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jaappleton
2017-02-13, 09:30 AM
Please note, this only applies to spells below 7th level. At that point, I find many spells can be pretty encounter-altering, or outright encounter-ending.

Of course, the amount of spells available per spell level grow slimmer as we go along. There's a ton of lv1 and lv2 spells, and it continuously dwindles as we go upward.

So at first level, there's a bunch of really good spells. And a lot that are good for the whole game. Shield, Absorb Elements, Faerie Fire, Detect Magic, Healing Word, Bless, Shield of Faith, Hex, Hunter's Mark, Mage Armor, etc. That's some good stuff.

Level 2? Well, not quite as good. Obviously the offensive spells get a boost, so I won't include most of them. Alter Self, Blindness/Deafness, Hold Person, Invisibility, Pass Without Trace, Misty Step, Silence, Spiritual Weapon...

Level 3 is where we get a massive boost in offense. After all, martials get a second attack here. In my eyes, 3rd level spells have the best spells available, as far as 'bang for your buck'. Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Fly, Dispel Magic, Counterspell, Animate Dead, Aura of Vitality, Haste, Slow, Fear, Hypnotic Pattern, Remove Curse, Revivify, Spirit Guardians, etc.

Level 4... Really, in my eyes, this is where things taper off. There's some GREAT stuff here, but its few and far between. Greater Invisibility, Polymorph, Wall of Fire, Dimension Door, Death Ward and Banishment. I think level 4 is quite lacking, honestly, especially on the offensive spell front. Ice Storm? I'd rather Fireball. Vitrolic Sphere? Is it worth taking over Lightning Bolt, which is available a level lower?

Level 5 level brings Wall of Force (my favorite spell), Bigby's Hand, Banishing Smite, Cone of Cold (I actually hesitate putting this on here as a GREAT spell), Swift Quiver, Raise Dead, Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Greater Restoration, Destructive Smite, Dispel Evil & Good... IMO this is the most "I HAVE POWER!" spell level. I mean, you can raise the dead, and Destructive Smite is one of the greatest ally-friendly spells in the game.

So, what do you think is the 'worst' spell level? I really dislike level 4 spells, personally. I think it needs a solid Cold damaging spell, and it just seems like it doesn't have the 'oomph' of 3rd level or 5th level spells. It lacks the sense of "I'm doing cool magical stuff over here!". I know there's a couple REALLY, REALLY GREAT spells. Greater Invisibility is one of the best spells of the game. But for the amount of lv4 spells there are, I don't think there's a lot of worthwhile lv4 spells.

MrStabby
2017-02-13, 09:38 AM
At level 4 there are a few less good ones, but I think you missed conjure woodland beings, Evards black tentacles, Otilukes resilient sphere can get an honourable mention (at higher levels there are more ways out for enemies but it is still a solid debuff). If you were to add these in you are getting closer to the other levels.

Also - banishment might be worth noting can be obscene. Both at level 4 and upcast to higher levels. It really does scale well.

DireSickFish
2017-02-13, 09:40 AM
Level 1. There it only one real spell here, and it's name is Shield. Shield is so good it makes almost any other use of those spell slots pointless. There are some niche utility stuff like Feather Fall, and Absorb Elements is good for dealing with dragon breath weapons. All the damage stuff gets outstripped by cantrips eventually. the +5 to AC is just so huge that eventually that's all you use it for. Heck I've used up to 3rd lvl slots on shield before to keep my ass in a fight.

There are other good spells at that level. It's just that Shield outpaces them by a large margin.

This clearly only applies to arcane casters. But we've had people in our group dip just to get Shield on the spell list.

rollingForInit
2017-02-13, 09:52 AM
Level 1.

Sleep can trivialise a lot of encounters prior to level 5. Doesn't scale as well as Shield when you reach higher levels, but for the first five Sleep is a bit overpowered.

