Super Strength...

[CyberWyld]

Okay I'm not sure if this has been brought up or not. But I have a major complaint that annoys the hell outta me. I've been reading comic books since I was a little boy; and I always get annoyed when I see a super hero punch someone...a normal human, and the guy lives!? Let's take Spiderman for example. What's his strength allow him to do? Like throw a ton the length of a football field? If he's pissed and hits you in the face, what happens? Your head explodes, that's what. More annoying them Spidey is Superman. How many times does this guy have to punch Lex Luthor before he just vaporizes him out of sheer force? I mean he throws planets around, but a punch to the face just causes your lip to bleed?

Lastly, if I see ANYMORE done with Batman Fighting Superman and standing toe to toe with the guy, I'm gonna throw up. Batman, modern day ninja. Mega badass, and I'm a huge fan. I'm a much bigger fan of Batman then Superman. That being said, BATMAN IS A MAN!!! Yet I've seen him go toe to toe with the likes of Superman, SPAWN, I mean don't get me started. Guys got all kinds of money and time on his hands. He's in good shape and could take out a navy seal team by himself. But he can't fight characters with super strength. Anyways...thoughts?



Hasta

[Dhavaer]

Best example: Superman punches Lex straight through a brick wall, about a foot thick. Lex simply says: "You can hit!"

[Closet_Skeleton]

Maybe his 'tactile telekinesis' protects people he punches as well.

[Selrahc]

Well Spidey at least, comments fairly regularly on how much he holds back when fighting a normal human. Superman too, holds back from using anything like his full strength unless his foe can take it.

[Green Bean]

I agree with Selrahc. Silver Age silliness aside, it's not like just because you're super-strong you can't pull a punch. Superman has a code against killing, and I'm pretty sure he's figured out that a punch that gives Darkseid a headache will turn an ordinary person into a cloud of red mist.

[new1965]

The normal way to deal with regular humans is to hold back and use the classic "finger flick of doom"

Of course if you want to see what happens when someone DOESN'T hold back, take a look at Superboy-Prime's rampage in Infinite Crisis. The big turning point is when he goofs and hit someone full strength

[psycojester]

Personally i love when 12 year old Molly Hayes from the Runaways slugs the Punisher right in the guts, best illustration of the OP's point ever. Punisher vomits all over his boots and then passes out.

[Rare Pink Leech]

The best explanation is definitely that the strong character is pulling punches. Case in point about Superman: even when going toe-to-toe with another guy with super strength, even though they're going all out and walloping each other like it's goingo out of style, Supes is still holding back, albeit mostly subconsciously. He does this because he is (rightly) terrified at what would happen if he truly used all of his strength.

[Grod_The_Giant]

yeah, what the other posters are saying is true. When the modern Supergirl first appeared, she appeared to be stronger then Superman...because she wasn't used to pulling her punches and holding back.

[PsyBlade]

When Darkseid appeared on Earth in the recent Justice League series, Superman flat out said that he holds back against us normals. Against Darkseid, he wasn't holding back, mostly.

[F.H. Zebedee]

What about superstrong villains? Don't tell me that Rhino holds back when he hits people. If one of them connects, it's poor writing to let a nonmeta survive.

[Grod_The_Giant]

What about superstrong villains? Don't tell me that Rhino holds back when he hits people. If one of them connects, it's poor writing to let a nonmeta survive.

well, for all we know, Rhino has an aversion to killing people (he does in The Shocker: Legit) (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2594910/1/). Just 'cause you're a villain doesn't mean you're a callous murderer.

[TruenuffTrey]

When Darkseid appeared on Earth in the recent Justice League series, Superman flat out said that he holds back against us normals. Against Darkseid, he wasn't holding back, mostly.

I must say, that's the most badass I've seen Superman in a long time, if not ever.

[....]

Remember when Superman put his all into a punch and it shattered every window in Metropolis and left a four foot deep crater in the street?

He holds back.

[Blue Paladin]

Remember when Superman put his all into a punch and it shattered every window in Metropolis and left a four foot deep crater in the street?

He holds back.And this is TAS version of Superman, which is a fairly de-powered version anyway. I mean, the current comics version can wipe out all life from the planet (and actually threatens to do so in For Tomorrow), and he doesn't hold a candle to the Silver Age version, or, if you want to get really ridiculous, the Superfriends version.

