Trollhunters (Netflix animated series)

[Giggling Ghast]

I'm doing my part to spread some love to this great show.

So I just finished Trollhunters Season 1 on Netflix and I have to say, that was one of the best cartoon series I've ever seen. It's got some great fight scenes, some good laughs, a likeable cast and a surprisingly deep storyline.

It's based on a book series by Guillermo del Toro (it contains a few small nods to the Hellboy series) and is about a young lad named Jim Lake who is tasked with being the next protector of trollkind. It's your fairly standard Masquerade set-up - trolls live beneath the surface, humans don't know they exist, an ultimate evil threatens both worlds, etc.

Notably for a children's cartoon, the heroes and villains actually do threaten each other's lives and there are casaulties on both sides. It's also very good about having nearly every episode advance the plot in either a minor or major way.

My only real complaint is that it's the same studio that does How to Train Your Dragon, so a lot of the character models come out very same-y. If you're a human teen, you're either super fat or super thin.

Two notes about Season 1: while it's one 26-episode season, it's effectively split into two parts, with a new Big Bad coming to the fore in the second half. Also, the main character is voiced by Anton Yelchin, so ... he'll need a new VA in Season 2. 😢

[JoshL]

This is my favorite cartoon Netflix has done so far...and that is going up against S6 of Clone Wars and the How to Train Your Dragon series (though that also continues a tv series). I'm a huge del Toro fan, so that helps, but this show definitely plays on his morbid whimsy. I really can't wait to see where it goes next!

Regarding Yelchin (RIP), my understanding is they do have another actor who filled in a couple lines in this season, and they have most of the dialogue for the next 13 episode arc recorded with him. In an interview, del Toro said there is an event at the end of the next arc that could explain a voice change; it wasn't intended that way, but sort of logically works out. Buy we'll get at least a few more episodes with Yelchin, and Netflix has renewed it so that's very exciting

[Fiery Diamond]

Okay, all I've watched is the first episode so far. Thank you for posting this thread; I'd never heard of it before.

I'm very much enjoying it. Lots of "Awwwww" for our hero looking after his mom. Also those two trolls that greet our hero are great. And the introductory scene for the teacher made me absolutely love that teacher. That is how you be a good teacher. Like, I don't care if he's a villain. He's a good teacher.

Edit: And now I've watched episode 2. This show is AMAZING. Not only are the character animation and voice acting totally on point, but the dialogue-writing is absolutely the best.

[Raynor007]

Bumping this thread: have you all seen up to the end of Season Three?

[JoshL]

Yup, watched and rewatched it a few times! Absolutely loved it, and I love that they're continuing the world without beating the Trollhunter arc into the ground! The hooks for the next series were great (the exchange students, Steve and Eli), and the little concept tease for the third is exciting (wizards).

Very fun show, and I loved it! Sort of want to play a video game based on it now!

[Draconi Redfir]

one mof my favorite binge-watches ever, often found myself watching three or four episodes in a row when i only ment to watch one:smalltongue:

From what i've heard, there are supposed to be two other shows set in the same universe, "Wizards" and "Three below" or something. looking forward to those as well.

[GloatingSwine]

I've watched the first couple of seasons.

It's okay, but I have a couple of issues with it. The main character rarely seems to be getting good at what he's doing. He scrapes through every fight seemingly through luck. In part, I suspect, because there haven't really been any mook enemies barring the golems at the end of season 1 when Jim actually did look briefly like he knew what he was doing.

Because there aren't any mooks to beat on the hero doesn't get wins where they look good, and that means when supposedly stronger and more threatening enemies show up "hero barely wins" is the only baseline we have.

The eternal comparison because it's the best TV series ever is Avatar. We have enough information to know that Aang is good at what he does, he's strong, quick, and clever. And that means when Azula shows up and can school both him and the villain he was previously matched with we know she's Serious Business.

Also there are far too many high school trope episodes which I have seen better before. No TV series is henceforth allowed to use the "look after this X" episode because they are not The Eggbaby and will never better it.

[Giggling Ghast]

It's okay, but I have a couple of issues with it. The main character rarely seems to be getting good at what he's doing. He scrapes through every fight seemingly through luck. In part, I suspect, because there haven't really been any mook enemies barring the golems at the end of season 1 when Jim actually did look briefly like he knew what he was doing.

What about the goblins?

[GloatingSwine]

What about the goblins?

Most of the time they're comic relief instead of mooks for the heroes to fight.

Good mooks are convincingly a bit dangerous but the hero defeats them through superior skill. Goblins have basically no bite because they're initially presented as rather dim and despite their whole schtick of "swear infinite vengeance for the death of one" they only do it for comic effect and the purported consequences (they literally eat a truck) don't happen when it's to a named character (Nomura gets stuck with it twice).

Angor Rot's golems were perfect mooks, disposable, a bit dangerous, the hero gets to look good beating them. But then they went away and nothing really replaced them.

Without them, the fact that Jim scrapes through basically every encounter with anything by the skin of his teeth makes him look bad more than it makes them look dangerous. Proper big bads can't be convincingly more dangerous when a monster of the week is a serious challenge every week.

[Giggling Ghast]

But Jim’s finest hour in Season 1 arguably comes when he’s defending Claire from the goblins and he calls the Seal of Merlin to his side.

[Draconi Redfir]

more "mook" like enemies do show up near the end of the series. i don't want to say anything more out of fear of spoilers though, i don't know how many people have finished it.

