best magic initiate options for open hand monk?

[Absinthesize]

First i wanted to say, first time post! awesome site.

but on to my question.

I am planning on making a open hand monk, because i love monks. Will be my first 5e character (played pathfinder previously)

I'm planning on variant human, magic initiate.

My initial idea was hex with eldritch blast and boom blade.

but i was informed that my turn would be better spent with multiple attacks then applying boom blade. and eldritch blast id have a terrible chance to hit due to CHA being a 8.

People have suggested cleric/druid due to WIS focus but im not seeing any standout spells/cantrips. Hoping someone can help me out.

[Bahamut7]

I am currently playing a variant human Monk (though going Sun Soul) myself and picked that exact feat. I went with Druid because the offensive spells were nice (plus I needed Mend for thematic reasons). I chose Thunderwave and Produce Flame. Produce Flame is good, as it gives you an instant Lantern that you can throw at people. Thorn Whip was a close contender. It has the ability to pull people and deal piercing damage though only 1d6 at early levels as oppose to the 1d8 from produce flame.

Hex is amazing for Monk as you will be getting multi-attacks right out the gate. Yes your Eldritch Blast will suck and I wouldn't even bother with it honestly. I would suggest something else, but Hex is very good for you.

Another class to consider is Cleric of Light. I didn't because we have one in my group and I don't want to steal her spotlight.

On a side note in case you overlooked as I did initially. Cantrip damage scales with level not caster level. So at certain intervals Produce Flame, Thorn Whip, etc. will add more dice to their respective damage pool. The trade off is that they don't add ability modifiers to their damage. I just realized I was missing out on a potential +6 each turn by acting mage and shooting fireballs instead of hitting things (which makes sense for my character concept).

[Princess]

Thoughts on Magic Initiate: Cleric

If your only goal is combat effectiveness, it depends on the group as a whole and not just your monk. If the group is short on healing, being able to throw up a Healing Word once per long rest may not seem like much but it could be enough to give someone an extra turn or two in a fight instead of being on the ground useless, and it's a bonus action so you'd still get a regular action in there. Bless for three good attack rollin' types can improve overall effectiveness quite a bit (damage is irrelevant when you miss!). Healing Word in particular is going to be better as a cleric (or maybe Druid) spell because you already should have a decent wisdom bonus as a monk.

A major drawback of Open Hand Monks is that, if they can't get in punching range, they lose a lot of effectiveness - so much that Sacred Flame as a cantrip may actually be the best move to make. It also does radiant damage, which few things resist, and a lot of monsters have terrible dex saves.

Out of combat, Guidance is awesome - give someone a bonus to any skill check as long as you've thought at least a few seconds in advance to give them that extra 1d4.

If you really want to up your combat effectiveness overall I'd say magic initiate probably isn't the best way to go with an Open Hand Monk, because of how limited it is - you get far more from 1 level of War Domain Cleric, or 2 levels of Moon Druid, than you do from that feat. This also depends on how long the campaign lasts, however, because the capstone of Open Hand is definitely worthwhile if your campaign is going just high enough to get it but no further.

[Naanomi]

Hex is great for anyone with lots of attacks like a monk. For cantrips, a ranged attack is nice; though without boosting yOr Charisma you are unlikely to have an accurate one... perhaps something that relies on saves like Frostbite? Utility cantrips like Mage Hand are also hot picks for me

[MrStabby]

Well booming blade is good, but more so for shadow monk who can run in, booming blade someone and teleport out. This is less of an issue if you are planning to take the mobility feat.

Sacred flame, as mentioned, is good. A nice bonus if you are stunning people who will then automatically fail their save. A bit niche, but always nice to have some of this kind of benefit.

Create bonfire is also worth considering. You can set up a flame to keep pushing people into and then stunning them whilst they are there. The way cantrips scale you can do quite a bit of damage. As you will be wanting to play a controller in most fights anyway and your class abilities include pushing people around this can fit in naturally with your playstyle.

[D.U.P.A.]

Hex is not that good, because first it eat your bonus action and half of your attacks come from bonus action. So in first turn you get only half of the attacks. Not to mention when the hexed target is killed, you repeat. Second, it require concentration, but Monk has no Con proficiency, so it could be hard to maintain it since you are a melee combatant.

[Specter]

Just so you know, if you use Booming Blade you only attack once. It's not the Attack action, it's the Cast a Spell action.

I would go the WIS route (Cleric or Druid). Take a ranged cantrip, probably Frostbite, to make up for monk's distance weakness, and Guidance to be better at skills. The first level spell can go many ways. I suggest Bless if Cleric or Entangle/Faerie Fire if Druid.

