Best ranged army-killer in Pathfinder?

[Blasty]

What are some good builds for long range large scale combat? We are starting the campaign at level 15, and there's going to be some mass combat.

Summons are fun, but I've been playing the role of a summoner for a while, and would like to take a more direct role in combat by doing more blasting.

Meteor swarm is the first spell that comes to mind for long range AOE blasts. Using Spell Perfection and Arcane Thesis to apply Widen and Enlarge for free, we get a spell with 800 ft + 80 ft/lvl range, dealing 6d6 over 4 80-foot radii spheres, with some other metamagic effects on top. Are there any better ways to deal AOE damage at long ranges? Also, are there any spells like Blizzard with a very large area and a nice effect (1 foot of snow per round for 1 rounds/lvl over a 100 ft radius per level area, at long range).?



Disruptive (in case of spellcasters)
Ectoplasmic (in case of incorporeal armies)
Flaring Spell (Dazzle is good)
Elemental Spell (Goodbye fire resistance)
Lingering Spell (Walk into a meteor swarm? Go ahead)
Selective Spell (Because I care about the rest of the party?)

[Coidzor]

IIRC, you can still use Control Weather to plop down a tornado on top of them.

[unseenmage]

IIRC, you can still use Control Weather to plop down a tornado on top of them.

Control Winds (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/spells/controlWinds.html) will wreck an army as well. As will Control Water (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/spells/controlWater.html) if used correctly.

You could also ask your GM if War Spells from 3.X are available. Check my sig for some 3.X examples, they are cheesey though, even for 3.X.

[Albertus Magus]

An Air kineticist with Air/Water/Fire has Control Weather at will at level 16.

[Blasty]

Control Winds will wreck an army as well. As will Control Water if used correctly.

You could also ask your GM if War Spells from 3.X are available. Check my sig for some 3.X examples, they are cheesey though, even for 3.X.

Yeah, war spells are cheese. I'm not even going to try asking.

There's several different concepts that I might go with: Weather Wizard (or druid),

Are there any other good AOE direct damage spells?

List of long-ranged spells with decent AOEs:

- Sunburst (Druid 8, Sorc/Wiz 8): An 80 foot radius of 6d6 light damage and blindness, with 1d6/CL for Undead, Fungi, Oozes, Molds, and Slimes. Reflex save halves and negates blindness though.
- Control Wind (Druid 5): 40 ft/level radius cylinder area, 10 min/level. You can create an eye of up to 80 feet in diameter, so that you (and your meatshields) aren't affected. Alternatively, use the option to decrease radius and place it somewhere else.
- Control Water (Cleric/Druid 4, Sorc/Wiz 6): 10 ft/level by 10 ft/level area, 2 ft/level height, 10 min/level. Goodbye invasion fleet/enemies on the beaches.
- Control Weather (Cleric/Druid/Sorc/Wiz 7): 2 mile range, 2 mile area (3 for druids), 4d12 hours, 10 min cast, 10 min manifest. Trades control for duration.
- Chain Lightning (Sorc/Wiz 6): 1d6/CL damage, plus 1 secondary/CL. A good way to kill some relatively strong targets. The secondaries have lower reflex save DCs though.
- Cloudkill (Sorc/Wiz 5): Medium range, 20 ft area. Not long range, but it's a classic.
- Delayed Blast Fireball (Sorc/Wiz 7): Long range, 20 ft area. Not the best area, but it'll do a nice 1d6/CL. Chain Lightning and this are similar, and mostly interchangable.
- Earthquake (Cleric/Druid 8): Long range, 80 ft radius. Fun. No direct damage though.
- Fire Storm (Cleric 8/Druid7): Medium range, 2 10ft cubes/CL. Has reflex save.
- Fireball: A classic.
- Flame Strike (Cleric 5/Druid 4): Medium range, 10 ft radius cylinder. 1d6/CL fire damage, but resistance and immunity only apply to half of the damage.
- Glitterdust (Sorc/Wiz 2): Medium range, 10ft radius spread. Sculpt this into a larger sphere, and lob it at invisible enemies. Or just enjoy the blindness.
- Grease (Sorc/Wiz 1): Short range, but
- Horrid Wilting (Sorc/Wiz 8): Long range, effectively a 30 ft radius. 1d6/CL. Great for hordes.
- Ice Storm (Druid/Sorc/Wiz 4): Long range, 20 ft radius cylinder. Blizzard without the permanent control.
- Incendiary Cloud (Sorc/Wiz 8): Medium range, 20 ft radius cylinder. Cloudkill, but with fire damage. Also, duration is only 1 round per level.
- Meteor Swarm (Sorc/Wiz 9): Long range, 4 40 ft radius spreads. The classic high level blasting spell. Bring a Metamagic Rod of Widen Spell.
- Reverse Gravity (Druid 8/Sorc/Wiz 9): Medium Range, 10 ft cube/CL. Always fun.
- Storm of Vengance (Cleric/Druid 9): Long range, 360 ft radius. Doesn't do much damage.

