Our DM doesn't allow Do'urden characters.

[The Shadowdove]

And I love it.

Incoming rant.

Before reading on know that I have experienced the difference between good and bad, as well as experienced and inexperienced players of Do'urden involved characters or NPCs. Some have been a pleasure to play alongside, most have not.

One of our players at the local GameStore tried making a typical do'urden in post house do'urden timeline. He was denied and pouted around. Which is typical of many tabletop game types, but usually not a problem here.

He may have even been allowed were he to have had a good reason. We were starting nowhere near menzoberranzan, and he wanted to be another surviving relative. No real backstory behind it, simply that they wanted to be a nephew of the infamous drow hero once they found out they couldn't be his brother and the house had fallen apart.

I'm a r.a. Salvatore fan myself. He's awesome enough to clarify any questions I have about the books or d&d setting via messenger in a timely fashion, and I get the impression he's just as prompt and passionate with most of his readers.

Yet, I have seen so many drizzt knockoffs, or characters who specifically have his house in their backstory in an attempt to leech off of the popularity of the name that I've grown tired of anything to do with them in the d&d world when it comes to player made content.

Drizzt is the only surviving do'urden with actual do'urden blood in his veins. Playing a descendant of him is cheesey, but sure whatever floats your boat.

The house that is being restored in menzoberranzan is mostly powerful established members from other top tier houses, alongside members of Bregan D'aerthe. Starting at level one within this structure is nearly unimaginable unless you justify some special snowflake background.

Players who play drow and are stuck on one house are usually just play a drizzt or try to be different by doing an antidrizzt. Many I've seen include him or the family/events surrounding it in their background in hopes of having their alterego included within this sphere. The same players seem to have a tendency to become sour or disheartened if they don't receive special recognition of those events and characters during their sessions/roleplay.

Many are riding on the fanboy house so hard that they can't grasp the fact that there are so many other interesting houses and cities within the forgotten realms underdark.

There are plenty of other drow houses and , personally, it's more fun playing someone from a lesser house or someone that is houseless for many backgrounds. Drow are ambitious.

There's nothing more painful than being born into a chaotic society that is always attempting to climb the ladder, yet being born in a lower status.

Some of the most interesting characters in the drow world of the forgotten realms were houseless drow who had either survived their house's destruction or weren't born into nobility.

Ryld aspired to become a weapons master of melee magthere, knowing he couldn't go further. Imagine the trials to even get that far!

In short, I feel players can be more creative. That they should look beyond drizzts story when considering playing a drow. That they should also consider different backgrounds than typical of drow players. That they should also consider what other cities exist with drow in them, as some are pretty dang interesting!

Discuss, approve, or disapprove if you like. You're all welcome to your own opinions, obviously. This is just how I've come to feel within my tabletop community. A well written game involving these aspects could be very fun to play. However, I very much dislike having to play alongside obvious fanboy characters. Especially when the player controlling them loses interest if they aren't catered to because of their backstory.

Why do you love Do'urden players in your game?

Why do you dislike it?

-Dove

[DracoKnight]

I refuse to run adventures set in the Forgotten Realms specifically to avoid running into Drizzt Clones/Descendants. I find that if people actually want to play a drow for the interesting RP, then they actually make decent characters that fit within the world...If they're just looking for attention, then they're a pain in my @$$. I frequently give characters a chance to shine in the spotlight, but I have to give 4-8 players (depending on the game) a turn in the spotlight. Making a Do'Urden character is a sure way to see them killed quickly.

[Tanarii]

I refuse to run adventures set in the Forgotten Realms specifically to avoid running into Drizzt Clones/Descendants.Its elminster for me. I once made the mistake of letting players choose to go find elminster ... And succeed. Terrible idea. In my defense I was 19 and had lots of terrible ideas at the time, both in and out of game, as did the rest of my group.

[pwykersotz]

I had never even heard of Drizzt before coming to these forums, and I've never encountered a player who either read the books or was a fan in general. I also don't run Forgotten Realms, I run custom worlds, and so do my GM's. Often these necessitate a session 0 where any new players are informed of the local cultures and any spins on them so they can choose their character in a way that fits.

