UA: Warlock

[DracoKnight]

It's not out yet, but I figured I'd get a thread going for when it does drop in a couple of hours.

Something I'm really hoping for is a redo of the Undying Light! :smallbiggrin:

[jaappleton]

I FORGOT IT WAS UA DAY!

So, Draco... Is this our thing? Huge discussions on UA articles? Cuz I dig it. :smallbiggrin:

I'll try to see what I can do about seeing the archetypes early. Usually I can find out the archetypes a bit early.

EDIT: It's 7:30am their time right now. No point in checking things before they're even at the office.

[DracoKnight]

I FORGOT IT WAS UA DAY!

So, Draco... Is this our thing? Huge discussions on UA articles? Cuz I dig it. :smallbiggrin:

I'll try to see what I can do about seeing the archetypes early. Usually I can find out the archetypes a bit early.

EDIT: It's 7:30am their time right now. No point in checking things before they're even at the office.

IT'S UA DAY!

I'm down with this being our thing! UA and discussion about it is one of the highlights of my week! :smallbiggrin:

Sweet, if you can find out, I'll edit them into the title when you do!

[MarcFrey]

It worries me that the typical unearthed arcana link followed by "/warlock" isn't yet locked like it was for Sorcerers last week by this time...

I don't think I can handle another week of waiting for the Warlock UA when I was expecting it a month ago now x.x

[DracoKnight]

It worries me that the typical unearthed arcana link followed by "/warlock" isn't yet locked like it was for Sorcerers last week by this time...

I don't think I can handle another week of waiting for the Warlock UA when I was expecting it a month ago now x.x

They frequently change the link format to keep people from guessing it.

[rooneg]

They frequently change the link format to keep people from guessing it.

The link format usually changes, but the URL for the actual article on their site has been fairly consistent. That said, people were commenting about how going to that URL last week produced different results than other invalid URLs, and thus leaked the fact that it was Sorcerer week, so perhaps they've changed the time they add stuff to their site to avoid leaking info. Or they're doing something other than Warlock (or Wizard, that URL doesn't do anything special). Or they just decided to use a different URL for the article this week. Tune in an hour or two from now and find out for sure on our next episode of "what UA will WotC release this week, if any".

[DracoKnight]

The link format usually changes, but the URL for the actual article on their site has been fairly consistent. That said, people were commenting about how going to that URL last week produced different results than other invalid URLs, and thus leaked the fact that it was Sorcerer week, so perhaps they've changed the time they add stuff to their site to avoid leaking info. Or they're doing something other than Warlock (or Wizard, that URL doesn't do anything special). Or they just decided to use a different URL for the article this week. Tune in an hour or two from now and find out for sure on our next episode of "what UA will WotC release this week, if any".

There was also the time that the Paladin came out via Dragon + :smalltongue:

[Kileonhardt]

I want in on this! As I said in the Sorc UA last week I expect this week to have an UL update, maybe 2-3 new Patrons and hopefully at least 3 new pacts.

[jaappleton]

More the merrier, friend!

I'm hoping for Invocations, Patrons, and Pact Boons. I LOVE the class, but I really don't like Blade, Tome or Chain. I know their appeal, but I am really hoping for something new. I'm hoping Blades get some love, like "Armor of Shadows: If you're a Blade Pact, increase your AC by an additional 2" or something. Something so they aren't quite to MAD.

[Kileonhardt]

More the merrier, friend!

I'm hoping for Invocations, Patrons, and Pact Boons. I LOVE the class, but I really don't like Blade, Tome or Chain. I know their appeal, but I am really hoping for something new. I'm hoping Blades get some love, like "Armor of Shadows: If you're a Blade Pact, increase your AC by an additional 2" or something. Something so they aren't quite to MAD.

Man I'd love new Invocations but I doubt they'll put that much work into Warlock. I'm hoping for things that make me want to actually play pure Warlock instead of multiclassing it.

[Arkhios]

Trying to hold my horses until it's THE time. It's kinda funny, I've never considered warlock to be a class I'd play, but it's still almost as interesting class as paladin.

[DracoKnight]

Trying to hold my horses until it's THE time. It's kinda funny, I've never considered warlock to be a class I'd play, but it's still almost as interesting class as paladin.

'Tis indeed a very interesting class!

[Byke]

Man I'd love new Invocations but I doubt they'll put that much work into Warlock. I'm hoping for things that make me want to actually play pure Warlock instead of multiclassing it.

QFT....but I think it will all be fluff and a nerf to Undying Light Lock.

[Wolfkingleo]

I'm hopping for another kind of pact, at least two patrons and 4 new invocations...

That would suffice me.

Cheers

[Joe the Rat]

I've got one thing I really want to see.

Not gonna say it, don't want to jinx hex it.

[GhorrinRedblade]

I'm starting to get twitchy. It's coming out today, right? No tweets from Mike M. saying otherwise?

[jaappleton]

Huh. I've tried several links, and I'm not even getting the 404 FORBIDDEN page.

I tried Warlock, Warlockwizard (If it got lumped in like Ranger/Rogue), and even Mystic, in case they throw us a curveball.

[DracoKnight]

Huh. I've tried several links, and I'm not even getting the 404 FORBIDDEN page.

I tried Warlock, Warlockwizard (If it got lumped in like Ranger/Rogue), and even Mystic, in case they throw us a curveball.

I sent them a tweet asking if we're getting it today...no response yet.

[tsotate]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/warlock-and-wizard is locked.

[jaappleton]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/warlock-and-wizard is locked.

Nicely done!

[DracoKnight]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/warlock-and-wizard is locked.

Huh...so they are lumping them together. I'm actually kind of surprised :smalltongue:

[Callin]

So that means probably 2 Warlock Options and 1 Wizard Option... Dangit.

[jaappleton]

So that means probably 2 Warlock Options and 1 Wizard Option... Dangit.

I think you're right. But I hope you're wrong.

My guess for Wizard? Chronomancy.

[Kileonhardt]

Huh...so they are lumping them together. I'm actually kind of surprised :smalltongue:

I'm not as surprised as I am disappointed. Granted Wizard doesn't really need much added to it but I feel this might take away from Warlock's stuff.

[Provo]

Hopefully they put a heavier emphasis on the Warlock. Wizard already has so many great options.

[DracoKnight]

Hopefully they put a heavier emphasis on the Warlock. Wizard already has so many great options.

Hear, hear!

[Steampunkette]

I want a curse-focused Pact with Invocation Support.

I think our Patrons are mostly good. Maybe a Necro-Lock would be okay?

But we really need some invocation support for any pact boons. The Chain of Stars got -nothing- and that's just unacceptable with how important invocations are to making the pact boons an important option.

At this point I'm just hitting F5 repeatedly...

[Nicrosil]

If it is a 2/1 warlock/wizard split, I wouldn't be surprised if the wizard subclass was warlock lite, like a school of pact-making, similar to how the rouge of the ranger/rogue article was. Alternatively, we could get healing and eastern wizard subclasses and a pact of the archmage...

[jaappleton]

I want a curse-focused Pact with Invocation Support.

I think our Patrons are mostly good. Maybe a Necro-Lock would be okay?

But we really need some invocation support for any pact boons. The Chain of Stars got -nothing- and that's just unacceptable with how important invocations are to making the pact boons an important option.

At this point I'm just hitting F5 repeatedly...

You and me both!

[Mikey P]

More lumped together options... Well, that's disappointing to say the least. Speaks to a lack of content.

[DracoKnight]

More lumped together options... Well, that's disappointing to say the least. Speaks to a lack of content.

I predict Undying Light: Revised, another Warlock Patron, and a Cursing Wizard.

[Mikey P]

My guess is that you are right on that prediction.

[rooneg]

I predict Undying Light: Revised, another Warlock Patron, and a Cursing Wizard.

I'm hoping for a generic non-school specialized wizard, but I doubt I'll get it.

[Kileonhardt]

I predict Undying Light: Revised, another Warlock Patron, and a Cursing Wizard.

I'd like to see a Darkness Patron to offset Undying Light. Wizard I couldn't care less about.

[jaappleton]

It's up
hexblade
raven queen
wtf

[Joe the Rat]

And we're up!

Hex Blade, Raven Queen, Lore Wizard
Invocations!

[rooneg]

The warlock and the wizard reach new arcane horizons this week. The warlock receives two playtest options for the Otherworldly Patron feature: the Hexblade and the Raven Queen. That class also gets a collection of playtest options for its Eldritch Invocations feature. Meanwhile, the wizard receives a playtest option for the Arcane Tradition feature: Lore Mastery.

Go Get It. (http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/20170213_Wizrd_Wrlck_UAv2_i48nf.pdf)

[jaappleton]

I've read like 5 lines in the Hexblade and I love it. I LOVE IT. CHARISMA FOR ATTACK AND DAMAGE ROLLS WITH 1H WEAPONS
MEDIUM ARMOR
SHIELDS

WHAAAAT

[Kileonhardt]

I've read like 5 lines in the Hexblade and I love it. I LOVE IT. CHARISMA FOR ATTACK AND DAMAGE ROLLS WITH 1H WEAPONS
MEDIUM ARMOR
SHIELDS

WHAAAAT

I haven't read past the proficiencies yet and I'm like "Well Bladelock is a super thing now."

[Steampunkette]

...

I didn't get what I want but I'm so happy I don't even care.

Thank you, WotC!

[GhorrinRedblade]

I've read like 5 lines in the Hexblade and I love it. I LOVE IT. CHARISMA FOR ATTACK AND DAMAGE ROLLS WITH 1H WEAPONS
MEDIUM ARMOR
SHIELDS

WHAAAAT

Hello, beautiful!

(The pact, not you.)

[Kileonhardt]

Aspect of the Moon is going to be my go to. I literally love never having to sleep so I can keep watch all night.

[Callin]

Well that was disappointing..

[DracoKnight]

I've read like 5 lines in the Hexblade and I love it. I LOVE IT. CHARISMA FOR ATTACK AND DAMAGE ROLLS WITH 1H WEAPONS
MEDIUM ARMOR
SHIELDS

WHAAAAT


I haven't read past the proficiencies yet and I'm like "Well Bladelock is a super thing now."

Yes. Yes it is! :smallbiggrin:

[jaappleton]

Best UA yet. The Warlock has received a TON of love. I'm incredibly impressed, I'm outright amazed at this.

[Kileonhardt]

Best UA yet. The Warlock has received a TON of love. I'm incredibly impressed, I'm outright amazed at this.

I'm still going over Invocations slowly because the amount of sheer "YES!" in them has me stunned.

[8wGremlin]

Lore Wizard - change the element of a spell, change the saving throw of a stat, and boost damage at 6th by sacrificing spell slots!

[jaappleton]

Hello, beautiful!

(The pact, not you.)

Let's see what you say after I roll Persuasion :smallwink:

[jaappleton]

I'm still going over Invocations slowly because the amount of sheer "YES!" in them has me stunned.

RIGHT?! There's so much there! It's ridiculous! The sheer amount of love they've shown the Warlock has me stunned.

