The Best Wisdom Gish (multiclass)

[Specter]

When we think of 'gish', we think of many things: Bladesinger, EK, Palabard, Bladelock...

But what if we attempted to create a Wisdom Gish, someone who could wield attacks and magic together tapping into the divine? (Yes, I know the term originally refered to arcane spellcasters, but it's been broadened up).

So, if you had to combine Monk/Ranger with Cleric/Druid, how would you do it? Not necessarily for optimal damage.

[DivisibleByZero]

So, if you had to combine Monk/Ranger with Cleric/Druid, how would you do it? Not necessarily for optimal damage.

Depends on what you were going for.
Sun Soul Monk / Land Druid
Shadow monk / Trickery Cleric
Open Hand Monk / Moon Druid
All very thematic, perfectly viable, and distinctly different.
Or any other Monk with any Cleric or Druid.
Or you could basically mix Hunter Ranger with any Cleric or Druid to the same effect.
Same goes for Fighter or Barbarian (or in a lesser sense, Rogue) instead of Ranger.

It depends on what you're going for. There are a LOT of different concepts here.

[Sir cryosin]

Any cleric will do with out muliti-classing.

[JaggedSun]

Paladin, but instead of healing and (good) divine powers, mix him with sorcerer spells.

[Simian]

Monk is kind of rough because there's no casting synergy really.

If you go 5 levels to get extra attack and 5 flurry of blows / sr you are already down to 8th tier spells max. And you are either choosing to melee or cast each round.

I would say ranger, or eldritch knight are going to be better for a gish, they both suffer from 1 of the monk's limitations but not both. The ranger is going to have the best spell casting progression but no real synergy of abilities. The EK is going to have the best ability synergy but reduced spell casting progression (still better than the monk).

Obviously if you go Eldritch Knight it's going to be a hybrid arcane divine caster. You can choose only non-saving throw arcane spells, like buffs and utility. This fits in with eldritch knights abjurist focus, less so with the evoker. The eldritch knight's war magic and eldritch strike can both be used with cleric or druid spells. If you do go all the way to 10 or 11 EK you are going to be down to 7th tier spell slots like the monk, but you get much more synergy with your spellcasting and combat. Because the EK is a fighter you don't need to have 13 int to multiclass. You can multiclass with either 13 dex or 13 str your choice. You could even make int a dump stat if you are truly taking no spells with saving throws.

The ranger gets much better spell progression but is lacking in ways to cast and attack in the same round. You can go 7 levels of ranger and still get to 9th tier spell slots eventually. The revised ranger beastmaster might be a good choice here so you can get some melee ability while also casting in the same round. It's not going to be an EK but you will also be dropping 9th level spellslots here and there unlike either the EK or Monk. Also, you don't need to go to 7th level, that just gives your beast advantage on saves, if you go to 5th level you will get 8th tier spells and still get a beast companion and coordinated attack. If you plan on doing more magic, or using melee cantrips like green flame blade you can go 3 levels of ranger and still unlock 9th tier spells.

[Drackolus]

My gut says Sun Soul monk and Light Cleric. Not entirely sure how I would go about it, but it's pretty darned thematic, I think. I'd probably go vuman or wood elf.

[Simian]

If your DM allows the optional flanking rule go 5 revised ranger beastmaster 15 druid circle of moon and flank with your beast companion. If he doesn't pick a companion with pack tactics.

For fun you could turn into the same type of beast as your companion and let the enemies try and guess which is the druid and which is the pet. For most of the early levels you can do that without any appreciable loss to your dpr.

[Gignere]

Bearbarian - 5 barbarian / 15 moon druid

[Drackolus]

If your DM allows the optional flanking rule go 5 revised ranger beastmaster 15 druid circle of moon and flank with your beast companion. If he doesn't pick a companion with pack tactics.

For fun you could turn into the same type of beast as your companion and let the enemies try and guess which is the druid and which is the pet. For most of the early levels you can do that without any appreciable loss to your dpr.

Bonus points: polymorph your companion, then wildshape to that creature. They lose their game statistics, though. All they get from the ua ranger is the bonus health and stats anyway.
Edit: it does only work well with the ua ranger, since they need to have the extra hd to be able to be turned into a t-rex or something.

[retaliation08]

My gut says Sun Soul monk and Light Cleric. Not entirely sure how I would go about it, but it's pretty darned thematic, I think. I'd probably go vuman or wood elf.