That said, I would probably do as your GM is doing and allow them within reason, but otherwise encourage something that is a bit more unique. I totally agree that even just within Menzoberranzan alone there are a lot of cool houses (yes, I read one of the books to see what the hubub was about, it was okay, I suppose :smalltongue:) other than just the one. I'm sympathetic to the players who want it, geeking out about a fantasy character and then trying to make a clone in game and play it is a pretty common factor for character generation. But if you see them all the time, then yeah, enough is probably enough.

[Lombra]

Wait so if I want to play a neutral good two weapon fighting Drow Ranger you wouldn't allow me to do that? I hope I'm misunderstanding the rant.

[Tanarii]

Wait so if I want to play a neutral good two weapon fighting Drow Ranger you wouldn't allow me to do that? I hope I'm misunderstanding the rant.
Nah it cool as long as everyone in the world tries to kill your PC on sight because you're an evil monster*.

*Not the PC. You, the player, for making a drizzt knockoff.

[Deophaun]

Now I want to make a character who is a Do'urden fan boy. It's just a halfelf in blackface who carries two scimitars but isn't even proficient in them.

[pwykersotz]

Now I want to make a character who is a Do'urden fan boy. It's just a halfelf in blackface who carries two scimitars but isn't even proficient in them.

Okay, this had me actually laugh out loud. Now I feel like a bad person. Well done.

[Sigreid]

Wait so if I want to play a neutral good two weapon fighting Drow Ranger you wouldn't allow me to do that? I hope I'm misunderstanding the rant.

I believe you did misunderstand the rant. I think the OP would be ok with that as long as your background and personality were yours. The gist of the rant seems to be players who want to jack the personality and background of Drizzit (or however it's spelled).

Would be a lot like how I would be annoyed if a player wanted to be a Wizard with the Sage background who was Elminster's apprentice or nephew or something stupid like that. Elminster light if you will.

[Camman1984]

people get too trapped into the 'good' party mindset and end up playing the same redemptive drow.

I have only ever played one drow, he was a warlock with loth as his patron.

his back story was that he was part of one of the drow houses (I don't remember the name now). The main houses had gotten together and decided that the big bad was worse than their traditional enemies, so they sent a representative, me. the more powerful drow didn't want to sully their reputations by lowering themselves to working with the pompous surface dwelling elves, which explained my low level, I wasn't important enough for them to care what I thought, but was trusted enough for them to listen to what I reported.

I was under strict instructions to play nice, but uphold the honour of the house. I was still evil, still hated the other elves but knew I had a job to do. there was a few disagreements in the party, the usual things like perspectives on dealing with surrendered foes, but nothing too serious. The biggest incident that came up was when I was in town and some local do gooders came looking for me to teach me a lesson, I would not dishonour myself by begging for them to leave me alone so they all died and I sent a threatening message back with one of their corpses. I got kicked out of town, only the fact that they started it kept me from further punishment.

I enjoyed playing that character and I think my DM liked throwing in the odd 'ethical dilemma' just to test me with my role playing :)

[Asmotherion]

I don't mind putting well known characters (Like Drizzt or Elminster) in games, but I don't allow them to be included in backstories. I allow trans-media character creation though, such as anime characters and movie characters, as long as there is no direct copy (Either the name or surname have to be different). I once allowed a human Barbarian/Monk multiclass named Haidee Luffy for example (I found the pun hillarious, as well as the fact he named a male character Haidee, due to having a stoner father and no mother, and when anyone laughed at his name, he would use it as an excuse to start a fight).

[DracoKnight]

Now I want to make a character who is a Do'urden fan boy. It's just a halfelf in blackface who carries two scimitars but isn't even proficient in them.


Okay, this had me actually laugh out loud. Now I feel like a bad person. Well done.

Add me to the list of people who should feel bad for laughing. I should feel bad, but I don't.


Its elminster for me. I once made the mistake of letting players choose to go find elminster ... And succeed. Terrible idea. In my defense I was 19 and had lots of terrible ideas at the time, both in and out of game, as did the rest of my group.

I thank the heavens my players don't know who he is outside of Volo's Guide to Monsters.

[Belac93]

I've been lucky in this regard. The people I play with haven't really read the books. There is one who really likes drow (I have no idea why), and they are often dual wielders or sorcerers, but he plays them really unlike Drizzt.

And I don't even think he knows who the point-eared-panther-sue is, so I looked past the time he played a ranger. And we never play in forgotten realms anyway.

