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Tor the Fallen
2007-07-22, 11:29 PM
We have an Illithid PC in our ECL 11 party who tells us he'll have no qualms about eating our brains.

As a wizard, my character would very much like to keep his brain. What items/spells should I always have up to keep me safe? I'd like to do this by
1) not killing his character
2) not getting killed
3) minimizing party conflict

I'd like to demonstrate to this Illithid that humanoid wizards aren't to be trifled with, but continue working with him as equals rather than slave and master.

I should also mention that he has three PC thralls; a level 11 straight fighter, a level 11 cleric, and a thri-kreen that does good at throwing stuff, ECL 10 or 11. I would prefer to minimize conflict with these characters.

We're playing 3.0 core, though have many other 3.5 books.

We have complete arcane, the spell compendium, BoED, BoVD, LoM, Frostburn, a couple Eberron books, and the Draconomicon.

Items:
The DM gave me a ring of evasion, which should help a little against his AoEs, though what I really want is a Ring of Freedom of Movement. That way, no grapples for me!

I need something that stops his mind blast, as that's absolutely devesatating. I think he's a sorceror 10 (or wizard 10?), who likes to use summon undead + undead buffing spells, as well as blasty-type spells. Are there any items that give me a continuous protection from evil spell? That would keep him out of my head and keep his summons from touching me.

Spells, defensive:
Contingency+ what? I'd go teleport, except that we're on a ship, that he's captain of. Nowhere to really teleport. I'm thinking contingency + mislead. Then I run away/ DD somewhere safe while he interacts with my glamer. That way, depending on where we are, I can escape.

What spells are out there to keep me safe from an angry mindflayer?

Spells, offsensive:

I know he has some powerful item that protects him from mind-affecting spells. I'm wondering if it would be worth the dispel check to suppress it, then hit him with a Geas/Quest (no save!).

His saves are fort 8 to 10, ref 10 or 11, and will 17 to 20.

Ideally, I'd hit with a ray of enfeeblement, and then a ray of exhaustion. Unfortunately, the former allows a save in 3.0, and the latter doesn't exist. Squidface only has 14 str, so I could consievably put him to 0 str in a round, which in 3.0 kills him. Not that I want to kill him; just prevent him from killing me.

Dex damage could be another good way to go, namely shivering touch. Unfortunately, he has 24 or 26 dex.

I've got sculpt spell as a feat, so I could poorman's forcecage with wall of iron. Maybe solid fog and stinking cloud, followed by the ball of iron.

Ulzgoroth
2007-07-22, 11:34 PM
Not exactly helpful, but what's an Illithid with ten class levels doing in an ECL 11 group?

Inyssius Tor
2007-07-22, 11:35 PM
Well, mind blank will keep him out of your head in every meaning save the literal one...

How about a helmet?

StickMan
2007-07-22, 11:35 PM
wait if he is a PC how does he have 10 level of sorcerer or wizard, mindflayer have start at like level 12 with hit dice and level adjustment?

I ask this so I can think something up and for clarity.

SadisticFishing
2007-07-22, 11:37 PM
You *cannot* stay partied with an Illithid without conflict. It is in their nature to betray and such. Plus a wizard 10 illithid is not ECL 10-11, it's ECL 25.

Sorry to sound so negative, but I've read a lot about Mind Flayers, and I think your best answer is to kill him in his sleep. Or leave the party, or ask him to leave the party. It is self-destructive to play a character that's willing to kill and eat your party, and show him that, because though he may want to play a Mind Flayer, it doesn't work, flat out. :(

Glyphic
2007-07-22, 11:43 PM
First off, you have to play a game of deception. He has to know you're able to stop him, but if you tell him how you're going to stop him you're pretty boned.

I also have to agree with others. The mind flayer being ECL 10 is incorrect unless he's using some progression like those in savage species or something. Also, him being willing to eat your brains causes party strife and mistrust, slowing the game down because you as a wizard cannot be caught defenseless with a threat that powerful constantly around. Ideally, the party is supposed to bruise and batter each other, bt still have fun and work as a team when it comes down to it. Least for the games I play. Anything else, for me, slows the game down too much.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-07-22, 11:44 PM
Illithid... with thralls... on a ship. Is he supposed to be Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean?

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-22, 11:46 PM
Well, mindflayers are one of those races whose HD have associated casting; in the case of this particular one, he's sorceror or wizard, rather than psion.

