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8BitNinja
2017-02-12, 02:02 PM
So just to start off, in case you don't know what cross playing is in RPGs, it's when a guy plays as a girl and vice versa.

I have no problem with this, but I've personally never saw what was so fun about it. I always play as a male character, and so does most of my group. In fact, the only female character I've played with was when a girl played as one. However, on this forum, especially in the FFRP section, a lot of people seem to really like cross playing.

So what makes cross playing so fun for you guys?

Deathkeeper
2017-02-12, 02:06 PM
People have things they like for their PCs. Some people prefer female PC's. Some people prefer PC's of a specific race or species. Some people like RPing wizards with complex magic rules or mercs with a very specific, detailed arsenal straight out of John Wick. There's no specific reason for it beyond why anyone wants to RP anything else.

Anonymouswizard
2017-02-12, 02:14 PM
I'm partially ambivalent about it, to me it's a case of 'which gender do I think fits the character better'. I have a necromancer I want to play who ran away from her family to avoid an arranged marriage, and the character has to be female in order for the backstory to work (the family is heavily misogynistic), but if either gender works I'll default to male. I've got another tucked away who doesn't have to be female for the concept to work, but I feel works better as a woman.

Part of this is because I personally don't consider gender important, so I'm comfortable playing someone with a vagina. I mean, I'm sure my characters don't act particularly believably, but that's the same as my male characters and I simply don't crossplay in groups that don't like it.

One of my friends has suggested that I roleplay female characters as 'men with boobs', but honestly I've never got complaints about it from women who have seen me crossplay, so I'll continue to do it until I do get complaints.

Millstone85
2017-02-12, 02:52 PM
There is a danger. No real life elf will complain about your portrayal. But play a different gender or ethnicity and you might offend someone.

Now, I am playing a warlock who is the "dark magical girl" type, hence female, and the real life woman at our table has only offered positive critique. She has also played a man, though the character turned out to be a changeling who wouldn't share their actual gender if any.

Malimar
2017-02-12, 02:54 PM
Variety.

I find it boring to play a character who's too similar to a previous character, and gender is one of many axes with which one can fiddle to make variegated characters.

Also, as Anonymouswizard says, some (back)stories just work better with a female (or whatever) character.

SilverLeaf167
2017-02-12, 03:15 PM
Whether I'm designing the character for an RPG or some other kind of story, a lot of the time I don't start off with a set gender and it just sort of emerges along the way (and even if I do, it may very well change at some point). In roleplaying games, since the character is more explicitly an extension of myself, they almost always end up male, and it's definitely the standard assumption; however, the few times that I've ended up playing a woman (or when I do it as a DM), it really hasn't felt that different. It's been just one part of the whole, along with their build, personality, backstory and all those other things. If anything, it's mostly affected my mental picture of their physical appearance, while the change in roleplay has been more subtle or even nonexistent.

To be honest, I'm probably approaching this question from a writing perspective first and foremost, since I get so few opportunities to actually play a PC. :smalltongue:

The group I'm currently playing in (as a male PC, though now I'm kinda intrigued by the image of him as a woman) actually has a very well-executed cross-play character; their gender is somehow simultaneously clear and apparent yet subtle and unimportant, because it really is secondary to a lot of other things. There's no clear-cut line between any "feminine" traits and the rest of their personality.

As for why someone would prefer cross-play specifically, well, the other answers here can probably address that.

Darth Ultron
2017-02-12, 03:30 PM
So what makes cross playing so fun for you guys?

Well, of course, male and female characters are exactly the same in every way so it does not matter. And if you can role play being an elf or intelligent ooze or warforged or whatever, then male or female is not so far.

Some people do like some things, but you will need to google that....

And in the game, you can't get away from ''how people are''. For example, a lot of male gamers will be nice to a female character ''for no reason''. Even if that female character steals from them they will just be like ''sucks''. And many female gamers are nice to ''romantic'' male characters. Male player/characters feel they must help women in trouble, but they will kill any male in the blink of an eye. Female players/characters often ''dislike'' other female characters for...''reasons''. And so on....

Max_Killjoy
2017-02-12, 03:42 PM
I'm partially ambivalent about it, to me it's a case of 'which gender do I think fits the character better'. I have a necromancer I want to play who ran away from her family to avoid an arranged marriage, and the character has to be female in order for the backstory to work (the family is heavily misogynistic), but if either gender works I'll default to male. I've got another tucked away who doesn't have to be female for the concept to work, but I feel works better as a woman.

Part of this is because I personally don't consider gender important, so I'm comfortable playing someone with a vagina. I mean, I'm sure my characters don't act particularly believably, but that's the same as my male characters and I simply don't crossplay in groups that don't like it.

One of my friends has suggested that I roleplay female characters as 'men with boobs', but honestly I've never got complaints about it from women who have seen me crossplay, so I'll continue to do it until I do get complaints.

Probably tells you more about their preconceptions of "what a woman is like" than about your RP or your character.

Segev
2017-02-12, 03:50 PM
Cross playing can be somebody's preference, or something they prefer not to do, but generally, I think most cross-playing occurs because the character the player came up with happens to be that sex.

Personally, I deliberately avoid cross-playing when I am going to be speaking for my character with my own, real-world voice. It's hard for ME to stay immersed if my female character's words come out in my baritone. And I play more males than females anyway, because I'll default to my own sex if it's irrelevant.

The one female character I remember most quickly was definitely a girl, because she exploited social norms (and the boundaries it was acceptable for her sex to push) to make her personality work. That, and I somehow managed to make the only non-introverted-terrified-of-any-social-interaction-at-all nerd PC in the entire group, which was amusing. That had nothing to do with her being a girl, though. How she acted on it was, though; she exploited the heck out of her ability to be forward and then use social expectation to make the guys she was forward at feel like they were the ones who were being uncool if they didn't respond how she wanted. (She wasn't mean, but she wasn't exactly all sweetness and light, either.)

A male version of her would probably have worked, but played quite differently to achieve comparable ends.

BWR
2017-02-12, 03:58 PM
I roleplay to play different characters. Gender and sex is part of characters, and always playing the same thing is boring.

Faily
2017-02-12, 04:06 PM
I like to tell different stories, and sometimes, the story changes depending on the gender and sex of the character in question.

I admit I have mostly played females, but I have played males from time to time, and most times the story they tell is different than what it would've been like if the character was female. Especially if the game takes place in a society with strict gender-norms and roles.

Fable Wright
2017-02-12, 04:21 PM
As stated, it's usually just a way to get inside a different character type's head, to bring variety to the playing table.

There are also times when gender can drastically change what a character can do—for example, if I try to make a Cosplay-mancer for Unknown Armies, male or female is going to play a huge difference in my characters' abilities. One can tap the skills and abilities of Roy Mustang, Emiya Shirou and the male Fate/X cast, and most Shounen protagonists. The other can channel Elsa, Korra, Homura, Erza Scarlet, Lina Inverse, and more.

That said, I'll usually avoid crossplaying in real life, because of the general awkwardness, though it can occasionally be nice to bring gender balance to an in-character group, or if it fits the concept. Things are a lot freer on the internet, however, which may explain why it seems like more people crossplay here—it allows them a chance to work with character concepts that might be ruined at the table by a deep voice or the fatigue of keeping up an act all night, but have been knocking around in your head for a while.

Anonymouswizard
2017-02-12, 04:33 PM
Probably tells you more about their preconceptions of "what a woman is like" than about your RP or your character.

Eh, I try to be open minded about people's beliefs, and she's generally an awesome person (and cross-played effectively, although that character's race was emphasised more). I simply don't play female characters in that group because I don't see a need to cause potential antagonism, although given the fact someone else crossplaying was a nonissue I don't it would be a problem.

EDIT: please, are you telling me a cosplaymancer can't crossplay? I am shocked.

Max_Killjoy
2017-02-12, 04:44 PM
Eh, I try to be open minded about people's beliefs, and she's generally an awesome person (and cross-played effectively, although that character's race was emphasised more). I simply don't play female characters in that group because I don't see a need to cause potential antagonism, although given the fact someone else crossplaying was a nonissue I don't it would be a problem.

EDIT: please, are you telling me a cosplaymancer can't crossplay? I am shocked.

I meant that if someone is telling you that you're playing "men with boobs" when you play female characters, then they have a constrained sense of what a female character "should" be like.

(That's why I bolded that part of the quote.)


The first rule of writing or RPing a crossgender character well, is to write or RP the character, not a gender.

Fey
2017-02-12, 04:46 PM
I'm transgender.

Playing female characters in D&D is a way to be my real self, as a girl. I don't care if the people across the table see a guy sitting there. Roleplaying is a great outlet when you can't share that side of yourself in public.

Anonymouswizard
2017-02-12, 05:00 PM
I meant that if someone is telling you that you're playing "men with boobs" when you play female characters, then they have a constrained sense of what a female character "should" be like.

(That's why I bolded that part of the quote.)


The first rule of writing or RPing a crossgender character well, is to write or RP the character, not a gender.

Oh, I agree, I just don't want to cause unnecessary friction in the group, especially as I otherwise get along fine with her. I suspect it just comes from different ideas on how to roleplay, I'm personally fine with keeping my female characters for another group, although I may play one in this group if we ever have another game and if I feel like it fits the concept better.

Really, it's because we have different views on gender coming from different experiences. I find it to be a footnote at best, she think's it's more important. I leave it at that, and don't try to justify how I play female characters because honestly, I'm already thinking 'what does this character do' when deciding actions.

FWIW the 'men with boobs' quote was a response to me saying I play female characters the same way I play male characters, I intended this to be taken as 'I don't consider gender a particularly defining characteristic'.

I think I might tend towards female characters more, but that's because I tend to have more ideas I think would be more fun as female characters.

8BitNinja
2017-02-12, 05:03 PM
There is a danger. No real life elf will complain about your portrayal. But play a different gender or ethnicity and you might offend someone.

Where are these real life elves? I've seen real gnomes, but never elves

Oh, and this one guy says that fairies are real

Absol197
2017-02-12, 05:05 PM
I'm transgender.

Playing female characters in D&D is a way to be my real self, as a girl. I don't care if the people across the table see a guy sitting there. Roleplaying is a great outlet when you can't share that side of yourself in public.

All the this. I'm a trans woman too, and "cross" playing was one of the first steps towards figuring that out for myself. I started playing mostly men, because I was a "guy." And then I played a woman character, and it fit so much better, and I didn't know why.