But yeah, don't be the Drizzt guy/gal. Make a vaguely original character. Play an orc wizard just trying to get away from his tribe because he one time tried to save a baby/puppy/kitten instead of eating it. That's a fun one.

[JAL_1138]

Its elminster for me. I once made the mistake of letting players choose to go find elminster ... And succeed. Terrible idea. In my defense I was 19 and had lots of terrible ideas at the time, both in and out of game, as did the rest of my group.

I'd normally say any appearance by a well-known Übermage is a horrible idea, but the appearance of Mordenkainen in Dice Camera Action was such a hilarious hurricane of old-school AD&D dungeon-crawling references it worked really well (Sam Witwer's performance helping considerably as well). He was pretty much a grumpy old half-crazy grognard, aghast that none of these dagnabbed whippersnappers had brought 10ft poles. Then again, Mordenkainen never quite reached the Marty Stu levels that Elminster did...

[Gryndle]

I have no problem with players taking inspiration from fictional characters to make their PCs. I pretty much nix any direct rip-off of a character in any serious game I run.

as someone said above, I have much less issue with Drizzt inspired characters than Elsphincter the god-mage.

What I really find distasteful is the strength of the over reaction hinted above. Just because a DM or player didn't find anything of value in a particular work of fiction doesn't mean everyone feels the same way.

I've experienced DMs that banned drow because of the Drizzt books. No real campaign reason. Just Drizzt hate. Never mind the fact that Drow have been a PLAYER race since 1st edition AD&D Unearthed Arcana which specifically called out them being capable of becoming cavaliers and rangers.

Too me the kneejerk reaction to these concepts is just as bad, perhaps worse, than the cheesy character-clone concepts.

[Addaran]

At first, i though a Do'urden character was a character from an always evil race that is good, thus being the one super exception.


Now I want to make a character who is a Do'urden fan boy. It's just a halfelf in blackface who carries two scimitars but isn't even proficient in them.

Best idea for a character in the realms ever!

[Sigreid]

I'd normally say any appearance by a well-known Übermage is a horrible idea, but the appearance of Mordenkainen in Dice Camera Action was such a hilarious hurricane of old-school AD&D dungeon-crawling references it worked really well (Sam Witwer's performance helping considerably as well). He was pretty much a grumpy old half-crazy grognard, aghast that none of these dagnabbed whippersnappers had brought 10ft poles. Then again, Mordenkainen never quite reached the Marty Stu levels that Elminster did...

There were a few modules where Zagyag the Mad showed. That was always entertaining because "the Mad" was a very apt description.

[ad_hoc]

I've thankfully never seen this either.

No one I play with likes drow. I've only ever seen one tiefling too.

At first I wasn't happy about their inclusion in 5e, but then if no one plays them it is like they don't exist so it doesn't really matter.

[War_lord]

I've experienced DMs that banned drow because of the Drizzt books. No real campaign reason. Just Drizzt hate. Never mind the fact that Drow have been a PLAYER race since 1st edition AD&D Unearthed Arcana which specifically called out them being capable of becoming cavaliers and rangers.

The Player's Guide specifically says that Drow Adventurers are rare and that the DM has the final say on allowing them in his/her game. I wouldn't let someone play a Drow in my game unless I was confident that the player could actually do it justice. Playing a character who comes from a society with values drastically different from those on the surface isn't something just anyone can do.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Do'Urden characters specifically? Haven't had problems with them, specifically. Uninspired 'redeemed' Drow A-BE? Ya, those get tiresome. While I don't ban them per sae, I have little patience for uninspired characters. My group has cultivated itself to exclude players who are undesirable in one fashion or another. The players who played those Uninspired 'Redeemed' Drow? Gone. Don't get me wrong, that wasn't those player's only fault. But it contributed to the group decision to exclude them from future games.

[Arkhios]

I don't particularly hate Drizzt Do'urden, because it was those books that got me really interested in D&D, though I see no point in making exact copies based on him. I see nothing wrong with playing a character that's somehow similar to him, but I generally draw the line to "drow+two scimitars+ranger+panther" because that's just too obvious. However, there's nothing sub-standard about a [race] and two weapons, because that's pretty common in any (D&D) culture. Of course, the other way to replicate him is to play that anti-racial-stereotype character, but those happen all the time, in all settings. I don't see how that's going to ruin it for other players.