[Absinthesize]

Hex is not that good, because first it eat your bonus action and half of your attacks come from bonus action. So in first turn you get only half of the attacks. Not to mention when the hexed target is killed, you repeat. Second, it require concentration, but Monk has no Con proficiency, so it could be hard to maintain it since you are a melee combatant.

that is a strong point actually.

i know i want magic initiate though. so perhaps i should stick with cleric or druid? will change the RP of my character a wee bit but not gamebreakingly.

ill have to look up stuff about them. anything you guys suggest? i know people have mentioned sacred fire. ill have to look it up

[Specter]

that is a strong point actually.

i know i want magic initiate though. so perhaps i should stick with cleric or druid? will change the RP of my character a wee bit but not gamebreakingly.

ill have to look up stuff about them. anything you guys suggest? i know people have mentioned sacred fire. ill have to look it up

I did, above.

[Absinthesize]

I did, above.

cant monks use shortbows? isnt that better then a damage cantrip?

also looking at frost bite it seems not that great (seems like con resist would be easy for many creatures)

id rather go produce flame for some utility, or thorn whip and try to pull enemies in range of my tankier teamates or even try to argue that if i can pull a large creature i can use it to grab solid structures like tree branches or ledges and pull myself up.

guidance seems stellar tho.

faerie fire might be wise, im human, dont have dark vision. doubt im going to get repeated darkness fights.

[Specter]

cant monks use shortbows? isnt that better then a damage cantrip?

Unlike the shortbow, the cantrips will scale in damage. Some of them will have better range or an effect, and some of them can even get behind physical barriers and disadvantage factors.

[Absinthesize]

Unlike the shortbow, the cantrips will scale in damage. Some of them will have better range or an effect, and some of them can even get behind physical barriers and disadvantage factors.

so here is my thought so far.

cleric, guidance/sacred flame/bless

druid, guidance/produce flame or vine whip/faerie fire

cleric one sacred flame has longer range, and can ignore cover

druid one has less range, tho more utility with the cantrips themselves, faerie fire should help in situations where im in the dark due to being human.

i could argue due to monk speed, 30 yard range isnt too bad maybe.

[Naanomi]

Unlike the shortbow, the cantrips will scale in damage. Some of them will have better range or an effect, and some of them can even get behind physical barriers and disadvantage factors.
Shortbow will scale with Extra Attack and Dexterity increases, but will likely fall behind in the long run. Of course, a thrown Javelin is a monk weapon, and will scale with Martial Arts right?

[D.U.P.A.]

Depends then what you want Magic initiate for. If for RP, you can choose any 'fluff' cantrips prestidigitation style. For you utility you qualify even for Ritual caster. Honestly, for combat, hardly any cantrip can be really useful, because Monk is already good at fighting. It must be based on Wis, since is the only spellcasting stat you are going to pump up. Sacred flame, Thorn whip, Produce flame, maybe some Druid cantrips from EE can be somehow useful. Nothing special. Shillelagh does not bring anything useful really.

[Desamir]

Shortbow will scale with Extra Attack and Dexterity increases, but will likely fall behind in the long run. Of course, a thrown Javelin is a monk weapon, and will scale with Martial Arts right?

Firebolt is what, 3d10 before level 17? So that's 16.5 damage average, compared to 17 with a shortbow. Pretty darn close. From levels 5-10, the shortbow is ahead by quite a bit.

I'd stick with utility cantrips, TBH. Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion will probably come in handy a lot more than a shortbow alternative.

[gfishfunk]

I'm planning on variant human, magic initiate.

My initial idea was hex with eldritch blast and boom blade.

Hex is not terrible for monks, and actually helps with damage against the big threats. Against a lot of goons (as DUPA mentioned) you end up using your bonus actions over and over, but against a single target (which you can realistically have once per day) it is very good for a monk.


that is a strong point actually.

i know i want magic initiate though. so perhaps i should stick with cleric or druid? will change the RP of my character a wee bit but not gamebreakingly.

ill have to look up stuff about them. anything you guys suggest? i know people have mentioned sacred fire. ill have to look it up

For a monk, I would avoid damage spells and focus on utility. You do some pretty good damage already.

Goodberry for a wilderness campaign, Healing Word for picking up someone that goes down to 0 hp, and so on.

The really good stuff for a Monk specifically is in the cantrips: Guidance, Mending, Light, Prestidigitation.


