ability damage vs ability penalty?

[sage20500]

How do they stack? If for example you have a creature with 8 str and you give it a -6 str penalty and then it takes 3 str damage, is its str mod effectively -1 or does it have a str mod of 5 and the penalty drops it to 1?

Also do penaltys from dofferent sources stack? Such as a creature gets a -6 str penalty from ray of enfeeblement and then a seperatr source gives it a -3 str penalty. Does it have a -9 str penalty now, or does it effectively only have a -6 str still?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Penalties usually have a clause that prevents them from dropping an ability score below 1. Penalties from different sources stack.

In your example, the creature would start with an effective strength of 2 (8-6), for a strength modifier of -4. Taking 3 more strength damage would reduce their effective strength to 1 (5-6, minimum 1), a modifier of -5. Taking 5 more strength damage would reduce their effective strength to 0 (0, penalty doesn't apply), still a modifier of -5, but now they are also paralyzed, and unable to take physical actions.

[sage20500]

Ok, so condition wise, ability damage and drain is always accounted for first before penaltys are applied?

Wanted to be sure because a friend was looking at trying to build a character that was "non violent" and went about defeating foes by trying to use str, dex, and wis penalties and damage abilities, wanted to find out how effective using both to disable might actually be.

[Crake]

Ok, so condition wise, ability damage and drain is always accounted for first before penaltys are applied?

Wanted to be sure because a friend was looking at trying to build a character that was "non violent" and went about defeating foes by trying to use str, dex, and wis penalties and damage abilities, wanted to find out how effective using both to disable might actually be.

It is worth noting that while 1 strength means a person wearing light clothing can still (barely) move around, someone wearing any sort of armor is likely going to be completely encumbered, resulting in either collapsing under the weight of their gear, or only being able to move 5 ft per round, depending on how heavy their gear is. Taking that into account, dropping someone to 1 str is still often more than enough to disable someone.

[Khedrac]

Ok, so condition wise, ability damage and drain is always accounted for first before penaltys are applied?

Wanted to be sure because a friend was looking at trying to build a character that was "non violent" and went about defeating foes by trying to use str, dex, and wis penalties and damage abilities, wanted to find out how effective using both to disable might actually be.

Correct, penalties are applied to the current ability score.
The current ability score is the ability score reduced by any damage and drain.

[Mordaedil]

It's worth noting that Ability Damage returns over time, while Ability Drain is permanent.

I always thought that was very confusing.

[Fouredged Sword]

It's worth noting that Ability Damage returns over time, while Ability Drain is permanent.

I always thought that was very confusing.

And Ability Burn is a third thing that heals over time but cannot be healed magically.

The order of opperations is

(Ability score-ability damage) = current ability score.

current ability score +- bonuses/penalties = functional ability score.

Do note that not ALL penalties have "cannot reduce the score to zero" clauses. Fell Weaken does not seem to have such a clause.