One thing in particular regarding Drizzt Do'Urden (and other popular culture heroes/heroines) copies is the naming of such characters. I see absolutely red when someone just uses apostrophes and special characters to make the character's name seem different while in essence they're not.

If I did run a game in Forgotten Realms (which I probably won't, because I respect the setting too much to make it worse with my stupid adventure ideas :smalltongue:) I'd definitely try to avoid meeting with Heroes of the Mithral Hall. There are other equally heroic adventurers out there, outside the books that have been written. It's just stupid cliché to use those same characters over and over and over again.

[Finback]

Drizzt is the only surviving do'urden with actual do'urden blood in his veins. Playing a descendant of him is cheesey, but sure whatever floats your boat.


At the end, his dad comes back. And I may be misremembering, but it implies kids.

[Regitnui]

I'm no expert on drow, but wouldn't it make more sense for a drow to be proud of their female lineage? It wouldn't matter if their father was a do'urden, but that their mother was a (made up name) Lystris. Drizz't kids would have their mother's name, not his.

[cZak]

Now I want to make a character who is a Do'urden fan boy. It's just a halfelf in blackface who carries two scimitars but isn't even proficient in them.

Awesome
Got a good chuckle out of my naturally, contrarian nature

[Unoriginal]

I'm confused. Is the issue to play specifically someone from this family, or just a Drizzt knock-off?

[Arkhios]

I'm confused. Is the issue to play specifically someone from this family, or just a Drizzt knock-off?

I think both would apply. I have no problems with the first, myself.

[Frogosaurus]

I specified in my campaign setting notes to my players before we started that drow do not exist in my campaign world. Precisely because of Drizzt. (Admittedly, my players turned out to be mostly significantly younger than my dinosaur-aged self, so they weren't really Drizzt fanbeings anyway).

I didn't want a knock-off of the first adventuring party in goblinscomic, which consisted of a dwarf cleric, an overpowered human fighter, and three drizzt wannabes.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I don't run Forgotten Realms, but my players found a dead Do'urden once. Got to loot some sweet (cursed) gear off him.

When one of my player's Dad overheard he started laughing like a demon. Dude was an OD&D vet, and he apparently recognized the reference even if I never used the name.

[Gryndle]

I would rather see a DM say "No Drizzle clones! and anyone wanting to play drow (or tiefling/half-orc/kender/kobold/whatever monstrous race is the flavor of the day) will have to understand that the civilized world thinks of them as monsters, so be prepared to defend and prove yourself at pretty much every turn."

I'm not trying to take shots at anyone, or even really defending drow in particular. I just have an adverse reaction to any ruling that comes across as arbitrary and absolute. I would rather see a conversation between DM and player about expectations and what will or won't be tolerated than a flat out ban.

But then, I have had just as much, possibly more, bad luck with DMs that invoked Rule O for arbitrary reasons (effectively "Because I say so" or "Because I can") than with players wanting to bring a cheesy clone character into the game. This is off topic, and maybe something worth starting a different discussion over, but now that I think about it I personally have experienced more game-killing/"disruptive" DMs than disruptive players.

[Mjolnirbear]

I introduced a co-worker to D&D. The very first character he made was a drow ranger with a panther. He hadn't even *heard* of Drizz't and I still wanted to strangle him.

I understand the urge to play such a character. He's awesome! I enjoyed reading about him. There are many characters I've enjoyed reading about, and I admit to drawing inspiration for some of my own characters.

But goddamn it, it's a game of make-believe. Make something up!

I would rather have a character named Bob with no backstory and no traits or personality than a Drizz't clone. You can make the background up as you go along.

Don't copy your character from someone else's work.

1) This is the opportunity to be original. BE ORIGINAL.
2) A copied character imposes expectations on the game, like that you have a famous Do'Urden name that you can throw around and expect to be recognized. Or that you're all-powerful Elminster and should be able to do things because 'that's what they do in the books'.
3) A copied character limits your imagination. You don't try to think outside the box. You don't try to forge your own path, you try to tread steps already written.
4) A copied character imposes limits on your party. It implies you're a special snowflake and your character is more important than the other ones.

Seriously. Name him Bob, switch classes, invent the background as you go along if you have problems coming up with ideas. The ideas will come as you play.