Not applicable to the thread overall, but I have been toying with a Sun Soul Monk and Undying Light Warlock. So far it looks to be a blast!

[Draco4472]

I found Ranger/Cleric to be an awesome build, specifically hunter and war domain, giving you quite a few melee combat options if out of spell-slots. Hunter's mark plus Colossus slayer and war domain's extra damage keep you on par with other martials, plus the healing and buff spells clerics get, not to mention things like spiritual weapon and spirit guardians give you a lot of versatility, despite being a slightly behind on your spell-progression due to ranger levels.

[Sicarius Victis]

I'd say Cleric can do a lot on its own. Arcana Cleric can get BB/GFB, and can add their WIS bonus to damage on them. Nature Cleric can get heavy armour proficiency and Shillelagh, making them some of the SADdest melee-ers in the game. UA Forge Cleric gets Searing Smite, Magic Weapon, and Elemental Weapon to add to melee attacks, as well as getting up to an at-will AC of 22, just at level 6. In addition, almost all Cleric combat spells boost their capabilities - as well as their allies'.

[King539]

I'd say Cleric can do a lot on its own. Arcana Cleric can get BB/GFB, and can add their WIS bonus to damage on them. Nature Cleric can get heavy armour proficiency and Shillelagh, making them some of the SADdest melee-ers in the game. UA Forge Cleric gets Searing Smite, Magic Weapon, and Elemental Weapon to add to melee attacks, as well as getting up to an at-will AC of 22, just at level 6. In addition, almost all Cleric combat spells boost their capabilities - as well as their allies'.

Not only that, but Arcana clerics can use Magic Initiate: Druid and pick up Shillelagh

[Citan]

When we think of 'gish', we think of many things: Bladesinger, EK, Palabard, Bladelock...

But what if we attempted to create a Wisdom Gish, someone who could wield attacks and magic together tapping into the divine? (Yes, I know the term originally refered to arcane spellcasters, but it's been broadened up).

So, if you had to combine Monk/Ranger with Cleric/Druid, how would you do it? Not necessarily for optimal damage.
Hi!

Well there are so many combinations that work...

The most classic imo is to take a dip or both Cleric and Druid on a Monk to provide decent spellcasting per day (vast utility and decent slots) while keeping all the high level power of Monk. Such as at least 1 level in Cleric, 1 level in Druid, then add one level or two in either (or both) depending on how versatile I want my Monk to be (but always being Monk >11 whatever happens, usually 14-15). Basically the same on a Ranger chassis.

Beyond that, I really don't think there is a "best", it all depends on your character concept.

A good all-around though could be any of those ones...

Artemis
Hunter Ranger 11 / Nature Cleric 6 / Druid 3: huntress that command her pack to ambushes stealthily.
Or variant on beast, Beastmater 15 / Trickster Cleric 5: use buffs such as Shield of Faith or Blur paired with Mirror Image (Trickster), which also benefit your beast, to greatly improve its survivability.

The Commander
(any) Cleric 5+, Land Druid 5+, Open Hand or Long Death Monk 5+: idea here is to use Monk mainly for defense, resilience and mobility, along with special "control abilities", to totally immobilize people by combining Plant Growth + Spirit Guardians + Fear/Shove/OpenHand/ThornWhips/Command.

The Brawler
Horde Breaker Ranger 3-4 / Life Cleric 1+ / Long Death Monk 11+
Grab Hunter's Mark and Goodberry from Ranger, get at least one level of Cleric for buff/healings, grab more if needed, and throw yourself into melee, using Long Death abilities for resilience.

The Assassin
Trickster Cleric 3 / Grassland Druid 3 / Open Hand Monk: instead of going Shadow Monk and using Ki, you use ritual spells (Silence) and slots (Invisibility): lesser efficient as far as pure stealth go, but far more versatile overall.

The Elementalist
Tempest Cleric (although Light could have been good too) 2 / Mountain Druid 7 / Elements Monk 11
Cleric covers buff, healing, and provides Channel Divinity, paired with Mountain's Lighting Bolt for powerful damage in a round.
More generally, you cover all main "Elements": Druid provides Light (Guiding Bolt), Monk covers Fire (Burning Hands then Fireball), Druid also covers Ice (Ice Knife, Ice Storm), Air (Call Lightning, Thunderwave, etc) and Earth (Earth Tremor, Erupting Earth). You even get Absorb Elements and Elemental Bane which can pair nicely with your abilities.