Frostburn spells:
NOTE: Most of these must be cast outside.
- Blizzard (Druid 5) (Frostburn): Because burying people under feet of snow in a 100ft radius/level is definitely not underpowered for a 5th level spell. Druid only though. It also does not disappear when the duration ends.
- Boreal Wind (Druid 4, Bard/Cleric/Sorc/Wiz 5): Long range, 20 ft wide. A nice way to damage people in a wide line. 1d6/CL, up to 15d6.
- Call Avalanche (Druid 5): Long range, 10 ft/level radius spread. A good way to deal long range damage with some utility. Must be cast outside.
- Control Snow and Ice (Cleric 3): Same as Control Water. Synergizes well with Blizzard.
- Fimbulwinter (Druid/Sorc/Wiz 8, Cleric/Winter 9): 1 mile/level range. Control weather, but specialized for winter. Great for ruining an army's day. Doesn't deal direct damage.
- Frostfell (Druid 8, Sorc/Wiz 9): Medium range, 20 ft cube/level. Save or freeze, with some other useful effects.

(WIP. Also, d20.zone)

Within the Pathfinder PRD, Meteor Swarm is the best for blasting armies. Allowing Frostburn, Blizzard drops 1 foot of snow per round on an everything within a 100 ft/level radius.

TLDR Frostburn has all of the goodies.

EDIT: Rip post count.

[Calthropstu]

If mythic is involved, it is hard to top the singular cheese of mythic augmented time stop. Dig out the ground beneath the army, fill it with lava, gg.

On a less cheesy note, a construct maker would do well for an army. Alternatively, if you can manage to get it, becoming a vampire with the whole at will charm thing (See the web comic for the results of that) is a great anti army tactic. Other good possibilities include the kinetecist, a polymorph specialist, and some good old fashioned chain lightning. If you're willing to do psionics, there's a few good choices there, such as the 40 foot blast emanation power (you'll have to be in the thick of things though) and the Astral Construct which you can enlarge, give whirlwind attack and all sorts of other goodies to create a whirlwind of destruction in their midst.

You could also try a druid and go elder air elemental and really wreck their day.

So many combinations, so many abilities. There's a lot of fun to be had against armies.

[Eldariel]

Well, if you really just want area, there's always the aptly named "Apocalypse from the Sky" in Book of Vile Darkness (Corrupt 9). It does lousy damage (10d6, mere fireball, though at least it can be acid/fire/sonic as you please) but the range is 10 miles per level with no cap. So if you ever wanted to nuke a 500 mile radius area, knock yourself out. Of course, it requires the material component of an artifact and has a 1 day casting time. And the corruption costs are rather extreme; 4d6 Wis drain and 3d6 Con damage plus 1d3 Wis damage for preparing it.

[Calthropstu]

book of vile darkness is 3rd, not pathfinder.

[hamishspence]

Well, if you really just want area, there's always the aptly named "Apocalypse from the Sky" in Book of Vile Darkness (Corrupt 9). It does lousy damage (10d6, mere fireball, though at least it can be acid/fire/sonic as you please) but the range is 10 miles per level with no cap. So if you ever wanted to nuke a 500 mile radius area, knock yourself out. Of course, it requires the material component of an artifact and has a 1 day casting time.

I think that was FAQ-ed to "focus" since Corrupt spells specifically get called out as not requiring material components (page 78, BOVD).


book of vile darkness is 3rd, not pathfinder.

So is Frostburn - but if it's a possible source, why not BOVD?

[Eldariel]

I think that was FAQ-ed to "focus" since Corrupt spells specifically get called out as not requiring material components (page 78, BOVD).

Could be, though I think it sorta feels appropriate/makes sense for this to be an exception where you sacrifice an artifact. Though of course, it could afford to do a bit more damage. Like 40d6 at least. If you ever wanted to roleplay Lavos.


book of vile darkness is 3rd, not pathfinder.

And it's 3e material that's perfectly compatible with 3.5e and Pathfinder is backwards compatible with 3.5e.

