Good melee cantrips?

[Alejandro]

- My PC (bard) recently picked up a strong magical sword
- I have a high Con/HP and Armor Class, so I'm not afraid to melee
- Soon, I might take Magic Initiate (Wizard) to get access to the Find Familiar spell
- I thought of, as one of the cantrips I would gain, taking Booming Blade to use with my new sword
- My GM hates Booming Blade (and I assume Green Flame Blade) because another player's PC in a previous game took it for his character, who also had a strong sword (Hazirawn, from HOTDQ) and did a large amount of damage
- I don't want to anger my GM, as she is my significant other. :)

What other options can forumites suggest?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Well, if you can't use the SCAG cantrips, you're not exactly going to be using that strong new sword of yours with a melee cantrip. You might as well take some more ranged/utility options, or grab Ritual Caster instead.

[Tanarii]

You mean short-range cantrips you can use because you're already planning on being in melee anyway to attack with the sword using normal attacks?

Sorcerer (Cha):
Poison Spray (Con saving throw, no cover applies)
Acid Splash (Dex saving throw, cover applies)
Shocking Grasp (attack roll)

Druid/Cleric (Wis):
Shillelagh (why you would want to I don't know)
Thorn Whip (attack roll, can be used adjacent)
Sacred Flame (Dex save, no cover applies)

Edit: are you able to choose the other SCAG cantrips, or the EE cantrips?

[Alejandro]

I was looking for cantrips I can use as part of or with a melee attack with the sword. Sadly there don't seem to be any others. True Strike appears to be useless.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I was looking for cantrips I can use as part of or with a melee attack with the sword. Sadly there don't seem to be any others. True Strike appears to be useless.
Yup. Blade Ward is pretty bad too. (Though I did once or twice see a Warlock put it to good use against minions by popping Armor of Agathys, casing Blade Ward and running back and forth provoking AoOs from minions). I guess Lightning Lure might be useful occasionally, maybe?

[Tanarii]

I was looking for cantrips I can use as part of or with a melee attack with the sword. Sadly there don't seem to be any others. True Strike appears to be useless.
It not completely useless, although it's so insanely niche it might as well be. It's just not designed to use with physical attacks (or other cantrips) in any way. It's specifically designed to work with slotted (ie 1+) spells, with attack rolls, that don't use concentration. If you use it with an "at-will" attack (physical or cantrip), it's always better at least as good, if not better,to just make 2 attacks instead.


Yup. Blade Ward is pretty bad too. (Though I did once or twice see a Warlock put it to good use against minions by popping Armor of Agathys, casing Blade Ward and running back and forth provoking AoOs from minions). I guess Lightning Lure might be useful occasionally, maybe?Nothing wrong with Blade Ward. It's trading offense for defense, but there are times when a squishy needs to do that. It's definitely not a top-tier cantrip for anyone that can't use it and attack tho. EK or Valor Bard for example.

[Submortimer]

I would ask about Green-Flame Blade. Since you are a bard, you're only going to be getting one attack per round if you use it, and as such the potential for massive damage is mitigated: you're looking at 3d8 extra damage once you hit level 17. Not only that, but the extra effect cannot hit the initial target, further reducing the potential for bonus damage.

That said, maybe work with her to come up with something custom for you to use?

[DivisibleByZero]

I would ask about Green-Flame Blade. Since you are a bard, you're only going to be getting one attack per round if you use it, and as such the potential for massive damage is mitigated: you're looking at 3d8 extra damage once you hit level 17. Not only that, but the extra effect cannot hit the initial target, further reducing the potential for bonus damage.

That said, maybe work with her to come up with something custom for you to use?

Being a bard is irrelevant. No matter what, no one gets any more attacks. The only exception is an EK or Valor Bard with War Magic (or the bard version, whatever it was called). Extra Attack is meaningless when you use your action to cast a spell, which is what GFB and BB require.

[Alejandro]

I don't really want to take Ritual Caster, because... well, there just aren't that many wizard ritual spells. And with no guarantee of finding more in the first place, it seems like a waste of a feat.

[Toofey]

Don't take Magic Initiate for find familiar, take ritual:wizard, you get a bunch of other useful stuff.

*just saw your post above*

MI gets you one spell RAW Ritual caster gets you two. so you get at least 1 more spell. Unless the cantrips really are important to you ritual is better.

As far as cantrips go, it depends on what class you can take them as, if you can get shileighle (I can never spell that) in you primary stat that'll be your best melee option.

[Specter]

So basically you found a sword to get into melee, both cantrips you should take are hated by your girlfriend and your Wizard Magic initiate cantrips will use a bad stat, huh?
Sad answer: none. Use a Sword.
Less sad answer: If you take Magic Initiate for Sorcerer or Warlock, you could take Shocking Grasp, Poison Spray or Sword Burst.