Vaz
2017-02-13, 09:55 AM
Aye. Level 1 spells outside of Shield tend to struggle. Warlock spells like Hex Hellish Rebuke and, Armour of Agathys don't tend to fall within this though due to their nigh unique access and intended progression. After using Blade Ward and a 5th level AoA on top of Hex, to deal 82 damage to an enemy in a single turn, followed by a Hellish Rebuke putting another 35 down, they aren't bad spells. But like said, that is because they push uo to 5th level.

Other 1st level spells tend to struggle.

Tanarii
2017-02-13, 10:33 AM
Shield is over-rated. It only lasts for one round, and it's one type of defensive. Don't get me wrong, it really, really, really good AC defense for a round, and that's sometimes fantastic. But it's not the be all and end all it's often touted to be. Generally, I find when its being touted as nothing else compares, it's because several factors are coming in to play: the PCs aren't facing 30+ combat rounds in the average adventuring day, generally far fewer more powerful encounters; tactical positioning / forming a defensive line isn't possible or isn't even thought of; the game is combat-as-sport style of play

Also this question is impossible to answer properly because it doesn't say what class spell list we're looking at. But in 5e I find it's the same as most previous editions ... 2nd level spells are generally underwhelming. Mainly in comparison to 3rd, which are rather overwhelming.

jaappleton
2017-02-13, 10:52 AM
I agree that it's a very broad question, and is dependent quite a bit on the class spell lists.

I am surprised at the people saying Lv1 is subpar. Absorb Elements, Bless, Shield, Shield of Faith, Hex, Hunter's Mark... There's good stuff there. Bless is always a good one. It's saved my table twice now, and I've only been a Cleric for one session!

MrStabby
2017-02-13, 10:59 AM
Shield is awesome, no doubt about it but it does have some scaling issues. As special abilities that need saves/skill checks become more common it falls behind.

I find the biggest issue is counterspell. You really want counterspell but you only get one reaction. If you want to keep your reaction for counterspell open then shield is decidedly less good.

I find level 2 spells tend to do the opposite. Some of them kind of suck as an action and your most powerful spell slot - limiting what else you can cast that day. On the other hand when you have level 7 spells and a level 2 slot is expendable they are superb.

Mirror image is great as it doesn't use concentration - something to make you harder to hit whilst you are concentrating on something like a force cage is fantastic. Misty step is great if you are the one inside the forcecage.

I find level 2 spells are great, round about level 8/9 mark.

Spiderguy24
2017-02-13, 12:47 PM
No love for Mage Armor here? 13 AC + dex mod for 8 hours?

Citan
2017-02-13, 05:41 PM
Shield is over-rated. It only lasts for one round, and it's one type of defensive. Don't get me wrong, it really, really, really good AC defense for a round, and that's sometimes fantastic. But it's not the be all and end all it's often touted to be. Generally, I find when its being touted as nothing else compares, it's because several factors are coming in to play: the PCs aren't facing 30+ combat rounds in the average adventuring day, generally far fewer more powerful encounters; tactical positioning / forming a defensive line isn't possible or isn't even thought of; the game is combat-as-sport style of play

Also this question is impossible to answer properly because it doesn't say what class spell list we're looking at. But in 5e I find it's the same as most previous editions ... 2nd level spells are generally underwhelming. Mainly in comparison to 3rd, which are rather overwhelming.
Agreed. Shield is a great spell, that's for sure, and a true lifesaver for martials and casters alike.
But, good to the point nothing else at first level of spellcasting matters? No way in hell.

Especially at low levels when you get a measly 3-4 1st slots for the day, if I found myself using Shield to save my sorry ass, sure I would be glad I had it, but I certainly wouldn't consider this a "good" use of my slots! Instead I'd be angry against myself for letting myself get exposed to danger that badly in the first place.

