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View Full Version : Player Help Ways to improve dex-based Setting Sun tripping?



Das_Tabby
2017-02-17, 09:56 AM
So, the title says it, are there any?
I'm asking because I just got my Shadow Sun Ninja back, and I really enjoyed that one time Comet Throw actually worked against someone larger than him

I know the basics, increase your size, reach and usually strength, but are there ways to improve dexterity(-checks), too?
I'm especially looking for Items, and maybe spells if it's possible to get them on a wand (so I can nicely ask our Wizard, Sorcerer or Favored Soul to acticate it for me) or as a potion (I'll probably do that with enlarge person, but is there anything else?)

Here my build so far if you want to see it:


Human (Ex-Necropolitan) Sleeping Tiger Monk 2/Swordsage 4/Shadow Sun Ninja 3

Str 8
Dex 17
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 13

Feats:
Weaponfinesse (ST Monk Bonus)
Improved Initiative (ST Monk Bonus)
Imp. UA Strike (guess what)
Stunning Fist (UA Swordsage bonus per DM ruling)
Weaponfocus UA Strike (Swordsage Bonus)

Adaptive Style (1st)
Shadow Blade (Human Bonus)
Darkstalker (Flaw)
Skill-Focus: Bluff (Flaw | We have a houseroule that you get a skill as class skill if you choose Skill-Focus and it fits his story, that's why XP)
Improved Toughness (3rd)
Twin Dragon Disciple (6th | It's a homebrew feat I found somewhere and my GM allowed using it, basically it stacks SS and Monk levels for UA damage, Flurry of Blows penalty and Initiator lvl)

We just hit 9th lvl and I'm not sure if I should get Improved Natural Attack, Acrobatic Strike (I know, it's usually considered useless, but I got a hard time hitting anything, and as most of my maneuvers and class features are standart actions anyway, it doesn't matter if I move) or Combat Expertise, so Improved Trip could follow at lvl 12, then again I don't want to be focused to much on tripping)

Maneuvers and Stances:
Island of Blades
Child of Shadow

1st:
Counter Charge
Moment of Perfect Mind
Sapphire Nightmare Blade
Distracting Ember
Shadow Blade Technique

2nd:
Shadow Jaunt
Mountain Hammer

3rd:
Shadow Garrote
Mind over Body

4th:
Comet Throw

5th:
Bloodletting Strike


Banned sources: 3.0 material, BoED, BoVD, probably most 3rd party sources (I never asked) EDIT: Oh and most important: every setting specific source except Eberron
Homebrew and Dragon Magazin need GM approval

ShurikVch
2017-02-17, 01:13 PM
Possible class dips (if you OK with it):
Exoticist (Fighter variant in Dragon #310) - Exotic Attack: +2 (if trip is with exotic weapon)
Exotic Weapon Master PrC (Complete Warrior) - Trip Attack: +2 (if trip is with exotic weapon)
Sanctified One of Kord PrC (Complete Champion) - Master (affiliation score 21-29) give +2 on trip

Feats:
Cobalt Expertise (Magic of Incarnum) - +(invested essence)
Initiate of Kord (Dragon #342) - +4 //required divine spellcasting
Pebble Underfoot (Dragon Compendium) - +4 (if enemy is larger than you)
Tactical Advantage (Dragon #335) - +(favored enemy bonus) //required Favored Enemy

Templates:
Stoneboned Creature (Dragon #350) - Powerful Build make you count as one category larger //LA +2; also, unfortunately, -4 Dex

Fighting styles (it's not feats, you get benefits automatically when fulfill prerequisites):
Broken Fist Mastery I (Dragon #309) - you tripping as if you was one size category larger //Prerequisites: Str 13, Dirty Fighting, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike.

Due to EDIT, feats Hyena Tribe Hunter (Shining South) and Kahiko/Kahiko Master (Dragon #352) weren't mentioned

QuickLyRaiNbow
2017-02-17, 01:27 PM
The feat you might want is Confound the Big Folk, from Races of Stone, I think.