[Kileonhardt]

RIGHT?! There's so much there! It's ridiculous! The sheer amount of love they've shown the Warlock has me stunned.

I'm loving that they brought about Eldritch Blast and Pact of the Blade options for most Patrons. And the ability to grab Invocations for +1-3 bonus to created Pact weapons? Stellar.

[rooneg]

Lore Wizard - change the element of a spell, change the saving throw of a stat, and boost damage at 6th by sacrificing spell slots!

Nice two level dip for a non-fire dragon sorcerer.

[Vaz]

Hexblade looks awesome. Like seriously awesome; Literally everything I want from it. Medium Armour? Shields? Martial Prof? Cha to Hit and Damage? +Prof to Damage vs single target and 19-20 Crits with Soammed EB?

6th level currently, this puts out d10+7.

Might actually make a Bladelock more powerful.

[DracoKnight]

Best UA yet. The Warlock has received a TON of love. I'm incredibly impressed, I'm outright amazed at this.


I'm still going over Invocations slowly because the amount of sheer "YES!" in them has me stunned.


RIGHT?! There's so much there! It's ridiculous! The sheer amount of love they've shown the Warlock has me stunned.

It's incredible! And I LOVE the Patron-specific Invocations, and all of the absolute love they're showing the Pact of the Blade! I've always said I wouldn't mind giving up more invocations to be good as a gishlock! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

[Joe the Rat]

I haven't read past the proficiencies yet and I'm like "Well Bladelock is a super thing now."

What I'm liking is that you can be a Hexblade without being a Blade Pact. Which feels weird. You are bound to a sentient weapon. But you can't make one. But I still like the option.

So what's it cost to get the Raven Queen's Pact of the Chain... an eye?

The patron/pact specific invocations are a great idea.

(haven't done Lore Wizard yet)
(Still disappointed in no Ur-Priest)

[Callin]

I take back the disappointing comment. Though some of the abilities are so imbalanced.

Hexblade is totally Awesome but the lvl 10 Armor of Hexes is beyond OP.
Raven Queen is cool. SPIRITUAL WEAPON is what I was hoping for on a Warlock.
the Invocations are okay
Loremaster is actually pretty cool

[Kileonhardt]

Nice two level dip for a non-fire dragon sorcerer.

Exactly this. It needed to be a metamagic feature in the Sorc update but oh well, this is great too.

[Rysto]

Am I missing something? What's the Seeker Patron? Previous UA material I haven't heard of before?

The Hexblade, at first glance, appears rather OP, but I haven't done the math on that yet.

[Flashy]

Sheesh, three pages of new invocations? That's WAY more than I would have expected.

[HolyDraconus]

So... if I'm reading lore right.... a magic missile does 3d4+3+6d10... for 2 slots...something doesn't seem right with that.

[Kileonhardt]

So... if I'm reading lore right.... a magic missile does 3d4+3+6d10... for 2 slots...something doesn't seem right with that.

You're reading it wrong. It only gets the +2d10 once, and only on the turn the spell is cast even if the spell lasts more rounds.

Edit: Unless you're targeting 3 things with the missiles, which at that level would be 1d4+1+2d10 per target.

[jaappleton]

Am I missing something? What's the Seeker Patron? Previous UA material I haven't heard of before?

The Hexblade, at first glance, appears rather OP, but I haven't done the math on that yet.

The Faithful article had Theurge Wizard and Seeker Patron.

[jaappleton]

So Warlocks essentially get Divine Smite now with some Warlock pacts. Palalocks are going to be INSANE now. Divine Smite and (essentially) Warlock Smite?

[Rysto]

The Faithful article had Theurge Wizard and Seeker Patron.

That's starting to ring a very faint bell. Something about a weapon that's a chain of stars?

[DracoKnight]

You're reading it wrong. It only gets the +2d10 once, and only on the turn the spell is cast even if the spell lasts more rounds.

Edit: Unless you're targeting 3 things with the missiles, which at that level would be 1d4+4+2d10 per target.

Magic missile is odd, in that you only roll damage once, and it applies to all missiles. So you roll 1d4+1+2d10, and that's the damage of all three of your magic missiles.

[Flashy]

Huh, there are invocations which require other UA warlock patrons (specifically the Seeker). I wonder if that means they're still actively working on that one.

[Kileonhardt]

Seriously super excited that my Warlock dips for darkvision are now going to take me Archfey for Aspect of the Moon as well.

[JumboWheat01]

So we have Improved Bladelock, Improved Chainlock, all sorts of tasty invocations to make your patron of choice more flavorful, and a wizard that would make Elminster giddy.

Yeah, I call this a very successful Unearthed Arcana. Might have to consider a Raven Queen Warlock someday.

[DracoKnight]

So we have Improved Bladelock, Improved Chainlock, all sorts of tasty invocations to make your patron of choice more flavorful, and a wizard that would make Elminster giddy.

Yeah, I call this a very successful Unearthed Arcana. Might have to consider a Raven Queen Warlock someday.

I like that the two other pacts got the support they needed to be on par with Tome :smallbiggrin:

[Kileonhardt]

Magic missile is odd, in that you only roll damage once, and it applies to all missiles. So you roll 1d4+1+2d10, and that's the damage of all three of your magic missiles.

It reads more as after you roll damage on a target, roll an additional 2d10 force against that target. No doubt they thought of MM and didn't want people getting 6d10 for two slots.

[HolyDraconus]

You're reading it wrong. It only gets the +2d10 once, and only on the turn the spell is cast even if the spell lasts more rounds.

Edit: Unless you're targeting 3 things with the missiles, which at that level would be 1d4+4+2d10 per target.

I don't know. You roll damage for each missile and the ability says when you roll damage. I can see the verbiage being cleaned up there but as is I won't be surprised if a player reads that exactly like I just worded it. Although the free ability to make fireball do force damage is stupid, but it makes them not need to create more elemental varieties. Screams lazy imo

[jaappleton]

Just in case there's confusion:

Lore Wizard
Alchemical Casting

You can expend ONE slot only. So you can't expend multiple 1st level slots to bump up its damage.

[Kileonhardt]

I don't know. You roll damage for each missile and the ability says when you roll damage. I can see the verbiage being cleaned up there but as is I won't be surprised if a player reads that exactly like I just worded it. Although the free ability to make fireball do force damage is stupid, but it makes them not need to create more elemental varieties. Screams lazy imo

Really it means level 2 comes along and you now do pure Force damage unless you have in game knowledge of something having a weakness against another type.

[Nicrosil]

I love it. Armor of Hexes is insane though. Giving your hexed target disadvantage to hit you, or adding your charisma to AC against the cursed creature's attacks, or even a limited mirror image seems more sane than a straight 50% miss chance.

[jaappleton]

Well, Lore Wizards are now the absolute ultimate thematic casters.

"All my spells are Cold damage."
"Well, what're you going to do for a 3rd level cold spell?"
"....Iceball."
"There's no Iceball spell."
"THERE IS WHEN I'M AROUND!"

[Kileonhardt]

Well, Lore Wizards are now the absolute ultimate thematic casters.

"All my spells are Cold damage."
"Well, what're you going to do for a 3rd level cold spell?"
"....Iceball."
"There's no Iceball spell."
"THERE IS WHEN I'M AROUND!"

Forcing Ray, Forceball, Flight?(Blight), Force of Cold, force force force damage.

[Callin]

I love it. Armor of Hexes is insane though. Giving your hexed target disadvantage to hit you, or adding your charisma to AC against the cursed creature's attacks, or even a limited mirror image seems more sane than a straight 50% miss chance.

Yea I would give it Charisma Mod per Long Rest to give Disadvantage. This can be done after you figure out what they rolled on their Die to hit you.

[Nicrosil]

Well, Lore Wizards are now the absolute ultimate thematic casters.

"All my spells are Cold damage."
"Well, what're you going to do for a 3rd level cold spell?"
"....Iceball."
"There's no Iceball spell."
"THERE IS WHEN I'M AROUND!"

Actually, letting casters choose the damage type has been a house rule at my table for a while. It's pretty neat, until they get Icebolt, Icebolt, and Icebolt...

[MarcFrey]

I'm dying. This is probably the best Unearthed Arcana I've read so far. My lord.

Hexblade is beautiful and everything I wanted for my current warlock. My DM is fairly sure I can switch out patron. And additional Invocations all look amazing so far and I see a lot of love for the blade pact <3

[jaappleton]

Hexblade is undoubtedly my favorite Patron now. I mean, it's got medium armor proficiency, shield proficiency, Hexblade's curse (Which doesn't seem limited to Melee attacks), and a pretty good spell list. It also frees you up from needing the Armor of Shadows invocation, and lets you focus more on a Charisma / Constitution build.

It offers a TON.

Though all the new invocations for the older Patrons are so damn amazing.

[Byke]

I will eat my words...I was wrong I actually like this UA.

**EDIT Did they just give Wizard's limited Meta-magic? ****

[Aett_Thorn]

Also, Lore Wizards can now hit you with a fireball from a mile away. Enjoy!

[Shining Wrath]

Trying to hold my horses until it's THE time. It's kinda funny, I've never considered warlock to be a class I'd play, but it's still almost as interesting class as paladin.

I haven't played one yet, but they are flavorful, and I've got a Chainlock villain planned. He's rich, and stupid, and charismatic as hell (obviously).


You're reading it wrong. It only gets the +2d10 once, and only on the turn the spell is cast even if the spell lasts more rounds.

Edit: Unless you're targeting 3 things with the missiles, which at that level would be 1d4+1+2d10 per target.


Magic missile is odd, in that you only roll damage once, and it applies to all missiles. So you roll 1d4+1+2d10, and that's the damage of all three of your magic missiles.

This will obviously need to be fixed; same for Scorching Ray and Eldritch Blast (if obtained from, say, Magic Initiate). Max of 2D10 per spell cast, no matter how many missiles or rays or what have you are generated. And although it isn't quite as much proportionately, no, you don't get to add 2d10 to each of your meteors in a Meteor Swarm.

[Kileonhardt]

I will eat my words...I was wrong I actually like this UA.

I was the first one to say I doubt they'd put the effort into Invocations. I'll join you in eating my words.

[Belac93]

HOLY CRAP!

Now that that's out of the way:

Hexblade is awesome. I love the buff for pact of the blade.

The Raven Queen patron is also amazing, nice flavor, although the mechanics seem very utility-focused.

SO MANY INVOCATIONS. I love it! And it promotes unusual combinations, such as archfey blade pact (longbow, anyone?). I'm a little worried, however, that people playing a bladelock will feel an invocation tax, but I guess that's really the only way they could do this. However, now you will probably want your patron-specific weapon, thirsting blade, lifedrinker, and the one that makes it a +1/+2/+3 weapon. That is fully half your total invocations.

Relentless hex is a cool invocation.

Lore master is an extreme boost in versatility. Let's see... fighting against animals, let's say you cast a level 3 fireball. It deals 8d6+2d10 damage, and they have to roll at least a 19 to save against it (because you change the save to intelligence). Get rid of that 2d10 and expend a 3rd level slot instead, they cannot succeed on the save. And you could make it force damage, if you like.