So then I made a rule for myself - I would alternate every character I made between being man and a woman, to "keep it even." But then I realized I was resenting all the male characters I played, because they were really just getting in the way of the characters I wanted to play.

And eventually, along with all the other things going on in my life, I finally was able to realize why that was the case. If I hadn't had that chance, if DMs and GMs had told me I couldn't "cross-play" because it was weird, I would be in horrible shape today.

For some people it's trying out new things. For others it's telling different stories. For some of us, it can save our lives. Literally. So please, don't knock it.

Red Fel
2017-02-12, 05:12 PM
I'm partially ambivalent about it, to me it's a case of 'which gender do I think fits the character better'.


Whether I'm designing the character for an RPG or some other kind of story, a lot of the time I don't start off with a set gender and it just sort of emerges along the way (and even if I do, it may very well change at some point).


Cross playing can be somebody's preference, or something they prefer not to do, but generally, I think most cross-playing occurs because the character the player came up with happens to be that sex.

These. I have characters who end up female, and characters who end up male; it's less about how I designed the character (although sometimes I will exercise an override if circumstances merit it) and more how the character develops organically from concept, to crunch and fluff, to person.

Heck, I do this in real life; I anthropomorphize my car as female (I think a lot of people do), but "her" name is a male one, because it fits. If I refer to my car as "her," people seem comfortable with it; if I refer to my car by name, people chuckle, but acknowledge it as a fitting name. If I say "her" and the name, people kind of eye me oddly, which says more about people than it does about my wonderful car. I don't judge her, and neither should you, is what I'm saying.

The Vanishing Hitchhiker
2017-02-12, 05:14 PM
It's not so much appeal, just lack of...nonappeal? There are some video games where my choice of character is affected by aesthetics or plot, but when the only limit is imagination, it's nice to have a variety of options.

PersonMan
2017-02-12, 05:29 PM
So what makes cross playing so fun for you guys?

For me, there isn't a specific appeal to it. In fact, it doesn't come into consideration at all - generally, my character concepts have their entire aesthetic from the moment I first 'find' them, which means that their sex and so on are already set. There's no "I'm going to play a lady knight this time", it's just "I have an idea for a lady knight".

It may help that I tend to play characters who are a few steps removed from reality; larger-than-life figures devoted to their personal ideology who seek out the most dangerous things they can find for the challenge of overcoming them are generally defined by their ideology more than anything else.

Piedmon_Sama
2017-02-12, 06:07 PM
The appeal is I get to draw pictures of my perfect orc waifu DEEP COMPLEX PLAYER CHARACTER

example:

https://i.imgur.com/cqoj7uM.jpg
were you expecting something saucy...? Mind out of the gutter, she's a Paladin!

Cluedrew
2017-02-12, 06:27 PM
I'm in the "gives me another axis to define my character on" group. I see the character as someone else not me in that setting by default. Playing someone who is not me is part of the game.

Quertus
2017-02-12, 06:46 PM
I'm partially ambivalent about it, to me it's a case of 'which gender do I think fits the character better'. I have a necromancer I want to play who ran away from her family to avoid an arranged marriage, and the character has to be female in order for the backstory to work (the family is heavily misogynistic), but if either gender works I'll default to male. I've got another tucked away who doesn't have to be female for the concept to work, but I feel works better as a woman.

Part of this is because I personally don't consider gender important, so I'm comfortable playing someone with a vagina. I mean, I'm sure my characters don't act particularly believably, but that's the same as my male characters and I simply don't crossplay in groups that don't like it.

IMO, this states my opinion better than I would have.

To which I'll add: Why do we play characters of different strength, intellect, race, time period, different anything than ourselves? Why don't we always roleplay as ourselves?

IMO, part of the fun of role-playing is to explore someone different than yourself.

But, since "gender" isn't terribly important to me / to my view of "self", it's not something I bother changing / exploring very often. I pretty much only cross play when the character happens to turn out that way.

Fable Wright
2017-02-12, 07:48 PM
EDIT: please, are you telling me a cosplaymancer can't crossplay? I am shocked.

Given the kinds of people Adepts in Unknown Armies are? Minor ones could, but Significant ones are going deep into Mystic Hermaphrodite territory to make that work, which adds a whole 'nother kettle of fish to the concept that you might not want to get into.

slachance6
2017-02-12, 11:12 PM
People sometimes play different genders than themselves for the same reason they play characters of different races, abilities, personalities and backgrounds than they have in real life: to have a greater sense of escapism. It's certainly easier to roleplay a character that looks, thinks and acts like the player, but some players like the challenge of stepping into the shoes of a completely different person. And gender is just one factor that can make the character more interesting to play for most people.

Fri
2017-02-12, 11:49 PM
Because a cool lady knight character concept conjure a different image from a cool lord knight character concept.

Geddy2112
2017-02-13, 12:36 AM
I base the majority of my characters off of real people, a distant second are established fantasy characters. In these cases, I just take the gender of whatever that person was/is. If I wanted to roleplay Napoleon Bonaparte, the character would be male. If I was playing Joan of Arc, the character would be female. I do it mostly to keep consistent with the person/character I am roleplaying (although playing John of Arc or gender bending history does seem fun now). A person's gender/biological sex/sexual identity can function into their character, so If I am going to roleplay them, I need to get into their head, including the parts of the sexual/gender identity.

Of the minority of characters that are true homebrew they skew slightly male, but I have a good pool of female homebrews as well.

Overall,I don't see it as a problem. With the exception of one player, everyone in my gaming group has played both sexes. We really just don't care.

icefractal
2017-02-13, 01:33 AM
Well, I've GM'ed. And when you GM, you have to play characters of other genders, unless your setting is very unusual.

So you get used to it, and at that point it's more "why not?" I don't do it quite as often as not, but if the character is inspired by an existing female character, or just the mental image I have seems to fit better that way, then why wouldn't I?

Also, some people like to roll elements of their character randomly, and gender can be one of those elements.

DataNinja
2017-02-13, 03:12 AM
I'll add another to the camp of my characters just... end up as one gender or the other. I generally don't set out to make one or the other, something just materializes. Sometimes I'll start making a girl, and she ends up a guy in the final draft, or vice versa. I like exploring various facets. But I don't begrudge people who aren't comfortable playing as a different gender.

Only playing play-by-post really helps, because not only do I not have to use my voice, but, unless I know them through other means, no one has any preconceptions of who I am, genderwise.

Jerrykhor
2017-02-13, 04:38 AM
The logic is simple: Even though I am not a female IRL, but I am also not an elf/dwarf/orc IRL. Play whatever you want.

Also, its an easy excuse to PVP 'that guy' when he hits on you with his super edgy ninja character.

Anonymouswizard
2017-02-13, 04:55 AM
I'm going to be honest here, I've experienced the lesbian stripper ninja character type, but only played by women. Bothall? genders cross playing seem to be doing it for character reasons, not for teh hotness or the like (fun fact, the character with the largest chest in any game I've played in was also from a female player, and I can only remember them as the psychic stripper [they were telekinetic and worked as a stripper]).

caden_varn
2017-02-13, 06:38 AM
As per previous posters, sometimes a character just ends up feeling female in my head, and if that's the case I play them that way.

But sometimes game worlds have strong gender roles/assumptions (particularly historical ones, such as Aces and Eights, a western game). In these worlds, I sometimes see an interesting situation I'd like to explore based on that. For example, in Aces and Eights, another (female) player decided to play a male character due to the issues of being a lone woman in the setting. This made me think about that, so I decided to play a female character to explore that element of the setting. I had her pretending to be a man, so had to think how to keep her secret from the rest of the townsfolk - lack of facial hair, avoiding needing medical treatment etc. In this sort of setting, the sex of your character limits the sort of issues you can explore to an extent.

Pugwampy
2017-02-13, 06:39 AM
I automatically assign female roles to certain classes usually the non violent roleplaying variety . Say priestess or bard or for example , I could never play those as a male not if i want to get into it .
Basically if my class and race is good at mincing HP , I can only imagine doing that as a male .

Orc , Dwarf , fighter or arcane castor is a male for me .
Elf , half Elf , human , divine castor healer is a female .


I dont mind pretending to be a girl probably because i am curious what being a girl is like . Naturally i am a girly girl when i play dnd as a girl . I dont do it for a hopeful lesbian relationship as i noticed most gender bender nerds like doing . If i am girl i am a girl who likes boys .

Its fun adventuring with girls . Even fake ones . If boys are the best liars then you are getting a whole lot of woman thats even better then the real thing .:smallbiggrin:

Logosloki
2017-02-13, 07:30 AM
I'm also not an 8 ft tall NE Minotaur Great Old One Bladepact Warlock, who is laying the foundations for a tsunami that will wipe out several coastal cities, all in the name of Dagon.

Frozen_Feet
2017-02-13, 08:25 AM
The very first tabletop character I made was a woman. I didn't have any great big reason for it, that was just the character that came to my mind. Of course, it never really occurred to me that there's anything odd about it. Afterall, in each game a GM has to play all sorts of characters, so why'd it be any more peculiar if a player chose to play a character unlike them? I really didn't come across the term "crossplaying" or stereotypes associated with untill I was already an adult.

For the record, it did occur to me that there's a disconnect caused by differences in voice and appearance between player and character. But I did not consider this distinct from other such disconnects. It may be a hard sell pretending to be a grown woman when you're an adolescent boy, but so is pretending to be grown man.

I continue the tradition of playing characters who share neither my sex nor my gender when the idea hits me.

MarkVIIIMarc
2017-02-13, 10:06 AM
When I rolled a tiny 5'1" character with high dex and charisma but low strength I figured it was just easier to make it a girl. Maybe because I'm more than a foot taller than that.

So watching I combined some story lines from Sons of Anarchy and Veronica Mars and got a back story.

Really I don't think I'm doing the roleplaying that great. But I have accomplished "non interrupting" and don't think I've created any uncomfortable situations. Everyone at our table knows my character's name though.

The other day I came up with a back story for a good character, now that fella is going to be a disturbing Paladin type who is going to rely on exposing awkward social problems!

Mmagsgreen
2017-02-13, 10:08 AM
I found this an interesting question to ask myself. When writing fiction, my main characters are usually women, but in roleplaying I always play a male (which I identify as in real life). I suppose to some extent it's because of the fact that when I'm gaming, I'm usually gaming for the purposes of power fantasy, and it's easier for me to derive satisfaction from it while playing a guy.