[Naanomi]

As far as cantrips go, it depends on what class you can take them as, if you can get shileighle (I can never spell that) in you primary stat that'll be your best melee option.
Guidance for someone who doesn't otherwise use concentration is also very powerful

[Asmotherion]

- My PC (bard) recently picked up a strong magical sword
- I have a high Con/HP and Armor Class, so I'm not afraid to melee
- Soon, I might take Magic Initiate (Wizard) to get access to the Find Familiar spell
- I thought of, as one of the cantrips I would gain, taking Booming Blade to use with my new sword
- My GM hates Booming Blade (and I assume Green Flame Blade) because another player's PC in a previous game took it for his character, who also had a strong sword (Hazirawn, from HOTDQ) and did a large amount of damage
- I don't want to anger my GM, as she is my significant other. :)

What other options can forumites suggest?

First of all, cuddos to you for playing D&D with your significant other. I do so with my wife, and it's an amazing experiance.

Despite that, I would suggest to ignore DM preferances. It's your character. As a DM, if she really didn't want you to have it, she could simply ban it. Not doing so, means it's still on the table.

Now keep in mind that Booming and Green-Flame are not spell attacks, but melee attacks, meaning you'll be using Str or Dex for them.

[Dudu]

Magic Initiate is a good way to pick a familiar if you intend on picking a good form of utility or damage at will.

That said, Green Flame Blade is an excellent choice. I'm puzzled why your DM thinks it "does tonnes of damage". Really, at most, it adds 3d8 to a single weapon attack. Good damage, yes, but nowhere near what a fighter does with Great Weapon Master. Or an archer with sharpshooter.

[Grod_The_Giant]

That said, Green Flame Blade is an excellent choice. I'm puzzled why your DM thinks it "does tonnes of damage". Really, at most, it adds 3d8 to a single weapon attack. Good damage, yes, but nowhere near what a fighter does with Great Weapon Master. Or an archer with sharpshooter.
I'm guessing the magic sword had something to do with it as well (according to a quick google search, it was probably a +2 sword that did +2d6 necrotic damage and prevents hit point recovery).

[Rysto]

That said, Green Flame Blade is an excellent choice. I'm puzzled why your DM thinks it "does tonnes of damage". Really, at most, it adds 3d8 to a single weapon attack.

Maybe they played it wrong and let it stack with Extra Attack? That would really pile on the damage.

[Alejandro]

Maybe they played it wrong and let it stack with Extra Attack? That would really pile on the damage.

No, it was used correctly. The player in question was using:

Greatsword +2, that also does 2d6 bonus necrotic damage on a hit
With a magic item that gave them 20 STR
And Booming Blade

So they made single attacks that hit hard, if they connected.

[Maxilian]

No, it was used correctly. The player in question was using:

Greatsword +2, that also does 2d6 bonus necrotic damage on a hit
With a magic item that gave them 20 STR
And Booming Blade

So they made single attacks that hit hard, if they connected.

Then the problem here was not the BB cantrip, was that that guy was pimped! (I have had players with really nice Magic Items, but at around lvl 11 or 13), so... in general, don't give players things that just improve their damage, that will just make it more annoying for the DM and won't really add anything new to the player (No new options, no new tactics)

[Desamir]

No, it was used correctly. The player in question was using:

Greatsword +2, that also does 2d6 bonus necrotic damage on a hit
With a magic item that gave them 20 STR
And Booming Blade

So they made single attacks that hit hard, if they connected.

Wouldn't he be doing a lot more damage using Extra Attack instead of Booming Blade?

[Naanomi]

Wouldn't he be doing a lot more damage using Extra Attack instead of Booming Blade?
I'd guess he was using quicken metamagic to swing twice?

[Alejandro]

No. The character was a Rogue, but midway through the campaign, upon capturing the Hazirawn sword, the character multiclassed into Fighter and started fighting with Hazirawn, instead. The player wasn't going for total optimization, they were depicting the PC slowly going crazy and bloodthirsty from the intelligent sword's influence.

[tkuremento]

Being a bard is irrelevant. No matter what, no one gets any more attacks. The only exception is an EK or Valor Bard with War Magic (or the bard version, whatever it was called). Extra Attack is meaningless when you use your action to cast a spell, which is what GFB and BB require.

Why are you going so hard on the semantics of what they are saying? It is obviously implied they mean that Bard gets one attack and that if only one attack, why not just GFB or BB instead. They are not trying to weasel extra attacks, they are not trying to weasel using multiple actions (spell + attack).