If we are talking about "bang for your buck", meaning taking overall benefit (how many people are affected, offense/defense benefit, duration), then by FAR the best are Bless, Bane, Sleep, Magic Missile, Mage Armor, Find Familiar.
- First affects 3 allies offensively and defensively for a whole minute.
- Second helps landing debuffs on a group of enemies, again for a minute.
- Third trivializes encounters on low-level enemies.
- Magic Missile is very low damage, but sure-hit. At low levels this can often mean dispatching enemies in a single round, alone or with just one friend helping.
- Mage Armor, good AC for the whole day.
- Find Familiar, great scout and some other utility for your life (or rather... its life ^^).

Other good contenders are Dissonant Whispers (if many martials), Command (versatile, even 1 round can be enough with a "Fall" order if many martials), Faerie Fire (against invisible), Shield of Faith (when the priority is to survive), Earth Tremor (great with martials), Magic Missile (low damage but sure-hit), Expeditious Retreat (great mobility for 1 mn).

Back on OP topic, honestly, I couldn't say with certainty... In fact, the only one seeing "meh" to me is 8th level, simply because barring Bard and Wizard, each caster has only a fairly limited choice of it and some of them seem a bit underwhelming for me for their level (Sunburst, EarthQuake, Control Weather, Glibness)... I guess I just cannot project how to use them efficiently. ^^

Potato_Priest
2017-02-13, 07:45 PM
Back on OP topic, honestly, I couldn't say with certainty... In fact, the only one seeing "meh" to me is 8th level, simply because barring Bard and Wizard, each caster has only a fairly limited choice of it and some of them seem a bit underwhelming for me for their level (Sunburst, EarthQuake, Control Weather, Glibness)... I guess I just cannot project how to use them efficiently. ^^

Glibness: Cast this as a bard, then counterspell/dispel magic. You'll automatically be able to counter a 9th level spell with a 3rd level slot.

Earthquake: The spell that can insta-destroy castles. I wonder what that could be used for?

Control Weather: Not great, but using extreme cold you can wear down your opponents pretty well, racking up the exhaustion prior to a big fight.

Sunburst: AOE Damage and blinding. Sure, it does less damage than an equivalent wizard spell, but so does flame strike.

condonzack
2017-02-13, 08:39 PM
I'm not that experienced with magic, so I can't speak overall, but as a guy playing paladin I'm pretty fed up with the level 2 spells I've got. Its a really short list, with limited options. Branding Smite and Magic Weapon means dropping Bless (which is silly). Locate object could be useful, maybe. I get Zone of Truth and Lesser restoration from my oath, so the only two spells worth prepping are Aid (which I guess is ok?) and find steed.

I haven't used a 2nd level slot on a spell in ages.

Deathtongue
2017-02-13, 09:23 PM
Please note, this only applies to spells below 7th level. At that point, I find many spells can be pretty encounter-altering, or outright encounter-ending.I know you put a cap at 6th level, but pound-for-pound I think 8th level spells are the worst ones. There are a handful of 8th level spells that are pretty good to have (Holy Aura, Clone, Maze) in the context of dungeon crawling but they lack the OOMPH going from level 8th to 9th or 2nd to 3rd or 6th to 7th. 7th level is when you get the spells that redefine your relationship with the campaign world (Teleport, Plane Shift, Magnificent Mansion, Mirage Arcane, Resurrection, Simulacrum) but 8th... feh. The only thing you get that really changes the playspace is Clone, which makes death from old age a thing of the past. I think it's very telling that both prestige classes and a lot of guides don't feel it's a big deal if your character never gets 8th level spells.

If we're considering spells below 7th level, like in the OP, I'd have to give it to 2nd level spells. There are some standouts in this category that make me feel glad to have (unlike 8th, with Maze being the only really indispensable one) like Phantasmal Force and Suggestion and Pyrotechnics, but the leap from 1st to 2nd level isn't as big as going from nothing to 1st or 2nd to 3rd. 3rd level spells is when parties start to feel elated they have a spellcaster in their corner pocket, what with standouts like Fireball and Hypnotic Pattern and Counterspell/Dispel Magic and Fly and Spirit Guardians and Animate Dead and Water Walk and Mass Healing Word and Clairvoyance and Conjure Animals and a bunch of other spells I'm definitely forgetting.