[Blasty]

I think that was FAQ-ed to "focus" since Corrupt spells specifically get called out as not requiring material components (page 78, BOVD).



So is Frostburn - but if it's a possible source, why not BOVD?

I added frostburn since I saw Blizzard mentioned in another thread, and I got curious.

Are there any spells like Bombardment from the spell compendium for sorcerer or wizard?

Also, are there any other large AOE spells that scale with caster level?

[Jack_Simth]

On a less cheesy note, a construct maker would do well for an army.Polymorph Any Object can make a good substitute. Wall of Stone to build a maximally Medium pillar, Stone Shape to cut it loose from the ground, Polymorph Any Object to turn it into a Stone Golem (or any other mindless stone-based golem, really....). Kingdom (Mineral), Class (Stone) (or Size(Medium)), Int (-) = Permanent. In all meaningful senses of the word, you're it's creator, so per the golem header: it obeys you.

It'll have the HP of the pillar (which, if you make it 5 feet thick by repeated castings of Wall of Stone, will be 900 HP), but there's a small problem: In Pathfinder, there's a hole in the rules: Polymorph Any Object can explicitly turn anything into anything else... but it functions as Greater Polymorph. What actually happens when you go outside what Greater Polymorph can do isn't defined, so it's up to your DM what the stats of the critter will be.

Still, if your DM assigns stats to it, it makes a decent damage sponge.

If you want to laugh it up... cast Symbol of Death on the pillar before Polymorph Any Object. Set the Symbol to trigger when it's broken or the Polymorph ends. Nice 60 foot radius of death for a while when they mow down the minion.

You can make these monsters during down-time, and use them whenever. Makes great fodder for your own army... provided that the targets aren't immune to death effects.

[Blasty]

Polymorph Any Object can make a good substitute. Wall of Stone to build a maximally Medium pillar, Stone Shape to cut it loose from the ground, Polymorph Any Object to turn it into a Stone Golem (or any other mindless stone-based golem, really....). Kingdom (Mineral), Class (Stone) (or Size(Medium)), Int (-) = Permanent. In all meaningful senses of the word, you're it's creator, so per the golem header: it obeys you.

It'll have the HP of the pillar (which, if you make it 5 feet thick by repeated castings of Wall of Stone, will be 900 HP), but there's a small problem: In Pathfinder, there's a hole in the rules: Polymorph Any Object can explicitly turn anything into anything else... but it functions as Greater Polymorph. What actually happens when you go outside what Greater Polymorph can do isn't defined, so it's up to your DM what the stats of the critter will be.

Still, if your DM assigns stats to it, it makes a decent damage sponge.

If you want to laugh it up... cast Symbol of Death on the pillar before Polymorph Any Object. Set the Symbol to trigger when it's broken or the Polymorph ends. Nice 60 foot radius of death for a while when they mow down the minion.

You can make these monsters during down-time, and use them whenever. Makes great fodder for your own army... provided that the targets aren't immune to death effects.

That's hilarious.

And probably banned, because it's beyond the scope of "something that can efficiently destroy armies" and veers into crazy exploit, especially because of the undefined behavior

And if I used it, my DM would promptly use it against us when we return to our usual campaign.

[Jack_Simth]

That's hilarious.

And probably banned, because it's beyond the scope of "something that can efficiently destroy armies" and veers into crazy exploit, especially because of the undefined behavior

And if I used it, my DM would promptly use it against us when we return to our usual campaign.
In 3.5, it had a much better defined result, simply because of the definition of nonabilities and how the Polymorph line worked (HD is a nonability, so provides a +0 to BAB, Fort, Ref, and Will; it granted the strength/dex/con of the target, and also appropriate wis/int/cha scores - so you essentially ended up with a stone golem with saves of +0/-1/+0, no DR or magic immunity, 900 HP, two slams at +8 for 2d10+9, and an AC of 26, with the Construct type... and a vulnerability to Dispel Magic).

Of course, do keep in mind: The Symbol of Death aspect tacks in a clearly-defined CR (it's a spell trap made by an 8th level spell, so CR 9). If you count the polymorph any object spell the same way, it works out to two CR 9 spell traps, making for an encounter level of 11... on a per-unit basis. Ironically, that's the same EL as a Stone Golem encountered in isolation.

Edit: It is, however, probably one of the best ranged army killer methods in the game... if you've got time and money to build them up beforehand (Symbol of Death has an expensive component - or rather, two 5,000 gp components - Blood Money for that would mean 21 strength damage; doable, but tricky).