Another Paladin Fighter multiclass

[Murdu]

Hi!

I'm an old 3.5 player who have just got into 5e. I'm playing a sword and board paladin and plan to get to level 6 and then multiclass to fighter level 3 for the Battle Master. This is mostly a flavor thing and I'm not looking for suggestions to rather dip into Warlock or Sorcerer or anything. My DM has allowed for class progression beyond level 20 (a long time from now, if we even get there) so nothing from paladin class progression will be lost, just postponed. My question is: Do you think the ASI at fighter level 4 worth it or should I revert back to paladin progression as soon as I get Battle Master?

We got a free feat at level 1 and I took Resilient CON, and plan on taking shield mastery at level 4. The next ASIs will be spent on, in no decided order, Sentinel feat and CHA +2, getting it to 18. And either Resilient STR + Heavy Armor Master IF I go for fighter level 4 OR STR +2 if not.

What do you think? I'm sorry if this is a jumbled mess.

[Paeleus]

I could be wrong, but I don't think you can take a feat multiple times by RAW. This point could be moot if your GM is *ahem* game.

Heavy Armor master is a great feat at early levels, but falls flat fairly quickly starting a mid levels. Since you're going sword and board, might I suggest the Shield Master feat? Gives a bonus to dex saves (a common AoE save for spells), a bootleg version of a Rogue's Evasion, and something to use your bonus action on when not casting a Smite spell to cause to enemy to be prone, thus granting advantage for your turn. Also, a +2 in your main attack stat is never a bad thing.

Hoped this helped!

[Murdu]

I could be wrong, but I don't think you can take a feat multiple times by RAW. This point could be moot if your GM is *ahem* game.

Heavy Armor master is a great feat at early levels, but falls flat fairly quickly starting a mid levels. Since you're going sword and board, might I suggest the Shield Master feat? Gives a bonus to dex saves (a common AoE save for spells), a bootleg version of a Rogue's Evasion, and something to use your bonus action on when not casting a Smite spell to cause to enemy to be prone, thus granting advantage for your turn. Also, a +2 in your main attack stat is never a bad thing.

Hoped this helped!

I am planning on taking Shield Master asap. What you say about Heavy Armor Master makes sense. Guess I might just drop the 4th level of fighter and drop taking Heavy Armor master later on. Thanks!

[Deleted]

I could be wrong, but I don't think you can take a feat multiple times by RAW. This point could be moot if your GM is *ahem* game.

Heavy Armor master is a great feat at early levels, but falls flat fairly quickly starting a mid levels. Since you're going sword and board, might I suggest the Shield Master feat? Gives a bonus to dex saves (a common AoE save for spells), a bootleg version of a Rogue's Evasion, and something to use your bonus action on when not casting a Smite spell to cause to enemy to be prone, thus granting advantage for your turn. Also, a +2 in your main attack stat is never a bad thing.

Hoped this helped!

You can not take a feat multiple times unless it says you can (which I don't recall any that do).

Shield Master feat is downright ridiculous on Strength based Sword and Board. Probably the number one feat as it gives you a controller ability that grants advantage usable with a bonus action.

Also, OP, I wouldn't multiclass at those levels. If you aren't getting anything mechanical that you really want from the MC you should just stick to a single class and fluff what you have.

You also dont need to max out your stats, 18s are good for what the game expects you to be able to do. Especially on the paladin.

Instead of MC I would rather go with the feat that gives maneuvers and superiority die (I'm not the biggest fan of this feat but it beats MC if you are looking for fluff).

[Specter]

You've already got the best paladin feature at level 6, so I wouldn't worry. Get fighter 4.

[Deleted]

You've already got the best paladin feature at level 6, so I wouldn't worry. Get fighter 4.

Illogical.

All paladin feature are best features (seriously the class is packed), especially the Ancient's paladin.

More paladin means more smite but also more spells (some really cool ones).

Get them as fast as possible, then play around. Though Fighter 4 is a waste, it doesn't expand what you can do and may be the most useless multiclass for a paladin.

The paladin can already *do* damage, and that's all the Fighter really gives you.

Just take the Martial Adept feat (or whatever its called) and stay Paladin.

[Murdu]

Illogical.

All paladin feature are best features (seriously the class is packed), especially the Ancient's paladin.

More paladin means more smite but also more spells (some really cool ones).

Get them as fast as possible, then play around. Though Fighter 4 is a waste, it doesn't expand what you can do and may be the most useless multiclass for a paladin.

The paladin can already *do* damage, and that's all the Fighter really gives you.