To put it another way, at least 90% of the time, I feel like I'm playing some version of myself in a game. Conversely, I enjoy playing female NPCs when running a game, but that's because I'm not trying to identify with them in the same way.

Max_Killjoy
2017-02-13, 10:32 AM
A lot of my thoughts have already been covered, but...

1) Some characters just come out of my imagination as female, not even sure why, but they do and I'm not going to remold them for no reason.

2) I've GMed so much that I've played female characters as the GM almost as often as male... no one seems to have an issue with the GM doing this, despite some having an issue with cross-gender PCs.

3) If it's no big deal to play an elf, or an alien, or some sort of dragon-person, or whatever... what's the big deal about playing the "opposite" gender?

4) My characters aren't really someone I'd outright like to be or a direct power fantasy, it's more that they're characters I want to explore, and see in a game. It's the frustrated writer in me, or something, or characters that don't have a spot in (potential future) fiction.

tensai_oni
2017-02-13, 10:40 AM
Because one thing cooler than a woman who can kick ass clad in full armor is one who wears a fancy dress and is just as capable/badass in a fight.

A more serious answer:
I don't play to self insert, I play to explore a character, like how Max Killjoy said above. And sometimes, the character's gender is important in their story - I am not saying that someone's personality is different because they're a man or a woman, but rather that society may see some of your actions or choices differently depending on who you are.

Knaight
2017-02-13, 10:41 AM
Like many other people in this thread, I prefer to play a variety of characters (which is part of the reason I enjoy GMing as much as I do, where hopping in and out of characters all the time is part and parcel of the job), and in the course of doing that there's some gender variance. There's also variance in all sorts of other things - an arrogant space pirate is a different character entirely than a child prodigy mage in a mystic bronze age, to use two different NPC examples. As far as characters being different from myself goes, gender variations are small potatoes - I personally might be in the "assigned as male, don't give a hoot" category, but characters who comfortably fit within one gender or another represent a far smaller divergence than, say, the deeply devout religious fanatic I played most recently, or the extremely mentally simple gentle giant pushed into life as a warrior I played before that.

I also GM the vast majority of the time (97-98% or so), and as a GM playing characters in a wide variety is core to just about every setting. Every NPC in the whole setting being one gender is going to be bizarre. Every NPC in the whole setting being nearly the same age is going to be bizarre. Every NPC in the whole setting having similar moral codes is bizarre, and also it cuts off the vast majority of antagonists.

Aron Times
2017-02-13, 11:38 AM
Hm... I almost always play male characters in video games and RPGs, though not out of conscious effort. I subconsciously choose male heroes/characters/classes unless choosing a female hero/character/class would benefit me more (since I play to win).

In DotA 2, I went through my last 12 months of games. I played 506 matches and out of those 506, I played a female hero 70 times, and played a hero of indeterminate gender only twice (Io). My most played female hero is Medusa, and I attribute this to me seeing her as a missile destroyer (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacrossMissileMassacre) and not as a woman. My second most played female hero in this time frame is Crystal Maiden, which makes sense because I'm a support player in DotA 2 and CM is the quintessential support hero.

Right now, in D&D 3.5, I am playing a male human sorcerer.

In Skyrim, I am playing a male Imperial fire mage.

In Pillars of Eternity, I am playing a male Old Vailian wizard.

In Starcraft 2's coop mode, I play as Rory Swann.

Zanos
2017-02-13, 11:52 AM
I meant that if someone is telling you that you're playing "men with boobs" when you play female characters, then they have a constrained sense of what a female character "should" be like.
Despite what some folks will have you believe, modern men and women do have behaviors and preferences that are vastly more common among one gender than another. So if you're a masculine male and your female characters have similar personalities and preferences to your male characters, it's likely that they're not being portrayed as very feminine. "Man with boobs" is a crass evaluation, but it's not exactly wrong. Portraying femininity appropriately and realistically is a problem in a lot of industries that are dominated by primarily male writers, who usually just don't have the experience of living as someone feminine.

I personally don't cross-play because there's a little bit of myself in all of my characters and I identify more with my own gender, which makes getting into character much easier for me. I don't really take an issue with people who do cross-play unless they're being particularly weird about it. There were some folks who's...preferences were known to me, and they pretty much only made characters that fit those preferences. It's a little odd playing with someone who wants to bang their character, I'll say.

JeenLeen
2017-02-13, 11:53 AM
I generally play as my own gender out of a mix of 1) my friends would probably be a little weirded out if I played as the other and 2) since I want to get in a character's head, it's easier for me to if it's my own gender. I don't think I generally play as a self-insert, but when I try to get into a character's head, it involves... I guess taking a mental 'snapshot' of my personality/mentality and shifting aspects until it's in that character. I figure I'd make more a caricature of the other gender than really capturing it. I guess I'm okay with being a caricature of a "tough, no-nonsense" fighter or a "sociopathic manipulator" but less-so in this respect. NOTE: I do not mean to imply that playing as the other gender necessarily includes a caricature; it's just, for how I RP, it's likely that would happen.

I did recently try making a character of another gender in a game, but the game died before it started, which was rather disappointing. I was looking forward to the experience and to test my ability to RP as such while avoiding the above.

Side note since been mentioned elsewhere: in console or computer RPGs, I do tend to play as female since I prefer hearing that voice and, generally, the social interactions seem more interesting. Just finished Dishonored 2 as the female main character and starting a replay as male, but the male just lacks some aesthetics.

Pugwampy
2017-02-13, 12:05 PM
It's a little odd playing with someone who wants to bang their character, I'll say.

Whats wrong with making the perfect fantasy girl for yourself , that you would love to bang ?

Whats wrong with wanting to be that perfect girl who likes boys , you created , regardless if you are a guy who likes girls in real life .

I am both of these when I play a girl hero .

Knaight
2017-02-13, 12:13 PM
Despite what some folks will have you believe, modern men and women do have behaviors and preferences that are vastly more common among one gender than another. So if you're a masculine male and your female characters have similar personalities and preferences to your male characters, it's likely that they're not being portrayed as very feminine. "Man with boobs" is a crass evaluation, but it's not exactly wrong. Portraying femininity appropriately and realistically is a problem in a lot of industries that are dominated by primarily male writers, who usually just don't have the experience of living as someone feminine.

What folks? This argument is basically nonexistent - there's plenty of argument that said behaviors and preferences are largely cultural and not innately biological, and plenty more that the vast majority could be either cultural or biological and it's nigh impossible to tell because the control groups of people who have no cultural background and non-biological intelligent entities embedded in a culture are somewhat unavailable for study, but that there are no differences at all? That's an argument that only shows up once you start taking existing arguments and start purging qualifiers like "innate" or "biological".

Zanos
2017-02-13, 12:38 PM
What folks? This argument is basically nonexistent - there's plenty of argument that said behaviors and preferences are largely cultural and not innately biological, and plenty more that the vast majority could be either cultural or biological and it's nigh impossible to tell because the control groups of people who have no cultural background and non-biological intelligent entities embedded in a culture are somewhat unavailable for study, but that there are no differences at all? That's an argument that only shows up once you start taking existing arguments and start purging qualifiers like "innate" or "biological".
There's people in this very thread saying that gender is basically irrelevant to character, so that point of view clearly isn't quite dead.

Max_Killjoy
2017-02-13, 12:43 PM
I meant that if someone is telling you that you're playing "men with boobs" when you play female characters, then they have a constrained sense of what a female character "should" be like.

The first rule of writing or RPing a crossgender character well, is to write or RP the character, not a gender.




Despite what some folks will have you believe, modern men and women do have behaviors and preferences that are vastly more common among one gender than another. So if you're a masculine male and your female characters have similar personalities and preferences to your male characters, it's likely that they're not being portrayed as very feminine. "Man with boobs" is a crass evaluation, but it's not exactly wrong. Portraying femininity appropriately and realistically is a problem in a lot of industries that are dominated by primarily male writers, who usually just don't have the experience of living as someone feminine.



Wow, it's like you quoted my comment and then went on to give a great example of exactly the sort of "well men are this way and girls are that way" preconception that I was talking about. Thank you.

cobaltstarfire
2017-02-13, 12:49 PM
Characters pop up as one or the other, or a third kind and that's just how they are, there isn't an "appeal" one way or another. The idea of changing a characters gender specifically so it will match mine seems kind of weird. Does it really bother some people that many of us occasionally play a gender other than our own? And why does it cause such bother?



As a mild aside I tend to experience existential confusion if I think too deeply about gender and how it relates to me. Like, sure I identify as female, but if you took that away, what would I be anyway? My sense of self is defined more strongly by my interests, and if you take away my gender my interests are traditionally/stereo-typically masculine. Often for online stuff I let people believe me to be man simply because it's much easier than dealing with the weird behavior and gating that will ensue if they know me to be a woman.

Zanos
2017-02-13, 01:09 PM
Wow, it's like you quoted my comment and then went on to give a great example of exactly the sort of "well men are this way and girls are that way" preconception that I was talking about. Thank you.
I never said it was universal. Exceptions exist, but in order for them to be exceptions, there must be a trend. Women with masculine preferences are definitely less common than men with masculine preferences.

Knaight
2017-02-13, 01:24 PM
There's people in this very thread saying that gender is basically irrelevant to character, so that point of view clearly isn't quite dead.

You're conflating two distinct concepts. One is the claim that population dynamics are such that if one separates humans into groups along population lines you don't see frequency shifts in various characteristics. The other is that at the level of an individual their gender isn't particularly major, and even then that's restricted to a particular class of characters who are disproportionately likely to be adventurers, professional combatants, major figures in world events, etc. These aren't even remotely the same thing.

I'd argue that the extent to which gender matters for a character depends on the character, and that it is very, very rare for it to be among the most important features - particularly given the sort of setting-unusual things likely to show up in said characters. To use two examples of sets of character traits, consider "Woman, works a common job she dislikes, has two children, worries about chronic health issues, is an amateur writer and recently finished a novel, mildly involved in politics" versus "Woman, conquerer of three kingdoms, hero figure to millions for overthrowing corrupt leaders, slayer of horrific monstrosities, nearly unmatched archmage, struggles with the temptations of power and expectations put upon her as a legendary hero". For a given character with a given level of attachment to their gender, the first set of traits (based on a real person) put gender a bit higher in the ranking of significant traits. The second (based on things that could easily fit a PC) is basically a list of really major traits with gender mixed in.