Seems amazing.

But serious, I damn love the new Warlock stuff.

[ZiddyT]

I mean, this is great overall, but I've got to nitpick one big thing. Why does the hexblade pact weapon invocation create a weapon that is invalid for their Hex Warrior feature?

[Arkhios]

Grumble grumble lazy MM & JC.... OHMYF**KINGGODIMAYHAVEJIZZEDMYPANTS! LORE MASTER!!

[Vaz]

Bladelock with Rod of the Pact Keeper, Armour of Hexes, Dex 14, Medium Armour, Shield, Armour of Agathys, Shield Known Mirror Image

A rather hilarious tank at 11th level. Sure, you burn EVERYTHING, but you have an AC of 19 (24), 50% Miss.Chance and diminishing 75/66/50% miss chance, and you throw 2 Attacks turn with Cha damage, critting on a 19-20.

Ooh.wee. Yas please.

Also really want to try on an Sea Sorcerer/Ice Queen Warlock pushing back 45ft and slowing by 20ft at 5th level. Owzat, BFC!?!

[Joe the Rat]

Forcing Ray, Forceball, Flight?(Blight), Force of Cold, force force force damage.
...which requires a Charisma saving throw, for some reason. Oh Bhaal they just shut down evasion.

Lore Wizard is the Metamagic Wizard.
I also double checked - it's any slotted spell, so that 2 level dip will be good on dragon sorcerers, phoenix sorcerers, undying light warlocks, tempest clerics...

[Picklechip]

I mean, this is great overall, but I've got to nitpick one big thing. Why does the hexblade pact weapon invocation create a weapon that is invalid for their Hex Warrior feature?

I assume you're referring to the Curse Bringer invo, which also requires Pact of the Blade: per PHB 107 for Pact of the Blade - you're proficient with any weapon created via the pact. It's just that Hexblade is also proficient with weapons not summoned via the pact as well.

[Byke]

...which requires a Charisma saving throw, for some reason. Oh Bhaal they just shut down evasion.

Lore Wizard is the Metamagic Wizard.
I also double checked - it's any slotted spell, so that 2 level dip will be good on dragon sorcerers, phoenix sorcerers, undying light warlocks, tempest clerics...

Yah I'm kind of in shock that they gave Wizard Meta-magic....

An additional 1st-level spell slot canincrease
the spell’s raw force. If you roll damage for the
spell when you cast it, increase the damage
against every target by 2d10 force damage. If the
spell can deal damage on more than one turn, it
deals this extra force damage only on the turn

Did MM just become one of the best AOE in the game?

[Kileonhardt]

...which requires a Charisma saving throw, for some reason. Oh Bhaal they just shut down evasion.

Lore Wizard is the Metamagic Wizard.
I also double checked - it's any slotted spell, so that 2 level dip will be good on dragon sorcerers, phoenix sorcerers, undying light warlocks, tempest clerics...

Charisma or Int saving throw, both destroy numerous numbers of mobs.

[Zaq]

I assume you're referring to the Curse Bringer invo, which also requires Pact of the Blade: per PHB 107 for Pact of the Blade - you're proficient with any weapon created via the pact. It's just that Hexblade is also proficient with weapons not summoned via the pact as well.

Greatswords are two-handed. Hex Warrior only lets you use CHA to hit and damage with weapons that aren't two-handed.

[Idkwhatmyscreen]

Enough Variety for Warlocks to not default into Eldritch Blast Machines and more options for Eldritch Blast Machines, that is what I would call a success

[ZiddyT]

I assume you're referring to the Curse Bringer invo, which also requires Pact of the Blade: per PHB 107 for Pact of the Blade - you're proficient with any weapon created via the pact. It's just that Hexblade is also proficient with weapons not summoned via the pact as well.

I am referring to that, but not in regards to proficiency. I mean the Hex Warrior feature, which only works with weapons that aren't two-handed (while Curse Bringer creates a Greatsword.)

[jaappleton]

...which requires a Charisma saving throw, for some reason. Oh Bhaal they just shut down evasion.

Lore Wizard is the Metamagic Wizard.
I also double checked - it's any slotted spell, so that 2 level dip will be good on dragon sorcerers, phoenix sorcerers, undying light warlocks, tempest clerics...

Emphasis mine.

All Unearthed Arcana is created specifically without multiclassing in mind. So expect that to be changed.

I also expect the Lore lv2 feature to be limited to Wizard spells to avoid multiclassing shenanigans... Like Dragon sorcerers, and Undying Light warlocks.

[Joe the Rat]

And here I'm looking at Archfey, Pact of Blade, Moon Bow.
What's that? Ranged smite?
I got your ranged smite right here.

[Maxilian]

Its just me or Hexblades are extremely good, i mean... at low lvls its ok, but it easily get out of hand at lvl 10 and even more at lvl 14, i mean the curse its really strong, but its only once per rest, until lvl 14 comes and says "LOOK AT ME! I'M THE NEW HEX NOW!" (They heard the community when people said that the Hex spell should have been part of the Warlock and not just a spell)

[Kileonhardt]

I'd like to see a Darkness Patron to offset Undying Light. Wizard I couldn't care less about.

I'm glad I got this post out before the UA hit because Raven Queen fits what I wanted to see perfectly.

[dylan101]

I assume you're referring to the Curse Bringer invo, which also requires Pact of the Blade: per PHB 107 for Pact of the Blade - you're proficient with any weapon created via the pact. It's just that Hexblade is also proficient with weapons not summoned via the pact as well.
I think its referring to the fact that a great sword is a two handed weapon. You only get to use your charisma modifier in place of strength or dex if the weapon is not two handed.
So the Great Sword created by the Curse Bringer invo doesn't let you use your charisma modifier, which is part of the point of Hex warrior

[DracoKnight]

I'm glad I got this post out before the UA hit because Raven Queen fits what I wanted to see perfectly.

You called it! :smallbiggrin:

So in a future book, I kinda hope that we get these two Patrons and the Undying Light (renamed to avoid confusion). I am worried that they're gonna kill off the Undying Light though, for two reasons: 1: they retooled the Favored Soul for the Sorcerer, but they didn't bring back the Undying Light for this one. 2) They mention the Seeker Warlock by name and give it an invocation here, but there's no such love for the Undying Light Warlock.

[jaappleton]

Oddly enough, one of the most powerful invocations if Green Lord's gift. That's pretty damn good. Maximized healing? Y'know, something Life Clerics have to wait a damn long time to get?

It doesn't apply to static healing like Lay on Hands, but it's damn good.

[Belac93]

Bladelock with Rod of the Pact Keeper, Armour of Hexes, Dex 14, Medium Armour, Shield, Armour of Agathys, Shield Known Mirror Image

A rather hilarious tank at 11th level. Sure, you burn EVERYTHING, but you have an AC of 19 (24), 50% Miss.Chance and diminishing 75/66/50% miss chance, and you throw 2 Attacks turn with Cha damage, critting on a 19-20.

What about adding Tomb of Levestius? They attack you, BAM! 110 temporary hit points. Sure, you miss out on your attack. So what? Use compelled duel, and they have to attack you. Or block off a 5 foot hallway and watch the fun begin.

[jaappleton]

What about adding Tomb of Levestius? They attack you, BAM! 110 temporary hit points. Sure, you miss out on your attack. So what? Use compelled duel, and they have to attack you. Or block off a 5 foot hallway and watch the fun begin.

You also miss out on your next turn, though. It melts at the end of your next turn. Still, could absolutely be worth it, in the right circumstance.

[jaappleton]

Sorry, DracoKnight..... Hard to still be excited about Phoenix Sorc after seeing this.

[Joe the Rat]

Emphasis mine.

All Unearthed Arcana is created specifically without multiclassing in mind. So expect that to be changed.

I also expect the Lore lv2 feature to be limited to Wizard spells to avoid multiclassing shenanigans... Like Dragon sorcerers, and Undying Light warlocks.Honestly, I don't think it would be that bad as an open option. Level 2/6 lorewiz/ dragon sorc for cha to damage on any slot spell if you tune the elements opens up some options. Undying Light is an issue, but that has more to do with that UA.
Save tuning might be better as a level 6.

[DracoKnight]

Sorry, DracoKnight..... Hard to still be excited about Phoenix Sorc after seeing this.

No worries! I'm still excited for it (because thematics and i had a blast playing one) but I also play in like 6 different games, so I know I'll get to try out these warlocks at some point! :smallbiggrin:

[Kileonhardt]

You also miss out on your next turn, though. It melts at the end of your next turn. Still, could absolutely be worth it, in the right circumstance.

If only it specifically said it would stack with other temp HP then it could be amazing with AoA. As it is it's an okay invocation for keeping yourself alive in a terrible situation.

[Sir cryosin]

A hex blade, stone sorcerer muilticlass can be nasty.

[Joe the Rat]

If only it specifically said it would stack with other temp HP then it could be amazing with AoA. As it is it's an okay invocation for keeping yourself alive in a terrible situation.

I see that as a response to AoA draining. Dole out your last 5/10/15/20/25 points of damage, and you explode in an ablative ice shield for the rest of the damage (plus). It would make an effective blockade, though if you're seriously in harms way, you need someone to drag your butt out of the line of fire.

[MarcFrey]

I think its referring to the fact that a great sword is a two handed weapon. You only get to use your charisma modifier in place of strength or dex if the weapon is not two handed.
So the Great Sword created by the Curse Bringer invo doesn't let you use your charisma modifier, which is part of the point of Hex warrior

Just asked J. Crawford on Twitter and here was his reply:

"@MarcFreyx @mikemearls It's true; the two features don't interact. A great thing to give feedback on in next week's survey."

[Mikey P]

And here I'm looking at Archfey, Pact of Blade, Moon Bow.
What's that? Ranged smite?
I got your ranged smite right here.
As a thrown melee weapon is still a melee weapon attack at range, I believe you can already smite at range. But still!

[Dr. Cliché]

I think this is by far my favourite UA.

One thing that confuses me though - what exactly is a Hexblade's Patron? Or, more accurately, where is their patron?

It says that you've made a pact with a powerful sentient weapon . . . but you don't actually get the weapon? :smallconfused:

It just seems really bizarre to me. Did you pledge yourself to a sword and then just leave it on a table somewhere? Is the weapon okay with that? I mean, it says that the weapons feed on the life of their victims - so wouldn't they want you to use them?

Just seems weird to me.

[pwykersotz]

That Lore Master strikes me as incredibly unbalanced. Altering saves (on a short rest!) in addition to boosting saves in addition to Anyspell. And like people have been saying, changing all elements to Force if desired... This seems to be pure power creep.

[Kileonhardt]

That Lore Master strikes me as incredibly unbalanced. Altering saves (on a short rest!) in addition to boosting saves in addition to Anyspell. And like people have been saying, changing all elements to Force if desired... This seems to be pure power creep.

The save change being once per rest is fine, the damage types really do need to remove Force from the table and it would be fine. Losing a 3rd level spell slot for +2 DC is also fine with how limited it is.

[Joe the Rat]

I think this is by far my favourite UA.

