provide any source that would sustain your interpretation because from what I read so far it's a personal houserule and not the general opinion of what RAW/RAI is. ;)

It's my interpretation, not my house-rule, based on the general rule about the level of a spell in the PHB p. 201 stating...


When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting. For instance, if Umara casts magic missile using one of her 2nd-level slots, that magic missile is 2nd level.

Thus a 7th level Create Undead is a real spell and it's on the warlock spell list. But it's not a hill I want to die on. I did some searching and Crawford disagrees with me also.

[MrStabby]

So there are a couple of things to consider - one is is "is it viable?" the other is "is it fun?"

Single classed warlocks are viable. They have a lot of power in their eldritch blast and their casting stat is useful for a lot of social encounters. They are fine.

Are they fun? Depends on the DM. Sitting there every turn using eldritch blast doesn't really have a lot of variety so in order to get the fun from the class you need to use the other abilities. Frequent short rests so you have spell slots for fun abilities. Lots of social/intrigue style play for mask of many faces and Cha checks will help you have fun.

If you are playing a higher level campaign then the pressure is off a little. From level 11 you get a deeper pool of spells so can feel free to use more per encounter and it is a lot less restrictive.

If you are thinking of a necromancer warlock then you have a similar decision to make. Will having 12 skeletons running around with you add or subtract to your fun at the table. How will you feel when you meet an enemy cleric that destroys all your minions with an action? How much will you slow the game down by? Is it worth it? It is viable sure, maybe less fun if only because you get to make even fewer types of choice in combat.

I love the warlock class, but it can be really dull to play in the wrong campaign. For what it's worth the most fun I have had was with a Feypact Str based bladelock who dumped Ch in favour of being better in melee and just used all those spells that the feypact gives that don't need Cha to function at all.

[NecroDancer]

1. What are some of the better choices for 6th - 9th?
2. How effective is a necrolock, a warlock that use his spell slot to keep his hord up and just using Eldritch blast. For this attacks?
3. What are strategies and combos you can do with a single class Warlock? Sorry I haven't played a warlock.

What do you mean by "necro-lock"?

[Vaz]

It's my interpretation, not my house-rule, based on the general rule about the level of a spell in the PHB p. 201 stating...



Thus a 7th level Create Undead is a real spell and it's on the warlock spell list. But it's not a hill I want to die on. I did some searching and Crawford disagrees with me also.

The funny thing with interpretations is that you can interpret wrongly.

There is no 6th, 7th etc spell slot. Mystic Arcanum doesn't give you a spell slot. You are not a Spellcaster.

[Dalebert]

The funny thing with interpretations is that you can interpret wrongly.

No kidding. The less condescending way of saying that is "I disagree with your interpretation."


There is no 6th, 7th etc spell slot. Mystic Arcanum doesn't give you a spell slot. You are not a Spellcaster.

Yes, but that's not the point. The point is Create Undead cast at 7th level is a 7th level spell. So when it says "pick a 7th level spell that's on the warlock spell list", that should be an option. It's 7th level and it's on the warlock spell list. If you took that as your 13th level Mystic Arcanum, you'd always be casting Create Undead as a 7th level spell.

[djreynolds]

Wow, you went that long without resilient? I guess you're primarily just EBing but not hexing much?

It was my first time with a warlock and I just used EB, all the time.

It was tough as it was my first warlock really ever. Not many guides yet, but the DM loved to drop fireballs my way

[Vaz]

No kidding. The less condescending way of saying that is "I disagree with your interpretation."
Yo are correct. But stil wrong.




Yes, but that's not the point. The point is Create Undead cast at 7th level is a 7th level spell. So when it says "pick a 7th level spell that's on the warlock spell list", that should be an option. It's 7th level and it's on the warlock spell list. If you took that as your 13th level Mystic Arcanum, you'd always be casting Create Undead as a 7th level spell.
No. It is a 7th level spell WHEN CAST OUT OF THE HIGHER LEVEL SPELL SLOT.

It is only that level when it is cast out of that slot. Or else you could argue that a metamagic'd spell is a viable option under similar process. It is only because it is being cast out of a certain spell level that it a higher level.

RAW, you can only have a 7th level spell for Mystc Arcanum at 13th. Look at the spell list. Create Undead, 6th level.

A DM would have to be an ass to prevent you using a higher level, but RAW, you'll be limited to one 6th, one th, and no using irrelevant rules to piggy back.

[Sir cryosin]

What do you mean by "necro-lock"?

I said it playing a warlock but using his spells to create undead minions.

[MrStabby]

I said it playing a warlock but using his spells to create undead minions.

Unless I am missing something you only get create undead - no animate dead on the warlock list for example. Are you getting animate dead? If so from where?

Are you just using the mystic arcanum? If so, what else do you want from every other spell slot/class feature?

[Joe the Rat]

I might be mistaken but I also believe that they get animate dead as a invocation. But it's only wants for a long rest thought.
There's an invocation that lets them cast speak with dead at-will, but not an animate dead one. A 1/long rest animate dead invocation should be fine.

[clash]

If you are open to homebrew this http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?505126-Necromancer-warlock&p=21362242#post21362242 was my take at a necro-lock/lich transformation