[GloatingSwine]

But Jim’s finest hour in Season 1 arguably comes when he’s defending Claire from the goblins and he calls the Seal of Merlin to his side.

Again though, a one off event that doesn't establish a baseline of "Jim is actually a competent fighter" which this kind of series really needs to sell the threat of big bads. "Jim is having trouble with this fight" isn't news when a big bad shows up, because he does that every week so why are the big bads bigger and badder?

It doesn't make the show bad, but it does make me want to watch Voltron Legendary Defender instead if I have Netflix open, because the characters have grown to the point that they all look like they know what they're doing when the action happens.

[Raynor007]

I've watched the first couple of seasons.

It's okay, but I have a couple of issues with it. The main character rarely seems to be getting good at what he's doing. He scrapes through every fight seemingly through luck. In part, I suspect, because there haven't really been any mook enemies barring the golems at the end of season 1 when Jim actually did look briefly like he knew what he was doing.

Because there aren't any mooks to beat on the hero doesn't get wins where they look good, and that means when supposedly stronger and more threatening enemies show up "hero barely wins" is the only baseline we have.

A) I actually consider that a strength of the series, which I'll explain below, and B) that changes a lot in season three and the end of season two. All three human characters (Jim, Claire, and Toby) are shown to have grown competent, confident, and more self-reliant.

To point A, I think it gives a very heightened sense of Jim's humanity that the big bads wipe the walls with him most encounters. He is fighting things meant to be fought by trolls, who are bigger, faster, and stronger than he is, and yet he must fight them, because he is who was chosen. If you've seen season two, you'll remember the episode Unbecoming (cleverly titled after the first two episodes of season 1), where Jim goes to fight Bular and Gunmar without the amulet, in a sequence that underscores the message of the entire series: that Jim's greatest strength is not his fighting ability, but his humanity and self-sacrifice. Seeing Jim be able to butcher a roomfull of goblins or Gumm Gumms doesn't do much to advance his character; seeing him go and fight the Skullcrusher without a weapon does.

[Starwulf]

I enjoyed all of the series(It's over now, for those who don't know, however they creator is making two other shows set in the same universe), with the exception of one thing(albeit it's fairly major). It bugged me that the entire series we have a big bad being built up, almost to mythical proportions, and then almost out of nowhere he's deposed, and made to look more or less insignificant when the "REAL" big bad rears their ugly head. I guess I should have expected that considering how many video games I've played, but it really wasn't done very well at all. Morganna's introduction and build up was fairly hasty, as was her demise. For being the big bad I feel like everything to do with her was just ill-thought out. I'd have been just fine with Gunmar being the primary villain.


Outside of that though, I really did enjoy the series very much, I watched season 1 and 2 in a single go, and then season 3 shortly after it was released.

[GloatingSwine]

A) I actually consider that a strength of the series, which I'll explain below, and B) that changes a lot in season three and the end of season two. All three human characters (Jim, Claire, and Toby) are shown to have grown competent, confident, and more self-reliant.

My literal argument is that the series does not make me strongly believe this when I compare it to other shows like Voltron or Avatar. Jim in particular has not grown enough, especially to carry the action parts of the show.


To point A, I think it gives a very heightened sense of Jim's humanity that the big bads wipe the walls with him most encounters. He is fighting things meant to be fought by trolls, who are bigger, faster, and stronger than he is, and yet he must fight them, because he is who was chosen.

And if the series wanted to show us him being competent they'd show him fighting intelligently agaisnst those bigger, stronger opponents. As an example, take this clip (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2sunyt) from Avatar. Aang is fighting someone a lot stronger than him, without a way to directly attack, just like Jim usually is. But when he evades, even when he's quite desperate, he evades with purpose. And he's able, during the fight, to analyse and discover a way to defeat his opponent indirectly. Compare it to this fight (https://youtu.be/Q_sL_SW_imU?t=336) in Trollhunters (mostly missing but you can check it on Netflix). Despite being mid season 2 the combat is just Jim getting punked, and when he evades he does it desperately with no plan to get advantage from it.

Also, it's not just the big bads, it's any bads. Even at the start of season 3 "Jim gets punked off screen" is used for the punchline of someone else's joke.


If you've seen season two, you'll remember the episode Unbecoming (cleverly titled after the first two episodes of season 1), where Jim goes to fight Bular and Gunmar without the amulet, in a sequence that underscores the message of the entire series: that Jim's greatest strength is not his fighting ability, but his humanity and self-sacrifice. Seeing Jim be able to butcher a roomfull of goblins or Gumm Gumms doesn't do much to advance his character; seeing him go and fight the Skullcrusher without a weapon does.

Action is character. Look again at that fight in Avatar, it contrasts Aang and Zhao by what they do and how they do it. Showing the hero fighting and winning in regular battles lets you show how they fight, how that changes over the series and that advances who they are as a person. Compare Pidge in this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS4QaJWgZ7E) with this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3LsaWzU17w). Early on she's the least capable fighter, but by season 4 she's learned, she's not strong but she's smart and thinks on her feet.

How Jim does it is he mostly gets his ass kicked, his attacks are mostly ineffective because he's given almost no opponents he can be effective against. He's almost never in charge in a fight, hardly even of his own actions. Which he should be at least some of the time, and mook tier enemies are how you can provide that.