So from what I can figure out, he's got 8 HD of illithid, followed by another 2 of caster. Still, he'd be what, ECL 17? We've done some serious powergaming in this campaign, though, as well as most of us having 20 or higher ability scores (ugh, don't ask), so it's a little closer. Also, also, we're really, really abusing the mechanics. I have an artificer cohort, for instance. The party psion is a thrallherd, the cleric has got divine metamagic. We're even using variant races. The thrallherd is a golden halfling; -2 str, +2 char, +2 int, small size, with a diplo bonus.



Illithid... with thralls... on a ship. Is he supposed to be Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean?

Yes. Except our ship flies in space.
Also, the ship has some sort of creature trapped in it that pilots the ship.


First off, you have to play a game of deception. He has to know you're able to stop him, but if you tell him how you're going to stop him you're pretty boned.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. I'd like to demonstrate that I can take him down, without informing him how I'll do it.


I also have to agree with others. The mind flayer being ECL 10 is incorrect unless he's using some progression like those in savage species or something. Also, him being willing to eat your brains causes party strife and mistrust, slowing the game down because you as a wizard cannot be caught defenseless with a threat that powerful constantly around. Ideally, the party is supposed to bruise and batter each other, bt still have fun and work as a team when it comes down to it. Least for the games I play. Anything else, for me, slows the game down too much.

The mindflayer is certainly not ECL 10, not by a long shot.
I think the major issue here is that I'm a little more interested in roleplaying, and the others don't care if they're thralls or not, since their characters are essentially "I hit the monster."


Anyway, is there anyway for a level 11 wizard to pose a threat to an Illithid with 10 caster levels?
Ideally, he's a sorceror. That way, I'll learn what spells he's casting, and know his arsenal. If he's a wizard... I'll have to rely on cleverness.

ClericofPhwarrr
2007-07-22, 11:52 PM
Yes. Except our ship flies in space.

In that case, the easiest way is for you to challenge him to a game of dice. If you win, he doesn't get to eat your brain. Not the safest way, but the easiest.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-07-22, 11:53 PM
You can pull a page from the dri**t books... Harkel Harpel beat an Illithid by using a specific use of Polymorph to replace his rear quarters with his brain and vice versa. Keeps your brain out of the cone of mind burst and gives him a very nasty surprise when he tries to go for the goods...

AslanCross
2007-07-22, 11:56 PM
Unless he somehow loses his taste for brains, I see no way he won't try to eat yours.

JackMage666
2007-07-22, 11:56 PM
Well, mindflayers are one of those races whose HD have associated casting; in the case of this particular one, he's sorceror or wizard, rather than psion.

Mind Flayers don't have associative casting. Thay have some natural psi-like abilities, usable at will, but no associative casting. He's a Level 2 caster, at most.


So from what I can figure out, he's got 8 HD of illithid, followed by another 2 of caster. Still, he'd be what, ECL 17? We've done some serious powergaming in this campaign, though, as well as most of us having 20 or higher ability scores (ugh, don't ask), so it's a little closer. Also, also, we're really, really abusing the mechanics. I have an artificer cohort, for instance. The party psion is a thrallherd, the cleric has got divine metamagic. We're even using variant races. The thrallherd is a golden halfling; -2 str, +2 char, +2 int, small size, with a diplo bonus.
Yep, ECL 17. Basically, you're protection vs him is that he doesn't understand the rules, and made his character too strong. If he tries to attack you, remind the DM, and his character is erased from time for being too overpowered!

Mike_Lemmer
2007-07-23, 12:19 AM
My question is, how the hell did he get 3 PCs as thralls?

Or better yet, how the hell did these PCs agree OOC to be his thralls?

Xuincherguixe
2007-07-23, 12:24 AM
I think the thing to do is convince the Mind Flayer that it's useful having you all around even if you do have tasty brains. Because you kill all this other stuff, that may well have even tastier brains, and certainly you bring a large supply at the very least.

I mean you're adventurers after all.

Diggorian
2007-07-23, 12:26 AM
The DM maybe just as defensive about the consistency of his story. Sudden paradoxes that erase the Flayer I wouldnt count on.

In your boots, I'd choose spells to incapacitate or somehow dominate the thralls that guard him then do the coup de grace in his sleep/trance/whenever he's vulnerable. Go to control his thralls in game and out of game remind the players how much juicy XP a flayer's worth, they've gotta be a little resentful of being slaves. If the DM has allowed thralling PCs, he may be open to PC killing.

It sounds like you want to simply protect yourself and not rock the boat (the space boat that is :smallamused: , is this Spelljammer?) but your lvl 10 mage to a ECL 17 illithid is red wine-marinated prime rib. By his power and influence over the group alone you're already his slave as I see it.