One thing that confuses me though - what exactly is a Hexblade's Patron? Or, more accurately, where is their patron?

It says that you've made a pact with a powerful sentient weapon . . . but you don't actually get the weapon? :smallconfused:

It just seems really bizarre to me. Did you pledge yourself to a sword and then just leave it on a table somewhere? Is the weapon okay with that? I mean, it says that the weapons feed on the life of their victims - so wouldn't they want you to use them?

Just seems weird to me.
It seems like "find your patron weapon" is the default pact/motivation for this patron.

But it get's better than that - you don't even have to be a blade pact. Your patron is Totally-Not-Stormbringer-For-Copyright-Reasons. You throw curses. You go Pact of the Chain for a wisecracking sidekick.
Now, one big drawback to this approach is that you aren't as effective in your stabbing (no extra attack), but all your Hex features play just as well with being a beamspammer as they do as a stabber. And you will be able to wield said weapon when you find it (simple and martial weapon proficiency).

[Rysto]

I've just realized that technically the Hexblade could use a versatile weapon two-handed and get the Hex Warrior benefits. Almost certainly not worth +1 damage per hit for -2AC for not using a shield, but you could do it.

[ZiddyT]

As a thrown melee weapon is still a melee weapon attack at range, I believe you can already smite at range. But still!

Nope. You're attacking with a melee weapon, but you're making a ranged weapon attack. Smite only works with a melee weapon attack.

That's 5e wording for you (the RAI behind thrown weapon and unarmed strikes is generally incredibly asinine and only serves to gimp options that are weak to begin with).

[jaappleton]

I've just realized that technically the Hexblade could use a versatile weapon two-handed and get the Hex Warrior benefits. Almost certainly not worth +1 damage per hit for -2AC for not using a shield, but you could do it.

If your DM lets you use feats like GWM for any 2h weapon (doesn't have to be Heavy)...

[JumboWheat01]

I think this is by far my favourite UA.

One thing that confuses me though - what exactly is a Hexblade's Patron? Or, more accurately, where is their patron?

It says that you've made a pact with a powerful sentient weapon . . . but you don't actually get the weapon? :smallconfused:

It just seems really bizarre to me. Did you pledge yourself to a sword and then just leave it on a table somewhere? Is the weapon okay with that? I mean, it says that the weapons feed on the life of their victims - so wouldn't they want you to use them?

Just seems weird to me.

You pledge yourself to the sword, it gives you one of its little kids and tells you to babysit it while you kill things.

[jaappleton]

Nope. You're attacking with a melee weapon, but you're making a ranged weapon attack. Smite only works with a melee weapon attack.

That's 5e wording for you (the RAI behind thrown weapon and unarmed strikes is generally incredibly asinine and only serves to gimp options that are weak to begin with).

That's where the Moonbow comes in. You don't get to use Smite Spells, like Thunderous Smite, but the +2d8 per spell level still works.

[pwykersotz]

The save change being once per rest is fine, the damage types really do need to remove Force from the table and it would be fine. Losing a 3rd level spell slot for +2 DC is also fine with how limited it is.

Possibly. I never go with my initial impressions, it might work out fine. But this amounts to a literal Schrodinger's Wizard who can target any save with an impossible DC for an off-save. I'm very skeptical.

[DracoKnight]

You pledge yourself to the sword, it gives you one of its little kids and tells you to babysit it while you kill things.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAhahahahahahahaha! :smallbiggrin:

Okay, it's over. I'm going home. You win the thread.

[Dr. Cliché]

You pledge yourself to the sword, it gives you one of its little kids and tells you to babysit it while you kill things.

Okay, so where's the kid? :smalltongue:

[Kileonhardt]

That's where the Moonbow comes in. You don't get to use Smite Spells, like Thunderous Smite, but the +2d8 per spell level still works.

4d8 per rest at level 3 is some really nice bonus damage.

[DracoKnight]

Okay, so where's the kid? :smalltongue:

Your Pact Weapon. :smalltongue:

[DracoKnight]

4d8 per rest at level 3 is some really nice bonus damage.

8d8. It's 2d8 Per spell level.

[Kileonhardt]

8d8. It's 2d8 Per spell level.

You're right, I forgot to write twice but I was thinking it.

[Dr. Cliché]

Your Pact Weapon. :smalltongue:

So, I guess every warlock who takes Pact of the Blade is sworn to a sentient weapon?

Also, what happens if a Hexblade takes the Chain or Book pact instead?

[DracoKnight]

You're right, I forgot to write twice but I was thinking it.

Gotcha. But, yeah, it's nice bonus damage :smallbiggrin:

[DracoKnight]

So, I guess every warlock who takes Pact of the Blade is sworn to a sentient weapon?

Also, what happens if a Hexblade takes the Chain or Book pact instead?

Then I don't know why you're playing a Hexblade, thematically :smalltongue:

[jaappleton]

Gotcha. But, yeah, it's nice bonus damage :smallbiggrin:

Now you can smite as a full caster instead of a halfcaster like Paladin....

.....Wow, this gets crazy.

[JumboWheat01]

So, I guess every warlock who takes Pact of the Blade is sworn to a sentient weapon?

Also, what happens if a Hexblade takes the Chain or Book pact instead?

The little brats are hiding themselves as a familiar or tome. Nobody expects a weapon that doesn't look like a weapon.

[Joe the Rat]

So, I guess every warlock who takes Pact of the Blade is sworn to a sentient weapon?

Also, what happens if a Hexblade takes the Chain or Book pact instead?
You get a familiar, or a copy of Zen and the Art of Sentient Artifact Weapon Maintenance.

...also, just because it's a weapon, doesn't mean it's gung-ho about you using cheap knock-offs.

[DracoKnight]

Now you can smite as a full caster instead of a halfcaster like Paladin....

.....Wow, this gets crazy.

I would (as a DM) restrict it to Pact Magic slots. Your smite comes from your Patron, not from magic you accessed elsewhere.

[Nicrosil]

On the Hexblade Patron, I'm going to say it's the spirit of a long dead hero, come back to help you whippersnapper with his unfinished business. It would explain the shadow hound abilities; your ghostly patron is subtly messing up your foes. Like a combination of Roy's father and grandfather. If you go pact of the blade, that's your patron taking a physical form. Oh! I just realized it's like the spren and Knights Radiant from Stormlight Archive! I love this UA!

[ZiddyT]

I would (as a DM) restrict it to Pact Magic slots. Your smite comes from your Patron, not from magic you accessed elsewhere.

Oh jesus, you're going to start the "warlock is a full caster" argument up in here.


Possibly. I never go with my initial impressions, it might work out fine. But this amounts to a literal Schrodinger's Wizard who can target any save with an impossible DC for an off-save. I'm very skeptical.

Seriously. WOTC gimps favored soul and people still try to claim "Cleric spells? OP!" Even with completely terrible post-level 1 features and 15 spells known.

They give Wizards basically metamagic and insane features that essentially amount to "Yeah, you're a wizard just cast whatever you want, WGAF." On top of everything they can already do (while FS has to sacrifice sorc spells known). No one bats an eye.

I don't mind the power of the lore wizard, but it seems like there's a double standard here.

[jaappleton]

I would (as a DM) restrict it to Pact Magic slots. Your smite comes from your Patron, not from magic you accessed elsewhere.

Right, but even so, those are 5th level slots. And you, as a Warlock, has access to 5th level slots MUCH faster than any Paladin.

So... 9th level Warlock / 2nd level Teachery Paladin. Forget about the Moonbow, pick anything else that gets the +2d8 invocation. Pick a melee one.

Now you're adding a flat +20 with Treachery's Channel Divinity. Which refreshes off short rests, just like a Warlock's pact magic.

[jaappleton]

Oh jesus, you're going to start the "warlock is a full caster" argument up in here.

Mystic Arcanum is the power equivalent of its equal level spell slot. But it's not a spell slot. So it can't be used in this Warlock-smite instance. They can only go up to 5th level spell slots.

[Kileonhardt]

I would (as a DM) restrict it to Pact Magic slots. Your smite comes from your Patron, not from magic you accessed elsewhere.

This would definitely have to be done, otherwise something like Warlock 3 + Bladesinger would get insane.

[DracoKnight]

Oh jesus, you're going to start the "warlock is a full caster" argument up in here.

Sorry - wasn't intended. My gut just says, since a Patron specific weapon it should used Pact Magic slots :smalltongue:


I don't mind the power of the lore wizard, but it seems like there's a double standard here.

Oh, most definitely.

[jaappleton]

Sorry - wasn't intended. My gut just says, since a Patron specific weapon it should used Pact Magic slots :smalltongue:



Oh, most definitely.

They really are WIZARDS of the Coast.

Sorcerer's of the Plains has been put out of business.

[Arkhios]

...it's better be mystic next week, then!

[jaappleton]

...it's better be mystic next week, then!

....I'm not sure. I think we'll see something out of left field.

Unearthed Arcana: Spells.

[Joe the Rat]

Mystic Arcanum is the power equivalent of its equal level spell slot. But it's not a spell slot. So it can't be used in this Warlock-smite instance. They can only go up to 5th level spell slots.
5th level slot for a 10d8 PactSmite... which would take a 9th level slot using Paladin Smite damage progression. I suppose that's the tradeoff for having to use a specific strength-based weapon (which might explain the lack of synergy on the Hexbringer)... or a bow.

[Arkhios]

....I'm not sure. I think we'll see something out of left field.

Unearthed Arcana: Spells.

That I would approve, too!

[DracoKnight]

....I'm not sure. I think we'll see something out of left field.

Unearthed Arcana: Spells.

I would be completely fine with this!

OTOH, i would also like them to start back with Barbarian, and rerelease them with tweaks made due to feed back. And then run through the 12 classes (13 with Artificer) again, accounting for the feedback all of them got.

[Zaq]

I will say that I am pleasantly surprised by a lot of the content here, particularly the invocations. One of my biggest persistent complaints about 5e is that very few characters make meaningful choices upon leveling up after picking their archetype. Casters pick spells, which is nice as far as it goes (though not without its own problems), but beyond that, there's extremely little meaningful customization that can be done as your character grows in power. (This is, in no small part, attributable to the fact that feats are so limited and strangled, which is a discussion for another day.) Invocations are a rare opportunity to actually make a character unique and interesting, so it's nice to actually see them get some support. (I still feel like the warlock class is rather poorly designed overall, but again, that's a discussion for another day.)

Honestly, I'd like to see most or all classes get something akin to invocations. You know, ways of augmenting your existing abilities in ways that not everyone can do, thereby giving, for example, two halfling Thief Rogues (who aren't making actively stupid choices) more than a hair's breadth of difference in their abilities, or two elf Open Hand Monks a bit of uniqueness, or two . . . you get my point. That would go a long way towards making me feel less claustrophobic while "building" a 5e character (not that there's much building to be done under the current rules). But either way, it's nice to see invocations that actually provide a few meaningful (and flavorful!) options.

