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sage20500
2017-02-16, 02:01 PM
Im currently working on making a discipline for tome of battle thats flavored to come from the Unseelie Fey, and i'm trying to figure out what levels a stike that inflicts a -2, -4, or a -6 (supposed to be one of the lesser, normal, then greater strikes) penalty to either str or dex (not sure if con gets penalties applied to it ever). The target would get a fort save against the penalty. The original idea was that the least sticks around until they recieve some kind of magical healing, the normal one takes remove curse, and the greater break enchantment.

Side note, should i possibly have a 4th tier to the trilogy that mimics greater bestow curse, except that they can only pick the ability penalty option?

Djinn_in_Tonic
2017-02-16, 02:29 PM
Im currently working on making a discipline for tome of battle thats flavored to come from the Unseelie Fey, and i'm trying to figure out what levels a stike that inflicts a -2, -4, or a -6 (supposed to be one of the lesser, normal, then greater strikes) penalty to either str or dex (not sure if con gets penalties applied to it ever). The target would get a fort save against the penalty. The original idea was that the least sticks around until they recieve some kind of magical healing, the normal one takes remove curse, and the greater break enchantment.

Side note, should i possibly have a 4th tier to the trilogy that mimics greater bestow curse, except that they can only pick the ability penalty option?

So the 9th level maneuver Strike of Righteous Vitality mimics the 6-7th level spell Heal. 5th level maneuvers like Dragon's Flame seem roughly in line with a 6th level casting of Fireball, a third level spell.

So, in general, you're probably looking at +2-+3 levels above the level of the spell the effect is based on. I'd probably put the effects at level 2 for a -2, level 4 for a -4, and level 6 for a -6. That lines up with the Shadow Hand maneuver that hit Constitution, while this one has the flexibility of hitting Strength or Dexterity (but doesn't reduce future Fortitude saves or reduce hit point maximums, probably bringing it in line with the aforementioned).

Then again, there's a maneuver that deals 4 points of Strength damage at level 3, so maybe 1, 3, and 5 would work.

sage20500
2017-02-16, 02:38 PM
So the 9th level maneuver Strike of Righteous Vitality mimics the 6-7th level spell Heal. 5th level maneuvers like Dragon's Flame seem roughly in line with a 6th level casting of Fireball, a third level spell.

So, in general, you're probably looking at +2-+3 levels above the level of the spell the effect is based on. I'd probably put the effects at level 2 for a -2, level 4 for a -4, and level 6 for a -6. That lines up with the Shadow Hand maneuver that hit Constitution, while this one has the flexibility of hitting Strength or Dexterity (but doesn't reduce future Fortitude saves or reduce hit point maximums, probably bringing it in line with the aforementioned).

Then again, there's a maneuver that deals 4 points of Strength damage at level 3, so maybe 1, 3, and 5 would work.

So my original idea was to have 2 versions of the move, one that only hits dex, while the other hits strength (was going to flavor them as one messing with a targets perception of time *dex* while the other messed with their physical body *str*). Would it be better to have just one series of maneuvers that targeted either strength or dex?

Also if i wanted to have a series of maneuvers like these, but only dealt a con penalty, would you say go level 3, 5, 7 if i follow the previous pattern? Or would a - 2,4,6 penalty to con be a 4, 6, 8th level strike?

Mainly im wondering since its supposed to be a penalty curse, it wont go away naturally like normal ability damage would, so i figure that probably would bump up the expected level by 1 or 2

Djinn_in_Tonic
2017-02-16, 03:00 PM
So my original idea was to have 2 versions of the move, one that only hits dex, while the other hits strength (was going to flavor them as one messing with a targets perception of time *dex* while the other messed with their physical body *str*). Would it be better to have just one series of maneuvers that targeted either strength or dex?

Also if i wanted to have a series of maneuvers like these, but only dealt a con penalty, would you say go level 3, 5, 7 if i follow the previous pattern? Or would a - 2,4,6 penalty to con be a 4, 6, 8th level strike?

-2 Con exists at level 2 (save negates), and -4 Strength (save for -2) exists at level 3, as stated.

By that logic I'd say a minus -2 Strength (save negates) is a level 1 maneuver, and a -2 Dex (save negates) is the same. The flexibility of a -2 Strength OR Dex probably makes it a level 2 maneuver.

From there, I'd go up 2 levels for each extra -2 (save half). So a -4 Strength (save for -2) at level 3, or a -6 at level 5 (save for -3).

There's a catch though -- the current Shadow Hand only has one of these, so the likelihood of repeatedly stacking it on a foe is fairly minimal. Preparing this multiple times, however, would let you drain a foe VERY fast. A -6 followed by a -4 and then a -2 is -12 Strength over three rounds, which is pretty devastating. So I might make it something like a Shadow penalty, and have only the highest apply (so you could give -6 Strength and -6 Dexterity, but not stack the -6 for a -12 to Dexterity, for example).

If it doesn't go away, then probably a level increase is fine, but I'm not sure it's necessary? Would have to test how often that extended duration actually matters in a game.

sage20500
2017-02-16, 03:13 PM
-2 Con exists at level 2 (save negates), and -4 Strength (save for -2) exists at level 3, as stated.

By that logic I'd say a minus -2 Strength (save negates) is a level 1 maneuver, and a -2 Dex (save negates) is the same. The flexibility of a -2 Strength OR Dex probably makes it a level 2 maneuver.

From there, I'd go up 2 levels for each extra -2 (save half). So a -4 Strength (save for -2) at level 3, or a -6 at level 5 (save for -3).

There's a catch though -- the current Shadow Hand only has one of these, so the likelihood of repeatedly stacking it on a foe is fairly minimal. Preparing this multiple times, however, would let you drain a foe VERY fast. A -6 followed by a -4 and then a -2 is -12 Strength over three rounds, which is pretty devastating. So I might make it something like a Shadow penalty, and have only the highest apply (so you could give -6 Strength and -6 Dexterity, but not stack the -6 for a -12 to Dexterity, for example).

If it doesn't go away, then probably a level increase is fine, but I'm not sure it's necessary? Would have to test how often that extended duration actually matters in a game.

Really the debuff being a penalty and not damage and the debuffs being done as a curse was mostly for the flavor of the style. The idea is supposed to be that the initiator is essentially supernatually aging the point on the creature they're hitting, such as the joints or what have you, weakening it compared to the rest of the creatures body, and that all things eventually sucumb to time (which is why its a penalty so that it can be used against the big 5 things that are immune to damage) and so the only way to revert the disortation is to remove the curse.

Either that or im pulling from the myths about the feywilds\feylands and instead of aging them im messing with their perception of time to do the same effect. Its one of those two ideas

Also my group i play with tends to follow the idea of "if we can do it, then so can team monster", and since our main dm likes splashing tome of battle onto his monsters to make them more interesting then it would allow him to have other impactful options against us aside from standard save or dies etc. So for now im trying to make the discipline balanced but fun for both the player and the dm.