MeklorIlavator
2007-07-23, 12:26 AM
To eat your brains he has to grapple you, correct? Then contingency: shivering touch(without his knowledge, and preferably maximised), set for whenever someone successfully grapples you. 3d6 Dex Damage is nothing to laugh at(unless its someone else). Note this is defiantly a stretch on the normal rules, but with everything else that's going on in this campaign, it will probably pass. After all, you can always talk to the DM about this character when the others aren't there. He might not be completely firm on the rules if he's letting this thing in the campaign.

Or if you want to be proactive, wait for him to go to sleep, then cast shivering touch, and something to make sure his thralls can't get to you. Maybe wall of iron/stone/force/whatever. Or Rays of stupidity(intelligence damage), if your really mean.

horseboy
2007-07-23, 12:44 AM
Polymorph him into a squirrel.

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-23, 12:48 AM
*cough*the illithid is the DM's dad's character*cough*

JackMage666
2007-07-23, 12:50 AM
...Oh...

Guess thats why he can play a LA+15 creature (Regular Illithid +7, with another +8 since he gets Castinging added onto his racial HD as well. That is not normal, I promise you.)

MeklorIlavator
2007-07-23, 12:57 AM
*cough*the illithid is the DM's dad's character*cough*

Ah, the greater, though less well known version of the DM's girlfriend syndrome. If he's going that far, nothing you do will really matter. Unless you can talk to the DM out of game and bring this up.

Leon
2007-07-23, 02:03 AM
Mind Bank to keep your thoughts your own
Assay Resistance to beat the spell resistance
Spells to target his worst save and lower it
Baleful Polymorph - even if it passes the the will save a Toad cant eat your brains

Roupe
2007-07-23, 02:29 AM
charm monster/person? ,or succesful diplomacy and tell him not to.

Behold_the_Void
2007-07-23, 02:36 AM
If you use Baleful Polymorph on him while he's asleep he will be denied his will save entirely, thus allowing you to squirrel him. If you prepare a few other such spells, you can take care of the rest of the party as well. And then you can go find a new group.

Inyssius Tor
2007-07-23, 02:39 AM
Charm monster has a Will save, and if there's anything an ECL 17 caster has it's a good Will save. Baleful polymorph would have considerably better odds, especially if'n you start the fight with Con-weakening spells (and save the poly for that contingency).

EDIT: The guy above me has the right of it. If you want to do this, though, I'd see if you can slip some kind of contingency onto him while he's asleep. One command word and POOF-- he's a frog.

EDIT EDIT: Don't tell him about it, though; that would take all the fun out of it!

Dausuul
2007-07-23, 07:19 AM
I second contingency/shivering touch. (Normally I would never recommend using shivering touch cheese, but if you're fighting critters 6 or 7 levels above you, you can't afford to be honorable.) However, since you aren't high enough level to contingency a maximized version, I suggest using the Contingent Spell feat and setting up two of them. He might survive 3d6 Dex damage if he's lucky, but the odds of his surviving 6d6 are slim to none.

lord_khaine
2007-07-23, 08:22 AM
contingency says the spell has to affect yourself, im pretty sure shivering touch wouldnt fall in under that.

as for offensive spells, i would recomend using a quickend if you can get your hands on a rod of quickening, then nuking him with a couple of orb spells.
as it is he has to much spell resistance to be taken down otherwise.

but better yet, buy a scythe, and explain to him you have a contingency teleport, for getting away if he tries anything funny, and that you will come back later in the night then to coup de grace him with the scythe.

Wolf_Shade
2007-07-23, 08:42 AM
Over the course of however long it takes, set up a bunch of contingency spells, preferably ones that do heavy damage to structures and a dimensional anchor. Make the contingency you are no longer on the ship. Dimension Door off the ship to a friendly little inn. Your spells go off, the ship is destroyed, no one else can port out because of dimensional anchor, and there is no party strife because there is no more party. Have everyone else roll up new characters and go on your merry way.

Just Alex
2007-07-23, 08:55 AM
Cover every inch of the hull in Explosive Runes traps. I don't recall if they affect inanimate objects, but even if not, it'll hurt like no one's business. If they do affect objects, keep a quickened area version of Dispel Magic to set them all off at once.

Krrth
2007-07-23, 09:06 AM
Well....you could always just become a lich (if you are evil). Then, he can try to eat your brains as much as he wants....woun't affect you at all.

