What would be the most broken if you could pick two archetypes for one class to have?

[Arenabait]

I mean having a level 20 sorcerer with BOTH wild magic AND draconic sorcery. What class/archetypes would be the most broken, assuming single classing, and what race?. If you feel like it, include both RAW and UA, or even the MTG Plane shifts!

[Oramac]

A Divination/Illusion Wizard would be obscene in the hands of a creative player.

Also, Devotion/Vengeance/Ancients (any combination) Paladin would be pretty awesome.

[JeenLeen]

I'm going to think a bit class by class (although someone else could probably do it better.) I think the answer is probably some spellcaster, for most broken.
Just by PHB.


Bard: now you've got decent martial ability & awesome access to spells and skills. Seems like it might trump rogue as a skillmonkey.
Barbarian: nice to have both, but doesn't seem broken.
Cleric: due to limited uses of Channel Divinity, this seems to be the least increase in raw power. Some extra spells known is nice. I'd probably say Nature (for heavy armor + Shillelagh for Wisdom to damage/accuracy) + something else.
Druid: awesome shifting + spellcasting versatility & recharging. The Natural Recovery of Land druid mixed with spending spells to boost a shifted form's HP seems powerful.
Fighter: Battlemaster + Eldritch Knight seems a powerful combo with a lot of utility.
Monk: --don't really know enough to comment--
Paladin: all seem powerful, but limited use of Channel Divinity has similar limitations to Cleric. I'd probably go Vengeance with something else, due to Hunter's Mark.
Ranger: ...still kinda bad without UA.
Rogue: I'd go with Thief + Arcane Trickster, for spellcasting with the awesome level 17 ability of Thief. Though the extra damage output Assassin can potentially get might put it over one of those.
Sorcerer: pretty good. Still dislike how Wild Magic has a chance of killing you at early levels.
Warlock: would this be patrons or pacts? If patrons, well, they seem about even to me, depending on what you want. For pacts, I'd think Chain + Tome if you want spellcasting focus, Chain + Blade if you want martial focus. Though I guess the third combo is about as good.
Wizard: hard to contemplate all the combos, but probably Diviner + something else, to get those (essentially) rerolls.

[Mith]

While it would not be as broken as a spell caster, if applying this approach to the barbarian class allowed one to double up on Totem abilities that would be nice.

[Foxhound438]

I mean... free features add some power, but nothing jumps out to me as "broken combo" material.

If everyone at the table gets 2 subclasses I don't think it would be an issue. Probably the strongest thing you could get would be features stacking with basically itself (double divine strike, for example, or a fighter with BM+any of the superiority die UA)

[clash]

Rogue: Thieves reflexes + assassinate could give 2 turns of surprise

Cleric: Life/Nature for goodberry healing total of 40 hp for 1st level spell

[RickAllison]

Going Long Death with another monk archetype could be great. Long Death has a greater emphasis on non-ki abilities like at-will fear and the temporary HP, which could go well with a ki-heavy archetype like Open Hand. Open Hand could freely burn through ki for Flurry and Stunning Strikes to shut down important enemies, and still be able to shut down attacking groups without any ki through the fear. Also opens up a fun combination with Tranquility, as you can use the fear aura all you like and never break the sanctuary effect.

Far from broken, but it has excellent synergy.

[Dudu]

Cleric would definitely be Nature + Arcana.

With Green Flame Blade on, that cleric would be able to add not only his 1d8/2d8 damage (who he would choose), but also a Wis Mod to the damage. And that's only the at will damage. He could choose to bump Wis and only invest in Con otherwise. Fullplate, spells from Wizard (such as Wish).


Wizards could use Diviner + Something else. If that broken Lore Wizard is on, that would be the "something else".


Fighter could benefit from the mild Champion bonuses to aid the other more juicy archetypes, such as Battlemaster. An arcane archer that crits more often is also nice.