[kpenguin]

And this is TAS version of Superman, which is a fairly de-powered version anyway. I mean, the current comics version can wipe out all life from the planet (and actually threatens to do so in For Tomorrow), and he doesn't hold a candle to the Silver Age version, or, if you want to get really ridiculous, the Superfriends version.

You mean the version that can travel through time by traveling around the world backwards? Cheesy.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You mean the version that can travel through time by traveling around the world backwards? Cheesy.

It was a god-darned kid's show! With an enforced G rating and an audience that was supposed to be little kids that don't know any better!

[GoC]

If Warhulk punched superman with all his strength would the man of steel even blink?

[PsyBlade]

Depends on how angry Hulk is. Normally, I'd say no, but after some pushing...

[kpenguin]

Well, the Hulk's strength grows with his anger, so he has near infinite potential strength. If he was angry enough, he could just punch a hole in the universe.

[Raiser Blade]

true i hated it when the marvel writers had sevral characters beating hulk into submission

that is actually quite freekin impossible because his strength grows exponentially a fight between him and superman could last for a very long time with supes losing unless he gets creative

[CyberWyld]

Okay so explain Batman then. You're telling me Superman holds back against someone like Bats who is TRYING with everything he's got take him out? Or what about Batman VS Spawn? Telling me spawn couldn't kick his spine out his ass? Batman's just a dude...



Hasta

[kpenguin]

Superman's pulling his punches is mostly subconscious. It's like how Iceman is an Omega level mutant, but you would never know it because of his mental blocks.

[Beleriphon]

Okay so explain Batman then. You're telling me Superman holds back against someone like Bats who is TRYING with everything he's got take him out?

Yep. In fact this is sort of the point of their fight in DKR. Batman is seriously worried once he realizes that Superman isn't as weak as he was hoping, and his internal monologue goes on about how he's trying to make Superman angry enough to let loose. That way when he fakes his death it looks like Superman ended up killing him, and removing all doubt that he could be coming back.

[Green Bean]

true i hated it when the marvel writers had sevral characters beating hulk into submission

that is actually quite freekin impossible because his strength grows exponentially a fight between him and superman could last for a very long time with supes losing unless he gets creative

Why? He doesn't start out infinitely angry. Yes, he has unlimited strength potential, but if his opponent knocks him out before he gets angry enough to be stronger than him/her, then that's little help. And Superman starts out stronger than the Hulk (If I recall correctly)

[Finn Solomon]

If Warhulk punched superman with all his strength would the man of steel even blink?

He'd get knocked out.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Okay so explain Batman then. You're telling me Superman holds back against someone like Bats who is TRYING with everything he's got take him out? Or what about Batman VS Spawn? Telling me spawn couldn't kick his spine out his ass? Batman's just a dude...



Hasta

two words- Plot. Armor.

[Scientivore]

Why? He doesn't start out infinitely angry. Yes, he has unlimited strength potential, but if his opponent knocks him out before he gets angry enough to be stronger than him/her, then that's little help. And Superman starts out stronger than the Hulk (If I recall correctly)

I think that he was referring back to the discussion of how Superman holds back. First, Superman would have to overcome his subconscious fear of turning relatively mellow Hulk into a green mist. Failing that, he'd have to overcome his subconscious fear of turning mildly annoyed Hulk into a green mist, then his fear of turning frankly irritated Hulk into a green mist, then undeniably cranky Hulk, then downright indignant Hulk, and so on. With almost anyone else, Superman can just keep on throwing fake, play-boxing punches and eventually he'll wear them down without too much risk of accidentally popping them like an old, brittle waterballoon. That wouldn't work with the Hulk and by the time he got mad/tough enough for Superman to be comfortable with letting loose, it wouldn't be that easy to K.O him anymore.

[maskimus]

Superman did face the Hulk in a crossover Tresury Edition as I recall.
Supes hit the Hulk who flew up and crashed down. Supes was worried that he hit him too hard and went to check on him. When he bent over the body, the Hulk clobbered him saying "Stupid Cape man!" and Supes went flying and crashing. When they went toe to toe again, Supes just stood his ground and let the Hulk pound him with no ill effects, because this time he was prepared and set.("nothing on earth can move me.")
This was back in the late '70's BTW.(god I'm old):smallwink:

[kpenguin]

Trust me, all DC/Marvel crossovers have a habit of satisfying the fanbois rather than verisimilitude.

