Intelligent Item Characters

[lbuttitta]

How would you go about making an intelligent item as a PC? Are there any existing rules for it, and if not, how would you do that?
There are a number of issues that I'm unsure about:
1) How would I handle WBL?
2) What would the save rules be? Would the system be like that of a construct or undead which lacks a Con score?
3) How would BAB work?
4) Can I be my own item familiar? :smalltongue:

If this isn't possible, then my next character will be an illumian truenamer/Perform (oratory) bard. :smalleek: So... please help me come up with ideas.

[John Longarrow]

I've seen this done once in a game. Character used psionics. That let the "Character" control a follower that wore them.

In game its basically the same as having a regular character except
1) You can't use physical actions because you are an object
2) Most things are not going to target you because your an object
3) If who ever is carrying you drops you your kinda messed up because your an object
4) Your entirely dependent on others to do things because your an object

If you like the whole "I have two characters to run but if the weaker gets fried I'm also toast" then go for it. If you don't want to discover that your character is out of the game because their "follower" blew a swim check and drowned... well...

For what you can do talk to the DM. WBL should work out the same but you have to put gear on who ever is carrying you around. How the party splits treasure is up to the party, as normal.

For saves, your an object. Check what does/doesn't affect an object. Also talk to your DM about what would/wound't affect you since your an object. Also ask your DM about your ability to sense your surroundings. Objects in and of themselves can't tell what is around them.

Personally I wouldn't let this into my game, but that's because the characters are supposed to be protagonists in the story not props. :D

[Vizzerdrix]

Id play a Fiend of Possesion and just stay in an item. Then, if you do get dropped down a hole, you can at least pull yourself out.

[ShurikVch]

How about the Steelsteal (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20030618a) power?

[weckar]

Hmmm I wonder how long you could fool the rest of the party that you are the bearer rather than the item...

It is of course rather moot if you are playing an object that is automobile... something akin to a psicrystal with character levels, I suppose.

[JyP]

There's a french RPG, Bloodlust, where PC are intelligent weapons controlling wielders - and they pass from wielder to wielder as these weapons are highly sought after.

I tried to simulate this in D&D 3.5 during one competition but could not submit - here would be what I have done :

* main idea is to play an intelligent weapon with a massive Ego, so it can impress its will to most wielders.
* I use Weapon of Legacy rules, so the weapon evolve over time... with the level of the wielder

Level 6 : +1 weapon, intelligent legacy (int 16, cha 16) = Ego 9
Level 8 : +2 weapon = Ego 10
Level 10 : charm person 5/day
Level 11 : intelligent legacy, major (int 18, Cha 18) = Ego 15
Level 12 : +3 weapon = Ego 16
Level 14 : +4 weapon = Ego 17
Level 16 : +5 weapon = Ego 18
Level 17 : +7 weapon = Ego 24
Level 18 : +8 weapon = Ego 25
Level 19 : +9 weapon = Ego 26
Level 20 : +10 weapon = Ego 27

item of legacy personal costs :
-1 attack at levels 6, 12, 18 (better use the legacy weapon over any other weapon)
-1 will save at levels 7,9,15,20 (part of design, as there will be less resistance from wielder against the weapon's Ego)
-2 hp x 5 levels (an amulet of health (+2) is enough to overcome this)

=> you can change wielders frequently, as long as they bear the 'curse' of the weapon (item of legacy personal costs). One way to do it would be to use a Factotum class to simulate all wielders.

there's a few rough points to go over, to go with the legacy items rules :

* main problem is that we start at level 6
* Ego is low until level 11 (or level 10 the charm person)
* the wielder must find the item's history to guess the ritual. Maybe the intelligent weapon can say it as soons as a potential wielder touch it.
* to unlock powers you must do a ritual... let's say that it would be trial by enemy, slaying any creature with the weapon is enough.

Edit : talking about WBL...

let's say that you use the standard rules - to have a +2 intelligent weapon (int 18, Cha 18) with charm person 5/day = Ego 15. It means at least 22,000 gp to substract to WBL.

if we use legacy item rules :
your DM has to make a ruling, because legacy items vs WBL was never covered. My feeling is that all game mechanics which grant magic items, be it legacy items, feats or classes, are outside WBL costs - a 12th level SoulKnife does not have to count its +3 mindblade as part of his WBL for example.

in this case, legacy items shine, because their only cost on WBL are the basic item (+1 weapon) and the ritual costs. So 2,000 gp at 1st level, +1,500 at 5th level, 13,000 at 11th level and 40,000 at 17th level.