Leon
2007-07-23, 09:15 AM
Contingent Teleport - when your grappeled you teleport (far far away), preferably so far that you end up out side of that game and find a new one where the DM isnt going to screw with the party by some favoring players over others(no matter what the realtion to the DM is)

lord_khaine
2007-07-23, 10:33 AM
do remember that at his lv he can max contingency a lv 3 spell, (wich is why my suggestion was a bluff, in the hope that the ilithid player didnt know either)

as a the spell you actualy take, pick gaseous form, it should keep your brain save.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-23, 10:58 AM
Lvl 11 wizard: K. Well, to make the illithid uncomfortable, you could major image something eating his brain next time he eats a brain :smallbiggrin: . You reach with your tentacles... and feel tentacles on the back of your head. You suck... the back of his head opens. You feel something being sucked out the back of your head...

Mirror image makes for temporary invulnerability, after which you can pwn.

Good grief! He's CHEATING! :smallfurious:

K, this isn't on SRD, but suffice it to say: Illithid HD don't stack for casting. That makes him CR 10, with a so-so fort save. He can cast as a level 2 wizard or sorc. So. Own his ass with your spells.

Or, he's CR 18/ECL 25. Then, either leave, throw a book at the DM, kill him in his sleep, or try some of the cheese. His fort save is the gimp, so baleful polymorph is good. You have an artificer cohort? Check the infusions. They're useful. Alos, custom crafted items often work. Boost your will save as much as you can, maybe cast Superior resistance at the beginning of each day. Imaginative use of alter self might work.

Maybe Teleport out, and run like hell.

mostlyharmful
2007-07-23, 11:20 AM
assay resistance + Geas, see if he likes being the thrall. Obey my will, release all your mindslaves, scrub the deck..... just hope like hell he never gets hit by a greater dispell magic..... :smalleek:

Arbitrarity
2007-07-23, 11:22 AM
Geas is 10 minute casting time. :smallconfused:

magicwalker
2007-07-23, 11:23 AM
Maybe the DM's father is effectively playing a NPC role.. instead of having a DMPC. It sounds like the other players have already given in to his demands, so maybe that's part of the plot.

It sounds like you either should kill him. Or give in to his demands, because I doubt he wants to kill you as much as he wants to make you his minion (as he did with the other players).

I think the DM's dad is facilitating a role in the storyline.

mostlyharmful
2007-07-23, 11:29 AM
Geas is 10 minute casting time. :smallconfused:

I realise that there may be a few teensey weensey problems with the plan as it currently stands... however... I just love the idea of a level 11 Wiz taking command of an epic Mindflayer and all its minions. A smart wizard should be able to come up with something allong the line and it's beautifully poetic justice for a character with TWICE your ECL threatening you with brainwashing to have the tables turned.

Keld Denar
2007-07-23, 11:50 AM
See if you can summon a couple shadows. Create Greater Undead does that, I'm pretty sure. Whip up a couple of shadows and hide them in the hull of the ship. Then make a few more. Then make a few more after that. Just for safety sake, make a few more after that.

If he starts acting all funky, sick your shadows on him. All of them. A medium creature can be attacked by 17 shadows (8 surrounding, 9 at 5' up) and even 9 more underneath with 50% miss chance from full cover. They are immune to illithid mind blast, since they are undead. They attack with incorp touch attacks, so there is a decent chance they hit, at least 3 of them or so. If they can do enough strength damage, a) that will severly cripple his grapple check, and b) if he takes enough str damage, he's dead. There are no saves, no spell resistant, and they are virtually immune to everything a standard illithid can do. If he really has 10 levels of wizard on top of his illithid stuff, he might be able to counter afew (control undead, incorp nova, transdimensional web, etc) but there is no way he'll be able to stop 17-26 shadows literally coming out of the woodwork. You would have to know it was coming though, because summoning that much undead would take a couple days.

Unfortunately, I just looked it up, and its an 8th level spell, plus you'd need control undead yourself. Maybe looking for an outsider you could planar bind that can create greater undead x/day or at will. Then you'd just cast control undead until you get em all, and pre-emptive strike his squiddy face until he can't lift a finger.

You might have to take out the cleric too, so he doesn't turn/rebuke your hoarde, but that can be done with a lesser rod maximized shivering touch delivered via invisible familiar.

Lastly, good luck.

Dervag
2007-07-23, 12:32 PM
*cough*the illithid is the DM's dad's character*cough*Why are you even in this campaign again?

