The Great Wall (Non Spoiler)

[ArlEammon]

White Archer Robin Hood enters China to save the day. Is this is a White Savior Film or is it just dumb fun? What's it like?

[Nerd-o-rama]

I consider this movie's existence a personal failure on my part for not expressing my hatred for The Last Samurai more firmly.

[Traab]

I thought it was just whitewashing, like white boy isnt tom cruise playing great white savior, he is a white actor pretending to be a chinese character.

[Dienekes]

I consider this movie's existence a personal failure on my part for not expressing my hatred for The Last Samurai more firmly.

Huh, really? I liked Last Samurai. Not historically accurate at all but it managed to avoid the white savior shtick by having the white guy do absolutely nothing of importance and instead act as an audience surrogate to learn about the actual last samurai, the Saigo Takamori expy, that guy played by Watanabe. Of course the movie suffered by making the samurai seem way neater than they actually were, but that's pretty standard for historical fiction. Everyone seems nicer except the villains who seem worse.

Anyway, this movie intrigues me. A movie that looks like racist schlock, starring a talented actor, directed by a talented Chinese director, with a screenplay done by that weird zombie guy. I know it's going to be a train wreck, but I am intrigued enough to see it if the reviews say it's an entertaining train wreck.

[Vinyadan]

I haven't seen this movie yet, but I think I can say what my expectations are, because of other stuff coming from Chinese cinema (Chinema?).

Thing number 1 is that it likely has nothing to do with Last Samurai. Japan is a wholly different world, compared to China.

Thing number 2 is that I doubt it can be a white saviour whatever. Flowers of War had a westerner starring with the purpose of displaying how useless the westerner is, while the Chinese soldiers were brave, chivalric, courageous, and the westerner only becomes a good, but ultimately insufficient, man because of the presence of Chinese. (A secondary objective was of course that of attracting attention in China and abroad).

Generally speaking, you shouldn't forget that The Great Wall was paid for by a Chinese state-owned producer, and this means that the movie will center around Chinese virtue and how much better the Chinese cultural and moral sphere is, compared to the rest of the world. The only question is, how much are they ready to tone it down for the benefit of a Western audience?

[Closet_Skeleton]

Can't really say much about this because of all the politics. This movie is China and the West as the Chinese government wants you to see them.


I consider this movie's existence a personal failure on my part for not expressing my hatred for The Last Samurai more firmly.

Japan loved the Last Samurai, so its not your fault.


I thought it was just whitewashing, like white boy isnt tom cruise playing great white savior, he is a white actor pretending to be a chinese character.

Not at all from the review I glanced at, he's one of two western characters and its an original story that needs western characters to be around.

[Rodin]

Critics haven't been kind thus far - from glancing through RT the consensus seems to be "big, dumb, special-effects spectacular with forgettable plot that is designed to appeal to lowest common denominator". So not the worst film in the world, but nothing to get excited about.

Think I'll pass, myself.

[ArlEammon]

Critics haven't been kind thus far - from glancing through RT the consensus seems to be "big, dumb, special-effects spectacular with forgettable plot that is designed to appeal to lowest common denominator". So not the worst film in the world, but nothing to get excited about.

Think I'll pass, myself.

If you believe cinema snob, it's a big dumb fun flick. Nothing wrong with that.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If you believe cinema snob, it's a big dumb fun flick. Nothing wrong with that.

If you believe Jeremy Jahns, it is a big dumb flick for the first act (including the big setpiece battle from the trailers), then grinds down to a slow slog of poor characterisation for the second act, before rushing through a third act that is choppy as all hell, probably due to edits to bring down the run time.

GW

[Nerd-o-rama]

Huh, really? I liked Last Samurai. Not historically accurate at all but it managed to avoid the white savior shtick by having the white guy do absolutely nothing of importance and instead act as an audience surrogate to learn about the actual last samurai, the Saigo Takamori expy, that guy played by Watanabe.

