Just for fun: biggest nova round by 3rd level

[Squibsallotl]

Assume:
Single target only, no AoE against a hundred mooks.
Standard array for starting stats.
Standard equipment package or starting wealth.
All attacks auto-hit (don't factor in miss chance).
All spell saves are auto-failed by the target.
All damage rolls deal maximum damage.
One round for buffs or debuffs allowed before the nova.
You can make the target any creature type you like to abuse enemy-specific class features.

Do not assume:
Any critical hits, unless one is guaranteed by a class feature or spell.
No magic items or consumables.
No PC allies to help buff/debuff.
No abusable terrain features (aka no 1000ft cliffs to push them off).

The best I've come up with is a variant human polearm master oath of vengeance paladin, casting Hunter's Mark on the target (which is Undead) during the prep round, and then burning both remaining spell slots for divine smite:
1d10 (polearm main hand attack) + 3 (str) +3d8 (divine smite against undead) +1d6 (hunter's mark)
1d4 (polearm bonus attack) +3 (str) +3d8 (divine smite against undead) +1d6 (hunter's mark)

Total max damage: 80

Eager to hear any better combinations and see how far we can push this envelope.

[Vaz]

So in two rounds, then.

[Squibsallotl]

So in two rounds, then.

The prep round can be used for buffs/debuffs only, not attacks.

But yes.

[retaliation08]

Well a level 3 sorcerer can just cast scorching ray and quicken firebolt against any creature vulnerable to fire for 92 max damage in one round.

[Squibsallotl]

Well a level 3 sorcerer can just cast scorching ray and quicken firebolt against any creature vulnerable to fire for 92 max damage in one round.

True, and if my undead target was vulnerable to Radiant those Smites would be hitting much harder too. In that case the paladin deals 128 damage to his target.

Good call though.

[LudicSavant]

Assume:
Single target only, no AoE against a hundred mooks.
Standard array for starting stats.
Standard equipment package or starting wealth.
All attacks auto-hit (don't factor in miss chance).
All spell saves are auto-failed by the target.
All damage rolls deal maximum damage.
One round for buffs or debuffs allowed before the nova.
You can make the target any creature type you like to abuse enemy-specific class features.
Okay then.


Total max damage: 80

You can do 935 damage at level 1, with a cantrip, without even needing to assume maximum damage, just by splashing a fire elemental with Shape Water. You can fit 935 gallons of water into that 5 foot cube, after all. Level 3? I guess you could quicken it for 1870 damage. Then throw on something using your Concentration. Or find a class feature that gives a creature Vulnerability, and throw that on.

[Farecry]

Edit: lvl 3 not 5. whoops

[Davemeddlehed]

Okay then.



You can do 935 damage at level 1, with a cantrip, without even needing to assume maximum damage, just by splashing a fire elemental with Shape Water. You can fit 935 gallons of water into that 5 foot cube, after all. Level 3? I guess you could quicken it for 1870 damage. Then throw on something using your Concentration. Or find a class feature that gives a creature Vulnerability, and throw that on.

You cannot fit 935 gallons in a 5ft cube. 7.48 gallons fit in one square foot, meaning you can fit 37.4 gallons of water in a five foot cube.

Also, not to nitpick, but I highly doubt a fire elemental is going to be standing within 5 ft of enough water to fit in a 5ft cube.

[PanosIs]

A better ruleset would be maximum single target damage to an abstract creature, no splashing fire elementals or creatures vunerable to damage types.

Paladin with Polearm Master can get to 1d10 (Polearm Attack) + 4d8 (Divine smite) + 1d4 (Bonus attack) + 2d6 (Thunderous Smite) + 6 (2xSTR Mod)

10+24+4+12+6=56 damage

Monk might have a chance here as well, getting to do 3 attacks with Flurry of Blows is pretty important, but you probably need to multiclass to get the full benefit, as you need some way to smite your target.

[hymer]

You cannot fit 935 gallons in a 5ft cube. 7.48 gallons fit in one square foot, meaning you can fit 37.4 gallons of water in a five foot cube.