The article as a whole contains some dysfunctions, of course (such as the fact that there's no way by RAW to stop being merged with your raven after using Soul of the Raven—you have a strict whitelist of actions that you may take, and the action necessary to return to normal isn't on that list), but I do appreciate that they're slowly giving us ways to be less incredibly limited by the restrictive stat system, and I like the variety of effects the invocations offer. (Chronicle of the Raven Queen, in particular, is cooler than many other effects that 5e deigns to allow the players to create.)

[Temperjoke]

*wheels in the mop and bucket, and a cart of various pants for people to change with*

Joking aside, I'm glad the major emphasis was on warlocks for this one, and not wizards, since wizards already have a wide and diverse subclass set. It's interesting that they cannibalized the Shadow Sorcerer a little for the Hexblade's Shadow Hound. As for the Hexblade's Pact if they introduce a method for the sentient weapon to get more powerful, then it would actually line with why you gain more power, you're both "linked" so you both benefit. I also find it interesting that they're still referencing The Seeker Patron, if I recall, it was oriented around planar type travel as well. The warlock Patrons listed here are heavy Shadowfell-linked.

More evidence for a planar-themed sourcebook coming.

[jaappleton]

Whoa. Whoa. Think of this.

A party of two Warlocks.

One Raven Queen, one Archfey.

Raven Queen's Blessing invocation plus Green Lord's Gift.

Oh, that's fun :smallbiggrin:

[Dr. Cliché]

Then I don't know why you're playing a Hexblade, thematically :smalltongue:

You do understand that the Patrons are supposed to be entirely separate from the Pacts? As in, you can use any Pact with any Patron.


The little brats are hiding themselves as a familiar or tome. Nobody expects a weapon that doesn't look like a weapon.


You get a familiar, or a copy of Zen and the Art of Sentient Artifact Weapon Maintenance.

...also, just because it's a weapon, doesn't mean it's gung-ho about you using cheap knock-offs.

So, to put it another way, your patron might as well not exist. You could literally pledge yourself to a sentient washcloth and would receive exactly the same calibre of weapon.

[Joe the Rat]

More evidence for a planar-themed sourcebook coming.
Methinks you are on the money here.

[Kileonhardt]

The article as a whole contains some dysfunctions, of course (such as the fact that there's no way by RAW to stop being merged with your raven after using Soul of the Raven—you have a strict whitelist of actions that you may take, and the action necessary to return to normal isn't on that list), but I do appreciate that they're slowly giving us ways to be less incredibly limited by the restrictive stat system, and I like the variety of effects the invocations offer. (Chronicle of the Raven Queen, in particular, is cooler than many other effects that 5e deigns to allow the players to create.)

The last line of Soul of the Raven says you take an action to return yourself and the raven to normal.

[Mikey P]

Now you can smite as a full caster instead of a halfcaster like Paladin....

.....Wow, this gets crazy.
Nah, a Paladin gets more spell slots to smite with after level 5 than a Hexblade will ever get. Hex-Smites do more damage with bigger slots tho!


I would (as a DM) restrict it to Pact Magic slots. Your smite comes from your Patron, not from magic you accessed elsewhere.

That goes against the grain of 5e's framework so far. Certainly fine to house-rule what you like of course.


Mystic Arcanum is the power equivalent of its equal level spell slot. But it's not a spell slot. So it can't be used in this Warlock-smite instance. They can only go up to 5th level spell slots.

In fairness, Smites don't go past 5d anyway. that level 5 slot gives 10d to the Warlock.

[Kileonhardt]

Whoa. Whoa. Think of this.

A party of two Warlocks.

One Raven Queen, one Archfey.

Raven Queen's Blessing invocation plus Green Lord's Gift.

Oh, that's fun :smallbiggrin:

Green Lord's Gift is just good combined with anything really. Spend hit die? Full HP restored from it. Drink a potion? Max HP restored.

[BRC]

hrmm, I really want to play a hexblade warlock with a 1 level fighter dip for Fighting Style and second wind. Probably starting as Fighter for the heavy armor proficiency and taking either Duelist or duel-wielding, since the Hex blade's Curse applies to each damage role made against the cursed target.

[Dr. Cliché]

hrmm, I really want to play a hexblade warlock with a 1 level fighter dip for Fighting Style and second wind. Probably starting as Fighter for the heavy armor proficiency and taking either Duelist or duel-wielding, since the Hex blade's Curse applies to each damage role made against the cursed target.

Wouldn't the Hexblade's curse be a sufficient replacement for Second Wind?

[JumboWheat01]

So, to put it another way, your patron might as well not exist. You could literally pledge yourself to a sentient washcloth and would receive exactly the same calibre of weapon.

...I would totally play a warlock who's patron is a sentient washcloth. Just think of the comedy.

[Joe the Rat]

Wouldn't the Hexblade's curse be a sufficient replacement for Second Wind?

Indeed. The only reason this isn't insane compared to Fiend is that it's a 1/rest ability.

[DracoKnight]

You do understand that the Patrons are supposed to be entirely separate from the Pacts? As in, you can use any Pact with any Patron.

Yes, I'm not an idiot. This one just thematically flows with PotB. Although, I would allow you to have a Flying Sword (pg. 20 of the MM) as a familiar option if you were a Hexblade.

[Dr. Cliché]

Yes, I'm not an idiot. This one just thematically flows with PotB. Although, I would allow you to have a Flying Sword (pg. 20 of the MM) as a familiar option if you were a Hexblade.

I know PotB is usually going to be the most thematic (though I think you could easily make cases for the other two), but my point is that it shouldn't be required. If a sentient weapon is an integral part of the Hexblade, you shouldn't need a specific, optional ability to get it. :smalltongue:

[Kileonhardt]

Also Gaze of Khirad, great tool for seeing hidden weapons during RP moments. Or you know, perving on people.

[Dr. Cliché]

What do you guys think of the Raven Warlock?

It's definitely very thematic, but also seems a bit lacking. Seems like quite a few features could be replicated with Pact of the Chain.

Am I missing something?

[rbstr]

The Hexblade's Greatsword option makes sense to me. That greatsword is very strong given the Hexblade's curse expands crit range and the sword lets you smite on top of it all...Like yikes, full progression Warlock smiting is hefty stuff.
Some balance can be found by enforcing some MAD limitations on it.

[Kileonhardt]

What do you guys think of the Raven Warlock?

It's definitely very thematic, but also seems a bit lacking. Seems like quite a few features could be replicated with Pact of the Chain.

Am I missing something?

Thematically it's everything I could have ever wanted. In terms of actual ability usage it's a little lacking. Finger of Death once a day as the capstone is pretty pretty bad. Especially in games where you can't have undead minions due to it being "evil."

[tieren]

I know PotB is usually going to be the most thematic (though I think you could easily make cases for the other two), but my point is that it shouldn't be required. If a sentient weapon is an integral part of the Hexblade, you shouldn't need a specific, optional ability to get it. :smalltongue:

I don't think you understand.

You are not the hexblade's master, you are its b*tch.

Think of it the same way as you would the great old one's. It is an extra planar being of vast intelligence and power. It works through you to effect its will on the primaterial. Because it is literally a weapon it gives you some weapon related boons. It does not give itself to you. You are not worthy.

[Maxilian]

Thematically it's everything I could have ever wanted. In terms of actual ability usage it's a little lacking. Finger of Death once a day as the capstone is pretty pretty bad. Especially in games where you can't have undead minions due to it being "evil."

I think Finger of Dead is quite good (for the lvl you get it) and who said you gotta keep the undead? :P

[Temperjoke]

You know, every time I see "Hexblade" I keep thinking Witchblade >.>

[Zaq]

The last line of Soul of the Raven says you take an action to return yourself and the raven to normal.

But it also says that the only actions you may take are "Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Hide, or Search." None of those are "return to normal."

It doesn't even say "you may take an action to return to normal." It just says "as an action, you and the raven return to normal." But you're already barred from taking that action.

Sure, the intent is clear. Doesn't mean it's not dysfunctional.

[Joe the Rat]

I know PotB is usually going to be the most thematic (though I think you could easily make cases for the other two), but my point is that it shouldn't be required. If a sentient weapon is an integral part of the Hexblade, you shouldn't need a specific, optional ability to get it. :smalltongue:

You don't. You need DM buy-in to make it a quest goal. Or break the mold, and it's something that is fueled by the souls of those you kill, but not something meant for mortal hands (or hands at all). A 200-foot tall statue of Halaster takes a lot of juice to start up, you know. You just need to kill enough stuff (and find the keys) before the tarrasque wakes up. I'm rather partial to using Brother Eye on this one.

Now, you won't be as effective a weapon-wielder without the weapon-wielding pact (you are reduced to cleric-level martial competence), but that is a matter of choice - focusing more on the other warlock functions. No new invocations for you, though.

[Dr. Cliché]

I don't think you understand.

You are not the hexblade's master, you are its b*tch.

I never said otherwise.



Think of it the same way as you would the great old one's. It is an extra planar being of vast intelligence and power. It works through you to effect its will on the primaterial. Because it is literally a weapon it gives you some weapon related boons. It does not give itself to you. You are not worthy.

I think you are missing the point. It is a sentient weapon. If it wants to do anything it needs someone to actually wield it.

That someone might be little more than a puppet, but the weapon still needs them. These weapons feed of the essence of their victims. Not the victims of their pawns (who are apparently elsewhere, wielding forks or something) but creatures they actually kill. And, if a sentient sword wants to kill something, it needs someone to swing it.

Hence, it makes no sense for the sword to make a pact with a mortal, but never allow itself to be wielded.

[jaappleton]

Fighter 1 / Hexblade 19
TWF Style
Variant Human: Dual Wielder feat

You'll still get Darkvision from Devil's Sight. You can't use a Shield, but you have +1 AC from the feat, and d8 weapons.

[Oramac]

My thoughts:

Hexblade: Damn! This is cool. I might actually want to play a lock now. I've never really cared for warlocks, but this is pretty damn cool.

My only complaint would be that there's a LOT of stuff vying for the Bonus Action here.

Raven Queen: Also pretty cool. Probably not cool enough for me to want to play it, but it's still cool. Reading through it, I have to wonder if they took any inspiration from Vax'ildan on Critical Role.

Invocations: DAYUM!! Some good **** here. Just a couple that I liked:

Claw of Acamar: So let me get this straight. I can attack with reach and at 9th level deal 10d8 plus weapon damage? Sure, it's only twice per rest, but that's some sick nova damage on top of rooting the baddie in place.

Curse Bringer: Same as Claw, but without reach. Still cool.

Kiss of Mephistopheles: Nifty feature. A max level Fireball twice per rest is pretty sweet.

Gaze of Khirad: Flavorful, and fun.

Mace of Dispater: Same as Claw; no reach, but knocks prone with no save. Pretty damn good, especially if you have a melee heavy party.

Moon Bow: Ranged Claw with radiant damage. Doesn't really make much sense with Pact of the BLADE, but hey, it's still pretty neat.

Path of the Seeker: Requires the Seeker Patron? Did I miss something? There is no Seeker Patron, right?

Lore Master: Now this I like. It's a pseudo-school-less Wizard.