[Green Bean]

I think that he was referring back to the discussion of how Superman holds back. First, Superman would have to overcome his subconscious fear of turning relatively mellow Hulk into a green mist. Failing that, he'd have to overcome his subconscious fear of turning mildly annoyed Hulk into a green mist, then his fear of turning frankly irritated Hulk into a green mist, then undeniably cranky Hulk, then downright indignant Hulk, and so on. With almost anyone else, Superman can just keep on throwing fake, play-boxing punches and eventually he'll wear them down without too much risk of accidentally popping them like an old, brittle waterballoon. That wouldn't work with the Hulk and by the time he got mad/tough enough for Superman to be comfortable with letting loose, it wouldn't be that easy to K.O him anymore.

Of course, Superman always has his trump card; flying the Hulk into outer space and tossing him into the sun. :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, I think that what would actually happen lies somewhere in the middle. It'd end up being a race between the Hulk powering up and Superman realizing he shouldn't pull his punches.

Of course, if Superman started out knowing exactly how Hulk got his power, then I figure he'd end up breaking out his 'Sunday Best'. On the other hand, if a full powered Superman punch left a giant crater and shattered every window in Metropolis, he might not want to use it even against Hulk; if he's just mildly peeved instead of a berserk juggernaut of unstoppable fury, the impact could very well kill the green giant. Naturally, that scenario gives Superman the advantage by its very nature, so I wouldn't consider it an accurate test of either's strength. Alas, we shall probably never see a truly accurate fight between the two; both characters have enough fans that the honest loss of one or the other would spark an internetload's worth of outrage.

[maskimus]

Trust me, all DC/Marvel crossovers have a habit of satisfying the fanbois rather than verisimilitude.

Which is what I was back then.:smallredface:

[Hushdawg]

Comic book examples of super-blows is in the Death of Superman where the fight between Supes and Doomsday intensified and the shock waves from their punches shattered all the windows in the skyscrapers. So it wasn't just in the cartoons.

That's part of being a superhero; holding back so that you don't turn people into paste when you clobber `em.

Doomsday is the perfect example of a villain who has super strength and doesn't care about how many people he kills in the process.

Guido (from X-factor) had a problem with that too as I recall.

[Hushdawg]

Well, the Hulk's strength grows with his anger, so he has near infinite potential strength. If he was angry enough, he could just punch a hole in the universe.

Not really, Hulk has a limit, once he reaches it then he collapses and reverts to Banner in a totall unconscious state.

It's happened a couple of times in the comics and is explained as a chemical overload to the brain once.

Dunno if that is still a factor given all the transformations that Hulk has undergone.

This most recent "War Hulk" transformation is downright disturbing though if you ask me.

[Hushdawg]

Trust me, all DC/Marvel crossovers have a habit of satisfying the fanbois rather than verisimilitude.

uuuh... isn't the very nature of a crossover between comic companies to simply appeal to fanboys and fangirls and "to hell" with plot and story?

After all, nothing that happens in those crossovers has any bearing on a canon story.

Though I have to admit that I rather enjoyed the Amalgam comics from the two 1990s crossovers.

[Grod_The_Giant]

well, I'll say this much on the subject of Superman vs Hulk- If it was the Ultimate Hulk, Banner would be dead. In the first arc of the Ultimates, after Hulk was beaten and turned back into Banner, he was suffering from every injury the Hulk had suffered.

[GoC]

Superman would not be harmed by a punch even from an infinitely enraged Warhulk.
Does anyone dare disagree?:smallamused: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2833281&postcount=95)

[Yuki Akuma]

Superman would not be harmed by a punch even from an infinitely enraged Warhulk.
Does anyone dare disagree?:smallamused: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2833281&postcount=95)

Well... maybe if it's "been hanging out in the core of a yellow star for the past fifty years" Superman...

[GoC]

Well... maybe if it's "been hanging out in the core of a yellow star for the past fifty years" Superman...
Click on the smiley.

[Yuki Akuma]

Click on the smiley.

Yes, I did. It links to lots of math trying to prove that a fictional character can't punch harder just because he's stronger.

