What is the better necro? Witch vs Oracle (pathfinder)

[NecroDancer]

The gravewalker witch gets a desecration aura (although you will probably need to be in combat to use it for the best) and way more spells (blood transcription), can also pick up blasting spells (lighting bolt), and can debuff people with hexes if the witch needs to do other things (Such as fight a creature that hoses undead) The witch also can get the blood money spell to avoid the cost of onyx.

The bone oracle gets more spell slots, some nice revelations (raise dead), better charisma (for command undead), and their curses pay off in the later levels. Also oracles can get the desecration spell and choose between the cure/inflict spells. However oracles know very little spells so there isn't a lot of room for flexibility (so if your undead are useless than you are useless).

Overall which is the better necromancer? Both of them seem about equal, the oracle is more focused but the witch has some great alternative options (and the ability to bypass the onyx).

The reason I mention alternative options is that my DM has discussed a swashbuckling campaign heavily involving the sea so finding corpses/onyx may be a bit tougher.

[Coretron03]

Oracles are generally better of as JuJu oracles then bone oracles because of the 6hd/ level for animate dead with a revelation (and meatier zombies)

On the actual question, Oracles get descreation for easy bloody skeletons that are basically permanent investments while Witches get blood money for free animation so both of them can slide past costs. Oracles get animate dead a level earlier but have limted spells known unlike the witch.


Overall witches are more versatile but Oracles make awesome minionmancers. Depends if you want to do something other then animate dead I guess.

[stack]

Note that you can get some shaman hexes on the Oracle via archetype.

[Jack_Simth]

On the actual question, Oracles get descreation for easy bloody skeletons that are basically permanent investments while Witches get blood money for free animation so both of them can slide past costs. Oracles get animate dead a level earlier but have limted spells known unlike the witch.
There's potentially ways for an Oracle to get the extra spells (including off-list ones):

A Page of Spell Knowledge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/page-of-spell-knowledge/) requires that it be on your class spell list... but that's a DC 20 UMD check, Oracles are Charisma based, and Pathfinder got rid of most of the hassle with cross-class skills. An extra 1k and some skill ranks for UMD (or 500 gp and Craft Wondrous item, plus more skill ranks for Spellcraft) and the Oracle too can bypass costs.

A Spirit Guide Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/spirit-guide/) grabbing the Lore Spirit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/spirits/lore/) for Arcane Enlightenment potentially gets to pick up some Sor/Wiz spells. Actual interaction is... fuzzy, though, as an Oracle doesn't normally prepare spells.

[Coretron03]

There's potentially ways for an Oracle to get the extra spells (including off-list ones):

A Page of Spell Knowledge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/page-of-spell-knowledge/) requires that it be on your class spell list... but that's a DC 20 UMD check, Oracles are Charisma based, and Pathfinder got rid of most of the hassle with cross-class skills. An extra 1k and some skill ranks for UMD (or 500 gp and Craft Wondrous item, plus more skill ranks for Spellcraft) and the Oracle too can bypass costs.

A Spirit Guide Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/spirit-guide/) grabbing the Lore Spirit (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/spirits/lore/) for Arcane Enlightenment potentially gets to pick up some Sor/Wiz spells. Actual interaction is... fuzzy, though, as an Oracle doesn't normally prepare spells.
Fair, Fair but that just makes them even better necromancers andthe point bloody skeletons are hard to destroy making them somewhat permanent so they didn't need to spend money to animate everytime they lose a skeleton and witches too can make bloody skeletons easy by getting descreate as a wand so they can make full pickled blood skeletons as witches can get pretty good umd scores too from the trait that lets them use int for it instead of cha making them equal for a a little investment.

When it comes to higher levels when you want to animate something above 20HD (can't make skeletons above 20HD but you can make zombies above 20HD) JuJu oracles (especially with blood money) have a advantage due to making zombies with full Hp per hit die giving them 3.5 hp a level over witches.

[Coidzor]

Juju Oracle, IIRC. If you mean Minionmancy.

If you mean debuffing/blasting Necromancy, I believe the Witch has a better suite there, but I don't have the spell lists memorized.

[Jack_Simth]

Fair, Fair but that just makes them even better necromancers andthe point bloody skeletons are hard to destroy making them somewhat permanent so they didn't need to spend money to animate everytime they lose a skeleton and witches too can make bloody skeletons easy by getting descreate as a wand so they can make full pickled blood skeletons as witches can get pretty good umd scores too from the trait that lets them use int for it instead of cha making them equal for a a little investment.

When it comes to higher levels when you want to animate something above 20HD (can't make skeletons above 20HD but you can make zombies above 20HD) JuJu oracles (especially with blood money) have a advantage due to making zombies with full Hp per hit die giving them 3.5 hp a level over witches.

Yes - but for less than the cost of one wand of Desecrate (and the "cost" of picking up about the second or third most useful skill in the game) a JuJu Oracle can have the best of both worlds: Bloody Skeletons for free, easily replaceable when they're killed permanently by one of the listed methods, with the nifty JuJu revelation boosts.

[NecroDancer]

Juju Oracle, IIRC. If you mean Minionmancy.

If you mean debuffing/blasting Necromancy, I believe the Witch has a better suite there, but I don't have the spell lists memorized.


I just checked that out. Wow Juju oracles are strong and the fluff is great.

[Coretron03]

Yes - but for less than the cost of one wand of Desecrate (and the "cost" of picking up about the second or third most useful skill in the game) a JuJu Oracle can have the best of both worlds: Bloody Skeletons for free, easily replaceable when they're killed permanently by one of the listed methods, with the nifty JuJu revelation boosts.

Yeah, They are the best minionmancers by a long shot. Pity they still don't have the clause about animating non-evil zombies which let you play a fully neutral minionmancer.