[Fishyninja]

Going Long Death with another monk archetype could be great. Long Death has a greater emphasis on non-ki abilities like at-will fear and the temporary HP, which could go well with a ki-heavy archetype like Open Hand. Open Hand could freely burn through ki for Flurry and Stunning Strikes to shut down important enemies, and still be able to shut down attacking groups without any ki through the fear. Also opens up a fun combination with Tranquility, as you can use the fear aura all you like and never break the sanctuary effect.

Far from broken, but it has excellent synergy.
From playing as a WOTLD Monk I can tell you that the Temp HP has saved my butt on multiple occasions, yet to use the Fear skill.....but soon, SOON.

Again as you said it allows you to utilise your monk skills for more monk-y type things also let us not forget that at level 14 you get 14 chances to evade death and the level 17 Save or Die move is pretty good. It would be interesting to see if you could stack Quivering Palm with Touch of the Long Death:



Quivering Palm


3 ki points = Insta 0 or 10d10Necrotic on a failed save.

Touch of the Long Death


Up to 10 ki ponts = 2d10 Necrotic Damage per Ki point, half on a failed save.
Therefore (if my maths is correct) either an Insta death or potential for 200 damage.

Not bad for a touch action

[JAL_1138]

For Paladin, I might put Ancients with Devotion, for Devotion's Sacred Weapon channel divinity feature. The accuracy boost from that plus Bless makes for a brutal GWM+PAM build by negating the accuracy penalty, coupled with the Ancients pally's Aura of Warding to protect against spells. Toss in Elemental Weapon instead of Bless for even more damage.

[Sception]

Paladin oathbreaker of tyranny. huge, party-friendly fear pulse once per rest, combined with an aura for disadvantage to saves against fear. Combine with tunnel fighter and sentinel to prevent enemies from escaping - they don't even get to attempt a second save after failing the first until they get more than 30 feet away.

[solidork]

I would personally want to play a Bard.

[jaappleton]

Not the most powerful, but...

I want to make Future Trunks from DBZ. So Sun Soul / Kensei Monk.

Let me think for a few and I'll get back about the most OP BS that I can come up with. :smallbiggrin:

[NecroDancer]

Wait would the cleric have both of his domain spell list prepared? If so that's really strong.

Also wizard just got a superboast.

[jaappleton]

Most fun to put together? I think it really goes to Monk. Long Death and Open Hand. Lv17. Oh, you failed your save? Don't care, here's SO MUCH NECROTIC DAMAGE. Plus the Temp HP, self-heal, knocking people around the battlefield, almost never dying past lv11...

[Sir cryosin]

I would like to play a bladesinger and adjuration wizard. My adj 18 fighter 2 guy was very tanky and had great survivability. So if I go bladesinger and adjuration I can make a really battle mage character.

[Fishyninja]

From playing as a WOTLD Monk I can tell you that the Temp HP has saved my butt on multiple occasions, yet to use the Fear skill.....but soon, SOON.

Again as you said it allows you to utilise your monk skills for more monk-y type things also let us not forget that at level 14 you get 14 chances to evade death and the level 17 Save or Die move is pretty good. It would be interesting to see if you could stack Quivering Palm with Touch of the Long Death:



Quivering Palm


3 ki points = Insta 0 or 10d10Necrotic on a failed save.

Touch of the Long Death


Up to 10 ki ponts = 2d10 Necrotic Damage per Ki point, half on a failed save.
Therefore (if my maths is correct) either an Insta death or potential for 200 damage.

Not bad for a touch action


Most fun to put together? I think it really goes to Monk. Long Death and Open Hand. Lv17. Oh, you failed your save? Don't care, here's SO MUCH NECROTIC DAMAGE. Plus the Temp HP, self-heal, knocking people around the battlefield, almost never dying past lv11...
Beat you to it!:smalltongue::smalltongue::smalltongue::smallto ngue:

[tieren]

Can you go crazy with the warlock and do a hexblade/tome with archfey/chain?

[MrStabby]

I am not yet sure exactly how... but pretty sure a bard would rock pretty hard.

Now your bardic inspiration can be used for pretty much anything.
You get two attacks - overcoming the lore bard's problem that their spells don't quite go far enough and they don't have a recovery ability like sorcerer, wizard or druid.