A five foot cube has 5 (width) x5 (depth) x5 (height) cubic feet in it: 7.48 multiplied by 125 is 935.

[Mhl7]

You cannot fit 935 gallons in a 5ft cube. 7.48 gallons fit in one square foot, meaning you can fit 37.4 gallons of water in a five foot cube.

It is 5 CUBE, which means 5^3 = 125. So it is 7.48 x 125 = 935

[joaber]

Tabaxi moon druid 3
Prepared longstride and cas spike growth
Turn 1 Bonus acion change in direwolf, grab and move the creature 120 ft in spike growth causing max of 92 damage. Half damage if creature is medium or bigger

A pali 2 war cleric 1 human with great weapon master and great sword could do
4d6 +4d8 +26 = 82

[Cespenar]

Tabaxi moon druid 3
Prepared longstride and cas spike growth
Turn 1 Bonus acion change in direwolf, grab and move the creature 120 ft in spike growth causing max of 92 damage. Half damage if creature is medium or bigger

A pali 2 war cleric 1 human with great weapon master and great sword could do
4d6 +4d8 +26 = 82

Wouldn't a Variant Human Moon Druid 3 with Mobile be able to get his speed up to 140 ft. with your method, resulting in 112 dmg?

[joaber]

Wouldn't a Variant Human Moon Druid 3 with Mobile be able to get his speed up to 140 ft. with your method, resulting in 112 dmg?

No, cus tabaxi can double the speed to move 120ft. Mobile human v would move only 70

[Pichu]

Vampire (from DMG) Vuman (GWM) Cleric 3 w/ 18 Str (via Vampire)
Enemy: Skeleton (for vulnerable Bludgeoning)
Prep: Hold Person
Round:
A: Maul (GWM-ed)
BA: War Priest: Maul (GWM-ed)
Total damage: 2x(2x(4d6))+28=124 damage

Vampire (DMG) Vuman (PAM) Treachery Paladin 3 (TWF) w/ 18 Str (via Vampire)
Enemy: Vampire
Prep: Poison Weapon; vampire lays down
Round:
A: Polearm (1d10) +4 (Str) + 2x(3d8) (Divine Smite) + 23 (Poison via Treachery)
BA: Pommel (1d4) +4 (Str) + 2x(3d8) (Divine Smite)
Total: 141 damage

Vampire (DMG) Vuman (GWM) War Cleric 1/Paladin 2 (GWF) w/ 18 Str (via Vampire)
Enemy: Vampire (vul to Rad)
Prep: Divine Favor
Round:
A: Maul (2d6) + 4 (Str) + 3d8 (Smite) + 1d4 (DF) + 10 (GWM)
BA: Maul (2d6) + 4 (Str) + 3d8 (Smite) + 1d4 (DF) + 10 (GWM)
Total: 4d4+4d6+12d8+8+20=164 damage

[Byke]

Be a Paladin of Treachery and add another 23 damage for free.

[Cespenar]

No, cus tabaxi can double the speed to move 120ft. Mobile human v would move only 70

Right, sorry.

[Gignere]

Tabaxi moon druid 3
Prepared longstride and cas spike growth
Turn 1 Bonus acion change in direwolf, grab and move the creature 120 ft in spike growth causing max of 92 damage. Half damage if creature is medium or bigger

A pali 2 war cleric 1 human with great weapon master and great sword could do
4d6 +4d8 +26 = 82

The Druid trick won't work you are not immune so you will die before finishing the move.

[RickAllison]

The Druid trick won't work you are not immune so you will die before finishing the move.

You are standing on the outside edge of it and are dragging them right along the barrier. In diagram terms,

-----
-----
x----
o

The druid is the o and the target is the x, while the - indicates Spike Growth. The druid moves along just outside the spell, while the creature is stuck inside and taking damage.

[LudicSavant]

A better ruleset would be maximum single target damage to an abstract creature, no splashing fire elementals or creatures vunerable to damage types.