Dudu
2017-02-13, 10:00 PM
Lvl 1 may not include many tricks for arcane casters, but for a cleric it's sweet enough. Bless, Cure Wounds and Healing Word are all there.

Cleric's lvl 4 spells might be lacking, though. Deathward increases your survivability, which is ok. And there is banishment.
Perhaps lvl 4 is the weakest overall. Dunno, hard to rate for all spell lists at the same time.

RulesJD
2017-02-13, 10:03 PM
Hands down it's level 4 spells.

Following that, level 2 spells.

Citan
2017-02-14, 05:40 AM
Glibness: Cast this as a bard, then counterspell/dispel magic. You'll automatically be able to counter a 9th level spell with a 3rd level slot.

Earthquake: The spell that can insta-destroy castles. I wonder what that could be used for?

Control Weather: Not great, but using extreme cold you can wear down your opponents pretty well, racking up the exhaustion prior to a big fight.

Sunburst: AOE Damage and blinding. Sure, it does less damage than an equivalent wizard spell, but so does flame strike.
Thanks for providing examples. ;)
My frustration with Control Weather is that the actual effects are dependant on DM. For example, if you created a storming blizzard, I as a DM would certainly consider that beyond short range all ranged weapon attacks are made with disadvantage, Sharpshooter or not.
If you were creating an unbearable heat, I would allow that any enemy in heavy metal armor staying more than a few minutes in the environment would start suffering of burns...
Things like that.

But I would perfectly understand that another DM finds this too much or too little...

Glibness on a Bard, isn't that overkill really? You already get 5 (CHA) + 6 (proficiency) + 2 (Jack of all trades) equal 13 so rolling 6 or higher is enough to end a 9th level spell. Not accounting for any external help: Guidance, Lucky, Diviner portent, Bend Luck, another Bard's Bardic Inspiration, racial feature, maybe even by RAW Enhance Ability could work (after all for a Bard Counterspell amount to a Charisma's ability check, and Eagle Splendor provides advantage to it. Sure it require you to know in advance you will encounter a powerful wizard though, so not a good tactic everytime).

Or the fact you could also grab Foresight as your 9th level and be gone with it.

As for social interactions, usually you don't make that many decisive Charisma checks in a single hour, and Bard can use Expertise and Help from others in addition to aforementioned buffs.

So, really, in my view the main thing of Glibness is "being the true word of truth whatever happens", and this seems a bit too situational to me (and it's someone loving social-related spells speaking ^^). ;)

-----
As for lvl 4 spells dislike... Sure, there are a few that seem too situational to be usually taken, but there is a great bunch of good ones!
Compulsion (welcome martial pals), Conjure X (allies with spells), Ice Storm (pummel from afar), Greater Invisibility, Polymorph, Phantasmal Killer, Resilient Sphere, Wall of Fire, Fire Shield...

I agree though that some seem a bit niche or just underwhelming, such as Stoneskin or Staggering Smite, or very DM dependant (Divination, Fabricate)... But you find some of those at every level so...

Tanarii
2017-02-14, 08:49 AM
My frustration with Control Weather is that the actual effects are dependant on DM. For example, if you created a storming blizzard, I as a DM would certainly consider that beyond short range all ranged weapon attacks are made with disadvantage, Sharpshooter or not.
If you were creating an unbearable heat, I would allow that any enemy in heavy metal armor staying more than a few minutes in the environment would start suffering of burns...
Things like that.

But I would perfectly understand that another DM finds this too much or too little...If by DM dependent you mean "do they ignore the rules for weather" DMG p 110 Extreme Cold, Extreme Heat, Strong Wind, and Heavy Precipitation.