I will admit that this is a legitimate framing device and could have worked with any actor who wasn't Tom Cruise. Man just takes himself way too seriously for the role of fish-out-of-water observer.


Japan loved the Last Samurai, so its not your fault.

Oh, I'm not speaking on behalf of Japan here. As a culture their homegrown fiction is not known for prizing historical accuracy over achieving the desired tone and stylization and my personal distaste for Tom Cruise is probably a subtlety lost on people who are less familiar with Hollywood acting than I am.

Still, I'm glad to hear that this movie appears to, like TLS, be simply really bad instead of outright racially offensive. It does seem to share the commonality of "useless white guy designed to give the film the broadest possible appeal", anyway.

[Kitten Champion]

The big put-off for me is that they made the monsters non-humanoids, which deprives The Great Wall of the sort of choreography that I'd be hoping to see in such a movie. I can forgive an inadequate narrative, weak characterizations, and even wasting Matt Damon as the perfunctory White A-List Hollywood Actor Guy to validate Chinese film-goers particular biases if that artistry is there.

Besides, I just saw Keanu Reeves iteration of 47 Ronin about a week ago and that's kind of set the tone for this month.

Edit: Of course it's Ronin, blah.

[Blackhawk748]

Besides, I just saw Keanu Reeves iteration of 47 Samurai about a week ago and that's kind of set the tone for this month.

47 Ronin was great. Im with you on the choreography bit. Theres only so much fun stuff you can do fighting a giant lizard. Ill probably wait for it to go to Redbox and then have a good laugh watching it for a buck.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Rodin
Think I'll pass, myself.

The first ten seconds of the trailer convinced me to skip it.


Originally Posted by Dienekes
I liked Last Samurai.

I enjoyed this movie for what it was, although it was essentially Dances with Samurai. Not much of a Cruise fan myself, but I agree he did what was necessary for the story.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Oh, I'm not speaking on behalf of Japan here. As a culture their homegrown fiction is not known for prizing historical accuracy over achieving the desired tone and stylization and my personal distaste for Tom Cruise is probably a subtlety lost on people who are less familiar with Hollywood acting than I am.


The inaccurate part of Tom Cruise's character was that he was American rather than German or French (the rest of the film was also terribly inaccurate but Europeans being around is kind of integral to the historical time period).

While the Great Wall is apparently a fantasy film about Europeans getting Gunpowder, so The Great Wall shouldn't exist yet and the Mongols should be doing everything instead.

[Eldan]

Generally speaking, you shouldn't forget that The Great Wall was paid for by a Chinese state-owned producer, and this means that the movie will center around Chinese virtue and how much better the Chinese cultural and moral sphere is, compared to the rest of the world. The only question is, how much are they ready to tone it down for the benefit of a Western audience?

One reviewer I saw called it basically Anti-White Saviour. Not sure how accurate it is, but apparently, Damon is basically only there to admire the Chinese characters and their superiour sophistication, culture and morals.

[Nourjan]

One reviewer I saw called it basically Anti-White Saviour. Not sure how accurate it is, but apparently, Damon is basically only there to admire the Chinese characters and their superiour sophistication, culture and morals.

Chris Stuckman basically kinda said the same thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDGpFkP2-Ks

[Nerd-o-rama]

One reviewer I saw called it basically Anti-White Saviour. Not sure how accurate it is, but apparently, Damon is basically only there to admire the Chinese characters and their superiour sophistication, culture and morals.

Yeah in all honesty that's kinda how TLS went too, it was just a very Hollywood presentation of what was supposedly great about pre-Meiji Japan (katanas, mostly).

[Aedilred]

I will admit that this is a legitimate framing device and could have worked with any actor who wasn't Tom Cruise. Man just takes himself way too seriously for the role of fish-out-of-water observer.

Have you seen Tropic Thunder?...

[Vinyadan]

Have you seen Tropic Thunder?...

"For years now, onscreen and off, [Tom] Cruise has seemed like a bottle of barely contained crazy; now we know what happens when the cork comes out." Christopher Orr, for The New Republic.