This sounds like you've got at least one party-breaking jerk in the campaign, and a DM who will conspire with the jerk to break the party. How is this going to be any fun?

....
2007-07-23, 12:57 PM
Get a really bright, bright light and anytime you feel a tentacle wriggling around your noggin, let him have it in the eyes.

Illithids don't do well with bright lights.

Or throw salt on him and dry up his muscousy coating.

cody.burton
2007-07-23, 01:40 PM
Geas is 10 minute casting time. :smallconfused:

Then do it while he's asleep.

Saint George
2007-07-23, 01:54 PM
Well, this won't exactly save your life... but it will at least get you revenge.

Just tatoo explosive runes on your skull. Something along the lines of "If you can read this then you are too close". Illithid leans in, wraps his tentacles around your head while you are asleep, BOOM! Kalamari!

Just Alex
2007-07-23, 03:49 PM
One step better than Explosive Runes. As a pure act of spite, use a metamagic rod of Maximize on an Empowered Death Throes. Even if he survives it, see how much he likes having a 40 ft hole in his ship. Just be sure to re-up the spell every day.

Jothki
2007-07-23, 04:31 PM
Contingency/Disintegrate on your own brain, set to go off when you die.

lukelightning
2007-07-23, 04:39 PM
Cast a special curse on him to give him dyslexia...then he'll only try to eat your Brians.

Korias
2007-07-23, 04:45 PM
Contingency/Disintegrate on your own brain, set to go off when you die.

That would also kill the Mindflayer, as its got the brani inside him. And I distinctly remember that if everybody's joined hands and you cast disintigrate on one, they all die...

horseboy
2007-07-23, 04:46 PM
Are you on a Spelljammer?

Korias
2007-07-23, 04:51 PM
Not that I knew of. It was mainly a fluke that we were killing hippies.

Another solution might be to scribe a Symbol of Insanity on your head.

SurlySeraph
2007-07-23, 05:32 PM
^ I like that and I like this.


Well, this won't exactly save your life... but it will at least get you revenge.

Just tatoo explosive runes on your skull. Something along the lines of "If you can read this then you are too close". Illithid leans in, wraps his tentacles around your head while you are asleep, BOOM! Kalamari!

Korias
2007-07-23, 06:46 PM
Actualy, Scribe BOTH onto your head. That way, if one doesnt work, use the other.

Mike_Lemmer
2007-07-23, 07:09 PM
It'd work, as long as you shave your head and wear a hood at all times.

Korias
2007-07-23, 07:14 PM
Why Not? Most mages are bald because of the fact that they pull their hair out from stress. Like all corporate buisnessmen who are balding.:smallbiggrin:

Severedevil
2007-07-23, 11:53 PM
Pass him a book or map trapped with a Sepia Snake Sigil, preferably heightened appropriately to your level. He's at your mercy for a week and a half or until you dismiss the effect... that's plenty of time to make your point. An aberration with ten hit dice should have a terrible reflex save.

Plus, an illithid in suspended animation probably can't maintain mental control over your thrall'd party.

Matthew
2007-07-24, 09:59 PM
You can pull a page from the dri**t books... Harkel Harpel beat an Illithid by using a specific use of Polymorph to replace his rear quarters with his brain and vice versa. Keeps your brain out of the cone of mind burst and gives him a very nasty surprise when he tries to go for the goods...

I know I am going to regret asking this, but "what?"

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-25, 12:14 AM
Geas: Good news, 1a casting time in 3.0. Bad news, he has an item that won't let it work.

Contingency dispel magic (area of affect) upon death + dozens upon dozens of explosive runes: Incredibly good idea. Maybe I can turn the whole ship nova! Bad news, if anyone ELSE fails their caster check on dispel....

Contigency polymorph something without brains: Excellent..... I'd like to have a contigency dragon form, so when he grapples me, *poof* colossal red wyrm. Not for a few more levels....

He has 24 dex; I'll need a maximized empowered or two maximized shivering touches to wipe that out. His DC18 mind blast is scary; as his ability to dominate.

While I COULD kill him when he's asleep or whatever, the DM totally would pull some bull**** move and say it didn't work. I'd also have to contend with a bunch of ECL 11 thralls. Besides that, I don't really want to kill him. I just need a serious (for him serious!), IC reason why I should feel comfortable working with him, as well as give my character some leeway to talk back to squidface.


Thanks for all the advice.

BardicDuelist
2007-07-25, 12:23 AM
This is slightly off topic, but how do mind flayers enthrall and dominate? I thought they only had charm person, detect thoughts, levitate, and plane shift, as spell like abilities.