[Knaight]

I'll be the first to admit that my RPG experience is ludicrously non-representative, but isn't this pretty much the default? I was under the impression that most GMs ran their own setting, and while the prevalence of D&D as a system tends to make them similar in a lot of ways things like a particular family in a particular city is a bit more overlap than is imposed by the system. It's obvious that FR and the like do have players, given that the game books sell and that writing staggeringly bad fantasy fiction is apparently a cash cow if you appeal to the nostalgia of D&D nerds by setting it in FR, but this whole thing comes across as praising a GM for not being part of a relatively small edge case group.

[Hawkstar]

Why are people still afraid of the "Drizz't Knockoff" bogeyman three decades after everyone forgot who the original character was?

I've never met a drow player who was worse than the Drizz't haters.

[Tanarii]

Why are people still afraid of the "Drizz't Knockoff" bogeyman three decades after everyone forgot who the original character was?
I see some variation knock-off several times a year in official play. It's not even close to forgotten. Most common are the 'redeemed drow' knock-offs, which is understandable. But straight up dual-wielding Drow are fairly regular too. (Not always Rangers.)

It's most commonly new players of course. Same with Gimli dwarves, Legolas Elves, Tasslehoff halflings, etc. And probably far more character knock-offs from anime than I'm aware of, since I'm not really into that. :smallyuk:

Edit: I'm actually a fan of stereotypical tropes for races. I just don't like the Drizz't one because he's a mary sue from badly written books, and because he's an anti-drow trope. I like drow as they are because they're already the anti-elf trope as is. Although I full admit that 'not-a-hat from race-of-hats' is a trope. I forget the name for it though.

[The Shadowdove]

(snip)
I didn't want a knock-off of the first adventuring party in goblinscomic, which consisted of a dwarf cleric, an overpowered human fighter, and three drizzt wannabes.
http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s603/micridley/20050711_zpsqbocpqi5.jpg~original (http://s1308.photobucket.com/user/micridley/media/20050711_zpsqbocpqi5.jpg.html)

[Inchoroi]

I have Drizzt in my campaign!

It's not FR, but Drizzt--at least, my version--is an outcaste drow...save that he was exiled because he was too evil.

[Sariel Vailo]

And I love it.

Incoming rant.

Before reading on know that I have experienced the difference between good and bad, as well as experienced and inexperienced players of Do'urden involved characters or NPCs. Some have been a pleasure to play alongside, most have not.

One of our players at the local GameStore tried making a typical do'urden in post house do'urden timeline. He was denied and pouted around. Which is typical of many tabletop game types, but usually not a problem here.

He may have even been allowed were he to have had a good reason. We were starting nowhere near menzoberranzan, and he wanted to be another surviving relative. No real backstory behind it, simply that they wanted to be a nephew of the infamous drow hero once they found out they couldn't be his brother and the house had fallen apart.

I'm a r.a. Salvatore fan myself. He's awesome enough to clarify any questions I have about the books or d&d setting via messenger in a timely fashion, and I get the impression he's just as prompt and passionate with most of his readers.

Yet, I have seen so many drizzt knockoffs, or characters who specifically have his house in their backstory in an attempt to leech off of the popularity of the name that I've grown tired of anything to do with them in the d&d world when it comes to player made content.

Drizzt is the only surviving do'urden with actual do'urden blood in his veins. Playing a descendant of him is cheesey, but sure whatever floats your boat.

The house that is being restored in menzoberranzan is mostly powerful established members from other top tier houses, alongside members of Bregan D'aerthe. Starting at level one within this structure is nearly unimaginable unless you justify some special snowflake background.

Players who play drow and are stuck on one house are usually just play a drizzt or try to be different by doing an antidrizzt. Many I've seen include him or the family/events surrounding it in their background in hopes of having their alterego included within this sphere. The same players seem to have a tendency to become sour or disheartened if they don't receive special recognition of those events and characters during their sessions/roleplay.

Many are riding on the fanboy house so hard that they can't grasp the fact that there are so many other interesting houses and cities within the forgotten realms underdark.

There are plenty of other drow houses and , personally, it's more fun playing someone from a lesser house or someone that is houseless for many backgrounds. Drow are ambitious.

There's nothing more painful than being born into a chaotic society that is always attempting to climb the ladder, yet being born in a lower status.