Just take the Martial Adept feat (or whatever its called) and stay Paladin.

Is it really that bad? Coming from 3.5 5e seems so balanced that changes like these seem almost inconsequential. I guess I'll need to reevaluate the MC.

[Deleted]

Is it really that bad? Coming from 3.5 5e seems so balanced that changes like these seem almost inconsequential. I guess I'll need to reevaluate the MC.

In 5e the floor for each class is much higher than in 3.5. In 3e.5 if you didn't optimize you got left behind much of the time, even when the DM didn't try to leave you behind. The game wasn't exactly fair to players, it took a good DM to know when to deal with things.

In 5e, not only is each class waaaay more balanced versus the game, the optimization ceiling is also lower. So even if you grabbed more ways to *deal damage* you are going over a threshold that will either cause the DM to have to boost encounters (boring damage soaks), you will not be using all your features, or you will have times when you are dealing insanes amount of damage BUT you area dealing way over the target's HP and you wasted 2 to 3 levels to do the exact same thing you did before (do damage/kill).

5e is similar to 3e though, versatility is king. You can already keep up with your damage so branching out is a great thing.

Shield Master is a down right sick feat that gives you an almost At-Will shove (trip!) that is keyed off the thing you are already going to do (attack).

People like to theorycraft with 5e and they forget that 5e isn't working against the players like earlier games are. There are some problems with the game, but the Paladin fixes the biggest one (saving throw system).

If you must MC... Depending on your Dex, a MC to Rogue (which is just a tactical fighter now days) could do you some good. Expertise (Athletics) means you don't typically lose Athletics checks (broken feature honestly, but people don't mind it too much) and Cunning Action gives you a massive mobility boost. A Paladin with a 60' movement speed is damn scary.

[Murdu]

In 5e the floor for each class is much higher than in 3.5. In 3e.5 if you didn't optimize you got left behind much of the time, even when the DM didn't try to leave you behind. The game wasn't exactly fair to players, it took a good DM to know when to deal with things.

In 5e, not only is each class waaaay more balanced versus the game, the optimization ceiling is also lower. So even if you grabbed more ways to *deal damage* you are going over a threshold that will either cause the DM to have to boost encounters (boring damage soaks), you will not be using all your features, or you will have times when you are dealing insanes amount of damage BUT you area dealing way over the target's HP and you wasted 2 to 3 levels to do the exact same thing you did before (do damage/kill).

5e is similar to 3e though, versatility is king. You can already keep up with your damage so branching out is a great thing.

Shield Master is a down right sick feat that gives you an almost At-Will shove (trip!) that is keyed off the thing you are already going to do (attack).

People like to theorycraft with 5e and they forget that 5e isn't working against the players like earlier games are. There are some problems with the game, but the Paladin fixes the biggest one (saving throw system).

If you must MC... Depending on your Dex, a MC to Rogue (which is just a tactical fighter now days) could do you some good. Expertise (Athletics) means you don't typically lose Athletics checks (broken feature honestly, but people don't mind it too much) and Cunning Action gives you a massive mobility boost. A Paladin with a 60' movement speed is damn scary.

This all seems logical enough. Thanks!

[PanosIs]

I'm going to go against the previous opinion and in favor of the fighter MC. You're just getting a ton of stuff for your buck. Really, I think the fighter is one of the best classes to multiclass into, as you get very relevant features in all levels. A second fighting style can get you +1 AC which is a huge deal in this edition, Second Wind is a useful swift heal, Action Surge gives you insane nova damage with 4 attacks which can all be smites provided you have the levels can make short work of most things, and, once you get Battle Master maneuvers, one of my favorite mechanics in this edition you can end up with a nova that is towards 4d8 (Weapon attacks) + 4d8 (Maneuvers) + 8d8 (Smites) which is pretty insane, of course a lot of resources but you get the point. Plus tripping enemies and attacking them with advantage is awesome.

Generally maneuvers give you a lot of versatility and modularity in your approach to combat, especially ones like Riposte can break the action economy pretty efficiently. In the end though, it's hard to go wrong in 5e, so do as you see fit with your character, it'll probably work out.

[Murdu]

I'm going to go against the previous opinion and in favor of the fighter MC. You're just getting a ton of stuff for your buck. Really, I think the fighter is one of the best classes to multiclass into, as you get very relevant features in all levels. A second fighting style can get you +1 AC which is a huge deal in this edition, Second Wind is a useful swift heal, Action Surge gives you insane nova damage with 4 attacks which can all be smites provided you have the levels can make short work of most things, and, once you get Battle Master maneuvers, one of my favorite mechanics in this edition you can end up with a nova that is towards 4d8 (Weapon attacks) + 4d8 (Maneuvers) + 8d8 (Smites) which is pretty insane, of course a lot of resources but you get the point. Plus tripping enemies and attacking them with advantage is awesome.