Diggorian
2007-07-25, 12:35 AM
There are several versions of Illithid stats amongst the various splatbooks.

Dervag
2007-07-25, 01:41 AM
While I COULD kill him when he's asleep or whatever, the DM totally would pull some bull**** move and say it didn't work. I'd also have to contend with a bunch of ECL 11 thralls. Besides that, I don't really want to kill him. I just need a serious (for him serious!), IC reason why I should feel comfortable working with him, as well as give my character some leeway to talk back to squidface.

Thanks for all the advice.I ask again, why do you expect this game to be any fun?

I can only assume you know something I don't about how this is going to work. Right now you've got all the hallmarks of a rather nasty railroad campaign in which one of the PCs has no compunction about killing other PCs, is in a position to give other PCs orders, and is exponentially more powerful than the PCs to boot. And to make matters even worse, you expect the DM to conspire with this PC's player to maintain his control.

I would not enjoy any such game; and I really wish I knew how this is supposed to be any fun.

Caelestion
2007-07-25, 05:20 AM
Well, at the risk of revealing my tentacled persuasions (hentai lovers get your minds out of the gutter now!), illithid psions actually stack their eight HD +1 with any actual psion levels.

Illithid wizards? Well, have fun :)

lord_khaine
2007-07-25, 05:42 AM
yes but he is a sorcerer, apperently he has 10 lvs of sorcerer besides his illithid HD.
honestly this doesnt sound like a fun campaign, and i would suggest you either take a talk with the gm, or find something more fun.

Kizara
2007-07-25, 06:12 AM
You're a 3.0 wizard? Ah, the glory days.
An ability score of 20+ by lvl 11+ is absolutely nothing. You should have that at lvl 8 with no powergaming, cool races or magic.

Option 1: Become a lich. No brains per-se.

Option 2: Contingent haste anyone? Since you just got hasted, you now have an extra partial action; use it to cast whatever spell is most suitable. Use it to cast time stop (win).

Option 3: Boost your DC's to new and crazy heights. human + 2 from levels + 6 from headband= 26 int (+8), +4 spell focus and greater spell focus (transmutation), and you have a DC 10+4+8+4=26 Polymorph Other. A nice, non-lethal way of showing him who's boss. And that's without any fun PrCs or items.

Option 4:
A) create a large number of shadows (undead)
B) Mass haste your shadows

Enjoy touch-attack based mass strength damage, bitch.

Option 5:
Buy a scroll of Gate. Use it to Gate in a Solar, since its a summoned creature it acts immediately, use it to cast Gate (as part of its 20th-level casting ability) and Gate in another Solar. Repeat until you have an arbitarily large number of Solars that are loyal to you for 1 round/level.

Remember, that Circle of Protection (whatever) will stop mental influence/domination effects. So that's a real easy way to shut down his thrall's.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-25, 07:13 AM
Hmmm... barely above average charisma, WTF?

10 levels of sorceror and 20 charisma?!

Furthermore, compared to a human, the equivalent of 20 dex?!

My brain hurts. I'm gonna go with Coup-de-grace and teleport. Or any sort of domination you please.

Make sure that the CDG is with disintegrate. Because DC 164 fort save or die is too good to pass up (average).

Good grief. Did he just pull the CR 17 illithid sorceror out of the MM, and give it another sorceror level?

Soo.. when asleep, one is automatically considered willing. Therefore, what have we got with will saves? Charm monster, bestow curse, few others. Ok. Let's curse... actions, or dexterity, or charisma? Maximized touch of idiocy, plus cursing charisma, is -12 to charisma, less than he can cast with, as well as reducing the save DC of his mind blast to 13.

lukelightning
2007-07-25, 09:14 AM
I ask again, why do you expect this game to be any fun?

Quoted For Truth.

The solution to this problem is to not play this game.

randomguyonfire
2007-07-25, 11:54 AM
i agree. from my perspective it looks like you only have a few options

A) do something nasty to him in his sleep (polymorph dominate etc)

B) rush him with shadows or some other creature under your control

C) talk to the dm

i think you should try c since if he has the DM on his side anything you try to do to him will fail. but if you talk to the DM you might get him to stop being so biased, especially if you get the other players on your side. I mean they can't be that happy about being this guys slaves right? i mean it's only a matter of time until he orders them to do something they don't want to do. but if i were in your place i would have just went and found another game.