Spell Secrets: Change damage type. Neat, but not super useful unless you have a bunch of red dragons in range of a fireball. Changing a Saving Throw, though? Holy ****, that's good. Can you imagine a Fireball with a Cha save? LMAO! And it's at 2nd level. I foresee a lot of 2-level Lore Wizard dips for this feature.

=================

Overall, this is a surprisingly cool UA. I wasn't really looking forward to it, but I admit, I'm impressed.

[jaappleton]

Thematically it's everything I could have ever wanted. In terms of actual ability usage it's a little lacking. Finger of Death once a day as the capstone is pretty pretty bad. Especially in games where you can't have undead minions due to it being "evil."

Raven Queen despises INTELLIGENT Undead. If its doing your bidding, is it that intelligent?

[jaappleton]

Note that Kiss of Mephistopheles doesn't require you to actually KNOW the Fireball spell. I mean, sure, you're likely to know it anyway, because Fiend grants access to it. But you aren't required to actually have picked it.

[Kileonhardt]

Raven Queen despises INTELLIGENT Undead. If its doing your bidding, is it that intelligent?

I'm not saying the Raven Queen would have a problem with it, but having undead follow you around is generally something you can't do in most campaigns due to other party members and especially NPCs in towns.

[jaappleton]

Grasp of Hadar with Repelling Blast creates a yo-yo like effect. Cue all spells with "whenever a creature enters the area" shenanigans!

[Maxilian]

Hexblade Warlock: Look at my shinny sword that gives me UNLIMITED POWER°!

Evil Wizard: And look at my pets

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h197/Mephibosheth85/rustmonster3_zps2067bcba.jpg

*Warlock Blade dissapears*

Warlock: Hey! Don't leave me like this!

Hexblade: Call me when you're done or in the other life

[DracoKnight]

Grasp of Hadar with Repelling Blast creates a yo-yo like effect. Cue all spells with "whenever a creature enters the area" shenanigans!

Holy Magicks Batman! That's insanely good! I hadn't thought of that.

[Kileonhardt]

Grasp of Hadar with Repelling Blast creates a yo-yo like effect. Cue all spells with "whenever a creature enters the area" shenanigans!

Wall of Fire yoyo. Pull it in, push it out, yay extra damage per turn.

[Joe the Rat]

Undead minions are the same issue for all would-be necromancers. These are the permanently yours type of zombies, though, so you can order them to stay somewhere out of the way and come back however many days/weeks later.

Note that Kiss of Mephistopheles doesn't require you to actually KNOW the Fireball spell. I mean, sure, you're likely to know it anyway, because Fiend grants access to it. But you aren't required to actually have picked it.
You can essentially use the invocation to replace it, freeing a spell known. The downside there is that you have to hit something first.

[DracoKnight]

Hexblade Warlock: Look at my shinny sword that gives me UNLIMITED POWER°!

Evil Wizard: And look at my pets

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h197/Mephibosheth85/rustmonster3_zps2067bcba.jpg

*Warlock Blade dissapears*

Warlock: Hey! Don't leave me like this!

Hexblade: Call me when you're done or in the other life

Nope. Only works on nonmagical weapons. PotB is magical.

[jaappleton]

I'm not saying the Raven Queen would have a problem with it, but having undead follow you around is generally something you can't do in most campaigns due to other party members and especially NPCs in towns.

Eh, throw a cloak around it and tell that Devotion Paladin that it's just your quiet, smelly friend.

[jaappleton]

Wall of Fire yoyo. Pull it in, push it out, yay extra damage per turn.

You'd need a friend, since Hadar requires GOO. They don't get WoF.

[Kileonhardt]

You'd need a friend, since Hadar requires GOO. They don't get WoF.

Yeah but getting a wizard or sorc to cast it shouldn't be too hard.

"Cast this spell to help with battlefield control and I'll make sure you do tons of damage with it." Easy to convince people.

[jaappleton]

Relentless Hex...

.....Did they... Did they out-swordmage the Stone Sorcerer?!

[User_Undefined]

Yeah but getting a wizard or sorc to cast it shouldn't be too hard.

"Cast this spell to help with battlefield control and I'll make sure you do tons of damage with it." Easy to convince people.

Or your ranger friend and Spike Growth.

[Kileonhardt]

Relentless Hex...

.....Did they... Did they out-swordmage the Stone Sorcerer?!

Biggest gripe I have with Curse Bringer is that you have to deal the killing blow to transfer curse. Shouldn't be too difficult but it's still a sucky limitation, so Relentless Hex will only be slightly okay for chasing things trying to run.

[jaappleton]

Biggest gripe I have with Curse Bringer is that you have to deal the killing blow to transfer curse. Shouldn't be too difficult but it's still a sucky limitation

But you don't need to kill it to regain HP from the Curse itself. That's very interesting.

Though Curse Bringer lets you reduce speed to 0 if you spend a spell slot, in addition to dealing extra damage.

[ChaosRonin]

Here is a link (https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/5q0ura/codex_unearthed_arcana_v10_first_complete_release/?st=iz4k67jq&sh=84ff2a63)to a UA codex that a awesome fellow on reddit has been making, and has promised to update it the Warlock and Wizard options later today.

As for the new pact blade Invocations are very flavorful but I don't really like how they force you to certain weapons type to use.

[DracoKnight]

As for the new pact blade Invocations are very flavorful but I don't really like how they force you to certain weapons type to use.

Easy enough for a DM to handwave.

[jaappleton]

Gaze of Khirad will drive many DMs insane.

"He he, they don't know there's an ambush in the next room!"
"Hey, I'm going to activate my Batman XRay vision. What's in that room?"
"&$%#!!!!!!"

[Kileonhardt]

As much as I do like Sentinel Raven does anyone else feel like it should have been a 30ft Darkvision range increase rather than a base 30? Seems like such a waste for any race that already has Darkvision.


Gaze of Khirad will drive many DMs insane.

"He he, they don't know there's an ambush in the next room!"
"Hey, I'm going to activate my Batman XRay vision. What's in that room?"
"&$%#!!!!!!"

It's definitely an ability I would have active all the time after getting it. I can handle seeing all the disgusting NPC in their birthday suits to always have that small advantage.

[jaappleton]

As much as I do like Sentinel Raven does anyone else feel like it should have been a 30ft Darkvision range increase rather than a base 30? Seems like such a waste for any race that already has Darkvision.



It's definitely an ability I would have active all the time after getting it. I can handle seeing all the disgusting NPC in their birthday suits to always have that small advantage.

Isn't it also strictly superior to Devil's Sight?

[jaappleton]

Path of the Seeker grants Advantage on being Paralyzed. Nice try with that Hold Person spell.

[Kileonhardt]

Isn't it also strictly superior to Devil's Sight?

Devil's Sight still gets around magical darkness and sees farther, but with Gaze you will be able to see through walls and floors to find passages / hidden things.

[Sception]

Fighter 1 / Hexblade 19
TWF Style
Variant Human: Dual Wielder feat

You'll still get Darkvision from Devil's Sight. You can't use a Shield, but you have +1 AC from the feat, and d8 weapons.

IMO, as a hexblade you cannot skip curse bringer. The option to shift your curse to secondary targets, and the smite for spike damage, are too much to just ignore. Stick to strength primary, wear heavy armor, take heavy armor mastery or great weapon mastery as your variant human bonus feat.

Throw javelins if you need to attack at range.

[Sir cryosin]

Relentless Hex...

.....Did they... Did they out-swordmage the Stone Sorcerer?!

Imagine a multi-class between those two

[DracoKnight]

Imagine a multi-class between those two

I said this earlier. Stone Sorcerer 6/Hexblade 14.

[rbstr]

Green Lord's Gift is just good combined with anything really. Spend hit die? Full HP restored from it. Drink a potion? Max HP restored.

Yeah it's good! I didn't find the other new Archfey options nearly as exciting.
The Moonbow is fun as a ranged Blade Pact option. But advantage vs. Lycanthropes isn't nearly as useful as the other weapons' rider effects. I guess I'd have liked the bow to be its own thing for any patron and the Fey to get a melee weapon. IMO longsword or rapier.

BAlso where the others get skill proficiency stuff and bonus action damage, Fey gets:
Aspect of the Moon. It's pretty good really but overlaps with race features (particularly Elves, which seem like the most likely to take a fey patron).
Sea Twins is really ehhh.

I think the Patron/Pact matching invocations are pretty cool (even though the blade ones are kinda copies of one another) Wish there had been more of them for the other Pact Boons. Only got Raven+Tome :(

[jaappleton]

Yeah it's good! I didn't find the other new Archfey options nearly as exciting.
The Moonbow is fun as a ranged Blade Pact option. But advantage vs. Lycanthropes isn't nearly as useful as the other weapons' rider effects. I guess I'd have liked the bow to be its own thing for any patron and the Fey to get a melee weapon. IMO longsword or rapier.

BAlso where the others get skill proficiency stuff and bonus action damage, Fey gets:
Aspect of the Moon. It's pretty good really but overlaps with race features (particularly Elves, which seem like the most likely to take a fey patron).
Sea Twins is really ehhh.

I think the Patron/Pact matching invocations are pretty cool (even though the blade ones are kinda copies of one another) Wish there had been more of them for the other Pact Boons. Only got Raven+Tome :(

But the Raven frees up other Invocations. When the Raven is with you, you get Darkvision. If you're Human, you might want to skip over Devil's Sight now. And since you gain many benefits from the Raven (Advantage for 24 hours on anyone that kills it?!), you may not want Pact of the Chain. Soul of the Raven lets you cast Fly on yourself at-will outside of combat. Still, for scouting, much less inconspicuous than the flying Tiefling.

[ruy343]

I understand the excitement about making the warlock a decent melee warrior, but seriously... why is a 1 level dip into warlock granting the Champion feature (19-20 to crit), a bonus to damage rolls equal to proficiency (which is more than the barbarian's limited rage damage), and free hit points on kill?

This is waaaay too powerful. This makes a 1 level dip into warlock almost mandatory as a barbarian (or any melee for that matter), because of all the synergy that this grants to their chassis. Eldritch knight is also largely worthless as well, because a lot of what makes EK good at level 3 is given away at level 1 to these guys...

Raven Queen pact appears fine, as does the Lore Wizard. The Lore wizard appears to be a good jack-of-all-trades wizard, though he also appears focused on dealing damage (which is fine).

[jaappleton]

I understand the excitement about making the warlock a decent melee warrior, but seriously... why is a 1 level dip into warlock granting the Champion feature (19-20 to crit), a bonus to damage rolls equal to proficiency (which is more than the barbarian's limited rage damage), and free hit points on kill?

This is waaaay too powerful. This makes a 1 level dip into warlock almost mandatory as a barbarian (or any melee for that matter), because of all the synergy that this grants to their chassis. Eldritch knight is also largely worthless as well, because a lot of what makes EK good at level 3 is given away at level 1 to these guys...

Many of the things you mentioned are tied to the Hexblade's Curse, which can only be done once per short rest.