You also get additional magical secrets at level 6. Now you can be the terror you wanted to be. Armour of Agathys and spirit guardians to make a close up terror of a bard?

Maybe make rangers jealous - sit behind conjured animals shooting a bow with sharpshooter.#


This is all at level 6.

[RickAllison]

From playing as a WOTLD Monk I can tell you that the Temp HP has saved my butt on multiple occasions, yet to use the Fear skill.....but soon, SOON.

Again as you said it allows you to utilise your monk skills for more monk-y type things also let us not forget that at level 14 you get 14 chances to evade death and the level 17 Save or Die move is pretty good. It would be interesting to see if you could stack Quivering Palm with Touch of the Long Death:



Quivering Palm


3 ki points = Insta 0 or 10d10Necrotic on a failed save.

Touch of the Long Death


Up to 10 ki ponts = 2d10 Necrotic Damage per Ki point, half on a failed save.
Therefore (if my maths is correct) either an Insta death or potential for 200 damage.

Not bad for a touch action

Do note that the detonation of Quivering Palm is a second action and has to be applied on a hit, not a touch. Still, you have QP for combat assassination and Touch of the Long Death for being able to do it without attacking.

For extra points, grab two levels of Druid. Infiltrate as a bug, touch them for subtle kills or bite them for the full shebang.

[Fishyninja]

Do note that the detonation of Quivering Palm is a second action and has to be applied on a hit, not a touch. Still, you have QP for combat assassination and Touch of the Long Death for being able to do it without attacking.

For extra points, grab two levels of Druid. Infiltrate as a bug, touch them for subtle kills or bite them for the full shebang.
Ah you are right however TOTLD is a touch action, odd that.

Was the maths correct?

[Drackolus]

Cleric: Life/Nature for goodberry healing total of 40 hp for 1st level spell

Goodberry isn't on the nature cleric list, unfortunately.

Arcana+knowledge sounds rad. Nature+life is still really good. Consider that the cleric's damage comes from their subclass. At level 8, that's either double wisdom to cantrips or double divine strike dice. You could also do something like nature+arcana, and do booming blade and gfb with your elemental divine-striking shillelagh. Not to mention that you're basically a cleric/wizard/druid.
Double bard gives you charisma shillelagh and the armor and multiattack to use it though. I'd rather be a glamour/lore bard though.
If we're allowing ua, draconic+(new) favored soul gets you a bigger list of elemental spells to choose from - like Flame Strike. Plus, a free Toughness feat.

[CursedRhubarb]

Warlock Hexblade Blade boon/ Undying Light Tome boon could be a lot of fun. Lots of cantrips for melee options and excellent ranged choices. After lvl 10 you become a nightmare to get down and keep down with a 50% chance to turn hits into a miss and your revival AoE nuke the first time they do manage to get you down. Then you also have the UL healing and bonus damage on fire spells like GFB. Haven't done the math but between UL, hex, HB curse, and GFB or other attacks the damage potential looks like it can get pretty high on a cha build with a longsword or other Versitile weapon (not using Cursebringer since, though the nuke would be nice, it is a bit crazy mad)

[RulesJD]

Ultimately, the most broken would be Wizard, which isn't terribly surprising.

I'd combo Abjuration + Evocation.

Abjuration makes you the best at everything a Wizard is supposed to be the best at while negating the downside of being a Wizard (squishyness).

Evocation then makes you the most powerful Blaster, dropping bombs willy nilly. Wade into combat, drop Fireballs at your feat, rinse repeat. There's nothing you're not good at outside of healing, but that's for other people anyways.

Secondary consideration for Divination because of Portent, but broken usually goes to the "always on" abilities.

[Drackolus]

Tempest theurge+evoker would be even more devastating.
Life theurge+abjuration is more my speed, though.

[retaliation08]

A Stormy Sea Sorcerer would not only be alliterative, but also be an extremely fun and hardy build.