So? We're talking about comics, here, not real life. Comics where the Hulk can kick a planet a few miles out of orbit, or jump into orbit.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Superman would not be harmed by a punch even from an infinitely enraged Warhulk.
Does anyone dare disagree?:smallamused: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2833281&postcount=95)

yes. The Hulk held up a MOUNTAIN range once. He's going to hurt the MODERN Superman.

[kpenguin]

Superman would not be harmed by a punch even from an infinitely enraged Warhulk.
Does anyone dare disagree?:smallamused: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2833281&postcount=95)

Hey! Get your real-life physics out of my fictional comic-book world!

[Nevrmore]

When discussing the Hulk, people fail to realize that it's impossible to just grow angirer and angrier. At some point the chemicals in your brain that causes that emotion will be all used up and it will be literally impossible to get any madder than that.

[Yuki Akuma]

When discussing the Hulk, people fail to realize that it's impossible to just grow angirer and angrier. At some point the chemicals in your brain that causes that emotion will be all used up and it will be literally impossible to get any madder than that.

That doesn't apply to the Hulk, though. His rage isn't exactly natural to begin with.

[Nevrmore]

That doesn't apply to the Hulk, though. His rage isn't exactly natural to begin with.
It's never been stated outright that such a thing doesn't apply to the Hulk.

[Beleriphon]

The timeless comic book question: Who is stronger, Superman or the Hulk?

A question for the ages really.

[Yuki Akuma]

The timeless comic book question: Who is stronger, Superman or the Hulk?

A question for the ages really.

Hulk in a straight fight. Superman with preperation. :smallwink:

[Nevrmore]

The timeless comic book question: Who is stronger, Superman or the Hulk?

A question for the ages really.
It depends on if we're talking Pre- or Post-Crisis.

Pre-Crisis, Superman wins easily, the dude moves planets.

Incidentally, if you were on the planet that Superman was moving, would it look like he was just some dude doing a handstand?

[kpenguin]

Hulk in a straight fight. Superman with preperation. :smallwink:

Wait... Superman wins with preparation. Since when did Superman steal Batman's trademark?

[Yuki Akuma]

Wait... Superman wins with preparation. Since when did Superman steal Batman's trademark?

Preparation, in this case, means "sitting in the sun for a year or so".

Also: It was a joke. :smallwink: I was parodying the Superman vs. Batman argument.

[lord_khaine]

honestly he doesnt need preperation time.
no matter if either superman or the hulk is a little stronger, superman still wins due to all his other powers, most important of those his superspeed and flight ability, wich allow him to both avoid hulks punches and throw him off into the ocean to cool off.

[Yuki Akuma]

honestly he doesnt need preperation time.
no matter if either superman or the hulk is a little stronger, superman still wins due to all his other powers, most important of those his superspeed and flight ability, wich allow him to both avoid hulks punches and throw him off into the ocean to cool off.

He said "who's stronger?", not "who would win in a fight?".

[Hushdawg]

It's never been stated outright that such a thing doesn't apply to the Hulk.

Actually it HAS been stated outright that things like that DO affect the Hulk.

It's been in the comics before where people kept hammering on him and insulting him and making him madder and madder and madder until...

*bonk*

the chemical overload in his brain shut down Hulk and he reverted to a very collapsed Banner.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Actually it HAS been stated outright that things like that DO affect the Hulk.

It's been in the comics before where people kept hammering on him and insulting him and making him madder and madder and madder until...

*bonk*

the chemical overload in his brain shut down Hulk and he reverted to a very collapsed Banner.

hmm...somehow, that seems like a kind of suicidal strategy, don't you think?

I'd say Hulk wins because he's got cooler video games (Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction, any one?). Lol, just kidding. Hulk vs Supes is indeed a good question (if you use the standard comic-book rule of 'leave your physics at the door'). I'd say that, while Hulk would have an advantage in an unthinking fight to the death, Superman could win by using his head, as many opponents do.

[fangthane]

First off, it's always offended me that normal people don't get dead more often in superhero conflagrations - though I can reconcile it as the desire to retain a G rating, rather than realistically depicting the death and devastation that such conflicts would cause. That said, Batman, Captain America and others who deal with super-powered adversaries but have limited or no intrinsic power of their own have always been a sore point. Because you're absolutely right; they should have their teeth fed to them. Of course, probably the most egregious examples are folk like Black Adam - I mean honestly, he's meant to be the epitome of all that's worst in mankind, and he doesn't engage in random, wanton slaughter? What up wit dat?

