Intepretation of Ability-Increasing Books

[Aldarin]

Hey guys, Aldarin here. I came into a bit of a conflict with the players I'm DMing for. My question is this: With a Manual or other book that increases ability score and maximums by 2, can one make their stats go above 30?
On one hand, we have the manuals, that state that 'your x score is increased by 2, as is your maximum for that score.' The player I DM for, a Wood-Elf Druid with 6500 years left in him, claimed that that meant that he could make his score as high as he wanted if he used the manual enough times.
On the other hand, we have the PHB, which says that 'monsters and some divine beings can have scores as high as 30'. It looks like that passage puts a hard cap on stats at 30, but I'm unsure.

Let me know what your view is.

Thanks!

[Naanomi]

Can take above racial caps (above 20 or 24 for level 20 barbarians) but not above system caps (not above 30)

[Aldarin]

Can take above racial caps (above 20 or 25 for level 20 barbarians) but not above system caps (not above 30)

Okay, that's what I thought. What passage is that in? (Sorry, just to show the players)

[Naanomi]

Okay, that's what I thought. What passage is that in? (Sorry, just to show the players)
It's inferred more than anything. Note that there is no chart showing what stat bonuses above 30 would even be.

[Nifft]

It's inferred more than anything. Note that there is no chart showing what stat bonuses above 30 would even be.

The buffer wraps around, and the bonus is -6.

[Arial Black]

Are you letting the same PC read the same book over and over again?

[agnos]

If a player starts with a Tome/Manuel, why would they ever go adventuring? They'd find a hidey-hole and stay there, slowly selling reading prices. There's almost no reason to ever leave unless it's stolen. Besides, seems extra cheesy; I'm 2600 years old just to explain why I don't put any points into X score and yet have a 30 in it.

[Monavic]

I feel like 30 is the implied hard cap on stats. The players guide says an elf can live up to 750 years so not sure why that pc has lived almost ten times as long, guess he could be in a setting where elves live forever. Even at 750 it is a long time to survive as an adventurer and keep the book the whole time. Overall it feels contrived just to have a op character.

[Aldarin]

I feel like 30 is the implied hard cap on stats. The players guide says an elf can live up to 750 years so not sure why that pc has lived almost ten times as long, guess he could be in a setting where elves live forever. Even at 750 it is a long time to survive as an adventurer and keep the book the whole time. Overall it feels contrived just to have a op character.

That was largely my reasoning. He's living to 7500 because he's a Druid, and ages 1 year every 10.

[Asmotherion]

If I remember correctly, it is not written directly anywere, but it's strongly implied that the system has a hard cap of 30 on all ability scores. Either way, the system works that way, and as a DM you can enforce it, so no problems there.

Even if it's not said directly, the game was obviously designed under that assumption, and it works greatly. So, yes. There is a Hard Cap at 30.

[RSP]

So the PC is already an 18th lvl Druid? That's when Timeless Body kicks in.

To the point: if you're allowing the campaign to fast forward every century so the PC can read the book again, then, yes, the PC can keep upping their stat. Obviously this is up to you, the DM, to allow that fast forward or not.

If they're not already an 18th level Druid, they'd die of natural causes before getting to max out.

[Bahamut7]

As a player hoping to find some of these in my current campaign, I have read the item description a few times. You need to remember that each time the tome or manual is used, it loses its magic for 100 years. The game doesn't account for long living races and there is nothing saying that these are rare and the character would have to have traveled and searched everywhere to locate the items meaning he could never get it over 30. You can also reason that since the tome and manual do not imply different teachings that they are a one time use per character, even if they can locate more than one.

You as a DM have to decide how these items work in your campaign. Though I agree with others, the bounded accuracy of this system caps stats at 30. Of course, if they are playing a strict druid and do not have access to Unarmored Defense, then you can still hit them quite easily and eventually drop them.

[SharkForce]

if you absolutely need a rule, then simply point out that there is no modifier (not positive, not negative, not zero, just doesn't exist) for any number above 30 or lower than 1. he can feel free to go up to 32 if he really wants. but he'll go from having a +10 modifier to having a nonexistent modifier... and who knows what that will do (it is at this point that you should smile evilly. if you cannot smile evilly, then you need to practice it... that's an important DM skill :smallamused:

[DivisibleByZero]

Why are you letting him read the book (and gain its benefits) more than once?
That isn't the system's fault, that's the DM's fault.

[gfishfunk]

The issue is a non-issue based on facts, as others have pointed out.

Each manual can be read once and then loses the ability to grant anyone a stat increase. Similarly, once you drink a healing potion, its gone. You cannot re-drink it over and over again.

[DivisibleByZero]

The issue is a non-issue based on facts, as others have pointed out.

Each manual can be read once and then loses the ability to grant anyone a stat increase. Similarly, once you drink a healing potion, its gone. You cannot re-drink it over and over again.

And even if he were to hypothetically spend his however-many-thousand years searching for multiple books, it could be argued that the intent is for the book to only work once per character per stat.
This isn't 3e where there are different levels of the books. This is 5e, and there is but a single book.