Depends then what you want Magic initiate for. If for RP, you can choose any 'fluff' cantrips prestidigitation style. For you utility you qualify even for Ritual caster. Honestly, for combat, hardly any cantrip can be really useful, because Monk is already good at fighting. It must be based on Wis, since is the only spellcasting stat you are going to pump up. Sacred flame, Thorn whip, Produce flame, maybe some Druid cantrips from EE can be somehow useful. Nothing special. Shillelagh does not bring anything useful really.

Shillelagh is not terrible, but not great. At level 6, monks' unarmed attacks are basically magic damage...but until then, they don't have something to get past those resistances. But at the core, I agree with the poitn.

Fluff is a great way to use Magic Initiate. It gives the character that little feel of some other class without multiclassing.

[Absinthesize]

Firebolt is what, 3d10 before level 17? So that's 16.5 damage average, compared to 17 with a shortbow. Pretty darn close. From levels 5-10, the shortbow is ahead by quite a bit.

I'd stick with utility cantrips, TBH. Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion will probably come in handy a lot more than a shortbow alternative.

this is actually incredibly useful to know. I wasnt aware shortbow was better DPR then a spell.

that swings me back to cleric.

guidance/light for cantrips. tho produce flame has similar utility to light and less of a massive effect and can also start fires. so the question becomes what 1st level spell to swing my decision that id use once a day.

so im thinking druid still both can get guidance. produce flame while a smaller radius then light...is also utility.

now for a first level spell...

[Naanomi]

this is actually incredibly useful to know. I wasnt aware shortbow was better DPR then a spell.
A javelin gives up a little range, but does even more damage past level 11 (when its damage die goes up from martial arts as a monk weapon) you can even take an unarmed potshot or two at someone standing near by with Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows.

In the end, Eldritch Blast/Fire bolt does what... 4d10 (22 average), Sacred Flame/Bonefire/Produce Flame 4d8 (18 average). A thrown Javelin does 2d10+10 (21 average), can get 1-2 extra melee attacks as well, and any benefits you might have from magic items/weapons.

Sadly a short-bow isn't a monk weapon, an would do 2d6+10 (17) which isn't terrible but is down a few points and doesn't have the extra attack availability

[Fishyninja]

I'd argue Druid for Shillelagh, Goodberry and create fire.

Now yes your martial arts become magic in nature at level 6 but with shillelagh you can use your casting ability for attack and damage rolls so if you are a high Wis character this is a great start! Also the weapon becomes a D8, so magic weapon straight off the bat.

Goodberry to produce 10 berries, each giving you 1hp and count as full susentance, not great but not awful.

Create fire, great for survival scenarios and can be used as a ranged attack also. You'll have a character that can always keep warm, feed yoursdelf and wont have to squabble over magic weapons.

[Specter]

A javelin gives up a little range, but does even more damage past level 11 (when its damage die goes up from martial arts as a monk weapon) you can even take an unarmed potshot or two at someone standing near by with Martial Arts/Flurry of Blows.

In the end, Eldritch Blast/Fire bolt does what... 4d10 (22 average), Sacred Flame/Bonefire/Produce Flame 4d8 (18 average). A thrown Javelin does 2d10+10 (21 average), can get 1-2 extra melee attacks as well, and any benefits you might have from magic items/weapons.

Sadly a short-bow isn't a monk weapon, an would do 2d6+10 (17) which isn't terrible but is down a few points and doesn't have the extra attack availability

Except... you can't draw two weapons in the same turn, so that will limit you to one attack after the first turn.

[Naanomi]

Except... you can't draw two weapons in the same turn, so that will limit you to one attack after the first turn.
Good catch. Reduced to 10.5 average damage after the first round. I still would carry a few javelins more often than I would carry a short-bow myself; or get the longbow out only when there are no melee opponents at all; but it is a factor to consider.

[Garfunion]

My 2 cents

Druid
Cantrips: druidcraft and thorn whip
Thorn whip can pull targets closer to you or away from an injured party member.
Spell: goodberry
Goodberry can heal up to 10hp and also feed 10 creatures, no matter the size of creature. No need to carry extra food and water for your horse or friendly giant.

[Fishyninja]

My 2 cents

Druid
Cantrips: druidcraft and thorn whip
Thorn whip can pull targets closer to you or away from an injured party member.
Another good choice.

[jaappleton]

Magic Initiate feat? I love Cleric for Divine Favor, Sacred Flame and Guidance. Having a Radiant ranged option keying off your already high Wis is solid. Guidance is always good.

If you're going to dip a level or two into a class? Light Cleric. See above, but now you can do it much more often, and Light Cleric gets you "Warding Flare" to shrug off attacks. Its also pretty much the only ability that negates Critical Hits.