Absol197
2017-02-13, 01:28 PM
I never said it was universal. Exceptions exist, but in order for them to be exceptions, there must be a trend. Women with masculine preferences are definitely less common than men with masculine preferences.

I see. So which gender, in your opinion, is more drawn to high heels and make up? Women, right?

Oh wait, except I was talking about the French Monarchy in the years before the Revolution, where those things were considered exceptionally masculine.

Any trait, hobby, behavior, accessory, or what have you can be, and probably has been, considered both masculine and feminine by some culture at some point in history. So while you're correct that certain behaviors are more common among certain genders now and in western society, that is in no way an innate ore biological thing, but a cultural one.

Which is what Max_Killjoy is trying to say: what you might call a "man with boobs" based on behaviour from your cultural perspective might, from a different cultural perspective, illicit a "wow, stereotype women much?"

McBish
2017-02-13, 01:28 PM
I cross-play as lot, both in RL and online. In RL it is probably because I dislike all my parties being all male all the time. But really I tend to make most characters I make up female. Maybe I enjoy classic feminine traits over classic masculine ones. Wits and using resources over being chosen or strong. Empathy is often seen as feminine and I have always felt highly empathic myself.

I also tend to be contrarian by nature, so I am more likely to play a male nurse or female soldier.

I like the challenge of really trying to get in the mindset of the opposite gender. I remember when I first started posting here I had a female avatar and no indication of what I identified as. I had another player ask if I was female ad my character gave some relationship advice.

There is more to it than that but that is my first thoughts.

Zanos
2017-02-13, 01:44 PM
I see. So which gender, in your opinion, is more drawn to high heels and make up? Women, right?

Oh wait, except I was talking about the French Monarchy in the years before the Revolution, where those things were considered exceptionally masculine.

Any trait, hobby, behavior, accessory, or what have you can be, and probably has been, considered both masculine and feminine by some culture at some point in history. So while you're correct that certain behaviors are more common among certain genders now and in western society, that is in no way an innate ore biological thing, but a cultural one.

Which is what Max_Killjoy is trying to say: what you might call a "man with boobs" based on behaviour from your cultural perspective might, from a different cultural perspective, illicit a "wow, stereotype women much?"
Most people playing tabletop games aren't members of the French Monarchy in the years before the Revolution, and most tabletop games, even vaguely medieval fantasy games, are heavily influenced by todays standards and cultures because they were written by people born, generally, in the last seventy years. In any case particular facets of gender sterotypes aren't really relevant to my argument.

I'd never argue that gender is the most important facet of character. Two random wizards probably have more in common than two random women or men. But gender isn't interchangeable, and shouldn't be treated as though it's interchangeable when writing or playing a character. People don't just pop out as archmages, and there are few cultures at any point in history where men and women shared the same upbringing or adulthood.

Max_Killjoy
2017-02-13, 01:59 PM
Most people playing tabletop games aren't members of the French Monarchy in the years before the Revolution, and most tabletop games, even vaguely medieval fantasy games, are heavily influenced by todays standards and cultures because they were written by people born, generally, in the last seventy years. In any case particular facets of gender sterotypes aren't really relevant to my argument.

I'd never argue that gender is the most important facet of character. Two random wizards probably have more in common than two random women or men. But gender isn't interchangeable, and shouldn't be treated as though it's interchangeable when writing or playing a character. People don't just pop out as archmages, and there are few cultures at any point in history where men and women shared the same upbringing or adulthood.

And never mind that a great proportion of RPG systems/rules/settings combos wouldn't result in anything like those historical cultures to begin with.

Evidently it's fine to have a world full of wondrous magic and high fantasy also stuck as a perpetual medieval mashup for millenia, but if gender roles don't sync up with semi-modern (or rather, some Victorian era / 50s TV-land garbage) notions about gender roles, that's a no-go.

Lemmy
2017-02-13, 02:10 PM
So just to start off, in case you don't know what cross playing is in RPGs, it's when a guy plays as a girl and vice versa.

I have no problem with this, but I've personally never saw what was so fun about it. I always play as a male character, and so does most of my group. In fact, the only female character I've played with was when a girl played as one. However, on this forum, especially in the FFRP section, a lot of people seem to really like cross playing.

So what makes cross playing so fun for you guys?It isn't particularly fun or unfun....

What is fun, though, is trying new character concepts. Having all characters be male is like having all characters be blond, left-handed or shy. I could have all my characters share one or more specific traits, but that's boring. "Variety is the spice of life" and all that...

Stealth Marmot
2017-02-13, 02:45 PM
I don't really know why I chose to make female characters at some point. I usually play males, but I would say 1 in 3 are female, and I am not entirely sure why except I wanted to try it. Same reason Ive played one of most of the core races, juts because I wanted to try it.

That said, if I were to guess why people cross play, aside from the immature "I get my boobs out" people, it would be to allow for a certain sense of diversity in group makeup. I think that people on a certain level want a group that has more than just guys in it for the same reason they want more than just one type of person in the group. Adding diversity adds group dynamics and interaction that adds some interesting potential conversations, conflict, and expression of views. I mean when you have a group of dwarves, elves, halflings, and humans, the fact that they are so diverse in race but somehow all dudes might leave a sticking point in a person's mind, even if a group of PLAYERS being all dudes might not.

I suspect, but have no proof or data to back it up, that if a play group is more diverse in player gender that there would be less overall crossplay, but like I said I'm just theorizing.

Zanos
2017-02-13, 02:45 PM
And never mind that a great proportion of RPG systems/rules/settings combos wouldn't result in anything like those historical cultures to begin with.

Evidently it's fine to have a world full of wondrous magic and high fantasy also stuck as a perpetual medieval mashup for millenia, but if gender roles don't sync up with semi-modern (or rather, some Victorian era / 50s TV-land garbage) notions about gender roles, that's a no-go.
Engaging with someone who constantly interprets your argument in the most ignorant possible way sure is a treat.

If your setting is written with a particular historical period in mind that has it's own gender norms, those should influence characterization. As it turns out most systems and settings aren't written that way because it significantly reduces mass appeal to play as characters with vastly different cultural norms. Whoddathunk.

Roderick_BR
2017-02-13, 02:53 PM
I just like to design and draw female characters. I leave it more for online games rather than table games, tough.

GungHo
2017-02-13, 03:22 PM
Whatever works for the character I'm envisioning. Sometimes it's George the Fighter. Sometimes it's Rebecca the Enchantress. I'm just playing the character I made. I'm not an Orc or an Elf, either. I'm not exploring an identity. It's just not that big a deal. I also don't really care that the sheriff deputy who looks like Shaq's twin brother sitting across from me is always playing Tiny Tina, Halfling Alchemist, because he's hilarious and can do the voice spot on. He has fun, so we have fun.

That being said, I can absolutely understand the appeal for folks who are trans or wonder if they may be and have no other safe way of exploring that sort of thing. I wish they didn't have to play a game to get to be who they want to be without feeling exposed, but I also can't make other people in the world not suck.

Segev
2017-02-13, 03:31 PM
"When making a (fe)male character, make a PERSON first, and a (wo)man second" doesn't mean you ignore, necessarily, the sex of the character. It means that the sex is, at most, a secondary consideration.

The very fact that my favorite game works as well as it does to reveal assumptions so deeply embedded that people are surprised to discover them tells us that it's highly likely that, when you put the mars or venus symbol on your character, you will likely start to associate some things with that character. But if you built a person first, those ingrained assumptions and traits will not overpower the real "person" underneath. They'll just fill out some things. They'll set some underlying, perhaps unnoticed expectations, and inform some of your decisions.

Even without my intending to, the one time I played a male character who was pretending to be female (it was to hide from a cult that thought he was the Chosen Child of Destiny and who he wanted nothing to do with), players noticed a difference between this and other girl characters I'd played. Because my own underlying assumptions about "boy pretending to be a girl" are different than "girl," and that informed some of the way "she" played out.

Now, obviously that says more about me than it does about "people in general," but I think that I am not so unusual in this respect. Especially, again, since I recognize that playing my favorite game with various works does reveal some interesting, previously-unexamined assumptions and expectations. When you flip the sex of all characters in a scene and then let the scene play out by the same script, some things that seem perfectly normal suddenly feel off. Or even uncomfortable. (Naru Narusegawa, I'm glaring at you.)

8BitNinja
2017-02-13, 04:33 PM
The logic is simple: Even though I am not a female IRL, but I am also not an elf/dwarf/orc IRL. Play whatever you want.

Also, its an easy excuse to PVP 'that guy' when he hits on you with his super edgy ninja character.

I never said that what anyone was doing was wrong or weird, I was just wondering why people liked it so much.

Look at it this way, I personally do not like Diet Coke, but a lot of people do. I have nothing against fans of Diet Coke, but I don't know why people like it, so I'm asking.

Deified Data
2017-02-13, 04:43 PM
Roleplayers like to inhabit headspaces different than their own. I may be a man, but I'm not an alcoholic, boisterous, violent one - but my character may be, and that's an interesting thing to portray. The same principle applies to portraying any character other than yourself. If a character's gender is important to their life experience and background, I can see why someone would find that compelling.

Zanos
2017-02-13, 04:47 PM
"When making a (fe)male character, make a PERSON first, and a (wo)man second" doesn't mean you ignore, necessarily, the sex of the character. It means that the sex is, at most, a secondary consideration.

Now, obviously that says more about me than it does about "people in general," but I think that I am not so unusual in this respect. Especially, again, since I recognize that playing my favorite game with various works does reveal some interesting, previously-unexamined assumptions and expectations. When you flip the sex of all characters in a scene and then let the scene play out by the same script, some things that seem perfectly normal suddenly feel off. Or even uncomfortable. (Naru Narusegawa, I'm glaring at you.)
Pretty much this. I was just suggesting that gender isn't totally irrelevant to characterization and shouldn't be treated as interchangeable. That someone plays their male and female characters exactly the same is a fair observation to make.


Also, its an easy excuse to PVP 'that guy' when he hits on you with his super edgy ninja character.
If gender(or consent) stopped him, you have yet to encounter the ultimate "that guy."

I played in a game where a player got invited, and his first act was to attempt to get the bard(halfling male) drunk and have sex with him, and when that didn't work he tried to get the cleric(aasimar female) drunk and have sex with her, and then when that didn't work he tried to break into my wizard's(elf male) room and kill him. Probably because I was making sure he didn't abscond with anyone's unconscious bodies and called him an "ignorant simpleton" for not believing in deities when everyone in the party had physically met at least one. Fortunately I was secretly undead and don't sleep or trance. And I arcane locked my door. And cast alarm. I feared for my bones.