Second: Hulk versus Superman - Superman, hands down. Perhaps I say that because Superman can dictate the arena (just inside the surface of Sol), and perhaps I say that because the Superman I remember is the absurdly-overpowered (but ultimate boy scout) version. Or perhaps it's because he's capable of using other abilities, like heat vision (or jabbing a finger into his skull and stirring), to lobotomise the Hulk and forestall any strong emotion whatsoever. In any case, I'm right because I said so. :smallbiggrin:

Nevrmore - that's the other thing that bugs me about comics... Inertia and leverage. (hark, do you hear them dying?) Superman should have better luck moving planets using his heat vision to drive thermal eruptions than attempting to use his whopping couple hundred pounds' worth of momentum. And then there's the rotation; you thought spin was rough in pool, watch out. But yes, if he were 'grasping' Earth with his hands (and we ignore physics), he'd look like some muscle dude in tights doing a handstand.

[UglyPanda]

In a magazine, I've seen Superman vs. Hulk question asked to Stan Lee and a writer for DC. Stan Lee said that the way Hulk was originally designed meant that his strength was truly limitless and that Hulk would eventually win. The DC writer said Superman could simply grab the Hulk and fly him into the sun. I'm personally wondering why hasn't Superman tried that before. It would've gotten rid of Doomsday a lot sooner. The Sentry has done it a couple of times before and thinks about doing it to several villains.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm personally wondering why hasn't Superman tried that before. It would've gotten rid of Doomsday a lot sooner. The Sentry has done it a couple of times before and thinks about doing it to several villains.

That's because Superman is basically a pacafist. He doesn't want to potentially kill the Hulk, which throwing him in the sun would do. He stayed to fight Doomsday to the death (partially 'cause throwing him in the sun would be anti-climatic and defeat the purpose), but he wouldn't just blow his brains out his ear with heat vision.

What he COULD do, though, is drag the Hulk to near-solar orbit and fight him there. He did it to Darkseid once, and the Hulk can't fly either. Hulkie is helpless.

The Sentry, on the other hand, is, in the words of George Carlin, ****IN' NUTS!

[Beleriphon]

Of course, probably the most egregious examples are folk like Black Adam - I mean honestly, he's meant to be the epitome of all that's worst in mankind, and he doesn't engage in random, wanton slaughter? What up wit dat?

You mean like his version of justice, or WWIII for DC where Black Adam kills nearly the entire population of several countries, then proceeds to trounce every superbeing in China before a rather substantial group of heroes come to stop him?

In all honestly Black Adam really does represent the worst of humanity, but that doesn't mean goes on wild killing sprees at random moments. He's still a lucid and functional person, he's just completely amoral.

[GoC]

yes. The Hulk held up a MOUNTAIN range once. He's going to hurt the MODERN Superman.

Superman can resist mountain ranges falling on him.


Hey! Get your real-life physics out of my fictional comic-book world!

If Reed Richards has at any point in time had either F=man or E=mc^2 (relies on the version of F=ma at relativistic speeds) than physics is applicable.
In fact almost 90% of equations in physics rely on conservation of momentum. I'm fairly certain that he's written at least one RL physics equation at some point in time.
In a similar vein: What would happen if a mutant was born with the power to make physics work in a 100 mile radius?:smallamused:

Re Superman vs. Hulk: Wouldn't Superman just dodge?

[Hushdawg]

In a similar vein: What would happen if a mutant was born with the power to make physics work in a 100 mile radius?:smallamused:


Isn't that basically what Leech does? make the real world occur in a bubble close by him? :smalltongue:




Re Superman vs. Hulk: Wouldn't Superman just dodge?


Superman doesn't dodge a lot of things.. I have to wonder why his super-speed isn't also accompanied by super-reaction.

Although it has already been proven that his super-speed is not as fast as others. Heroes like Flash and Impulse are both able to outrun Supes.

[TheMeanDM]

Now for something completely different....since strength isn't a complete decider of the outcome of a fight.


****

In the Justice League Unlimited cartoon....

Galatea (the clone of Supergirl) was somehow genetically manipulated by Dr. Whatshisname to physically mature/advance to the age where her powers would be in their prime.

I recall she was pressing some massive machine with a number readout.