TheLogman
2007-07-25, 12:22 PM
The Slayer PrC are pure Anti-flayers. They get Favored Enemy (Mind Flayer) automatically, and get it more all the time, any flayer trying to eat his brain gets nauseous, and leaves, and his Capstone rebounds the Mind Blast power when shot at him, which I doubt I need to remind you is the Mind Flayer's favorite power.

Without access to an Elan Ranger that became a Slayer, or at least the ability to hire one, remember the the Flayer HAS to get to you AND grapple well to eat your brain. Get stuff that makes you hard to Grapple, and stay away from melee range. Also, keep the fighter-type nearby to assist in grapple, and make sure everyone is close by. Oh, and if anyone in your party can cast Aversion (the spell), get someone to cast it on him, and make him Averse to Brains. Now, he can't eat brains, and will stave to death, but his will save is pretty good, just hope he rolls well, or that you can get a lot of castings off.

Interestingly enough, a 4th level Elan Ranger qualifies for the Slayer Prestige Class, since he gets Bab Equal to his HD, (+4, the amount you need for slayer), Track, (Also needed for slayer), and Knowledge (Dungeons) as a class skill (4 Ranks of which you need for slayer)

my_evil_twin
2007-07-25, 03:30 PM
This sounds like a seriously screwed-up campaign, and an ego-stroking vehicle for the guy playing the illithid. If that player and the DM won't see reason concerning a mind flayer's ECL, you should consider leaving the campaign.

That said, here's what I'd do in your wizard's situation. First, you want to get the cleric PC alone. I believe, although I'm not absolutely sure, that dispel magic is enough to break the flayer's control. Charm the cleric if you have to, but you shouldn't have to unless he's nuts.

Now, see what you can do about having the cleric cast mark of justice on the flayer in its sleep. Depending on how broad the DM thinks you can make one mark, it may take multiple castings, but you should be able to prevent the flayer from attacking or dominating you or the cleric.

Now you are in a situation where you can coexist relatively peacefully with a mind flayer. I'd still sleep with one eye open.

Lolzords
2007-07-25, 03:35 PM
I'm not sure if it's an actual item or if it was homebrewed, but I think there's a liquid which smells repulsive to Illithids, I believe the effect was it keeps all Illithids at least 15ft away from the liquid.

Arbitrarity
2007-07-25, 03:39 PM
Just a funny thought: Put an Illithid in a plane of extremely limited dimension (2 ft*2 ft or so, just big enough to hold his body). Make it a non-euclidean plane, wherein space is curved so that the plane is a sphere. However, since space is curved, the body is as well, and light, etc. Therefore, he can see (and touch) the back of his head.

Leave him there until he gets hungry.

Keld Denar
2007-07-25, 06:38 PM
Just a funny thought: Put an Illithid in a plane of extremely limited dimension (2 ft*2 ft or so, just big enough to hold his body). Make it a non-euclidean plane, wherein space is curved so that the plane is a sphere. However, since space is curved, the body is as well, and light, etc. Therefore, he can see (and touch) the back of his head.

Leave him there until he gets hungry.

Clever idea......full of irony and all that....except that mind flayers can plane shift as a spell like at will. Anywhere you send him, he'll be back in a round or so, although he's have to find your location still, but that's not hard with a teleport since he's that high of a level sorcerer. So, 2 rounds tops. Just long enough to put your head between your legs and kiss it goodbye.

Cruiser1
2007-07-25, 07:29 PM
Clever idea......full of irony and all that....except that mind flayers can plane shift as a spell like at will.
Ok, so make the plane have a permanent anti-magic field effect. That will prevent spells, spell like abilities, and (Su) effects from working, but (Ex) effects (which the brain sucking tentacles presumably are) will still be available, allowing the mind flayer to be able to eat his own brains but not plane shift back to get you. :smallamused:

Moff Chumley
2007-07-25, 07:52 PM
Having never played 3.0, and not in the mood to go digging through books, my recomendation is as follows: go to the far reaches, stay long enough to pick up the psuedonatural template and a few levels, and always wear a helmet. I don't care if it's invisible or not, just wear the stupid helmet. Yeesh.:smallcool:

Umbral_Arcanist
2007-07-25, 08:28 PM
I know I am going to regret asking this, but "what?"
See the wizard had spent alot of time studying mind flayers and knew he gonna fight one, so he decided to switch the contents of his bowels with those of his skull. he got close enough that the cone shaped blast only hit his upper body (and thus not his brain) and when the mind flayer tried to eat his brains it got...something else...

(Hey artistic license, it's a book)

My advice is to invest in hoards of zombies to eat his brains...