Generally maneuvers give you a lot of versatility and modularity in your approach to combat, especially ones like Riposte can break the action economy pretty efficiently. In the end though, it's hard to go wrong in 5e, so do as you see fit with your character, it'll probably work out.

I was thinking of, if I MC at all now, to go Riposte, Precision Attack, and Disarming attack. This way I can knock enemies prone with the shield because I already took Shield Master feat and disarm with maneuver should I wish, hopefully creating some more RP opportunities in combat.

What do you think of the ASI/feat at fighter lvl 4 though? Get it (either CHA from 16 to 18, STR from 18 to 20, or Sentinel feat, or go back to pala asap and spread those ASI/feats more out through pala progression?

[Deleted]

I'm going to go against the previous opinion and in favor of the fighter MC. You're just getting a ton of stuff for your buck. Really, I think the fighter is one of the best classes to multiclass into, as you get very relevant features in all levels. A second fighting style can get you +1 AC which is a huge deal in this edition, Second Wind is a useful swift heal, Action Surge gives you insane nova damage with 4 attacks which can all be smites provided you have the levels can make short work of most things, and, once you get Battle Master maneuvers, one of my favorite mechanics in this edition you can end up with a nova that is towards 4d8 (Weapon attacks) + 4d8 (Maneuvers) + 8d8 (Smites) which is pretty insane, of course a lot of resources but you get the point. Plus tripping enemies and attacking them with advantage is awesome.

Generally maneuvers give you a lot of versatility and modularity in your approach to combat, especially ones like Riposte can break the action economy pretty efficiently. In the end though, it's hard to go wrong in 5e, so do as you see fit with your character, it'll probably work out.

You are getting rather little. Fighter is perhaps the worst multiclass a Paladin can grab.

You can already do damage, you are adding a different way to do damage... The best way to explain this is...

A creature only has so much HP, doing more damage doesn't kill the creature more.

However whenever you have problems that HP damage can't solve (such as getting to a creature, not being able to hit, or countless other things) having versatility is worth so much more than doing 10 more damage because of how the game is already set up for you to kill things with your class.

It's like putting Nos into your grocery getter. You still have to go the speed limit so that nos system is never going to be of any real use in your grocery getter.

[gfishfunk]

If you do multiclass, I think you will gain some useful stuff from fighter, and it is not necessarily the worst multiclass for pallies as Deleted suggested (though listen to Deleted, easily one of the best posters on the board and hasn't even been posting here that long). Second Wind, Action Surge, a second fighting style, and maneuvers (ignore the extra damage and they are still really nice to have in the back pocket).

If you are going for flavor, Martial Adept does it poorly.

If you want a paladin that is more martial than magical / holy, go for it. And hit level 4.

My view:
If you are standing at Paladin 6/fighter 3, grab fighter 4 for the ASI. Fighter level 4 is better than Paladin level 7 --> IF you are standing at pally 6/fighter 3.
If you are standing at Paladin 6, thinking fighter 1-4, heavily consider Paladin 7-10, lots of good stuff.

I prefer having a strong flavor and then matching it with a good build. You will have it at paladin 6/fighter 4.

[Specter]

Illogical.

All paladin feature are best features (seriously the class is packed), especially the Ancient's paladin.

More paladin means more smite but also more spells (some really cool ones).

Get them as fast as possible, then play around. Though Fighter 4 is a waste, it doesn't expand what you can do and may be the most useless multiclass for a paladin.

The paladin can already *do* damage, and that's all the Fighter really gives you.

Just take the Martial Adept feat (or whatever its called) and stay Paladin.

Nah, Aura of Protection is better than 90% of pally's features (and comparable to other 10%). It could have easily been the Paladin's capstone. Having +4 on all saves and spreading that to all allies is better than the Monk's Diamond Soul.

Fighter gives you another fighting style (at least +1 AC), bonus action healing that can be used along with Lay on Hands, ACTION SURGE (all capital letters needed to show respect), and then dice, which along with damage, get you many more control options, like focusing enemies on you or making enemies frightened. And of course, making attacks that wouldn't hit, hit.

Prefer what you want, but there are many benefits to going Fighter on a pally.