It's a tactical feat that allows you to move into an enemy's square and trip them with a melee touch attack and an opposed Dexterity roll. Not a trip check! Size categories specifically don't come into play.

It's not Setting Sun-based, and it's not compatible with maneuvers. But it is the best Dex tripping option available, and by far the most reliable way to use tripping against enemies that are multiple size categories larger than you.

Das_Tabby
2017-02-17, 01:49 PM
Thank you so far for your suggestions =)
but unfortionally i think there's nothing yet I can use :/
Most of the times I simply don't meet the prerequisites (to low stats, missing feats, wrong race etc), although I really like some of the options (Confound the big folk, pebble underfoot, Fighting styles)

Others just don't fit my Character ^^"
I don't want to multiclass any further, although I thought about a 2 lvl dip into psychic warrior for expansion and maybe inertial armor... and to gain combat expertise and improved trip as feats
but that would be the 4th 3/4bab class i'd enter and i'm not sure if that's such a good idea... (although it would boost my fort save)

ShurikVch
2017-02-17, 02:56 PM
Step of the Wind stance give +4 to trip, if enemy is on difficult terrain and takes a movement penalties because of it

How about a dip in Tattooed Monk? Bellflower tattoo allow to add Charisma mod. to other abilities, and your character have OK Cha

Also, note (just in case): "Evolved" feat can remove -4 Ddx penalty from Stoneboned

Das_Tabby
2017-02-17, 03:18 PM
Step of the Wind would be awesome... if my DM used difficult terrain more often. Actually I think he never did until now and i've been playing almost a year with him :smallannoyed:

a +1 is not worth taking 2 feats that contribute nearly nothing to the character, so tattooed monk is out :/ (a lvl 1 dip in marshal would be better for the minor dexterity aura... xD but that again doesn't fit the character)
(although it would be nice to get some use for that cha... originally he got that for lifesense... but fortunally for him and unfortunally for me he didn't stay undead for long)

I really don't like the template :/ i got no explanation why he should suddenly mutate like that, and LA-Buyoff is not in play

But again, thanks^^

QuickLyRaiNbow
2017-02-17, 03:31 PM
It's just an unfortunate situation that size is so incredibly important to tripping.

Factotum 3 might allow you to add your intelligence bonus.

Maybe there's a way to shoehorn moment of prescience into your build but I can't think what it is.

Das_Tabby
2017-02-17, 03:42 PM
yeah I know :smallfrown: And I doubt that I'll get anywhere near 8th lvl spells
the good news is that I'm allowed to trip something even 2 and more size categories larger than me, as long as i'm using one of the throw maneuvers, but to do so I need some bonuses myself or I don't even have to try to roll

Maybe I should just get some Potions of Good Hope and Improvisation with at least CL 6 or something like that...
Are there no items granting a +2 Bonus to dexterity-checks or something like that (something like armbands of might but for dexterity)? I know theres a ton of +x initiative items...

I mean I don't want a dedicated tripper, I just want to do it every now and then without failing everytime I initialize a Comet or Balista Throw

J-H
2017-02-17, 10:55 PM
The Luckstone/Stone of Good Luck will get you a +1 on those checks for 20,000gp.

ShurikVch
2017-02-18, 05:57 AM
Are there no items granting a +2 Bonus to dexterity-checks or something like that (something like armbands of might but for dexterity)?Wheel of Fortune (Complete Scoundrel): when the result is "Yellow", you get +2 luck bonus on Dex checks and Dex-based skill checks; bonus lasts for 24 hours, and you may use the Wheel until the time runs out; 6000 gp; average chance of "Yellow" is 12,5% (1 of 8)

Try to ask your DM about getting Prodigy (Dexterity) template from Dungeon Master's Guide II: for LA +2 you will get +2 Dex and +4 on Dex checks and Dex-based skill checks (thus total +5 - as if you get +10 Dex)