So it's perfectly understandable that any DM using RAW would find your house-rule on Extreme Heat too much, since by the DMG it takes an hour to have effect and all it does is give exhaustion, at disadvantage to your Con checks if you are wearing Medium or Heavy Armor. And your strong wind rule isn't enough, since it should apply dis-advantage to all ranged attacks, not just short range. Although personally I really like the modification that it can't be negated. Good one.

edit: The main two uses I've seen control weather put to (not in 5e) are mitigating weather when in the wilderness with no reasonable shelter, and providing cover for a clandestine mission. Basically, it's not a spell for combat use right now / tactical-level use. It's a spell for players that are playing a logistics-oriented game, or a strategic-level game.

SharkForce
2017-02-14, 11:48 AM
Glibness on a Bard, isn't that overkill really? You already get 5 (CHA) + 6 (proficiency) + 2 (Jack of all trades) equal 13 so rolling 6 or higher is enough to end a 9th level spell. Not accounting for any external help: Guidance, Lucky, Diviner portent, Bend Luck, another Bard's Bardic Inspiration, racial feature, maybe even by RAW Enhance Ability could work (after all for a Bard Counterspell amount to a Charisma's ability check, and Eagle Splendor provides advantage to it. Sure it require you to know in advance you will encounter a powerful wizard though, so not a good tactic everytime).

Or the fact you could also grab Foresight as your 9th level and be gone with it.

As for social interactions, usually you don't make that many decisive Charisma checks in a single hour, and Bard can use Expertise and Help from others in addition to aforementioned buffs.

So, really, in my view the main thing of Glibness is "being the true word of truth whatever happens", and this seems a bit too situational to me (and it's someone loving social-related spells speaking ^^). ;)

you don't get proficiency to dispel checks unless you're an abjurer, for one thing.

for another, there's a lot of difference between "i'll probably dispel that" and "i'll definitely dispel that". for some people, a ~25% chance of getting screwed over big time is acceptable. i think those people are crazy. i'll take my 100% chance of safety, thank you very much.

also, the fact that truth-detection spells always detect truth is pretty interesting :)

Dr. Cliché
2017-02-14, 06:07 PM
Does it not depend on class?


I'm not that experienced with magic, so I can't speak overall, but as a guy playing paladin I'm pretty fed up with the level 2 spells I've got. Its a really short list, with limited options. Branding Smite and Magic Weapon means dropping Bless (which is silly). Locate object could be useful, maybe. I get Zone of Truth and Lesser restoration from my oath, so the only two spells worth prepping are Aid (which I guess is ok?) and find steed.

I haven't used a 2nd level slot on a spell in ages.

Just want to second this. So far, I've yet to encounter a situation in which a lv2 spell has been in any way worthwhile.

I guess you could see this as a good thing, as my default smites will be doing 3d8 instead of 2d8. :smallwink:

SharkForce
2017-02-15, 12:05 AM
Does it not depend on class?



Just want to second this. So far, I've yet to encounter a situation in which a lv2 spell has been in any way worthwhile.

I guess you could see this as a good thing, as my default smites will be doing 3d8 instead of 2d8. :smallwink:

level 2 has some pretty solid stuff outside of the paladin list.

web. blur. mirror image. misty step. shatter. snilloc's snowball swarm.

hmmmm... did i say outside of the paladin list? because apparently i basically meant inside the wizard list :P

(but seriously, enhance attribute, silence, suggestion, heat metal, lesser restoration, phantasmal force, hold person, spiritual weapon, flaming sphere, pass without trace, protection from poison, suggestion, spike growth, alter self, invisibility... there's a fair bit of good stuff in level 2. just, not so much for paladins is all).

level 2 spells are pretty solid in 5e.

Potato_Priest
2017-02-15, 12:38 AM
Just want to second this. So far, I've yet to encounter a situation in which a lv2 spell has been in any way worthwhile.

I guess you could see this as a good thing, as my default smites will be doing 3d8 instead of 2d8. :smallwink:

Phantasmal Force can really break an encounter. Suggestion is super powerful if your DM isn't ridiculous about the "reasonable" term, Heat metal really screws over enemy martials, and Enlarge/Reduce is great for grappling. I've also seen spike growth nearly single-handedly win encounters that started a fair distance away in a corridor, and it has incredible tactical uses.

