Looking for good house rules for unarmed combat

[huginn]

Hello

I am in a 1st edition group and like most other players we don't use the unarmed combat rules in the DMG. Unarmed combat doesn't come up much but there are times the group is in towns that frown on carrying weapons and fights can happen

Has anyone come up with house rules or something from another system.

[LibraryOgre]

Simple ones? Hand to Hand damage is 1d3+strength modifiers, and 75% temporary (so, if you take 4 points of damage from punching, 3 of them will disappear after a turn). Grappling is a d20 to strike, then escape using opposed Open Doors checks (meaning a higher successful roll, or both people failing, breaks the target free). Grappling does unarmed damage every round the hold is maintained.

[Quickblade]

Why don't you use the unarmed combat rules in 1st ed? What doesn't work for you?

[huginn]

Why don't you use the unarmed combat rules in 1st ed? What doesn't work for you?

Its when grappling or overbearing comes up. Working out the percentages which are modified by stats weight and height of attacker and defender. I am curious if someone have come up with something more streamlined

[Quickblade]

BECMI Companion PHB has some easy to follow rules for unarmed combat (pub fighting) and some for wrestling.
Away from book but if you like I could post them here later

[huginn]

BECMI Companion PHB has some easy to follow rules for unarmed combat (pub fighting) and some for wrestling.
Away from book but if you like I could post them here later

I would appreciate it if you did post them

[Quickblade]

OK this is for townbased brawling, where it is humanoid combatants of roughly same size.
Use normal initiative and combat rolls.
Can be 2 possible effects from a successful hit ( punch, kick, elbow, headbutt etc.) these being a stun or a knockout. It says if the attacker has less than 4 HD (levels) only a stun is possible but that's up to you.
If a strike hits, the base damage is 0 modified by Strength bonus ( ignore any penalties or a penalty could mean only a stun is possible regardless of HD)
A victim hit must roll 1d20, and subtract his Constitution score from the result. If the result is 1 or more victim is stunned for one round. The victim must then also make a saving throw vs Death Ray with a +4 bonus or suffer a knockout. The duration of the knockout is the result of the previous roll of 1d20 minus Constitution in rounds ( eg 12 Constitution and rolled 15 you are knocked out for 3 rounds on failure of Saving Throw. Passing Saving Throw means only stunned).
EFFECTS: STUN
The victim cannot attack or concentrate( no spells or magic items can be used). Movement is at one third rate and +4 penalty applies to AC.
KNOCKOUT: Short "sleep" and is completely helpless.
OPTIONAL RULES
1. Only a fist strike can cause knockout. All other strikes result in stun but for duration determined by 1d20 minus Constitution.
2. Knockout not possible if victim has more HD than attacker.
3. Attacker can "pull" punches, not inflicting any HP damage with Str bonus.
4. Apply attackers Strength bonus or penalty to victims Saving throw bonus for Knockout. (+2 Str bonus for attacker would mean victim only gets +2 bonus for saving throw).
5. If striking with an object ( ale tankard maybe) in hand -2 penalty applies to saving throw (for knockout).
6. Parry can be used ( holding a chair maybe) -5 to defenders AC.
7. Multiple attacks
8. Haymaker: when striking with a fist character accepts -5 penalty to Hit Roll and loses initiative. If hit succeeds -4 penalty applies to saving throw, negating +4 bonus.

Pick and choose what you like. I think this is pretty easy to use.
For NPC's Constitution just roll or pick a number you think suitable. NPC saving throw is either ' normal man' or by class.
If you would like the wrestling rules let me know. They're just as long.
Anything you want explained, let me know

[BigBadHarve]

Unearthed Arcana also has a simplified unarmed combat system specifically for 1st Ed.

Also the 2nd ed "Combat and Tactics" supplement has a great unarmed system which is compatible with 1st ed.

[The BlindCleric]

Why don't you use the unarmed combat rules in 1st ed? What doesn't work for you?

Exactly. one of the biggest complaints about 1e.

1. make sure everyones weaponless combat table is filled out beforehand. nothing brings fun to a screeching halt faster than having to stop and figure a characters adjustments.

2. practicepracticepractice. You will feel the learning curve the first couple times, but it soon becomes second nature. when you get comfortable with it you will,

3. use it in numerous situations. Most players don't realize this, but a big strong fighter at low level can often take out a mid-level opponent who would have otherwise carved him to pieces in melee combat. also a great technique for softening up an opponent for questioning. :smallsmile:

I played with a group a few times that had a couple really obnoxious players. one in particular kept needling and goading me for seemingly no reason. All the other characters in this party were ridiculously high levels and had between them nearly every magic item in the book...this guy included. At some point I had had enough, but he had a "vorpal weapon" at his disposal, I really didn't want to to tangle with him in melee combat, so instead I made a successful overbearance and grapple. He could not use his weapons while so engaged, so long story short...I beat him into unconsciousness, Tied him up and took everything he had on him. Imagine his surprise. :smallwink:

[ricks]

I spent years trying to come up with something that worked better than the myriad 1e (2e, etc.) systems that all didn't work well for us. The below has held up fairly well over time. In short, the combatants roll opposed dice. 3 full successes disables the opponent. You can adjust the variability of the results (aka how long that takes to happen, and how much impact hit dice have) by changing which die is used. Also works for all the other cases of "can I do that when someone else doesn't want me to". There's a lot of detail to explain everything, but with the NWS score (See below) determined in advance, it's really just an opposed check with a modifier that doesn't change much.