Some of the most interesting characters in the drow world of the forgotten realms were houseless drow who had either survived their house's destruction or weren't born into nobility.

Ryld aspired to become a weapons master of melee magthere, knowing he couldn't go further. Imagine the trials to even get that far!

In short, I feel players can be more creative. That they should look beyond drizzts story when considering playing a drow. That they should also consider different backgrounds than typical of drow players. That they should also consider what other cities exist with drow in them, as some are pretty dang interesting!

Discuss, approve, or disapprove if you like. You're all welcome to your own opinions, obviously. This is just how I've come to feel within my tabletop community. A well written game involving these aspects could be very fun to play. However, I very much dislike having to play alongside obvious fanboy characters. Especially when the player controlling them loses interest if they aren't catered to because of their backstory.

Why do you love Do'urden players in your game?

Why do you dislike it?

-Dove
i am a drow heroine but i asked if i could make myself a noble drow house and rebel i wanted to be the opposite.no relative of dro urden but inspired by him.ive been a fighter, a paladin, a wizard, a bard. but all rebelling from my family.thus my dm during the underdark campaign. or its actual name. handled the intro difrently the male drow leered laughed and chose the more dangerous jobs for me. now that i wasnt a noble any longer i choked one to death with the chains on my wrists and threw him to the spiders.or im just a surface drow a drow who was raised by drow parents on the surface.and im a bard i litterally steal and drink and play music im either a hero or a bitch.

[Deophaun]

i am a drow heroine but i asked if i could make myself a noble drow house and rebel i wanted to be the opposite.no relative of dro urden but inspired by him.ive been a fighter, a paladin, a wizard, a bard. but all rebelling from my family.
New head canon: Drow society is just a conspiracy to prevent their teenagers from becoming criminals by convincing them that heroism is rebellious.

[Sariel Vailo]

New head canon: Drow society is just a conspiracy to prevent their teenagers from becoming criminals by convincing them that heroism is rebellious.

i bet it is my friend i bet it is........do do doooot and lolth is really just playing the biggest prank ever. you arent evil at all just dark skinned

[Tanarii]

New head canon: Drow society is just a conspiracy to prevent their teenagers from becoming criminals by convincing them that heroism is rebellious.
I prefer the Dungeonomics take. It's all a ruse to keep the surface dwellers away from the real dark elf cities.
http://www.critical-hits.com/blog/2015/07/07/inside-the-deep-elf-marketing-department/

[Spore]

I want to avoid Drow society - and similar CE societies of races with low reproduction rates - because it is simply unrealistic for a race to be that genocidal and simultaneously be that dangerous for everyone involved. If your generation is 20 years (like orcs), 10 years (like goblins) or 30 years (like humans) you can afford these types of shenanigans, and undiscriminated murder is what keeps or kept Orcs from gettting successful in the Realms.

You can't insert the same moral compass (if more subtle because being discovered means your family gets eradicated) to a (sub)race that need 110 years do be considered adult. It gets even worse when high level casters are the reason why you are so feared and at the same time need up to several centuries to get fully trained and attuned to their goddess.

[Tanarii]

You can't insert the same moral compass (if more subtle because being discovered means your family gets eradicated) to a (sub)race that need 110 years do be considered adult. It gets even worse when high level casters are the reason why you are so feared and at the same time need up to several centuries to get fully trained and attuned to their goddess.
Remember, Elves in 5e are fully grown at 20. So by the time they are socially considered "adult", that means they're around or about the equivalent of a 29 y.o. human physically. (Based on 750 lifespan to 100 lifespan, or 730/80 aging ratio after 20.) In other words, there's no reason physically they can't reproduce at the same rate as humans, in a 20 year generational cycle.

Of course, that's 5e Elves, not old edition elves or Salvatore elves.

[NecroDancer]

Making your character based off another fictional D&D character is the most stupid/lazy thing ever!

(Slowly puts Brimstone Angels into bag with Teifling warlock character sheet).

[Ninja-Radish]

I don't like Drizzt either, I think he's a terrible character, just like Elminster and everyone else from the Forgotten Realms.

I also have no issue with a DM banning Drizzt clones, as long as he's up front about it. However, I would have to ask what qualifies as a clone? Is it limited to dual wielding drow rangers? Or does it include any drow? Any dual wielder? Any ranger? Anyone with any amount of drow blood? As a player, I personally would demand clarity on what is being banned.