Hilariously enough he wasn't a ninja...but he was a swordsage assassin who dual wielded daggers, wore all black, and introduced himself by "stepping out of coiling shadows" at a polite dinner party hosted by the local lord. He didn't make it in that game very long.

Max_Killjoy
2017-02-13, 05:12 PM
Pretty much this. I was just suggesting that gender isn't totally irrelevant to characterization and shouldn't be treated as interchangeable. That someone plays their male and female characters exactly the same is a fair observation to make.


Huh.



Despite what some folks will have you believe, modern men and women do have behaviors and preferences that are vastly more common among one gender than another. So if you're a masculine male and your female characters have similar personalities and preferences to your male characters, it's likely that they're not being portrayed as very feminine. "Man with boobs" is a crass evaluation, but it's not exactly wrong. Portraying femininity appropriately and realistically is a problem in a lot of industries that are dominated by primarily male writers, who usually just don't have the experience of living as someone feminine.


(Emphasis added.)

Maybe I just know too varied a set of women in my personal life, to put any stock in notions of "feminine preferences" and "feminine personalities" and "portraying femininity appropriately".

There's the art-teacher who knows how to weld and cast bronze. Or head of the dance department at a local university whose specialties are lighting design and technology, set design, and history of dance. Both of them are also mothers. Or the accountant with no kids, who prefers camping and hiking for her vacations, and who isn't "girly" at all... unless you get her talking about the cats at the shelter she volunteers at. Or the sales-coordinator single-mom who spends her weekends snowmobiling and dirt-biking and doing her own renovations on her house. Or the VP of sales, who is absolutely no-nonsense and driven and so on... whose husband is a work-from-home professional chef.

Or hell, just take a look at the variation in personalities and "other interests" and family status for women in the player pool for US national soccer, despite all of them sharing an intense interest in and focus on, well, soccer.

Other than the chromosomal and anatomical differences, I don't see any reason to ever say "because this character is a woman, ___________" (insert personality trait or liking something or whatever), or start out with sex being anything other than an M or an F (or something else, depending) on the character sheet.


AND, in many games/campaigns, we're already talking about exceptional people who don't meet their society's normal expectations regardless of gender anyway. Wandering strangers and sellswords with nebulous cultural or tribal or family ties are already an exception and should probably be viewed with some degree of suspicion in most of the cultures that fantasy game settings are nominally modeled after.

If we're going to worry about "historical gender norms", why aren't we worried about other historical cultural norms?

Or if "adventurers" are already their own subculture, why not just have "normal people" view that subculture the same way regardless of individual gender? And in the subculture, given what they do and what they face on a routine basis, why not have competence and lethality and trustworthiness and courage mean more than what someone's packing in their pants?

Ashen Lilies
2017-02-13, 06:51 PM
Say I'm making a lady knight, in a setting I've decided doesn't have many lady knights. That's going to affect her characterization significantly compared to if she was a dude knight, and not just because she tied a pink ribbon to her lance and has puppies playing in a field as the sigil on her shield.

People have always treated her with a mix of bewilderment, scorn, and even pity. When she meets new people she's automatically guarded and quick to be defensive, because she expects the ridicule at this point. The party members find her to be overly prickly and stand-offish, because she assumes they're mocking her when they're not.

The first night with new companions, she always offers to take the first watch. She remains awake for most of the night, and sleeps with her weapons close-at-hand for several nights after, at the edge of camp. She's never been comfortable sleeping alone in the middle of a band of strange men.

She's riddled with nervous anxiety because of her exceptional status. She often feels like an impostor and worries about whether she'll ever be good enough. She constantly second-guesses herself and agonizes over her own decisions because she finds it hard to act in isolation of her perceived womanhood. "Am I showing mercy here because it is the right and just thing to do?" She thinks. "Or am I only being merciful because of my soft woman's heart?" (counterpoint: "Men don't cry" or men taking specific actions because of fear of emasculation or being seen as 'weak'.)

Or maybe the opposite: she's brash, arrogant, and incredibly brittle and unresponsive to criticism. People have frequently doubted her or countermanded her plans, solely on the basis that she's a woman. Her default response is "you're only saying that because I'm a woman", even when the criticisms are reasonable and well-founded. Her experience has made it difficult for her to differentiate between dissent founded purely on sexism, and those based in truth. Her bitterness causes her to ignore both and go her own path, always, heedless of consequences it might bring.

She follows a chivalric code that has some... unfortunate assumptions in regards to gender relations. Her status as both a lady and a knight has forced her to do some deeper introspection into the nuances of her code and how it applies to her, and has come to terms with the fact that it may work better as an abstract ideal than a rule of conduct to be taken verbatim. This necessary forethought and self-awareness that the majority of knights aren't required (required) to possess allows her to see through a facade, avoid getting suckered by a charismatic zealot, act in an unconventional manner that would be considered to be exceptional among her male fellows that were able to take their vows at face value without the accompanying existential musing.

These are all good, nuanced characterization points that came about by examining my character's gender and what that means, specifically, in contrast to a character who might have otherwise been equal in a lot of ways except for which box I ticked on their character sheet. None of these character points are unique to a specific gender: a dude knight can be prickly, or anxious, or arrogant, of course - but examining my character's gendered experiences informed me into selecting a profile of traits that would be harder to come by or result in different responses to different situations than if they had been a dude knight. (For a genderflipped version, consider differences in making a male drow character using the baseline DnD setting, compared to a female drow character.)

Or maybe I just ignore that stuff and make a lady knight who freely knocks back kegs with the bros at the bar, doesn't take no crap from anybody, and likes hitting people with metal sticks from horseback, and no one notices any incongruity and doesn't treat her differently, and she doesn't act differently either. That's fun too. It's a fantasy game, after all, so you can do whatever you want.

Cluedrew
2017-02-13, 06:59 PM
Maybe I just know too varied a set of women in my personal life, to put any stock in notions of "feminine preferences" and "feminine personalities" and "portraying femininity appropriately".I can list off all sorts of feminine traits (masculine ones too). That doesn't mean I can't list off a exceptions to both lists. They these things may not be universal across or within cultures, as what is expected varies and people don't match that expectation, but they do exist. Maybe they shouldn't but that is a different point.


Or if "adventurers" are already their own subculture, why not just have "normal people" view that subculture the same way regardless of individual gender?Well usually adventurers are not really there own culture. Perhaps they should be but usually they are people from existing classes and cultures who go on adventures. A well known or easily identified one might get a particular reaction, like a doctor or criminal might (which one of those depends) but I have rarely seen settings there the other rules of society stop applying to them.

Max_Killjoy
2017-02-13, 07:24 PM
I can list off all sorts of feminine traits (masculine ones too). That doesn't mean I can't list off a exceptions to both lists. They these things may not be universal across or within cultures, as what is expected varies and people don't match that expectation, but they do exist. Maybe they shouldn't but that is a different point.

Well usually adventurers are not really there own culture. Perhaps they should be but usually they are people from existing classes and cultures who go on adventures. A well known or easily identified one might get a particular reaction, like a doctor or criminal might (which one of those depends) but I have rarely seen settings there the other rules of society stop applying to them.


You're not wrong -- however, if a setting takes pains to be "historically accurate" regarding gender roles, perhaps it should take pains to be accurate about other social expectations and norms that are typically glossed over for the sake of enabling games about wandering adventurers.

And if the setting is then going to consciously open up a space where not meeting those expectations and norms is to some degree acceptable... why not extend that space to female adventurers at least equally enough to not make a big, every-session deal out gender? Why make gender different from expectations about family connections, feudal connections, ties to place of birth, etc?

legomaster00156
2017-02-13, 09:39 PM
Gender is just another aspect of the character to me. I don't give any real thought to whether or not I, the player, am male or female when I make my characters.

ImNotTrevor
2017-02-14, 01:38 AM
Huh.



(Emphasis added.)

Maybe I just know too varied a set of women in my personal life, to put any stock in notions of "feminine preferences" and "feminine personalities" and "portraying femininity appropriately".

There's the art-teacher who knows how to weld and cast bronze. Or head of the dance department at a local university whose specialties are lighting design and technology, set design, and history of dance. Both of them are also mothers. Or the accountant with no kids, who prefers camping and hiking for her vacations, and who isn't "girly" at all... unless you get her talking about the cats at the shelter she volunteers at. Or the sales-coordinator single-mom who spends her weekends snowmobiling and dirt-biking and doing her own renovations on her house. Or the VP of sales, who is absolutely no-nonsense and driven and so on... whose husband is a work-from-home professional chef.

Or hell, just take a look at the variation in personalities and "other interests" and family status for women in the player pool for US national soccer, despite all of them sharing an intense interest in and focus on, well, soccer.

Other than the chromosomal and anatomical differences, I don't see any reason to ever say "because this character is a woman, ___________" (insert personality trait or liking something or whatever), or start out with sex being anything other than an M or an F (or something else, depending) on the character sheet.


AND, in many games/campaigns, we're already talking about exceptional people who don't meet their society's normal expectations regardless of gender anyway. Wandering strangers and sellswords with nebulous cultural or tribal or family ties are already an exception and should probably be viewed with some degree of suspicion in most of the cultures that fantasy game settings are nominally modeled after.

If we're going to worry about "historical gender norms", why aren't we worried about other historical cultural norms?

Or if "adventurers" are already their own subculture, why not just have "normal people" view that subculture the same way regardless of individual gender? And in the subculture, given what they do and what they face on a routine basis, why not have competence and lethality and trustworthiness and courage mean more than what someone's packing in their pants?

I think the point they were making is that Sex/Gender have influence on a person's life.

That much is non-arguable unless you want to assert that a woman and a man will both get exactly the same kinds of reactions from exactly the same kinds of people, always. Which is a really silly thing to assert.

It is worth noting that sex and gender have a very large influence on a person's life. I'm sure many of the women you've listed will have varied and nuanced opinions about feminism as it was, is, amd appears to be becoming. My mom has many such feelings based on what it was like to be a woman when she was growing up, and she is well aware that her granddaughters have had and are having a very different experience that is still centered upon their being female.

It is 100% okay to have a character where their gender matters. If they are being used as an opportunity for a player to soapbox and preach all the time then it is understandably annoying. But putting a hard "No, female characters are not allowed to be influenced by one of their innate traits" is silliness.