G. Close Combat (Unarmed)
Close Combat Actions use contested Close Combat Checks (CCCs) to determine success, comparing the CCC scores between the attacker(s) and defender(s). Close Combat can’t occur against opponents disparate by more than one size. Close Combat Actions cannot be combined with Weapon Actions. Most Close Combat modifiers are fixed, and can be calculated in advance as the Non-Weapon Score (NWS):
• Base THAC0
• -DEXTERITY Reaction/Attacking bonus (Monsters vary based on AC)
OR (depending on which is better, does not aggregate)
-To Hit STRENGTH bonus

Add the following modifiers when engaged in CC:
• +4 vs. Multiple Attackers in Unarmed Combat
• +1/opponent
• +1 for each opponent’s leg beyond two (or +2 for zero legs)

CCC: die + NWS + modifiers, Low to succeed
Close Combat Actions (normally d20):
Unarmed Combat (uses d30): Up to six Attackers can attempt Unarmed Combat, modified by size (smaller than the Defender counts half, larger than the Defender counts double). An armed Defender may make a single free attack when an unarmed attack is attempted; success does not foil the assistance of that individual attacker. A successful CCC indicates the Attacker and Defender are Engaged. Once Engaged and beyond:
• Combatants cannot move, fight other opponents, or cast spells (unless Verbal only), and are limited to weapons of small size after the first round of combat;
• Combatants gain no defending DEXTERITY AC bonus vs. non-Engaged attackers;
• Combatants can make one Unarmed Combat Action (as an CCC) each round, including the first:
o Incapacitate (EGPH):
1. Grapple: Take an Engaged defender to the ground/ grab them.
2. Pin a Grappled defender. Pinned characters are +4 To Hit by other (non-Engaged) attackers. A Pinned defender automatically goes last when comparing Initiative. When Pinned, the only possible action is attempt to Escape. A character pinned from the beginning to the end of a round is Held, and helpless (unable to defend themselves or react in any productive way).
3. Escape. Success decreases a Pin to Grapple, a Grappled to Engaged, or Engaged to Breaking Free. Those who break free may not move away that round.
o Pummel: Damage for STR bonus + (d2 vs. small/medium, d3 vs. large, or a small weapon). If a combatant has multiple attacks in a round, the additional attacks can be used to Pummel, even when Engaged. Unconsciousness will not cause further loss of hit points. [KO on a 1 for d4 rounds]
o Drag: Drag/Move a Grappled defender 1”.
o Shove: Shove a Grappled defender 5’ away or knock them down, and disengage.

Overrun: One or more characters attempting to push past/through one or more opponents. Each “line” of opponents counts as one “opponent”. You attempt one CCC roll for each “line” to pass through, +1 (cumulative) for each successive “line” tried on the same round (You can keep trying until you fail or decide to stop). Anyone attempting to follow must also succeed on a CCC each attempt, or get left behind.
Rush: Push the opponent backwards 5’ + 1’ for each point of difference. Add +1 for each “line” of opponent.
Disarm: Modified by +8 for each Defender’s hand.

[Thrudd]

I disagree with the idea that unarmed and armed combat should be separated in general. Not only does it simplify the game to use a similar or identical mechanic for it, but in terms of verisimilitude at D&D's level of abstraction it is inaccurate to separate one mode of fighting from another - grappling is a natural part of personal combat whether armed or unarmed, and unarmed blows often figure into armed exchanges. Even bows and arrows use the same mechanic, when wielding those are nothing at all like fighting. It really only requires the addition of a mechanic to distinguish non-lethal and lethal attack modes.

With both combatants unarmed, the attack should be rolled as normal but only 1d3 of non-lethal damage is dealt. When non-lethal damage equals the current HP score, the character is knocked out/immobilized. The attacker can choose whether they should be knocked out (for 1d4 minutes/rounds) with percussive strikes or immobilized with wrestling or grappling. Obviously, immobilizing requires the attacker to remain mostly immobile as well. As normal, a helpless/unconscious opponent can be automatically killed by whatever method, assuming there are no more threats to the victorious party - so everyone/anyone is capable of killing while unarmed, they simply take a while to get there.

Have a separate box on the sheet for non-lethal damage incurred, near the current HP box to easily compare them. Non-lethal damage is removed at a rate of 1 per turn (ten minutes).

When one combatant is armed and the other unarmed, unless surprised, the armed combatant always goes first in the round with +4 chance to hit. This reflects the reality of engaging an armed opponent as well as the loss of defensive ability normally granted by wielding a weapon of your own. The unarmed combatant fights as above.

non-humanoid monsters with natural weapons are always considered armed.

The exception to this is the monk, who is trained specially to engage in lethal combat against armed opponents while unarmed. They are the only ones who have the option of dealing lethal unarmed damage as well as suffering no penalty for engaging an armed opponent while unarmed. They are "living weapons".

The shortfalls of this method include not accounting for the added difficulty of hurting someone wearing armor with unarmed percussive strikes as well as the possible damage one could do to their own hands in such an attack. I feel that adding more complexity and dragging out combat even longer on top of the changes already made to the base combat system is not worth the realism it contributes. You can explain this as the effect of wearing gauntlets, or D&D characters being extra tough sorts, or the non-lethal damage being the accumulation of fatigue due to body blows or frustrated maneuvers until the final decisive blow is struck to an unprotected face or neck.

[MeeposFire]

From my experience with AD&D and from what I have seen on message boards the biggest problems with unarmed combat is having rules that are too complicated or convulated that made unarmed combat tedious or hard to use.

From my cursory glance I do not think this helps with this problem.