Edit: Have you tried Find Steed? Protection from poison is also a great situational spell.

Cespenar
2017-02-15, 01:31 AM
Is it me or odd levels have more blasting spells and even levels have more versatile spells and buffs?

Potato_Priest
2017-02-15, 01:36 AM
Is it me or odd levels have more blasting spells and even levels have more versatile spells and buffs?

6 breaks with that trend, having a lot of blasting, but otherwise it holds true sorta well. 3 also has some very notable buffs.

SharkForce
2017-02-15, 02:40 AM
2 also has snilloc's snowball swarm and shatter, both of which are fairly respectable nukes. i mean, obviously they're no fireball, but then, what else is?

in contrast, 1 has shield, bless, and heroism some of the stronger buffs in the game in their own way, as well as grease which is fairly versatile. 5 has wall of force and bigby's hand, which are fairly versatile. plus creation, telekinesis, geas, and wall of stone.

i think it's just you. (or, more like fireball and lightning bolt are at level 3, and nothing else really even comes close to them when you're talking nukes... and that's pretty much deliberate).

honestly, most spell levels have some pretty danged good stuff for at least *some* classes. even at level 1, there are some real gems; entangle, bless, bane, faerie fire, sleep (for the first few levels), healing word, protection from evil and good, goodberry, hex, mage armour, armour of agathys, shield, grease, feather fall...

i don't think there really is a "worst" level of spells. level 8 has been mentioned, for example, well, mind blank, feeblemind, antimagic field, holy aura, antipathy/sympathy, demiplane, clone, and maze are all level 8 spells. considering you're only getting one slot per day (and that slot is also competing for lower level spells being upcast), there's more than enough to fill any spell list imo.

Dr. Cliché
2017-02-15, 05:59 AM
Just to be clear, I was talking about lv2 Paladin spells.


Phantasmal Force can really break an encounter.

I've heard this many times but have never actually seen it happen. What does happen is that (assuming the spell even works) you do a pitiful amount of damage and the creature basically ignores whatever illusion you created.


Edit: Have you tried Find Steed? Protection from poison is also a great situational spell.

I have Protection from Poison, but have yet to encounter any poison to use it on.

Find Steed is okay, just not very useful at the moment.

Cespenar
2017-02-15, 06:56 AM
2 also has snilloc's snowball swarm and shatter, both of which are fairly respectable nukes. i mean, obviously they're no fireball, but then, what else is?

in contrast, 1 has shield, bless, and heroism some of the stronger buffs in the game in their own way, as well as grease which is fairly versatile. 5 has wall of force and bigby's hand, which are fairly versatile. plus creation, telekinesis, geas, and wall of stone.

i think it's just you. (or, more like fireball and lightning bolt are at level 3, and nothing else really even comes close to them when you're talking nukes... and that's pretty much deliberate).

I was talking statistics instead of specific counter-examples, but never mind.

DireSickFish
2017-02-15, 10:07 AM
I'd also like to mention that lvl2 has the best healing spell in the game. Prayer of Healing is nuts amount of healing to the whole party. If you have a normal sized group of 3-5 players you can even heal the stray NPC in it. I've found it keeps the party going a lot longer.

This is on top of the spells already mentioned. Heat Metal is nuts damage, Spiritual weapon good use of bonus action, scorching ray is good single target, Misty Step is great battlefield movement.

SharkForce
2017-02-15, 01:48 PM
I was talking statistics instead of specific counter-examples, but never mind.

when you get enough counter-examples, it means you're probably not looking at the right statistics, or you're not looking at the statistics right.