That you know women whose entire life isn't centered on their femaleness is not special or odd. But I guarantee you that if you asked any of those women of their lives would be different if they were men, they would say "yes."

That's the point. If the character changes 0% from having their sex swapped, then that's going to be weird. The change need not be drastic, but it will likely cause changes.

Segev
2017-02-14, 01:40 AM
And if the setting is then going to consciously open up a space where not meeting those expectations and norms is to some degree acceptable... why not extend that space to female adventurers at least equally enough to not make a big, every-session deal out gender? Why make gender different from expectations about family connections, feudal connections, ties to place of birth, etc?

I don't think the statement, "Playing a woman and playing a man lead to different experiences due to social expectations and the subconsciously assumed traits that are associated with one's sex," and "Not every session has to be a big deal over the sex of the characters," are incompatible.

Just because Patricia the Paladin has some different characterization from Pete the Paladin due to the inherent way that the players (especially Patricia's player) think about women vs. men doesn't mean that "Patricia is a woman" has to be of great and central importance at all, let alone every session.

The Vanishing Hitchhiker
2017-02-14, 02:00 AM
The thing is, people are affected by how others treat them, but that doesn't mean it will have the same effect. So a family of royal daughters could consist of the rebellious warrior Serafin, the meek yet dutiful Isemelia, and the cunning and duplicitous Dilanta, all working together to wrest back control from the scheming council that sprang up during their father's illness. Same background, same goal, but still very different people. And the same would apply to a family of three sons (even if the council might have different ideas about how fit they are to rule—and just try to usurp anyway).

Frozen_Feet
2017-02-14, 03:59 AM
@Zanos: having lived with is more useful than having lived as, for players of all sexes. That's because what things are considered feminine and masculine are based on mass, rather than individual, behaviour, and what counts as mass behaviour is decided on observations of external reality, not internal experience.

So a male player will have easy time playing a convincing female character if they have lots of female friends and acquitances to draw from.

By contrast a loner or atypical female will have a hard time playing a convincing female character, as they have poor understanding of which of their traits are generalizeable to other women and which are not.

"Convincing" is different from "plausible". "Convincing" here means the character registers as feminine, or at least a typical representant of a woman. "Plausible" means a person like this could or does exist in reality. A plausible character who is unconvincing will feel unfeminine or atypical for a woman. The same holds true for men and masculinity.

Note that the things which make someone unconvincing are finicky and often kinda stupid. I get odd looks from my female friends for using nail polish and knowing how to bake. Online, I've failed to pass the Turing test because my punctuation is too exact. I've been told to my face (both in negative & positive contexts) that people like me don't exist... for things like giving someone something for free.

Note also that "typical" is not the same as average. A plain-looking, physically strong & dirty-minded lesbian soccer player is not average, but they are typical because they hit both the stereotype for butch lesbian and female soccer players. For something to be typical, it only needs to happen enough of times in some subpopulation to create a stereotype. In absolute terms, it can still be rare.

Jerrykhor
2017-02-14, 04:07 AM
I never said that what anyone was doing was wrong or weird, I was just wondering why people liked it so much.

Look at it this way, I personally do not like Diet Coke, but a lot of people do. I have nothing against fans of Diet Coke, but I don't know why people like it, so I'm asking.

As someone who only ever play female characters (bar one), I'd say the appeal to me is for variety. My group only has 1 female player, and everyone plays as their gender (including her).

Another appeal is pure fantasy. Don't you ever wish you were something else, sometimes? Yes you do, or you wouldn't be playing this game. I think its fun to imagine myself as a female, they usually get the best responses in terms of RP. Years of playing video games and computer RPGs have made me believe that playing as a female character is better. If its a 3rd person view, they are smaller/slimmer so they don't block much of the view, and if its an action game, they tend to have a smaller hitbox. Also, some of them have nice curves and a good butt.

To give you an example, when playing Dragon Age Origins, there was the part where you were going through the Joining of the Grey Wardens, and it was clear there was some risk in not making it out. Your party members (all male) were discussing about it, and most of them were pretty scared/worried, some even freak out. Being a female elf mage, one of my dialogue options was: 'Looks like I'm the only man around here.' Pure gold and ultimate burn.

Dagroth
2017-02-14, 04:19 AM
My most significant "crossplay" character was in a superhero game. The character took inspiration from a number of sources... "Rose & Thorn" of DC comics, "Deadpool" (a little) and even a bit from "The Creeper" also from DC comics. It just fit for the split personality Assistant DA by day, Martial Artist by night to be a woman. For her to want to stop street crime by beating up gang members just enough to get them to surrender, then make them sit down and watch educational TV. Unhinged, yet caring. To take a description from an Anime character... "She's a nice girl, for a violent maniac."

As a GM most of the time, I have plenty of NPCs who are woman so I never see any problem playing a PC who is a woman.

I did freak a GM out once by playing a character who was basically the ultimate infiltrator in a Sci-Fi game. The character could change much like a Ebberon Chameleon and was sent by a semi-paranoid race to investigate other alien races before they would even consider revealing themselves.

Fiery Diamond
2017-02-14, 06:35 AM
Full disclaimer: I've read nothing but the OP.

I'm not sure I understand the mindset of the question. It's like asking "What's the appeal of choosing the thimble as your token when playing Monopoly?" Uh... because the player happens to want to? I mean, do you need a reason?

When I'm a player, I usually play male characters (I'm male). But when I DM, a fair number of my important have-a-lot-of-PC-interaction-screentime NPCs are female characters. As a man (for the sake of clarifying gender as well as sex), I do not find it awkward to roleplay girl/woman characters. I do typically only do so when there is that extra step of separation between myself and the character, though - that is, when I'm roleplaying a character that I can speak of their actions with "He/She walks to the door and knocks, saying 'Anyone home?'" rather than "I walk to the door and knock. 'Anyone home?'" That's more of a social thing, though: because I am male, others around the table may find it weird for me to refer to my character in the first person when the character is female; it's not that I find it awkward myself.

Separate from gaming, when I am alone and bored I do a lot of what I call "making up stories," or "playing out story ideas," where I, instead of actually writing a story down like an author, will essentially do freeform out-loud RP by myself. Yes, anyone I tell this to thinks I'm crazy, but it's really not any weirder than what little kids who have no friends do when playing by themselves. Anyway, the point I'm getting to is that these stories always include multiple characters, so they include more than one gender, which means I do plenty of basically RPing as male and female characters. So... I just don't really get why it's even a notable thing.

Zanos
2017-02-14, 09:44 AM
i've failed to pass the turing test
WOULD YOU CARE TO DESTROY ALL HUMANS?

I don't think you said anything I disagree with.

Celestia
2017-02-15, 08:15 AM
There's no real difference between the potential personalities of men and women. Literally any character could work as either. The backstory might have to differ, but that's more immaterial and mutable. Therefore, I pretty exclusively play female characters because boobs. :X

Mr Beer
2017-02-16, 10:23 PM
If gender(or consent) stopped him, you have yet to encounter the ultimate "that guy."

I played in a game where a player got invited, and his first act was to attempt to get the bard(halfling male) drunk and have sex with him, and when that didn't work he tried to get the cleric(aasimar female) drunk and have sex with her, and then when that didn't work he tried to break into my wizard's(elf male) room and kill him. Probably because I was making sure he didn't abscond with anyone's unconscious bodies and called him an "ignorant simpleton" for not believing in deities when everyone in the party had physically met at least one. Fortunately I was secretly undead and don't sleep or trance. And I arcane locked my door. And cast alarm. I feared for my bones.

Hilariously enough he wasn't a ninja...but he was a swordsage assassin who dual wielded daggers, wore all black, and introduced himself by "stepping out of coiling shadows" at a polite dinner party hosted by the local lord. He didn't make it in that game very long.

I'm probably a bad person but that line raised my blood pressure more than the rapey stuff.

Nova_Eclipse
2017-02-16, 11:01 PM
I crossplay for a number of reasons. I have a vivid imagination, and I'm a visual person, so it's easy for me to see my characters' actions in my mind's eye, and often times playing a female character fits better with the concept I have for that character rather than male. I also tend to get bored with my male concepts at times, mostly because I feel like no matter what what the concept is, it's been done before, and while I'm aware that that's probably true regardless of gender, I tend to find that my female characters are often more interesting to me than my male ones. That makes them easier to write/play for me. I don't dislike either gender per se, and I have a healthy number of both genders bouncing around in my head, but I do tend to find the females easier to write, and more interesting personally, and I like to play concepts that I find interesting. That's pretty much all there is to it, at least for me.

Dimers
2017-02-17, 01:05 AM
I never said that what anyone was doing was wrong or weird, I was just wondering why people liked it so much.

I don't get the impression that people "like it so much" anyway. It feels more natural and fluid to some people in some cases, just like playing male characters feels more natural and fluid to you. That's all. It's not, like, ecstatic wonderment or a compulsion or whatever, it just happens to feel more right.

Some of my characters are male, some are female, and a scant few wouldn't be called either. I don't set out to play one gender or another, but I often get a sense of what a character's gender should be during the creation process. If I then try to play against that feeling, it strikes me and my fellow players as a bit 'off'.

Yora
2017-02-17, 08:35 AM
There is a danger. No real life elf will complain about your portrayal. But play a different gender or ethnicity and you might offend someone.

From this follows that a white man should only write books or make movies in which all characters are white men. And I don't think anyone would suggest that.

If someone feels seriously hurt by how I play a character that person probably can't stand to be in the same room with me anyway.

I don't know why, but I always find it disturbing that this thing seems to be an issue for people to such a degree that it has it's own name. Makes me feel uncomfortable any time I see it. Always seems to come with an underlying accusation that I am some kind of sexual deviant because I don't mind some diversity in my characters.

Max_Killjoy
2017-02-17, 09:55 AM
From this follows that a white man should only write books or make movies in which all characters are white men. And I don't think anyone would suggest that.

If someone feels seriously hurt by how I play a character that person probably can't stand to be in the same room with me anyway.


The secret, as always, is to write or RP a person, not "A _________ person".

If someone says "your character isn't ________ enough" or "your character is acting too white / too male / too whatever", then THEY have the problem.




I don't know why, but I always find it disturbing that this thing seems to be an issue for people to such a degree that it has it's own name. Makes me feel uncomfortable any time I see it. Always seems to come with an underlying accusation that I am some kind of sexual deviant because I don't mind some diversity in my characters.


