Visual Difference between Yuan ti pureblood and Human draconic sorcerer?

[tieren]

I am building a Yuan ti sea sorcerer for playtesting. I am thinking her background will be related to being a spy for a Yuan ti city.

In the party I am going to have her pretend to be a human dragon sorcerer. The Yuan ti description in the Volo's book says the purebloods look mostly human with some snake elements (like scales or different eyes). The dragon sorcerer description also talks about some draconic elements appearing in the characters appearance like scales and such.

Is it reasonable that the snake like elements will resemble closely enough the dragon like elements as to be generally passable (maybe not to an actual dragon sorcerer)?

[Connington]

Potentially, yeah. Details of the con will depend on how familiar NPCs are with the exact abilities of draconic sorcerers, Yuan Ti, and (especially) whatever class you play. Don't flaunt your poison immunity to win drinking contests and you have a good chance of fooling most of the people most of the time.

[NecroDancer]

Potentially, yeah. Details of the con will depend on how familiar NPCs are with the exact abilities of draconic sorcerers, Yuan Ti, and (especially) whatever class you play. Don't flaunt your poison immunity to win drinking contests and you have a good chance of fooling most of the people most of the time.

Unless you say your a green dragon sorcerer.

[Spiritchaser]

In my campaign yes, although I'm coming at it backwards...

There I have an NPC yuan ti dragon sorcerer... Who looks the part of either well enough to pass. He's an interesting guy and doesn't think at all like the yuan ti. He actually felt something like emotion. Twice. He doesn't think this is a bad thing.

The yuan ti, and particularly his half sister consider him a loathsome misanthropic abomination... But not every yuan ti knows Who or what he is, as such he functions as a spy on the yuan ti... At least to a modest degree...

I really don't know what the players will do when they meet him.

It might depend on what their good cop bad cop routine pries from that captured half sister...

[Naanomi]

At the least it should be an easy disguise/deception check to pass off

[Sir cryosin]

It like saying dragons, snakes, and fish all look alike because they all have scales. There a few reasons I'm saying no.
1. Your scales are not a color of a dragon. Your scales will be in color of skin tones. That's why they look more human.
2. Yuan-ti scales look more like a snakes. Where dragons , snakes and fish have different styles and different way scales acts.
3. In a lot of art it shows. Dragon sorcerer with patches of scales. Where yuan-ti pure blood show that there skin is make of scales. But this last one is a weak one because it changes lot and it depends on setting another factors.

[Naanomi]

It like saying dragons, snakes, and fish all look alike because they all have scales. There a few reasons I'm saying no.
1. Your scales are not a color of a dragon. Your scales will be in color of skin tones. That's why they look more human.
2. Yuan-ti scales look more like a snakes. Where dragons , snakes and fish have different styles and different way scales acts.
3. In a lot of art it shows. Dragon sorcerer with patches of scales. Where yuan-ti pure blood show that there skin is make of scales. But this last one is a weak one because it changes lot and it depends on setting another factors.
Normally I'd agree, but in the case of both Yuan-Ti and Dragon Sorcerers there is a lot of variability in appearance... there isn't a 'standard' look to compare between. Sure, that last dragon sorcerer you met had bigger scales than this guy but... the one before didn't have any scales on body parts you could see at all. Whose to say?

[tieren]

Unless you say your a green dragon sorcerer.

That was my plan.

My understanding was that the Yuan ti scales could be in patches too, particularly since it wasn't required, just one possible manifestation. I was thinking patches of scaly skin and yellow slitted eyes.

I was also picturing trying to use tattoos to mask some of the actual scale parts and to create the illusion of others in other places. I am picturing tattoos of green sea serpents.

I agree the scales will be qualitatively different, the dragon scales effect AC afterall so must be more substantial.

I am thinking making the character female may help explain why the scales are less substantial (unless someone is familiar with female draconic sorceress), and between some deception and the visual masking with the tattoos, I'll end up with someone most people won't have reason to investigate deeper.

I plan to play her as lawful neutral, so its not an effort to backstab the party or anything (as long as we avoid direct interaction with higher ranking Yuan ti). I see her as loyally advancing the interests of her people, just like any other sensible person might do.

[Sigreid]

Realistically speaking a typical D&D world commoner has seen more weird than most of us will in our whole lives. Things that appear friendly enough are likely greeted with a shrug.

[Zene]

Dragon sorcerer appearance mod is very specific: "parts of your skin are covered by a thin sheen of dragon-like scales." At a later level you grow wings. Neither of those have much variability as written, and you'd have to work pretty hard to get the first one to overlap with Yuan-Ti Pureblood features.

My own Yuan-Ti dragon sorcerer has yellow eyes and a forked tongue from Yuan-Ti part; and a thin sheen of brass scales over the rest of her from dragon sorcery.

[Ogre Mage]

Funny you should mention this. I was considering having my next PC be a Yuan-ti Pureblood draconic sorcerer with the charlatan background, passing herself off as a human sorcerer-noblewoman from distant lands.