If you're looking for practical optimization information, a better ruleset still would be to measure average DPR against a target with a standardized AC and save, which leads to far more practical results than assuming maximized rolls, perfect accuracy, zero crits, and vulnerable creatures. Here's how you can calculate that:

DPR for AC-targeting attacks = ((Hit%-Crit%)*(DPH)+(Crit%*DPC))*#Attacks
DPR for save negates attacks = (1-Save%)*DPH*#Attacks
DPR for save for half damage attacks = ( Save%*DPH/2+(1-Save%)*DPH )*#Attacks

Save% = chance to make saving throw = (21-Save DC+Save Bonus)/20, Min 0.05 Max 0.95
Hit% = chance to hit with attack = (21-AC+AB)/20, Min 0.05 Max 0.95. With advantage, it's Hit% + ((1-Hit%)*Hit%). With disadvantage, it's Hit%^2.
Crit% = chance to critical hit. Usually it's 0.05, and for Champions it's 0.1. With advantage, it's Crit% + ((1-Crit%)*Crit%). With disadvantage, it's Crit%^2.
DPH = damage per hit = ((die size)/2 + 0.5)*(number of dice)+Modifier. For GWF style, add ((Die Size)/2-1)/((Die Size)/2) * (number of dice). For Elemental Adept, add (1/die size) * (number of dice).
DPC = damage per crit = DPH with the number of dice doubled (usually).
#attacks = number of attacks


You cannot fit 935 gallons in a 5ft cube. 7.48 gallons fit in one square foot, meaning you can fit 37.4 gallons of water in a five foot cube. Your math is completely wrong. My post, as well as those of Mhl7 and hymer, provide the correct calculations.


It is 5 CUBE, which means 5^3 = 125. So it is 7.48 x 125 = 935

A five foot cube has 5 (width) x5 (depth) x5 (height) cubic feet in it: 7.48 multiplied by 125 is 935.

This.

[PanosIs]

So against 15 AC (Normal AC for 3rd level), a Paladin of Treachery with Polearm Master has a +5 to hit, hitting on both attacks 55% of the time, on the first attack we deal
0.5*(3d10+2d8+6)+0.05*(6d10+4d8+6)
and with the second attack
0.45*(0.5*(1d4+2d10+2d8+6)+0.05*(2d4+4d10+4d8+6))+ 0.55*(0.5*(1d4+2d8+6)+0.05*(2d4+4d8+6))
for a grand total of: ~32 damage with our two attacks, while adding another spell smite adds a few more points to that total

On the flip note, I tried Mystic today, their smite with two weapon fighting can get you flat +6d10 on your two attacks and you get a +1 weapon out of the deal, and you can impose a dex save for halve instead of actually attacking, which can probably beat this but I'm not into the math right now.

[Squibsallotl]

A pali 2 war cleric 1 human with great weapon master and great sword could do
4d6 +4d8 +26 = 82

Nice one! Hadn't considered the war cleric dip.



Vampire (DMG) Vuman (PAM) Treachery Paladin 3 w/ 18 Str (via Vampire)
Enemy: Vampire
Prep: Poison Weapon & cast Thunderous Smite; vampire lays down
Round:
A: Polearm (1d10) +4 (Str) + 2x(3d8) (Divine Smite) +2d6 (Thunderous Smite) + 23 (Poison via Treachery)
BA: Pommel (1d4) +4 (Str) + 2x(3d8) (Divine Smite)
Total: 153 damage

How are you using 2x divine smite for each attack? A 3rd level paladin only has 3 spell slots, and RAW I thought you could only expend one spell slot per attack anyway.

Also both Poison Weapon and Thunderous Smite are bonus actions, you can't take two bonus actions in a turn.

[retaliation08]

Nice one! Hadn't considered the war cleric dip.



How are you using 2x divine smite for each attack? A 3rd level paladin only has 3 spell slots, and RAW I thought you could only expend one spell slot per attack anyway.

Also both Poison Weapon and Thunderous Smite are bonus actions, you can't take two bonus actions in a turn.

The smites damages is doubled due to a vulnerability to radiant damage of the target creature I assume.

[Squibsallotl]

The smites damages is doubled due to a vulnerability to radiant damage of the target creature I assume.

Ah right, makes sense. There's still the action economy issue in the prep round, though if you're going vampire you might as well go the spellcaster variant and burn 5th level slots for each attack. Kind of goes against the spirit of the challenge though as you're basically a monster under DM control by that point.