Indeed -- there's no special term for a human RPing a different species... not sure why playing someone of differing gender needs special terms. But then, I guess, for some people, gender is a bigger deal than species, perhaps evidenced by non-mammalian female characters who still mysteriously have, um, the defining mammalian characteristics.

The Vanishing Hitchhiker
2017-02-17, 09:56 AM
Actually, the people who find their own voice dissonant for genders other than their own made me notice, over the last few days, that I have the opposite problem. I'm know I'm not good at voices, so when I have to sound "like a guy", I'm not bothered by whatever comes out. But when I have to sound like a woman who isn't me, I unfortunately seem to have standards. Accents are a lost cause so that's no help, but altering the pitch even a little makes me feel "ugh, this sounds fake as hell." Uncanny valley, maybe? I've gotten away with characters who basically have my own voice face to face, but there's already been a little IC/OOC confusion in my roll20 game. Won't send me fleeing to more male characters though, because like some of the DMs in the thread have said, we can't all be voice actors.

Fiery Diamond
2017-02-17, 01:19 PM
Actually, the people who find their own voice dissonant for genders other than their own made me notice, over the last few days, that I have the opposite problem. I'm know I'm not good at voices, so when I have to sound "like a guy", I'm not bothered by whatever comes out. But when I have to sound like a woman who isn't me, I unfortunately seem to have standards. Accents are a lost cause so that's no help, but altering the pitch even a little makes me feel "ugh, this sounds fake as hell." Uncanny valley, maybe? I've gotten away with characters who basically have my own voice face to face, but there's already been a little IC/OOC confusion in my roll20 game. Won't send me fleeing to more male characters though, because like some of the DMs in the thread have said, we can't all be voice actors.

Oh gosh, this reminds me. So, I'm so used to saying dialogue out loud that belongs to female characters that in my perception, my "female character" voices actually sound convincing, but in actuality, they aren't even identifiable as "supposed to be a woman's voice" to other people - unless they fall into the category in the next sentence. But if I try to exaggerate it a little, or use particularly high-pictured, childish/immature, or "feminine" voices, it sounds so incredibly fake (especially to others) as to be grating and kind of offensive. It's really quite irritating. It would be nice if I could actually do a passable female voice.

Freed
2017-02-17, 03:45 PM
Now you see, If I want to play a Hamadryad, I have to cross-play, despite the fact that I might simply just like the stats. It probably depends on the person, but I go with what I think fits my character first.

ComaVision
2017-02-17, 06:52 PM
I've only cross played once. It was more thematically appropriate for the class I wanted to play to be female than male. That being said, I didn't really play the character much differently.Sexuality isn't something I have an interest in roleplaying, whether my character is male or female.

My girlfriend was playing in that game as a princess though, and we had some catty IC arguments that most of my male characters wouldn't have participated in.

Segev
2017-02-17, 10:47 PM
There's also the gameplay reason to do crossplaying: what if you want to play, say, an Utaku Battle Maiden? That school expressly only allows female students.

There are a few D&D 3.5 PrCs that are sex-locked, too. (Mostly female-only, but I understand there's at least one male-only PrC out there, too, somewhere.)

If you want to try out those classes, or if you're a powergamer and your optimal build demands those classes...

Cluedrew
2017-02-17, 10:55 PM
There are a few D&D 3.5 PrCs that are sex-locked, too. (Mostly female-only, but I understand there's at least one male-only PrC out there, too, somewhere.)I believe it is some sort of eunuch guard.

Stealth Marmot
2017-02-18, 12:09 AM
I believe it is some sort of eunuch guard.

Harem Protector. Book of Erotic Fantasy.

....I READ IT FOR THE ARTICLES!

Malimar
2017-02-18, 12:28 AM
Harem Protector. Book of Erotic Fantasy.

....I READ IT FOR THE ARTICLES!

Eunuch Warlock in Oriental Adventures, too.

Zanos
2017-02-18, 12:44 AM
Eunuch Warlock in Oriental Adventures, too.
First party to boot.

Âmesang
2017-02-18, 01:31 AM
I'm lazy. Seriously.

Often times the characters I create are based on characters I've created elsewhere, whether from my artwork, a video game's character creation mode, or both; so I might have a character, male or female, with a particular appearance, personality, and skill set, and think that character could work well at the table.

Sometimes it's due to circumstance; my current character is a female dark elf antipaladin/assassin originally created for Storm King's Thunder—I was inspired by Against the Giants to play a drow seeking to form a union between the drow and the giants, but I didn't have any pre-painted drow figurines and my only unpainted elf figurine at the time happened to be female… which worked out well considering the drows' background and the name I chose, Variolus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus_variolus); however if I had had a male elf figurine instead, I would have been playing as a male drow.

Speaking of which I've purchased quite a few female pewter figurines in recent months… but that was primarily to balance out the numerous pre-painted plastic male figurines that I got years and years ago. I think the only pre-painted female figurines I had was an elf wizard and a harpy. Some of these new figurines have inspired me to create female characters in the future, such as a human barbarian with a sword, shield, large fur cloak (and not much else; yay for Unarmored Defense?) and an elf bard with a fancy guitar. On the other hand I also picked up a male halfling figurine since I didn't have any halflings …and this guy's got an eyepatch so that could be the start for something, plus I still like some of the plastic figurines like the medium-sized minotaur and the male dwarf cleric.

Some of the talk regarding "men with boobs" made me think about the personalities of my female characters and hoping that I've strived for some variety. Quintessa, the noble-born chaotic evil human sorceress is a typical flirtatious femme fatale sort, but also vain, conceited, selfish, self-centered, and egotistical; when it comes to interpersonal relationships she can be a giant tease but it never gets any farther because, in her mind, no one could possibly be good enough for her, being (as she'd put it) a "perfect reflection of the Suel Imperium during the Age of Glory." Variolus is much the same way, but replace any flirting with a totally condescending attitude; actually I'm not sure what's worse—being bluntly told you're a pathetic life form to your face, or having it revealed by otherwise sweet, eloquent words.

The neutral human ranger, Den Bloodsoul, could be considered a "man with boobs" in a way because she very much has a "strong, silent type/no nonsense/survival-of-the-fittest" mentality, only speaking if what she has to say is either important or sarcastic, being a very heavy drinker and smoker, preferring to settle disputes with her fists, and having lived much of her life by herself in the wilderness relying only on her wits; after all, when you're beset upon by a pack of hungry wolves they're not going to care about anything but how tasty you are so all that matters to her is strength… and so one aspect I wanted to roleplay out was how she would deal with working with others, putting her trust in them, and eventually learning that there's more to life than the simple, biological act of "living."

I once played a farmgirl-turned-paladin who had a very "mother bear" kind of feel to her, standing by her friends and fighting for those who were weak, poor, helpless, hopeless, &c. However I feel that came more from her lawful good personality (emphasis on good) and her down-home, Clark Kent-like upbringing. She wasn't a stick-up-her-butt, "lawful stupid" paladin, as she still had a sense of humor, enjoyed a tall ale (in moderation), and opted for diplomacy and non-lethal attacks whenever possible (but also understood that sometimes lethal methods were the only option).


I just like to design and draw female characters. I leave it more for online games rather than table games, tough.
This, too, as touched upon above; honestly I need to start drawing male characters more often…… actually I just need to start drawing again period—haven't drawn much of anything in a couple of years; but first thing on the table would be to draw a new illustration of Variolus (instead of borrowing this (http://www.schadenfreudestudios.com/backup/pictures/pin-ups/dota%20traxex%20by%20chizano.png)), something unnaturally svelte to match her high Dexterity, good Strength, and poor Constitution—I imagine in my head slender arms, slender legs, with a very inhuman grace that would be reminiscent of a long-legged spider slowly crawling a web towards its prey…

8BitNinja
2017-02-18, 12:01 PM
Harem Protector. Book of Erotic Fantasy.

....I READ IT FOR THE ARTICLES!

Have you read the flavor text for Lawful Neutral? It's hilarious.

There is a video where someone actually takes about three hours going through the whole thing.

digiman619
2017-02-19, 03:54 AM
Harem Protector. Book of Erotic Fantasy.

....I READ IT FOR THE ARTICLES!

Eh, I prefer the Book of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. It has better rules for that. Fun fact: When I got it, I was not expecting that book to be about the adult content it was; I thought it was a book on half-breed races.

Frozen_Feet
2017-02-19, 04:01 PM
Harem Protector. Book of Erotic Fantasy.

....I READ IT FOR THE ARTICLES!

You better, because the only remotely sexy picture is on the cover.

Stealth Marmot
2017-02-21, 08:41 AM
Have you read the flavor text for Lawful Neutral? It's hilarious.

There is a video where someone actually takes about three hours going through the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFR36BfY9bc

Delta
2017-02-23, 04:49 AM
I tend to gravitate toward female characters around a 2:1 to 3:1 ratio and I've actually thought about the "why" a lot but haven't really come up with an explanation beyond "I tend to find them more interesting"

One aspect is that I like to genderbend somewhat, when I come up with a concept, for some reason, I instinctively try to make it the gender you wouldn't expect at first glance, and, well, the majority of common fantasy/hero stereotypes are male by default. I'm sure you could psychoanalyze the motivation behind that for a while but in the end it comes down to what a said above, it's more interesting to me this way.

Marlowe
2017-02-23, 06:14 AM
I swear. We have this thread every three years or so.

It's like some people don't understand that it's a ROLE-PLAYING game.

Delta
2017-02-23, 07:10 AM
But to be fair, it has been a pretty civil thread from what I've seen with no one calling out cross-playing or whatever. Discussing what kind of characters you play and why you like playing them is a pretty valid topic of discussion for a roleplaying board in my opinion.

Maglubiyet
2017-02-23, 09:55 AM
I swear. We have this thread every three years or so.

It's like some people don't understand that it's a ROLE-PLAYING game.

For some people it's just a combat-simulation game. What pokey bits the individual pieces may or may not have is less important (read "irrelevant") than the boom-kapow stats.

Zanos
2017-02-23, 10:04 AM
I swear. We have this thread every three years or so.
That is actually ridiculously long. If i had a discussion on the same topic every 3 years in real life I would consider that infrequent, and the internet moves way faster.

S@tanicoaldo
2017-02-23, 10:17 AM
Have you read the flavor text for Lawful Neutral? It's hilarious.

There is a video where someone actually takes about three hours going through the whole thing.