I know that the # represented a weight...but...

Does anyone recall what those #'s read?

I was thinking it was in the millions (of tons) and she was doing it easily.

[Invisible Queen]

Throwing Hulk into the sun from a long, long distance would be a surefire win for Superman if he has to kill. He could do it to basically anyone - maybe he has to get closer if the opponent can fly.

Have anyone looked into how much explosive force et cetera the sun has? I think a lot of comic writers should have done that. I doubt even pre-crisis Superman could survive anywhere near the sun, with the levels of invulnerability he has shown in the comics. Nothing we can easily imagine compares to the ferocious destructive energy inside that ol' 1 389 000 kilometers in diameter fusion reactor.

[UglyPanda]

In Infinite Crisis, Superman flew through a red sun and came out without his powers for a year. Superman is naturally quite heat resistant.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Have anyone looked into how much explosive force et cetera the sun has? I think a lot of comic writers should have done that. I doubt even pre-crisis Superman could survive anywhere near the sun, with the levels of invulnerability he has shown in the comics. Nothing we can easily imagine compares to the ferocious destructive energy inside that ol' 1 389 000 kilometers in diameter fusion reactor.

ah, but Superman absorbs and draws power from the sun. Meaning the closer he is, the more powerful he gets. Still, i doubt he could survive inside, or even on the surface. Well, pre-crisis he could shrug off multiple atomic blasts, so yeah, he could take the surfce at the very least. Hmm...who could...Sentry has "the power of a million exploding suns," so one yellow sun in the prime of its life should be no sweat. umm...ah yes- Apollo, from DC's WildStorm imprint. He gets Superman-type opwers from solar energy as well, but more directly. He's been shown to be able to walk on the surface, so he could probably withstand the inside for a short while at least. In Green Lantern: Rebirth, Kyle drove one of the Guardian's ships through the sun to get Hal's body, so it might be possible a strong GL could withstand a solar dive.

[Invisible Queen]

I would argue that in none of those examples the writers had a very good idea about those suns they were writing about. Which was what I was complaining about. The poor research. >_>

[Thexare Blademoon]

In Infinite Crisis, Superman flew through a red sun and came out without his powers for a year. Superman is naturally quite heat resistant.

But how would he have continued flying through space and, presumably (not a comic fan, I just read the discussions) back to Earth, without his powers? Without dying? :smallconfused:

[UglyPanda]

Massive momentum (physics-defying faster-than-light travel, by the way) followed by crashing into Mogo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogo) and hitching a ride back home. A large portion of the DC universe is space-capable and capable of taking passengers.

Also, the year in which he lacks powers is 52 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/52_%28comic_book%29).

The DC universe is rather goofy.

[Grod_The_Giant]

52 was a great series, though.

[DDL]

Massive momentum (physics-defying faster-than-light travel, by the way) followed by crashing into Mogo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogo) and hitching a ride back home. A large portion of the DC universe is space-capable and capable of taking passengers.

Also, the year in which he lacks powers is 52 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/52_%28comic_book%29).

The DC universe is rather goofy.

Awesome! He manages to survive crashing into a PLANET while travelling at superluminal speeds, WITHOUT powers? That's superbly goofy. :smallbiggrin:

[Yuki Akuma]

Awesome! He manages to survive crashing into a PLANET while travelling at superluminal speeds, WITHOUT powers? That's superbly goofy. :smallbiggrin:

To be fair, Mogo does have superpowers that could cushion Supes' fall.

[psycojester]

Personally i can forgive a lot of stupidity from the DC universe, it gave us John Constantine and Swamp Thing.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Marvel has always had worse psudo-science then the DC, anyway. Especially the Fantastic Four.

[DDL]

Interesting..I've always thought of it as being the other way round.

Perhaps it's because I find Marvel kinda 'tries' to come up with silly scientific explanations within a realistic context ("nothing can travel faster than light, thus we'll invent 'the negative zone' and go through that" or similar).

DC seems to just go "hell with it, he's superman: he can travel faster than light because he's awesome". So this inevitably means less pseudoscience. A boomtube is a boomtube, no attempt at explanation as to actual mechanics. :smalltongue:

Does that make sense? I just always think of the superman and co. universe as inherently more "cartoony" than other 'universes'.