[Malifice]

Barbarian 2, Rogue 1. Expertise in athletics.

Push the enemy over a 200' cliff and into magma.

[Squibsallotl]

Barbarian 2, Rogue 1. Expertise in athletics.

Push the enemy over a 200' cliff and into magma.

Violates the conditions of the challenge.



Do not assume:
No abusable terrain features (aka no 1000ft cliffs to push them off).

[Malifice]

Probably some kind of Paladin dumping 7 encounters worth of resources into a round.

[furby076]

If you're looking for practical optimization information, a better ruleset still would be to measure average DPR against a target with a standardized AC and save, which leads to far more practical results than assuming maximized rolls, perfect accuracy, zero crits, and vulnerable creatures. Here's how you can calculate that:

DPR for AC-targeting attacks = ((Hit%-Crit%)*(DPH)+(Crit%*DPC))*#Attacks
DPR for save negates attacks = (1-Save%)*DPH*#Attacks
DPR for save for half damage attacks = ( Save%*DPH/2+(1-Save%)*DPH )*#Attacks

Save% = chance to make saving throw = (21-Save DC+Save Bonus)/20, Min 0.5 Max 0.95
Hit% = chance to hit with attack = (21-AC+AB)/20, Min 0.5 Max 0.95. With advantage, it's Hit% + ((1-Hit%)*Hit%). With disadvantage, it's Hit%^2.
Crit% = chance to critical hit. Usually it's 0.05, and for Champions it's 0.1. With advantage, it's Crit% + ((1-Crit%)*Crit%). With disadvantage, it's Crit%^2.
DPH = damage per hit = ((die size)/2 + 0.5)*(number of dice)+Modifier. For GWF style, add ((Die Size)/2-1)/((Die Size)/2) * (number of dice). For Elemental Adept, add (1/die size) * (number of dice).
DPC = damage per crit = DPH with the number of dice doubled (usually).
#attacks = number of attacks

Your math is completely wrong. My post, as well as those of Mhl7 and hymer, provide the correct calculations.




This.

Is this available in excel somewhere? It would be great where a person can enter a few variables and get the DPR

[joaber]

agaist random enemy:

mystic 1/warlock hexblade 1/war cleric 1
human v - great weapon master
pre hex, cast armor of aghatys and use curse before attack
psy focus in psionic weapon for +1
2d6+2d10+1d6+16
2d6+2d10+1d6+16

grant enemy AoO to do +5 with armor of aghatys.

total = 113

[LudicSavant]

Is this available in excel somewhere? It would be great where a person can enter a few variables and get the DPR

No, but I could make one. Would people like me to make one?

[joaber]

No, but I could make one. Would people like me to make one?

absolutly YES!

[Pichu]

Yes! I would very much appreciate that.

[Matrix_Walker]

No, but I could make one. Would people like me to make one?

As a google sheet that we could copy... delightful!

[Squibsallotl]

No, but I could make one. Would people like me to make one?

I'd also be keen for a spreadsheet like that. Maths isn't my strong suit, your formula is above my head :P

[Drackolus]

No, but I could make one. Would people like me to make one?

Yes, because I'm usually too lazy to do the math myself and certainly too lazy to make a spreadsheet :smallbiggrin:

[LudicSavant]

Yes, because I'm usually too lazy to do the math myself and certainly too lazy to make a spreadsheet :smallbiggrin:


I'd also be keen for a spreadsheet like that. Maths isn't my strong suit, your formula is above my head :P


As a google sheet that we could copy... delightful!


Yes! I would very much appreciate that.


absolutly YES!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qv3skx5dwgq1piGZq6gzfZb6N6XRj99CEto2MAXrWEk/edit?usp=sharing

Includes two sheets: One for attack rolls, one for saving throws.

This sheet accounts for just about everything when calculating DPR. Hit chance, crit chance, advantage, disadvantage, riders, elemental adept, great weapon fighting, rounding, DoTs, sneak attack, etc etc.

Please let me know if there is anything even slightly inaccurate.