Wow, I didn't expect YOU of all people to have read this book :p

To be fair some of the spells in this book are quite interesting. If I was a real magic user I would like to have some kinky spells.

Cluedrew
2017-02-23, 10:17 AM
I agree with Zanos, I've been here over two years and I thought I had seen ever re-occurring topic on the thread by now. This is the first cross-playing thread I have seen that has covered the "why" (unless I am forgetting one). The "what", as in define cross-playing, and "how", don't be offensive, have been covered but I think that is all I have seen.

Akal Saris
2017-02-23, 10:42 AM
I was playing D&D for close to 15 years before I played a female character, and even then it was in an online game, so it wasn't even like I was cross-playing a character with my usual gaming group. The funny thing is that I'm typically a DM, so I had been doing female character voices for 15 years, but I still felt sort of unsecure/"uncool" about cross-playing, like...D&D is already the kind of game that gets you teased in middle school, do I really want to take it a step further? So yeah....lack of self-confidence more than anything else kind of held me back from trying it out.

When I did finally play a female character, I decided on it because I had a really cool character concept in mind, and I wanted to explore my roleplaying skills some more. She ended up being one of the most fun & memorable characters I've had the opportunity to play, and it was great timing, since I had been getting burned out on D&D. But even now (9 years later) I've only played 2-3 female characters in RL games, simply because I've played so rarely compared with being a DM. And honestly, most of them are in hack & slash games where gender has never come up at all anyways.

I should mention that as a DM a few of my players are female, and one of them has made it a point to always cross-play as a male in the 15+ years that I've been gaming with her. By now it's a point of pride for her :P

Delta
2017-02-23, 11:04 AM
And honestly, most of them are in hack & slash games where gender has never come up at all anyways.

Although interestingly, it was with those games or gamers from such groups that I've encountered the most trouble when playing cross-gender characters, even though it technically shouldn't matter at all there.

Honest Tiefling
2017-02-23, 04:35 PM
Many reasons. But first, does gender matter? I would say...Yes and no. A lot of settings (and games!) don't delve into gender a whole bunch. Male or female, doesn't matter, so meh. But some do, to varying degrees of success and failure. Sometimes it can be an interesting tool, and sometimes the setting just needs to be set on fire and forgotten.

Myself, I consider it a challenge, and one most roleplayers should consider, especially if they wish to DM! If you do not feel comfortable as the other gender, perhaps this needs to be addressed in order to DM a proper game, or it's a challenge to overcome. If you can't portray 50% of the human population as a DM, that's an issue. Sadly, a lot of it boils down to mimicking speech habits of modern day society, but it's hard to convince players to think beyond that, and harder still to manage it.

My characters are male or female depending on the setting and concept. For instance, I once played in a game where my character was from a matriarchal society, so a male feeling that seemed more appropriate to bond with the fellow men of the group than being a lady with societal privileges. If gender isn't a thing, I might just end up rolling a die, because eh, whatever. I once got so lazy I just decided that my character was androgynous and maxed out bluff and never settled on it.

Or more honestly, if I've found an interesting picture that works for my concept that is more then just conventionally pretty (for the ladies) or conventionally grizzled (for the gentlemen). Lazy? Probably!

8BitNinja
2017-02-23, 07:08 PM
When I did finally play a female character, I decided on it because I had a really cool character concept in mind, and I wanted to explore my roleplaying skills some more. She ended up being one of the most fun & memorable characters I've had the opportunity to play, and it was great timing, since I had been getting burned out on D&D. But even now (9 years later) I've only played 2-3 female characters in RL games, simply because I've played so rarely compared with being a DM. And honestly, most of them are in hack & slash games where gender has never come up at all anyways.

Those are most of my games. The group I'm in doesn't really care about roleplaying. Most of us have come from CRPGs (I play Skyrim a ton, and I love me a good JRPG every now and then), so First Lieutenant Gary the Orc Fighter is less of that and more just "Fighter" or sometimes even just "Tank"

That might be a reason why I don't care.

WhismurWanders
2017-03-02, 05:24 AM
For me personally, its mostly to bring a little variety into the party. Just like you wouldn't want a party built from too many people of a single class, it adds to the adventuring flair to having a few people of differing genders along as well.

My IRL group is all guys, who play all guys (except me, for the most part). They looked at me kinda funny when I made my first female character with them, but they shrugged it off soon enough when the GM found out he couldn't bait me into playing a slutty character without designing the character that way specifically.

It's saved our butts a few times too. I don't have to make Willpower saves at increased DC whenever the barmaids try to flatter the party into paying more for food and drink, or when a scantily clad priestess was using doe eyes while attempting to steal the McGuffin we had just retrieved.

Esprit15
2017-03-02, 06:56 AM
To me, it just feels more comfortable and natural playing a female character. Maybe it helps distance the character from myself and feel more unique, rather than feel like "Me, but with [TRAIT]." I'll tend toward guys in my IRL group, since RP is less common and so one's sex is less relevant, but even then not always; I'm currently playing a female character who used to be an NPC.

2D8HP
2017-03-02, 07:27 AM
I have dim memories of playing female characters years ago, I guess I just had some character concepts, but I don't remember exactly what.

Lately I've only played males even when the character has been an expy of a character that was originally female in the novel.

The closest I've got to playing a female character lately was about a year ago when another player noticed that I hadn't put an entry for "gender", and asked me which my PC was (I hadn't yet filled in eye color and other things as well), I snarkily replied "half-Elf", (an OOTS and DM of the Rings reference), but that didn't suffice for the other player, so I told him, "Why don't you tell me?".

Segev
2017-03-02, 11:55 AM
I'm not sure what the big question here is. I mean, sure, playing somebody cross isn't fun all the time, but it can be. I mean, there's a class in D&D with a feature built around being particularly cross during combat. The barbarian is a fairly popular class, too.

Honest Tiefling
2017-03-02, 01:24 PM
It's saved our butts a few times too. I don't have to make Willpower saves at increased DC whenever the barmaids try to flatter the party into paying more for food and drink, or when a scantily clad priestess was using doe eyes while attempting to steal the McGuffin we had just retrieved.

A smart DM would have a duo of a scantily clad priestess and her bodyguard with chiseled abs you can grate cheese off of. It's actually worked with quite a few female PCs (Some also played by females, some not).

Segev
2017-03-02, 01:58 PM
A smart DM would have a duo of a scantily clad priestess and her bodyguard with chiseled abs you can grate cheese off of. It's actually worked with quite a few female PCs (Some also played by females, some not).

So... he's an animated object that's a stone cheese grater? I didn't know female PCs liked kitchen gadgets that much...

Honest Tiefling
2017-03-02, 02:11 PM
So... he's an animated object that's a stone cheese grater? I didn't know female PCs liked kitchen gadgets that much...

Try saying that around some women with d4s on their hands...

8BitNinja
2017-03-02, 09:47 PM
I'm not sure what the big question here is. I mean, sure, playing somebody cross isn't fun all the time, but it can be. I mean, there's a class in D&D with a feature built around being particularly cross during combat. The barbarian is a fairly popular class, too.

In that case, I cross play every time the Tomb of Horrors gets pulled out.

neonchameleon
2017-03-03, 08:34 AM
First, I'm more like a human woman than I am an elf. Why not ask me what the appeal of playing an elf is?

Second when I RP it's to be someone else. Why should I restrict that to men? It's interesting to try to put yourself in the shoes of another - indeed it's a big part of the fun of roleplaying. And if those shoes happen to be stilettos I could never walk in IRL or ballet slippers that's still part of the fun. And changing things I find adds layers to my character as I need to think about things while some concepts work better with one gender than the other.

Third I've been one of the players at the table when the following happened (and heard yet another account of the same phenomenon from someone else in real life):

I'm transgender.

Playing female characters in D&D is a way to be my real self, as a girl. I don't care if the people across the table see a guy sitting there. Roleplaying is a great outlet when you can't share that side of yourself in public.
All the this. I'm a trans woman too, and "cross" playing was one of the first steps towards figuring that out for myself. I started playing mostly men, because I was a "guy." And then I played a woman character, and it fit so much better, and I didn't know why.

So then I made a rule for myself - I would alternate every character I made between being man and a woman, to "keep it even." But then I realized I was resenting all the male characters I played, because they were really just getting in the way of the characters I wanted to play.

And eventually, along with all the other things going on in my life, I finally was able to realize why that was the case. If I hadn't had that chance, if DMs and GMs had told me I couldn't "cross-play" because it was weird, I would be in horrible shape today.

For some people it's trying out new things. For others it's telling different stories. For some of us, it can save our lives. Literally. So please, don't knock it.
And one thing I don't want to happen is for GMs or players to think that cross-playing is something that's weird and shouldn't be done - RPGs can be a useful tool here. If I play a female character in some games that makes it less unusual when someone has an actual need to play characters that don't match the gender they present as.

Thajocoth
2017-03-06, 10:54 AM
In MMOs, they've found in studies that crossplaying is very common in part because a female character is likely to receive more help from other players. Men tend to like this boost, as it makes things a little easier, while women who're very used to receiving more help offline, tend to like being left alone more, which a male character allows for. It was years ago when I read this study, so I don't have a link for you, but the study was done with World of Warcraft when it was at the height of its popularity.

More personally, I've used this sort of thing to try to better understand other perspectives than my own. (Other opinions too.)

Draconi Redfir
2017-03-06, 11:00 AM
personally it's kind of a "sepperation from the author" type thing. The less the character has in common with me, the less likely the character is to just wind up as a bad self-insert. And Sex... that's a pretty big difference to work with.

As a result, any time i make a male character, he winds up just kind of being an avatar for my own thoughts and opinions, it's very hard to give him his own desires or character that i don't already innately share.

When i make a female character however, she actually grows on her own, the sepperation i have with her means that i'm able to play her as her own unique person, she can have hopes, dreams, and knowledge i don't have, she can have spunk and personality, where all my male characters are just really bland. Female characters just have more CHARACTER for me yaknow?

SaintRidley
2017-03-06, 11:07 AM
If given the opportunity, I play a changeling every time. Who needs to be tied down to a single gender? Not I.

Gilda
2017-03-06, 01:02 PM
Shrug. I mostly DM, and my setting is Earth in mythic times, so the idea of having a roleplaying comfort zone when it comes to gender or ethics or anything else is out the window. I have to switch from generically helpful peasant women to a sexual predator centaur to Koschei the Deathless on a moment's notice.