Hexblade + Vengeance Paladin... Smite, channel divinity for Advantage, plus crits on a 19 or 20 (Again, tying back to Smite)... Mmm. Delicious. Oh, and using only Charisma for weapons. :smallbiggrin:

[Kileonhardt]

I understand the excitement about making the warlock a decent melee warrior, but seriously... why is a 1 level dip into warlock granting the Champion feature (19-20 to crit), a bonus to damage rolls equal to proficiency (which is more than the barbarian's limited rage damage), and free hit points on kill?

This is waaaay too powerful. This makes a 1 level dip into warlock almost mandatory as a barbarian (or any melee for that matter), because of all the synergy that this grants to their chassis. Eldritch knight is also largely worthless as well, because a lot of what makes EK good at level 3 is given away at level 1 to these guys...

Raven Queen pact appears fine, as does the Lore Wizard. The Lore wizard appears to be a good jack-of-all-trades wizard, though he also appears focused on dealing damage (which is fine).

Because as I and many others point out every week, no UA feature is balanced around multiclassing. The UA are released for 1-20 testing to see what's popular/good enough to port over into core and then re-worked to be balanced around the already existing things.

[ChaosRonin]

I understand the excitement about making the warlock a decent melee warrior, but seriously... why is a 1 level dip into warlock granting the Champion feature (19-20 to crit), a bonus to damage rolls equal to proficiency (which is more than the barbarian's limited rage damage), and free hit points on kill?

This is waaaay too powerful. This makes a 1 level dip into warlock almost mandatory as a barbarian (or any melee for that matter), because of all the synergy that this grants to their chassis. Eldritch knight is also largely worthless as well, because a lot of what makes EK good at level 3 is given away at level 1 to these guys...

Raven Queen pact appears fine, as does the Lore Wizard. The Lore wizard appears to be a good jack-of-all-trades wizard, though he also appears focused on dealing damage (which is fine).

First release UA articles aren't balanced with multiclass in mind that comes later.

Relentless Hex is giving me some 4e Avenger feels. I'm definitely going to have to try my hand at a Warlock soon

[tieren]

For all archers, a 3 level dip as fey-bladelock is now nearly required to get the moon bow.

Infinite ammo, and burning spell slots for double powered smites at range, yes please.

[jaappleton]

First release UA articles aren't balanced with multiclass in mind that comes later.

Relentless Hex is giving me some 4e Avenger feels. I'm definitely going to have to try my hand at a Warlock soon

I got that feeling as well. They were always specialists at "You. You, right there. You die first, get it?"

[DracoKnight]

I got that feeling as well. They were always specialists at "You. You, right there. You die first, get it?"

Take 7 levels of Vengeance Pally for the Ultimate Avenger! :smallbiggrin:

[Kileonhardt]

But the Raven frees up other Invocations. When the Raven is with you, you get Darkvision. If you're Human, you might want to skip over Devil's Sight now. And since you gain many benefits from the Raven (Advantage for 24 hours on anyone that kills it?!), you may not want Pact of the Chain. Soul of the Raven lets you cast Fly on yourself at-will outside of combat. Still, for scouting, much less inconspicuous than the flying Tiefling.

Better than fly even since Raven's fly speed is 50ft and has no duration limitation and realistically your Raven doesn't need to sleep, so neither do you, maybe?

Edit: Plus you can send it out scouting within 5 miles while you rest and then instantly bring it back and learn all the information afterwards. That's much better than a pact familiar.

[ChaosRonin]

Take 7 levels of Vengeance Pally for the Ultimate Avenger! :smallbiggrin:

oh nice, the ultimate in chasing foes down.

[DracoKnight]

oh nice, the ultimate in chasing foes down.

Exactly! With hunter's mark/hex, Curse Bringer, Divine Smite, and Vow of Enmity for sheer destructive POWER!

[jaappleton]

Exactly! With hunter's mark/hex, Curse Bringer, Divine Smite, and Vow of Enmity for sheer destructive POWER!

POWAH! UNLIMITED POWAH!!!

You've got the ability to heal, some long rest spell slots, some short rest slots, +Cha to Saves... heck, go Volo's Protector Aasimar for wings. Why wait until the Vengeance capstone?

[Temperjoke]

I will say, it's nice to see more Invocations, especially ones that relate to particular Patrons. That makes it more thematic that you are receiving power from your patron. I also like that Mearls was able to indulge in his desire to see more of the old Star pact stuff incorporated into 5e warlocks.

[jaappleton]

I will say, it's nice to see more Invocations, especially ones that relate to particular Patrons. That makes it more thematic that you are receiving power from your patron. I also like that Mearls was able to indulge in his desire to see more of the old Star pact stuff incorporated into 5e warlocks.

I love that some of the old Star pact stuff returned. But I was kinda hoping Star would've ended up being its own pact. This prevents that. Especially since one of the Warlock Smite invocations for GOO deals necrotic when Star was all about Radiant.

[DracoKnight]

POWAH! UNLIMITED POWAH!!!

You've got the ability to heal, some long rest spell slots, some short rest slots, +Cha to Saves... heck, go Volo's Protector Aasimar for wings. Why wait until the Vengeance capstone?

I want to play this now! :smallbiggrin:

[DracoKnight]

I will say, it's nice to see more Invocations, especially ones that relate to particular Patrons. That makes it more thematic that you are receiving power from your patron. I also like that Mearls was able to indulge in his desire to see more of the old Star pact stuff incorporated into 5e warlocks.


I love that some of the old Star pact stuff returned. But I was kinda hoping Star would've ended up being its own pact. This prevents that. Especially since one of the Warlock Smite invocations for GOO deals necrotic when Star was all about Radiant.

Would fans of the Star Pact want to see a homebrew take on it? I would be willing to write one, and publish it via Middle Finger of Venca! It sounds like a pretty sweet Patron concept, and it's something that's intrigued me for a while.

[solidork]

Hexblade getting Destructive Wave is pretty exciting, right?

[GandalfTheWhite]

Would fans of the Star Pact want to see a homebrew take on it? I would be willing to write one, and publish it via Middle Finger of Venca! It sounds like a pretty sweet Patron concept, and it's something that's intrigued me for a while.

Please do this!

[jaappleton]

Would fans of the Star Pact want to see a homebrew take on it? I would be willing to write one, and publish it via Middle Finger of Venca! It sounds like a pretty sweet Patron concept, and it's something that's intrigued me for a while.

More than the Star, the most unique I'd want to see brought back is the Sorcerer-King pact. I legitimately have NO idea how to bring it to 5E. Between the Feats and its spells, a bit odd.

[DracoKnight]

More than the Star, the most unique I'd want to see brought back is the Sorcerer-King pact. I legitimately have NO idea how to bring it to 5E. Between the Feats and its spells, a bit odd.

I'm not familiar with this one.

[jaappleton]

Hexblade getting Destructive Wave is pretty exciting, right?

What's unique is that it gets TWO AoE damaging spells at that level. Usually it's one combat, one social/exploration/utility. Two combat options is a bit unique.

I'd have loved for the Raven Queen to have gotten Spirit Guardians.

[jaappleton]

I'm not familiar with this one.

Nobody ever actually took Sorcerer-King. It was primarily for Athas settings, for Dark Sun campaigns.

The only reason people took SK was for the Feats linked to it. Increases to Curse damage, the ability to take a SECOND pact in conjunction with it, etc.

[Oramac]

I'd have loved for the Raven Queen to have gotten Spirit Guardians.

Now that you mention it, that would make sense.

[Levistej]

A Hexblade with the cursebringer invocation just screams for being roleplayed as Zahel and Nightblood from Cosmere. Shall we destroy some evil today? :smallbiggrin:

[DracoKnight]

Nobody ever actually took Sorcerer-King. It was primarily for Athas settings, for Dark Sun campaigns.

The only reason people took SK was for the Feats linked to it. Increases to Curse damage, the ability to take a SECOND pact in conjunction with it, etc.

That actually sounds kind of neat (getting a second pact). What kind of powers did it get from its class?

[ZiddyT]

Exactly! With hunter's mark/hex, Curse Bringer, Divine Smite, and Vow of Enmity for sheer destructive POWER!

There's a lot of redundancy though. Unless you *really* need the nova, you wouldn't really even use divine smite if you had the Curse Bringer. Obviously hex and hunter's mark are incompatible (and, as written, it doesn't look like the hound of shadow goes away from someone unless you command it to/they switch planes/get dispelled, regardless of distance. Meaning you can basically get the tracking of hunter's mark without even needing to make a check.) There's certainly other ways to get advantage with less investment (If they stick with this inanity of forcing you to disregard one of your class features entirely for an invocation and you dip fighter anyway, could go a couple more and pick up samurai or something).

[jaappleton]

That actually sounds kind of neat (getting a second pact). What kind of powers did it get from its class?

Goodness, it's been awhile since I saw their power list. 4E classes got so many powers that keeping track of them all was rough, to say the least. It's the only reason I had a D&D Insider subscription, which I don't even think you can get anymore (since the move to 5E).

I recall unique to the SK pact was Fell Might. You start each fight with it, and you can expend it to boost the power of your Encounter powers (if the powers you picked aligned with the SK pact, it didn't help vanilla Warlock powers). Sometimes it'd be an additional rider, or an increase in damage. SK relied heavily on Psychic damage, if memory serves.

Honestly, I find it very difficult to find a firm list of 4E powers online. But an accurate representation and description of the SK pact, from what I recall of it, can be found here: https://dark-sun-a-new-dawn.obsidianportal.com/wikis/character-options

[Vaz]

There's a lot of redundancy though. Unless you *really* need the nova, you wouldn't really even use divine smite if you had the Curse Bringer.
Better to have it and not need it that need it and not have it. No build ever 'did good' by having just the right amount of resources that it couldn't afford to optionally invest more at certain times. It is why Wizards are strong after all.



Obviously hex and hunter's mark are incompatible (and, as written, it doesn't look like the hound of shadow goes away from someone unless you command it to/they switch planes/get dispelled, regardless of distance. Meaning you can basically get the tracking of hunter's mark without even needing to make a check.) There's certainly other ways to get advantage with less investment (If they stick with this inanity of forcing you to disregard one of your class features entirely for an invocation and you dip fighter anyway, could go a couple more and pick up samurai or something).

It looks like Hex/HM were written for the purpose of choosing one or the other. Not entirely sure what the rest of what you're talking about though.

Turn 1; Move Up, Defensive Buff (ie Mirror Image/AoA), Bonus Action Hex
Turn 2; Mark of Vengeance+Hexblade Curse as a Bonus + Action

You can either go for more Paladin or more Warlock.

[rooneg]

For all archers, a 3 level dip as fey-bladelock is now nearly required to get the moon bow.

Infinite ammo, and burning spell slots for double powered smites at range, yes please.

Honestly, I'm not convinced. The infinite arrows and smites are nice, but with a 3 level dip you're giving up the ability to have a +1/+2/+3 bow. If the ability worked with any bow you made into your pact weapon that would be something different, but as I read it the bow is the bow. If you want bonuses you need to use the various "my weapon is awesome" invocations, the earliest of which comes online at Warlock level 5. Also, 3 levels of dip is a lot, I'm not convinced it's worth it relative to other things you could spend those levels on, especially when the first two levels aren't really getting you stuff you're terribly interested in. You're not dipping for Eldritch Blast shenanigans, so what's left? On-demand Mage Armor is nice enough I guess, but most of the stuff that comes with being a Warlock is not terribly exciting to an archer.