[thorr-kan]

Never mind the fact that Drow have been a PLAYER race since 1st edition AD&D Unearthed Arcana which specifically called out them being capable of becoming cavaliers ...
Dark elf cavalier...?

A whole new Black Knight...

Thank you. I know have a new method of giving the 1st ED DM in my group ulcers! I appreciate it!

[Finback]

Dark elf cavalier...?

A whole new Black Knight...

I tried getting a few drow cavaliers on the table, but my DM disapproved.

She looked me in the eye, screwed up my character sheet, and said.. "None shall pass".

[Malifice]

No Drow? Awww. OK DM... my PC is an honorable but evil human assasin who dual weilds and prefers to take on his targets in one on one combat. His name is Martimus Dentredi. What.. no to that also?

Hmmm OK. My PC is a frail red robed Wizard, who after the test of magic administered by his Mage college was left with golden skin and hour...

*Player ducks thrown book*

[Sigreid]

I don't like Drizzt either, I think he's a terrible character, just like Elminster and everyone else from the Forgotten Realms.

I also have no issue with a DM banning Drizzt clones, as long as he's up front about it. However, I would have to ask what qualifies as a clone? Is it limited to dual wielding drow rangers? Or does it include any drow? Any dual wielder? Any ranger? Anyone with any amount of drow blood? As a player, I personally would demand clarity on what is being banned.

Personally, I would only have a problem with what is described in the rant being the part where he wrote Drizzt into his background/family tree. Want to be a dual wielding, drow, emo-ranger? Your character dude. Want a panther pet? Better make a beastmaster/beast conclave ranger.

[Malifice]

Personally, I would only have a problem with what is described in the rant being the part where he wrote Drizzt into his background/family tree. Want to be a dual wielding, drow, emo-ranger? Your character dude. Want a panther pet? Better make a beastmaster/beast conclave ranger.

That's actually the bit I don't have a problem with.

Creating a carbon copy of another fictional character so obviously is the bit that annoys me.

[mephnick]

I just don't allow Drow in most campaigns because I don't allow for good Drow and I don't run evil campaigns. So that's pretty simple. They're also still relatively unknown and mysterious in my world so having one in an adventuring party would be pretty improbable. I'd probably have to run a Drow campaign where everyone is a Drow if people wanted to play them.

[Unoriginal]

I want to avoid Drow society - and similar CE societies of races with low reproduction rates - because it is simply unrealistic for a race to be that genocidal and simultaneously be that dangerous for everyone involved. If your generation is 20 years (like orcs), 10 years (like goblins) or 30 years (like humans) you can afford these types of shenanigans, and undiscriminated murder is what keeps or kept Orcs from gettting successful in the Realms.

You can't insert the same moral compass (if more subtle because being discovered means your family gets eradicated) to a (sub)race that need 110 years do be considered adult. It gets even worse when high level casters are the reason why you are so feared and at the same time need up to several centuries to get fully trained and attuned to their goddess.

Drows are CE, but it doesn't mean they're prone to willy-nilly mass murder each others. A Drow killing another Drow is more likely to be a month-long or even years-long enterprise including plans, counter-plans, ressource gathering, making sure the other Drow's allies won't make your life hell in retaliation, making sure YOUR allies won't make your life hell in retaliation, making the assassination impressive enough you won't look weak, making sure you won't lose too much in the attempt, paying extensive care your murder won't interfer into someone else's scheme, etc. than just an orc bashing another orc's head with an axe because it's funny.

CE doesn't mean being short-sighted, impulsive, or unable to pull off a scheme. Drow society function by having bigger bullies force the smaller bullies to cooperate, and a drow killing another drow impulsively is likely to discover they just pissed off one or more of the big wigs, and potentially including the one who are currently dominating them.

[Tanarii]

I'd probably have to run a Drow campaign where everyone is a Drow if people wanted to play them.That's usually a hell of a lot of fun, as long as players enter the game with the mindset that they sure as hell can't trust the other players. And they know how to play intelligent & conniving characters, as opposed to (for example) just playing stupid chaotic and/or evil.