[lbuttitta]

if we use legacy item rules :
your DM has to make a ruling, because legacy items vs WBL was never covered. My feeling is that all game mechanics which grant magic items, be it legacy items, feats or classes, are outside WBL costs - a 12th level SoulKnife does not have to count its +3 mindblade as part of his WBL for example.

in this case, legacy items shine, because their only cost on WBL are the basic item (+1 weapon) and the ritual costs. So 2,000 gp at 1st level, +1,500 at 5th level, 13,000 at 11th level and 40,000 at 17th level.
My question was how my character would gain wealth as it advances, being unable to drink potions, hold wands, etc. Because I would rather the loot that I earn go to me. One thought I had would be to have the party wizard enhance my item as she advances, but I'm currently the one playing the party wizard, so that might not work.
The legacy weapon rules seem interesting, I'll look into them further. Do they have rules for creating your own custom item?

[JyP]

My question was how my character would gain wealth as it advances, being unable to drink potions, hold wands, etc. Because I would rather the loot that I earn go to me. One thought I had would be to have the party wizard enhance my item as she advances, but I'm currently the one playing the party wizard, so that might not work.
The legacy weapon rules seem interesting, I'll look into them further. Do they have rules for creating your own custom item?
yes there are rules to create your own item. It's what I used to create the template from 6th to 20th level above in fact.

As for the item gaining "wealth" as it advances, as far as I see it :
- the weapon should always "hunt" for better wielders - if it encounters a knight with a pristine and shiny armor, and is currently wielded by a nude barbarian - it will soon have a new wielder with better equipment, or be wielded by a barbarian in shiny armor :smallbiggrin:
- the weapon requesting a dedicated sheath which is enchanted again over time : I had designed a sleeve blade scabbard (+2 to +6 Dex, +2 Con) of keen edge. If you can add a curse to add a penalty on Wis, even better :smallwink:
- the weapon requesting specific oils to be cleaned.
- the weapon asking for servants, dedicated to keep it in good shape (and potential new wielders). Maybe a new order of the sword...
- the weapon asking to have sons & daughters, by forging new weapons under its authority... a kind of leadership over other such weapons ^_^


Otherwise, as a weapon does not have "body slots", you could try to houserule, to have some kind of equivalent - but note that legacy items or usual magic items are not able to concentrate a *lot* of magic effects without a great impact on WBL.

One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head => a relic or precious stone in the pommel
One pair of eye lenses or goggles on or over the eyes => some specific leather on the grip
One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck => a specific precious stone or rune on the crossguard
One robe or suit of armor on the body => a specific oil or coating on the blade
One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor) => some specific runes on the rain guard
One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor) => the scabbard
One pair of bracers or bracelets on the arms or wrists => runes & glyphs on the fuller
One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands => runes & glyphs on the edges
One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand) => precious stones at the ends of the crossguard
One pair of boots or shoes on the feet => something on the point.

[weckar]

Hmm being a Kensai of yourself could also alleviate the progression problem...

[lbuttitta]

Having considered all the points you have laid out, I'm probably going to not play an object PC - mainly because

If who ever is carrying you drops you your kinda messed up because your an object
And that could be something of a problem. But thanks for all the suggestions!

[Thurbane]

ideally, you need to be mobile, Like an Animated shield or Dancing weapon.

There's a 3rd party enchantment (I think it's in Arms and Armor 3.5?) that acts like dancing but it's pretty much always on.

Either that or see if the DM would let your item PC have Unseen Servant as one of the powers it can activate.

Intelligent items as PCs is great in theory, but probably needs a ton of home-brewing to make it viable.

[Particle_Man]

I think there is a feat in BoED that lets you burn treasure to enhance a special magic item. Maybe that could be you?

Also, I wonder how this would interact with VoP?

[Gruftzwerg]

Maybe not what you are looking for, but:

Unarmed Kensai who has imbued "morphing" weapon enchantment on his unarmed attacks (his body). Now morph into any medium sized light weapon. And you can even add more abilities, like "flying".
Now you can morph into a light weapon of your choice and start to fly with a speed of 30ft. You are an animated object that follow your own commands and can attack.
If that ain't enough fun, get "sizing" to grow up to colossal size and crush your enemies to death^^.

unarmed Kensai with "morphing, flying & sizing" and you should be rdy to go.

and yeah, the morphing part is very cheese, but what did you expect with this kind of question?^^

edit: just for the fun, maybe add warlock 6 on top of it to get access to "Flee the Scene".
Start as flying weapon and use Flee the Scene to let your afterimage look like you coming out of invisibility and wielding you (as weapon). Now you should have tricked your enemies into thinking that they are fighting an invisible opponent and not someone turned into a flying weapon.

edit2: buy a Dancing Weapon, to double the fun. now your afterimage is TWF^^.

[lbuttitta]

There's a 3rd party enchantment (I think it's in Arms and Armor 3.5?) that acts like dancing but it's pretty much always on.


I think it's called Everdancing, and it's an epic enhancement (+8 bonus), so that might not work.
Unseen Servant, definitely, or maybe Greater Mage Hand from the Spell Compendium.