[Naanomi]

In the end, I'd go with either:
Bless; Guidance, Sacred Flame <-- my overall preferred choice
OR
Hex; Mage Hand, Frostbite

[jaappleton]

In the end, I'd go with either:
Bless; Guidance, Sacred Flame <-- my overall preferred choice
OR
Hex; Mage Hand, Frostbite

Bless is a really good one. Monks make a ton of attacks, so the key to DPR is making sure you land your hits.

[D.U.P.A.]

I'd argue Druid for Shillelagh, Goodberry and create fire.

Now yes your martial arts become magic in nature at level 6 but with shillelagh you can use your casting ability for attack and damage rolls so if you are a high Wis character this is a great start! Also the weapon becomes a D8, so magic weapon straight off the bat.

Goodberry to produce 10 berries, each giving you 1hp and count as full susentance, not great but not awful.

Create fire, great for survival scenarios and can be used as a ranged attack also. You'll have a character that can always keep warm, feed yoursdelf and wont have to squabble over magic weapons.

Shillelagh is good at the start, if you plan to focus more on Wis than Dex, but eventually as Monk you will have to pump Dex in the end to increase AC and other goodies. It is a monk weapon, which is good, but still unarmed strikes are still keyed off Dex. Could be decent for those more spellcasty types of Monks, but not Open hand. Shillelagh can work fine on Fighters, which cap their Str or Dex to 15 or 14 for armor and then forget about it, but Monks' primary stat will eventually be pumped up.

[Fishyninja]

Shillelagh is good at the start, if you plan to focus more on Wis than Dex, but eventually as Monk you will have to pump Dex in the end to increase AC and other goodies.
Oh I agree a monk does need dex too, I would argue a WOTOH Monk still needs a high Wis for Ki Save etc.

It is good, but again as you ahve said at level 6 it can be a tad weaker, however I think that goodberry and create flame are still good choices. You can't change out the cantrips at higher levels?

[Absinthesize]

I thankyou for the feedback everyone

my options appear to be

1-cleric-guidance+light OR sacred flame, bless

2-druid-guidance+produce flame OR vine whip, faerie fire

3-warlock-mage hand+prestidigitation, hex

My other dilemna is DPR of damage cantrip vs shortbow vs say..javelin.

despite what shortbow gives up (martial arts while using it) i can 1-sheathe or 2-drop the bow when needed. or just take it into 1 hand and fight with my other hand/feet. its starts out notably stronger, especially at level 5, and nothing catches up really until level 17.

thrown weapons would be nice for scaling with martial arts...but fact is i have no easy way to draw multiple thrown weapons a round, resulting in 1 per round. I dont want to tak ethe dual wielding feat.

so ill probably stick with shortbow sadly.

if i was non human (had darkvision) id probably not go with produce flame or light...but since im variant human. picking one of those seems important. that leaves me with faerie fire vs bless.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Yeah, cantrips are terrible for dealing damage. Shillelagh is also bad for you, because you'll already have a good fighting stat (Dex) and it's not worth the added costs to switch to Wis. So really, I'd avoid all damaging cantrips. Bless + Guidance is a nice combo; if you think you'll need the Light cantrip as well, that's probably your best option. (If not, Resistance isn't a terrible thing to spam)

[Asmotherion]

First i wanted to say, first time post! awesome site.

but on to my question.

I am planning on making a open hand monk, because i love monks. Will be my first 5e character (played pathfinder previously)

I'm planning on variant human, magic initiate.

My initial idea was hex with eldritch blast and boom blade.

but i was informed that my turn would be better spent with multiple attacks then applying boom blade. and eldritch blast id have a terrible chance to hit due to CHA being a 8.

People have suggested cleric/druid due to WIS focus but im not seeing any standout spells/cantrips. Hoping someone can help me out.

You're looking at this the wrong way. Hex is your main focus to apply extra damage with each hit. Eldritch Blast and any other cantrip would be more like a bonus to give you a ranged option (though, with this low of a Charisma, it's a waist... If your DM allows a switch for a higher Cha, you may be on to something). Go for Mage Hand/Prestidigitation/Minor Illusion for some utility cantrips that can be quite usefull, or get at least a Cha bonus of +2 or +3 to consider Eldritch Blasting. It's an amazing concept to be able to swich between melee and ranged (I do it with all my characters, and yes, all of them have at least a 2 level warlock dip to be Eldritch Blasters), and make sure my Cha is high enough for the exact same reason. In any way, Magic Initiate is your only way to get Hex without getting a Cha score of 13+, and it's totally worth it if you want to stay away from multi-class. If you do multiclass, an easyer path to a similar spell is the Ranger's Hunter's Mark.