[Specter]

There has only been one drow in the tables I've run. I always tell players that if they play Drow they will be facing a lot of social aggressiveness, and will have nothing to do with Drizz't himself (the ultimate Mary Sue). The guy that did play a drow used the Urchin background to play as a slave who took exile on the poorest parts of town, and after a lot of work managed to be hired at a thieves' guild. Yep, years of effort to become a thief.

[NecessaryWeevil]

I play character concepts that excite me. I expect others to play concepts that excite them (and thus not necessarily me). I'd rather play alongside a derivative character that someone was passionate about and thus invested in RPing, rather than Human Fighter #213, who is so bland that he can't possibly offend anyone.

Also, am I alone in finding the Drizz't books (at least the first one, which was as far as I got) kind of klunky and uninteresting?

[Arkhios]

it's just Drizzt, not Drizz't or something like that.

[No brains]

I think the most constructive way to foil someone trying to have fun by playing Drizzt would be to lay out so many options that they change their mind. Let them start as their clone and have fun as them for a little while, but then add in things that will make them gravitate away from their cliched choice if it really grates on you.

Why fight with scimitars? We've got magic short swords that are almost the same.

Why go for a panther when a different animal's tactics work better with your style?

A dip in a spellcasting class can really improve your stealth and tracking! Put that charisma bonus to use!

The process of *becoming* creative can take a long time. It's not useful to rush someone into being 'original'. Don't slam doors, leave windows open. Use the evil power of optimization to snuff the sparkles from young, innocent eyes! Let the player decide that they might have more fun doing something new.

Also, if someone wants to play an 'heir of Drizzt' and their character has deception, disguises, and a different alignment, they might be more fun than you realize.

[Sigreid]

That's actually the bit I don't have a problem with.

Creating a carbon copy of another fictional character so obviously is the bit that annoys me.

What ever they think is going to be fun for them is fine with me. I just want them free and clear and not tied to a tone of baggage created by some outside third party.

[Squiddish]

I have solved this problem the opposite way. My campaign is a near-future sci-fantasty. Drow experienced a cultural revolution in the early 1800s. They are no longer a chaotic evil society, just a very weird one.

[Tanarii]

Also, am I alone in finding the Drizz't books (at least the first one, which was as far as I got) kind of klunky and uninteresting?they started off very poorly written. But that wasn't unusual for D&D books at the time. The technical quality of the writing got better in the later novels. Not good enough to make the character or storyline interesting to me personally ... but good enough my normal complaint of his horrible writing isn't really justified in the later books. I'm prejudiced because of how terrible the first books were and my dislike of the character.

[Finback]

they started off very poorly written. But that wasn't unusual for D&D books at the time. The technical quality of the writing got better in the later novels. Not good enough to make the character or storyline interesting to me personally ... but good enough my normal complaint of his horrible writing isn't really justified in the later books. I'm prejudiced because of how terrible the first books were and my dislike of the character.

I have mostly read the later ones and I think once he created a decent stable of supporting characters, the stories improved dramatically. It's the stuff happening outside of Drizzt I find often provides the most drama or interest. The Hunter's Blades trilogy to me really worked well because it split the party, and then comes a bunch of separate tales of survival in a warzone. You've got Drizzt doing his lone ranger stuff, the dwarves trying to formulate a defense system (while their king lies dying), a gnome engineer with ideas, neighbouring lands debating whether to enter the war, and Obould, the orc king, trying to carve out a nation for his people while dealing with internal insurrection and rebellion. Oh, and Jarlaxle playing his usual games with everyone.

[Malifice]

What ever they think is going to be fun for them is fine with me. I just want them free and clear and not tied to a tone of baggage created by some outside third party.

Im happy with them tying themselves to the canon (even if it requires a little twisting).

I just hate seeing obvious rip offs of other characters.

If you want to be Drizzts cousin, fine. Be a wizard or something. With a wholly different personality to boot.

[Sigreid]

Im happy with them tying themselves to the canon (even if it requires a little twisting).

I just hate seeing obvious rip offs of other characters.

If you want to be Drizzts cousin, fine. Be a wizard or something. With a wholly different personality to boot.

Well, I have an active dislike of FR cannon as well.

[Regitnui]

Drows are CE, but it doesn't mean they're prone to willy-nilly mass murder each others.

The old 3.5 drow book specifically calls them out on being CE in a LE society, which shakes out as NE.