[Finback]

It like saying dragons, snakes, and fish all look alike because they all have scales. There a few reasons I'm saying no.
1. Your scales are not a color of a dragon. Your scales will be in color of skin tones. That's why they look more human.
2. Yuan-ti scales look more like a snakes. Where dragons , snakes and fish have different styles and different way scales acts.
3. In a lot of art it shows. Dragon sorcerer with patches of scales. Where yuan-ti pure blood show that there skin is make of scales. But this last one is a weak one because it changes lot and it depends on setting another factors.

Have to disagree, in that that's an entirely cosmetic notion - there is no canonical description of what dragon scales look like (hell, look at a 1e black dragon compared to later stuff - they barely even look like the same kind of animal). Plus, snakes can exhibit a wide range of scale shapes and designs across many species.

Lastly, most people probably won't know a dragon scale from a yuan-ti scale, so will happily believe a person who says they have draconic ancestry. Some people can't tell an Australian accent from a New Zealand one*, so something for creatures most people have never seen in life would be as easily passed over.


* seriously, when I went to the US the second time, I was in a Waffle House at 2am, ordered some food. The woman said, "so y'all are frum Noo Yawk?"
"Uhh, no, quite a bit further, actually".
I could understand if she thought I was British or something, but a NY accent and an Aussie one are so far apart..

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Funny you should mention this. I was considering having my next PC be a Yuan-ti Pureblood draconic sorcerer with the charlatan background, passing herself off as a human sorcerer-noblewoman from distant lands.

Huh. I made someone like that. Yuan-Tie purblood passing herself off as a traveler from a distant land, charlatan background and all. Except her true class was bard.

[Zene]

Funny you should mention this. I was considering having my next PC be a Yuan-ti Pureblood draconic sorcerer with the charlatan background, passing herself off as a human sorcerer-noblewoman from distant lands.

Lol that's mine too! Yuan-ti sorcerer charlatan pretending to be a human noble but actually a Njaran spy. Except she's got two levels of warlock and uses the mask of many faces invocation to hide her yuan-ti features.

[tieren]

Dragon sorcerer appearance mod is very specific: "parts of your skin are covered by a thin sheen of dragon-like scales." At a later level you grow wings. Neither of those have much variability as written, and you'd have to work pretty hard to get the first one to overlap with Yuan-Ti Pureblood features.


I agree those parts are very specific, but there is some fluff too about draconic features starting to show, that our table always meant the player could manifest other purely cosmetic issues as they wished (like weirdly colored or slitted eyes).

I also agree commoners won't know the difference.

The issue is I mean to keep the characters true race a secret from the party members (at least initially). I think if we get past the initial meeting with a few descriptions and I claim to be a sorceress of draconic ancestry and they can see I have some scales that it will probably never come up again.

[Matrix_Walker]

I'm pretty sure you can simply say the reptilian skin patches (or what have you) are in areas covered by your character's clothing and that they simply appear otherwise human.

[Tanarii]

Is your character trying to disguise himself as a dragon sorcerer, or trying to tell people that's what he is and get them to believe him?

The first depends on them already knowing what a dragon sorcerer looks like. The second is a lie that you're trying to get them to believe. In the first case, mechanically it's either an Dexterity (Disguise Kit) or Intelligence (Disguise Kit) check, but what they think and how they react depends on if you succeeded, followed by if they recognize a Dragon Sorcerer or Yuan Ti Pureblood, followed by how they'd react to one of them. In the latter, it's a Charisma (Deception check) to make them believe the lie, and how they react depends on if they believed the lie, followed by how they'd react to that.

[hymer]

I'm pretty sure you can simply say the reptilian skin patches (or what have you) are in areas covered by your character's clothing and that they simply appear otherwise human.

Wise words. Exactly how visible the snake parts are is up for debate, and if yuan-ti are able to infiltrate human society with moles, some of them must be quite hard to distinguish from humans. It may be that all you get is a lack of body hair, a distaste for vegetables and unusually fused senses of taste and smell.

[JackPhoenix]

It all depends on how familiar people you're trying to disguise from are with either. Dragon sorcerers should be rare (all classed characters are supposed to be rare, then how rare is draconic sorcerer amongst all class and subclass combinations). If the people in the area you're in are having trouble with Yuan-ti, they may be suspicious of anything with scales, no matter what it is.

[tieren]

It all depends on how familiar people you're trying to disguise from are with either. Dragon sorcerers should be rare (all classed characters are supposed to be rare, then how rare is draconic sorcerer amongst all class and subclass combinations). If the people in the area you're in are having trouble with Yuan-ti, they may be suspicious of anything with scales, no matter what it is.

I'm trying to deceive the other players, and not even so much the characters but the players themselves. I want to present something that most people familiar with the PhB would recognize as a draconic sorcerer and not prompt further inquiry.

[JackPhoenix]

Ah. Well, in that case, I think you're out of luck, depending how familiar the players are with the mechanics and how much attention they are paying. The moment you use subclass ability NOT from the draconic sorcerer (Curse of the Sea, propably), the jig is up. Metagame deception will be revealed through metagame means, and (depending on your table), even if you're careful, you may be revealed through events beyond your control... rolling saves against magic with advantage (this one is a dead giveaway that Yuan-ti is involved), taking half damage from fire after sixth level (though that one is easier to get), etc.