[jaappleton]

Honestly, I'm not convinced. The infinite arrows and smites are nice, but with a 3 level dip you're giving up the ability to have a +1/+2/+3 bow. If the ability worked with any bow you made into your pact weapon that would be something different, but as I read it the bow is the bow. If you want bonuses you need to use the various "my weapon is awesome" invocations, the earliest of which comes online at Warlock level 5. Also, 3 levels of dip is a lot, I'm not convinced it's worth it relative to other things you could spend those levels on, especially when the first two levels aren't really getting you stuff you're terribly interested in. You're not dipping for Eldritch Blast shenanigans, so what's left? On-demand Mage Armor is nice enough I guess, but most of the stuff that comes with being a Warlock is not terribly exciting to an archer.

Plus, for ALL archery? So hand crossbow / crossbow expert users need to look elsewhere? I know many that'd prefer to stay on their current path than to trade a 3 level dip for Smiting with ONLY a longbow. And it requires Spellcasting. So some Fighters, most Rogues have to look elsewhere. And it'd make for MAD Rangers, with Wis/Cha. I suppose its worth looking at for some Valor Bards at higher levels.

Though Warlock spell slots replenishing on short rests, coupled with the Arcane Archer's short rest abilities is something to consider.

[Dr. Cliché]

With regard to the Moon Bow, aside from the Smite feature, isn't it strictly inferior to Eldritch Blast?

[ZiddyT]

Better to have it and not need it that need it and not have it. No build ever 'did good' by having just the right amount of resources that it couldn't afford to optionally invest more at certain times. It is why Wizards are strong after all.

I mean, if you could get it for free, sure. But it's not. It's not terrible, but it's certainly not as amazing as it was made to seem mechanically.
Flavor-wise, sure, it's cool. You've got a lot of resources (redundant as they are) to dedicate to screwing over one person in particular (I'm gonna sic my shadow dog on you, mark you for vengeance, curse you, and either curse you again, or mark you yet again for extra damage, and on top of that I'm going to smite you twice a hit. Just because I can.). Interesting hate machine.





It looks like Hex/HM were written for the purpose of choosing one or the other. Not entirely sure what the rest of what you're talking about though.

Turn 1; Move Up, Defensive Buff (ie Mirror Image/AoA), Bonus Action Hex
Turn 2; Mark of Vengeance+Hexblade Curse as a Bonus + Action

You can either go for more Paladin or more Warlock.

Just pointing out the lack of usefulness/redundancy in another feature pointed out for Vengeance Pally (hunter's mark on the spell list and vow of enmity). You already have hex which has the (arguably) better rider effect in its curse, and even if you value the tracking provided by hunter's mark, well you've already potentially got that in Shadow Hound. Except better.

Vow of enmity is nice, but you don't really need the other pally features and there are cheaper ways to get advantage.

I really think the hex blade was designed to be ridiculously good just single-classed. I like that.

[Millstone85]

I am surprised to see a patron with built-in martial stuff and another with a built-in familiar. That creates a strange dynamic with the pact boons. The Hexblade and Pact of the Blade now seem like they should always be used together. Then there is the intriguing image of a warlock with two ravens, one of them from the Queen and the other an imp in disguise.

I agree with Dr. Cliché that your connection with the Hexblade should start with you finding the weapon, though I guess it could be calling to you from the dungeon it was sealed in.

But here is what surprises me maybe the most. Every patron until now has been named after a general concept or broad category. And they could have stayed true to that trend by giving us "The Reaper" or "The Psychopomp". But no, it is specifically the Raven Queen, the death goddess from the 4e default setting. So what if I am playing in the Forgotten Realms? Is she pals with Kelemvor or what? I suppose it could be a new version of the Raven Queen, one that's "only" a major power of the Shadowfell.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Hexblade needs a level 1 nerf.

Raven Queen is fine.

ALL THOSE INVOCATIONS OHYESSSSSS!

Lore Master is permabanned from any table I run. BANNED. Why even HAVE a Sorcerer if you're gonna keep one-upping it Mearles!?

[Dr. Cliché]

Hexblade needs a level 1 nerf.

What needs nerfing?

[jaappleton]

Warlock - Hexblade
VHuman - Feat - Magic Initiate: Booming Blade, Greenflame Blade, whatever from Sorcerer

Now they're all keying off Charisma. It scales well, so you need not worry about taking Pact of the Blade.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

What needs nerfing?

The thing about using Charisma. I hate it. It's bad. I demand it's removal.

[Rysto]

Warlock - Hexblade
VHuman - Feat - Magic Initiate: Booming Blade, Greenflame Blade, whatever from Sorcerer

Now they're all keying off Charisma. It scales well, so you need not worry about taking Pact of the Blade.

Why Magic Initiate? BB and GFB are already on the Warlock list.

[jaappleton]

Why Magic Initiate? BB and GFB are already on the Warlock list.

Well then, I'll sit the hell down.

Totally forgot about that.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Why Magic Initiate? BB and GFB are already on the Warlock list.

Even more cantrips?

[Dr. Cliché]

The thing about using Charisma. I hate it. It's bad. I demand it's removal.

I don't see the issue, to be honest.

I mean, melee warlock is usually going to be inefficient to begin with, does it really need to be stupidly MAD as well?

- They need high Cha for spells.
- They'll want high Con for hp and Concentration (both of which become even more important if they intend to go melee).
- They'll want at least 14 dex for AC (again, especially important for melee characters).

This basically just saves them from having to max out strength in addition to the above, and even then they can't use the bonus with the strongest weapons.

[jaappleton]

I don't see the issue, to be honest.

I mean, melee warlock is usually going to be inefficient to begin with, does it really need to be stupidly MAD as well?

- They need high Cha for spells.
- They'll want high Con for hp and Concentration (both of which become even more important if they intend to go melee).
- They'll want at least 14 dex for AC (again, especially important for melee characters).

This basically just saves them from having to max out strength in addition to the above, and even then they can't use the bonus with the strongest weapons.

Because it's a spectacular lv1 dip. Valor Bards, Paladins, and some Sorcerers will all want it, too.

[JumboWheat01]

Because it's a spectacular lv1 dip. Valor Bards, Paladins, and some Sorcerers will all want it, too.

I don't know about your paladins, but mine wouldn't really want anything to do with eldritch powers corrupting them.

Admittedly, I'm a class purist. Single class, all the way!

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I don't see the issue, to be honest.


Because it's a spectacular lv1 dip. Valor Bards, Paladins, and some Sorcerers will all want it, too.

Got it in one. It devalues the Warlock, in my mind. Warlock isn't MAD since all you need is Dex and Charisma. Strength would be nice to have for athletics, but...well...Dex is king, and Str isn't. It's far more efficient to summon a rapier than a longsword.


Admittedly, I'm a class purist. Single class, all the way!

This too. :smallbiggrin:

[Sception]

The thing about using Charisma. I hate it. It's bad. I demand it's removal.

The hex damage that scales with character level rather than class level could probably use a tweak, too. Maybe a flat +2 damage, and boost it by another +2 every time they get another patron feature?

And they don't need the damage boost AND the crit range increase. I'd pull that out entirely, or maybe put it somewhere else. The shadow dog is cool, but isn't really thematically appropriate, so maybe put the increased crit range at that level, and make the hex-shifting when you kill your hex target a further class feature at that level instead of part of the Curse Bringer invocation.

Then let curse bringer summon a range of weapons (paired short swords, longsword, or greatsword, chosen when you learn the invocation) instead of just the greatsword. Going strength for increased weapon damage on the greatsword (and access to GWM) is still an option, but those who don't take it still have a signature weapon invocation for access to smite damage.

Though, honestly, the smite damage invocations are a tax, imo. The smite damage should be erratad into the pact blade instead, leaving signature weapon invocations to be more about cool themes and less about patching the subclass.

[jaappleton]

Also, the lv6 Hexblade feature sucks.

[Kileonhardt]

Because it's a spectacular lv1 dip. Valor Bards, Paladins, and some Sorcerers will all want it, too.

Which again comes back to the fact that UA aren't designed with multiclassing in mind. I do admit a single level dip with the current state of Hexblade would be ridiculous for Paladin. Keep Str at 15 for heavy armor or go 14 Dex for medium and then just max Cha and Con, or Cha and then feats, would be super nice.

Honestly I'd say just split the Cha to weapon attacks from Hex Warrior into an Invocation with a Pact of the Blade requirement. A three level dip isn't nearly as hard to justify seeing as at that point Warlocks would get Shillelagh from Tome anyway.

[jaappleton]

I don't know about your paladins, but mine wouldn't really want anything to do with eldritch powers corrupting them.

Admittedly, I'm a class purist. Single class, all the way!

Nothing about the Archfey or even Hexblade or Raven Queen says anything about it has to be 'evil'. Hell, the Raven Queen is all about punishing people who defy fate. Sounds like it lines up perfectly with a Vengeance Paladin to me!

Devotion? Eh, a bit of a stretch for some Warlock Patrons. But who says your ancient weapon calling you isn't a Holy Avenger?

Though the lv6 feature of Hexblade really makes no sense, thematically or mechanics wise.

[Kileonhardt]

Nothing about the Archfey or even Hexblade or Raven Queen says anything about it has to be 'evil'. Hell, the Raven Queen is all about punishing people who defy fate. Sounds like it lines up perfectly with a Vengeance Paladin to me!

Devotion? Eh, a bit of a stretch for some Warlock Patrons. But who says your ancient weapon calling you isn't a Holy Avenger?

Though the lv6 feature of Hexblade really makes no sense, thematically or mechanics wise.

Yeah giving free reign of your soul over to a deity your character believes in and worships, or whatever deal you strike up, seems right up Paladin alley.

[ZiddyT]

Because it's a spectacular lv1 dip. Valor Bards, Paladins, and some Sorcerers will all want it, too.

I mean... That's not a huge deal unless you're allowing double-UA multiclass (which you almost certainly should not). The Valor Bard would have to be melee, and it's only for one-handed weapons, so it doesn't give them a huge power spike (it's not like you can abuse it for PAM/GWM or SS/Swift Quiver shenanigans). The end result is that they... what, have a point or two extra to-hit and damage?

Paladins... don't dump strength? Unless you're worried about everyone making specifically hill dwarf paladins in order to still wear decent armor and be able to dump str. In which case they're losing out on a lot of relevant bonuses (like a bonus feat, or you know, +cha to use with that Hex Warrior feature).

It's basically only great for sorcerers, and only stone sorcerers at that (with the new favored soul canon, at least). A blaster/caster sorc shouldn't delay caster progression for the ability to be slightly less sub-par in melee.

[JumboWheat01]

Nothing about the Archfey or even Hexblade or Raven Queen says anything about it has to be 'evil'.

True, true. Not going to argue that. Still, my class purist ways get in the way of a lot of things.