[Blue Paladin]

A boomtube is a boomtube, no attempt at explanation as to actual mechanics. :smalltongue:Now be fair... you try explaining divine machinery. The Marvel equivalent of New God technology is probably something along the lines of Galactus' tech. Or I guess Titan tech (as in Thanos et al) is a bit closer.

[UglyPanda]

I find both companies to possess a good deal of silliness when it comes to physics. I also respect Marvel's attempts to explain their silliness. Isn't Superman supposed to be slower than The Flash, who tops out at the speed of light? It should have taken him years to finish the fight with Superboy-prime. Is light somehow faster in the DC universe? Whenever a writer for any company needs something to end spectacularly, they screw with continuity.

[T.Titan]

To be fair, Mogo does have superpowers that could cushion Supes' fall.

I'm pretty sure they crashed hard enough to dislodge some earth... i guess red suns aren't as depowering as they used to be.


Throwing Hulk into the sun from a long, long distance would be a surefire win for Superman if he has to kill.

But he'd have to hold on to that person long enough to heave... and his superspeed seems to disappear whenever he's fighting someone without 300mph reflexes.


Superman would not be harmed by a punch even from an infinitely enraged Warhulk.
Does anyone dare disagree?

Now where's the physics on something being indestructible?!

And Hulk's powers are all in Banner's screwed up head, like all gamma mutates, so chemicals in his brain only count as much as Banner lets them to.

Another thing that annoys me about Dc is Flash vibrating bullets through him... with his speed why doesn't he just get the heck out of the way of the bullet, he's only about 10x faster then any bullet anyway.


The Flash, who tops out at the speed of light?

It's been a while since he doesn't...

[Yuki Akuma]

I find both companies to possess a good deal of silliness when it comes to physics. I also respect Marvel's attempts to explain their silliness. Isn't Superman supposed to be slower than The Flash, who tops out at the speed of light? It should have taken him years to finish the fight with Superboy-prime. Is light somehow faster in the DC universe? Whenever a writer for any company needs something to end spectacularly, they screw with continuity.

Many incarnations of the Flash (including the current one) can run faster than light.

Yeah, I don't really get it either.

[T.Titan]

Many incarnations of the Flash (including the current one) can run faster than light.

Yeah, I don't really get it either.

Well light does have different speeds depending on the medium it travels through, and i recall something about some scientists getting it to move faster then in the void in some experiment... so that's not even the most silly thing about the Flash...

[UglyPanda]

Light only moves slower in certain mediums because it is refracted. Light moving in a straight line has a constant speed.

[DDL]

Nice point! Given the right conditions, you can slow light down below walking speed.

Admittedly, the 'right conditions' are terribly esoteric, but hey.

I'm intrigued by the 'faster than light in a vacuum' thing though, as that vaguely rings a bell. Got a link?

While were at it: have some apparent evidence of galaxies spewing out stuff at superluminal speeds (http://www.stsci.edu/ftp/science/m87/m87.html).

:smallsmile:

[Yuki Akuma]

Light only moves slower in certain mediums because it is refracted. Light moving in a straight line has a constant speed.

This.

You can't make light go faster than C unless you mess around with time dilation (and then it's only an illusion brought about by the different time indexes). You can make light stop in its tracks, but you can't make it go faster.

[TheMeanDM]

Can we get back on topic, please?

Super Strength

not

Super Speed


Thanks :)

[Hushdawg]

Best superstrength fight ever: Thing vs Hulk vs Guido vs Colossus vs Spider-Man vs Juggernaut vs Rhino vs Popeye.


Popeye wins.

[Beleriphon]

Although it has already been proven that his super-speed is not as fast as others. Heroes like Flash and Impulse are both able to outrun Supes.

If 99% of the stuff in the universe can't hurt you would really bother getting out of the way?

[Logic]

Best superstrength fight ever: Thing vs Hulk vs Guido vs Colossus vs Spider-Man vs Juggernaut vs Rhino vs Popeye.


Popeye wins.

Only "with preperation."

[....]

Popeye + Spinach = strongest most indestructible person in all universes, multiverses, realms, planes, continuities and fanfics

Confrim/Deny?

[Hushdawg]

Only "with preperation."

Nah, he has a pocket of spinach can production in every uniform and he can chug that stuff in the middle of a fight with no problem.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Interesting..I've always thought of it as being the other way round.