@Dr. Cliché regarding phantasmal force:

the spell varies a lot from DM to DM. the spell is an obvious reference to how certain illusions worked in older versions of D&D, as in, before 3rd edition. where you could make, say, an illusion of a pit, and someone who didn't disbelieve could get stuck in the pit and would rationalize away anything that didn't fit into their reality of the pit actually existing. so for example, a person falls into an illusionary pit. a nearby friend recognizes the pit as an illusion somehow, and pulls the victim out. the victim might think that the friend reached down and pulled them out, or that the friend somehow climbed out of the pit while carrying them. and no amount of the person attempting to walk right through the illusion of the pit will let them escape. attempts to climb the "walls" (which are, of course, nothing more than air) will be rationalized away as the walls being too slippery to climb, or that they simply failed to climb out. a person leaning on an illusion of a wall will perceive themselves as leaning against the wall when they're actually holding themselves upright (and others will also perceive them as leaning against the wall unless they successfully disbelieve). if firing an arrow at someone hiding behind an illusionary object, they would believe that any arrows which pass through the object either went through a small gap, or actually went around, or depending on the object that it punched right through.

and there is in fact room in the phantasmal force spell to interpret it that way.

so it really depends a lot on how your DM rules phantasmal force... basically, a lot of how good phantasmal force is depends on how your DM answers the following question: you make an illusion of animated spiked chains wrapping the target tightly and constricting constantly (for 1d6 psychic damage per round, with the damage type being something the victim shouldn't recognize in basically any interpretation of the spell), and a blindfold around their eyes. what happens next? does the target walk away with no difficulties and justify it as themselves being the greatest escape artist in the world, or does the target struggle with the illusionary chains as though they were real, because their mind believes in the chains so strongly it won't let them break free?

if you place an illusion of a cage around someone, and they attempt to break free, does the DM rule that their hand passes through and they recognize it as fake (which is explicitly against the way the spell works, btw), or that the person thinks they misjudged where the bar was, or that the person felt a real cage and felt that it didn't budge (because a cage wouldn't), etc.

or, to put it another way: does your DM think that this level 2 spell is supposed to do damage so pathetically crappy that it is lower than every single cantrip in the game, for one single round, while requiring concentration and a level 2 spell slot, or does your DM think this spell is actually supposed to do anything at all?

so sure, if your DM wants the spell to suck royally, it sucks. and, quite frankly, that was true even in older editions when illusions had some very explicit rules on how to run them that many DMs ignored. with the wrong DM, the spell is a steaming pile of turds that doesn't even deserve to be a cantrip, let alone a level 2 spell. that said, it should be fairly obvious that the spell is not intended to be worse than a cantrip, so i'd say it should be fairly obvious which end of the spectrum phantasmal force is *supposed* to lean towards (precisely how far along that spectrum it should be is up for debate certainly, but it shouldn't be something that you can just ignore entirely and suffer no consequences, because it's at the same level as spells like web, shatter, hold person, etc).

PanosIs
2017-02-15, 03:35 PM
This might be a bit controversial but the worse spell level is quite clearly the 9th. I mean barring specific plot-relevant spells like Astral Projection, Imprisonment etc. you've got Anyspell (ehm, I meant Wish), a good buff (Foresight), a decent nuke (Meteor Swarm) with the best spells of the level being Shapechange and True Polymorph due to their interactions with the mechanics. Compared to other spell levels 9th doesn't seem quite epic enough. I mean, 8th has saveless banishment for some rounds (Maze), the best save-or-suck spell in the game (Feeblemind), along with stuff like Holy Aura, Demiplane, Control Weather, Mind Blank.

Theodoxus
2017-02-15, 03:38 PM
I'd also like to mention that lvl2 has the best healing spell in the game. Prayer of Healing is nuts amount of healing to the whole party. If you have a normal sized group of 3-5 players you can even heal the stray NPC in it. I've found it keeps the party going a lot longer.

You do know it's a 10 minute cast, right? I only ask because I had to show that to our Life Cleric the first time he wanted to cast it in combat... and if you have 10 minutes to waste on a spell, you probably have another 50 to waste on a short rest... Healing isn't that great important.


At OP - The worst spell level is the one you're not up to yet. When you're a 4th level wizard, 3rd level spells are the worst...