- you fly
- you have resistance to bps
- you have immunity to lightning and thunder
- you are "immune" to crits
- you don't need food, water, or sleep (actually a 1 or 2 level dip in warlock would be awesome for getting tons of SP, just take short rests while everyone else takes a long rest. Though I don't know how health regain would work here)
- you can use a reaction to damage and push an attacker while reducing the already halved damage and moving 30 feet. (50 feet of distance between you and the attacker, or you can chase after he is pushed EDIT: actually these might have to be taken as separate reactions)
- you can breathe underwater
- you can control weather
- synergy with curse of the sea and lightning spells
- YOU ARE A SORCERER

[Asmotherion]

I mean having a level 20 sorcerer with BOTH wild magic AND draconic sorcery. What class/archetypes would be the most broken, assuming single classing, and what race?. If you feel like it, include both RAW and UA, or even the MTG Plane shifts!

Hexblade/Old One Patron Warlock, for Claw of Akamar (single handed weapon) instead of Doombringer, so that you can attack/damage with Cha instead of Str.

Dragon/Storm Sorcerer could be very effective in battle. Alternativelly, with UA enabled, any combination of Dragon/Shadow/Stone/Storm would be amazing.

Bear Totem/Bearserker Barbarian sounds menacing in theory.

Eldritch Knight/Battlemaster Fighter could come up with some prety nice combos.

Ancients/Devotion Paladin seems interesting.

Abjuration/Evocation Wizard is quite straitforward. Enchantment/Illusion is also quite Thematic. Abjuration/Divination too, eventhough I believe Divination is a bit Over-Rated, it can combo very well with Abjuration. That said, any 2 schools combined can be amazing

[toapat]

Not the most powerful, but...

I want to make Future Trunks from DBZ. So Sun Soul / Kensei Monk.

Let me think for a few and I'll get back about the most OP BS that I can come up with. :smallbiggrin:

while Sun Soul/Any is going to be a fun monk, there is so much Antisynergy between "Vegeta/Trunks: The Class" and every other monk subclass.

kinda similar but opposite to the paladdin problem where your subclass doesnt really interact with the others.

[RickAllison]

What about a Bladesinger/Abjurer? The defensive features of such would just be ridiculous...

[Arelai]

I think everyone is underestimating the barbarian for this. You get 3 GWM attacks, plus a reaction attack-all with advantage, on a crit you add extra weapon dice-up to 3d12 on top of the crit.
That's 4d12+21x4 if they all hit. (21 is 10gwm, +7 str mod, +4rage). Add an extra 4d12 for each crit. All while taking half damage from everything. And being immune to fright and charms.

[MrStabby]

I think the latest UA warlocks are pretty good for this. Taking two patrons opens up a lot of possibilities.

A fey hexblade would be something I would like for fun.

A fiendish hexblade would be a little terrifying. You could use Cha to attack with the mace of dispater for example.

[Logosloki]

Divination/Lore Wizard? Divination/Lore Wizard!

For personal fun and enjoyment maybe X/Hexblade for warlock. With all the new invocations though it will take time to parse down to which I would side with hexblade.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

How about Theurge/Lore Wizard? That's about as close to `Know ALL the Magic!` as you can get.

[jaappleton]

How about Theurge/Lore Wizard? That's about as close to `Know ALL the Magic!` as you can get.

Any spell, in any shape (Cone, radius, line, etc), now with any rider, can be maximized by Theurge's channel divinity.....

[DragonSorcererX]

Bard - Lore and Valor for those nice Ranger and Paladin Spells.
Rogue - Assassin and Arcane Trickster for those nice invisible Assassinate Feature triggering.
Paladin - Devotion and Vengeance for extra visual special effects...
Sorcerer - Red/Gold Dragon Heritage and Favored Soul for a Draconic Flame Strike.
Wizard - Diviner and Evoker, because rolls...
Wizard - Illusionist and Enchanter to literally f*ck with your mind...

[MrStabby]

Something like light and death cleric could be good - twinned cantrips and add wisdom to damage.

Not utterly overpowered like some, but certainly a nice bonus.