Perhaps it's because I find Marvel kinda 'tries' to come up with silly scientific explanations within a realistic context ("nothing can travel faster than light, thus we'll invent 'the negative zone' and go through that" or similar).

DC seems to just go "hell with it, he's superman: he can travel faster than light because he's awesome". So this inevitably means less pseudoscience. A boomtube is a boomtube, no attempt at explanation as to actual mechanics. :smalltongue:

Does that make sense? I just always think of the superman and co. universe as inherently more "cartoony" than other 'universes'.
that was in the SILVER AGE. See my rant about that in the other thread. And have you read old FF comics? Atomic tanks and nuclear jet-packs and spray-on oxygen and trans-molecular-uber-deux-ex-machina machines of DOOM!

Oh, and for super-strength...I think that the Ultimate Colossus is right up there in super-strength. He was 'beating the crap out of Thor for 10 minutes', and recover what looked like a Typhoon-class nuclear submarine...one that weighs something like 50,000 tons (48,000 tonnes).

[DDL]

Well, technically if you're going to use 'old FF' as examples of pseudoscience silliness, then 'silver age DC' is a viable counterpoint. But I wasn't even using silver age as a reference.

You seem convinced that anyone who reads superdickery will INSTANTLY assume all DC comics are like that, which is of course not true, and even if it were, it would apply to marvel too (Spiderman fights library books? O_o).

I've been reading more DC recently (depleted my local Borders of marvel stuff), and I still get the impression I've mentioned above.

Marvel tries (poorly, admittedly) to explain some sort of molecular/atomic reasoning for silly things like 'vibranium' and 'adamantium', but I've not spotted any decent attempts to explain the properties of kryptonite, or how metallo actually works, other than perhaps "by kryptonite". By all means, educate me. :smallsmile:

One DC thing that still really bugs me, if I'm honest, is Zatanna. They REALLY need to ditch "magic by the method of saying words backwards", because that's really silly.


Oh, and a thought occurs: I may be getting off to a bad comparative start purely because Marvel uses 'real life' cities for most of its protagonists, and DC often uses fictional ones: this might be putting me in a 'DC is less realistic' mindset from the get-go. Ho hum.

[Hushdawg]

Popeye + Spinach = strongest most indestructible person in all universes, multiverses, realms, planes, continuities and fanfics

Confrim/Deny?

Absolutely confirmed.. he was kickin' butt even before WWII and is actually older than Superman.

He defeated the entire Japanese armed forces in five minutes.

That's awesome right there.

[Grod_The_Giant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptonite#The_science_behind_kryptonite

and you can't explain magic. In the words of Captain Vimes, "You can't explain it- it's magic! That's the trouble with magic, it does everything by magic!" Anyway, I once saw Zatanna say that the speaking-backwards thing was 'just an exercise in concentration.' It's their shtick.

[DDL]

Nice link!

I wish it was more explicit in it's 'silver age or not' distinctions though: please tell me these are from the 'silly' era of superman:

Superman has suffered the following effects upon exposure to various pieces of Red Kryptonite: being turned into a dragon, a non-powered giant, a dwarf, an ant-headed humanoid, a lunatic, and an amnesiac; being made unable to see anything colored green; growing incredibly long hair, nails, and beard; being rendered totally powerless; growing fat; gaining the ability to read thoughts; losing his invulnerability along the left side of his body; being split into an evil Superman and a good Clark Kent; being rendered unable to speak or write anything but Kryptonian, the language used on Krypton; growing an extra set of arms; becoming clumsy when trying to help out; swapping bodies with the person nearest him upon exposure to it; transferring his powers; rapidly aging; and multiple personality changes.

I mean..a dragon?!?

[Grod_The_Giant]

well, as far as I know, post-crisis red Kryptonite is a synthetic element (or compound, possibly) made by Batman. It causes Superman extreme pain- when Ra's a Ghul used it, it turned Superman's skin transparent, making the process of solar energy absorption a lot more direct and painful.

[Blue Paladin]

Popeye + Spinach = strongest most indestructible person in all universes, multiverses, realms, planes, continuities and fanfics

Confrim/Deny?Absolute deny. Check the power level of Superman as shown in Superfriends. (This is exactly the kind of thing that Grod hates about the Silver Age :) )

Also, because you are allowing the inclusion of fanfics, Mary Sue.