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-25, 09:09 PM
yes but he is a sorcerer, apperently he has 10 lvs of sorcerer besides his illithid HD.
honestly this doesnt sound like a fun campaign, and i would suggest you either take a talk with the gm, or find something more fun.

Actually, I think they replaced the illithid HD. Associated sorc levels in place of psion levels. Don't ask me why psion was replaced with sorceror.

We've only had a couple sessions so far, and if everyone shows up next session (which I'm hoping they won't), there will be something like 10 or 11 people sitting around the table, half with a tenuous grasp of the rules. In that case, I'll probably call it quits, or see if the DM can't split it into two sessions. A half minute of combat takes hours.

Behold_the_Void
2007-07-26, 02:21 AM
Actually, I think they replaced the illithid HD. Associated sorc levels in place of psion levels. Don't ask me why psion was replaced with sorceror.

We've only had a couple sessions so far, and if everyone shows up next session (which I'm hoping they won't), there will be something like 10 or 11 people sitting around the table, half with a tenuous grasp of the rules. In that case, I'll probably call it quits, or see if the DM can't split it into two sessions. A half minute of combat takes hours.

Yeah, I really say just find a new game. That game sounds like it has the approximate appeal of working retail for equivalent hours.

Just Alex
2007-07-26, 03:20 AM
Actually, I think they replaced the illithid HD. Associated sorc levels in place of psion levels. Don't ask me why psion was replaced with sorceror.

We've only had a couple sessions so far, and if everyone shows up next session (which I'm hoping they won't), there will be something like 10 or 11 people sitting around the table, half with a tenuous grasp of the rules. In that case, I'll probably call it quits, or see if the DM can't split it into two sessions. A half minute of combat takes hours.

If the campaign is ready to disintegrate, be sure to make it super disintegrated. Use that Explosive Runes + Dispel trick, then talk a lot of trash to the mindflayer. It'll be hilarious. Take the extra step and hand a sealed envelope with your plan inside at one session, then at a later session when the plan is "forced" to fruition, have him open the envelope. The look of shock, I assure you, is well worth the wait.

Evil DM Mark3
2007-07-26, 07:49 AM
Aruuga, Aruuga, abandon ship, I mean game, abandon game.

Seriously

Tor the Fallen
2007-07-26, 04:05 PM
If the campaign is ready to disintegrate, be sure to make it super disintegrated. Use that Explosive Runes + Dispel trick, then talk a lot of trash to the mindflayer. It'll be hilarious. Take the extra step and hand a sealed envelope with your plan inside at one session, then at a later session when the plan is "forced" to fruition, have him open the envelope. The look of shock, I assure you, is well worth the wait.

Yeah.
Actually, since the illithid communicates by telepathy, his player passes notes. I'm thinking of passing him a note with "Explosive Runes" written on it a couple hundred times.

Tor the Fallen
2007-08-08, 04:12 AM
Ugh, this game just went from bad to worse. Railroad plot, DM cheats nonstop, doesn't know the rules, makes any effective tactics ineffectual, unfamiliar with what magic does and the threats it poses other than "fireball fireball wheeeee!", vastly underwealthed party (seriously, level 12, and we've all got around 30k in items, tops), doesn't take criticism, or even a "that's not how it works..." well. At all.

Leon
2007-08-08, 04:56 AM
Bail Bail Bail

factotum
2007-08-08, 05:07 AM
Ugh, this game just went from bad to worse. Railroad plot, DM cheats nonstop, doesn't know the rules, makes any effective tactics ineffectual, unfamiliar with what magic does and the threats it poses other than "fireball fireball wheeeee!", vastly underwealthed party (seriously, level 12, and we've all got around 30k in items, tops), doesn't take criticism, or even a "that's not how it works..." well. At all.

Then why are you still there? Even if you're desperate for a game it doesn't seem worth putting yourself through all this.

Yeril
2007-08-08, 06:04 AM
Maximised explosive runes tattooed on the back of your head (7 times)

Citizen Joe
2007-08-08, 08:18 AM
Take a moment to talk to the illithid from a dominant stance:

You: "Listen, squidface. You talk the talk about eating my brains, but you haven't yet. So that tells me that you need me for your agenda. It also tells me that you're just bluffing. I'm more valuable to you alive and casting spells than as a snack which will be gone in a few moments. So can the brain eating threats and focus on our collective goals or eat my brain already. My clone is already set up to report your presence and location to the elder brain, and as I recall, it doesn't take too kindly to your activities."