[Specter]

Any cleric will do with out muliti-classing.

Yeah, but that's not really the point.


Paladin, but instead of healing and (good) divine powers, mix him with sorcerer spells.

Not the point either. It's Wisdom, not Divine.

Otherwise, solid answers all around. I figure that for the best damage, you would need 5 ranger levels along with the rest in Cleric or Druid so you can upcast Hail of Thorns more often. Anything that could be better than that damage-wise?

[Vaz]

Yeah, but that's not really the point.

Arcana Cleric with MI Druid and gets to add wis to attack and twice to damage when using the melee weapon attacks cantrips.

Taking 2 levels of monk for Wis to AC, 10ft of move, and Ki points to Bonus Action Disengage with Booming Blade, plus downtime healing economy with Goodberry.

[Asmotherion]

When we think of 'gish', we think of many things: Bladesinger, EK, Palabard, Bladelock...

But what if we attempted to create a Wisdom Gish, someone who could wield attacks and magic together tapping into the divine? (Yes, I know the term originally refered to arcane spellcasters, but it's been broadened up).

So, if you had to combine Monk/Ranger with Cleric/Druid, how would you do it? Not necessarily for optimal damage.

So, basically, a Paladin with no actual Paladin Levels?

[MrStabby]

There are a few I have run, not all for many levels though.

By wisdom based, I am assuming that Wisdom is a high stat rather than a needed multiclass stat for every component.

I am playing a revised ranger 5, knowledge cleric 1, rogue 1 at the moment. Loads of skill abilities, pretty respectable damage, support utility and combat spells.

I have played a coast druid 3 fighter x. Wisdom can be a melee combat stat for a druid and the coast spells + other druid goodies can make the druid pretty damn difficult to shift in the frontline of combat. Meanwhile the extra ASIs on the fighter let you gain a lot more combat skills as well.

I played a monk with a 1 level dip of light cleric. Kind of useful when you get to those levels where you stop getting really powerful monk abilities on a regular basis (8).



I think there is a role for sorcerer - Cha at 13 but wisdom still high. Metamagic is so powerful that it is hard to dismiss on any casting class. Cleric X sorcerer 3 with booming blade and mobile would be able to lay down a lot of pain and have a lot of powerful concentration spells to draw on.

Now more an aspiration than something that is very powerful - I want to play a ranger sorcerer focused on spamming ensnaring strike. Well focused is the wrong word, but with an emphasis. I want to be able to get a LOAD of level 1 spell slots to use and it looks better than warlock in the long run.

[Citan]

Yeah, but that's not really the point.



Not the point either. It's Wisdom, not Divine.

Otherwise, solid answers all around. I figure that for the best damage, you would need 5 ranger levels along with the rest in Cleric or Druid so you can upcast Hail of Thorns more often. Anything that could be better than that damage-wise?

No time for maths, but I think I have better at least for ratio sustainability/damage per round.

Arcane Cleric 8+ with GreenFlameBlade or Lightning Lure.
Combined with Druid.

Cast Elemental Bane. Hit with your cantrip: you deal extra WIS+2d6 damage plus voiding resistance.

Beyond that, I come back on my triclass trick Plant Growth + Spirit Guardians + control action... Although it's very resource consuming, you won't find any better whatever your allies are. ;)

[djreynolds]

Hi!

Well there are so many combinations that work...

The most classic imo is to take a dip or both Cleric and Druid on a Monk to provide decent spellcasting per day (vast utility and decent slots) while keeping all the high level power of Monk. Such as at least 1 level in Cleric, 1 level in Druid, then add one level or two in either (or both) depending on how versatile I want my Monk to be (but always being Monk >11 whatever happens, usually 14-15). Basically the same on a Ranger chassis.

Beyond that, I really don't think there is a "best", it all depends on your character concept.

A good all-around though could be any of those ones...

Artemis
Hunter Ranger 11 / Nature Cleric 6 / Druid 3: huntress that command her pack to ambushes stealthily.
Or variant on beast, Beastmater 15 / Trickster Cleric 5: use buffs such as Shield of Faith or Blur paired with Mirror Image (Trickster), which also benefit your beast, to greatly improve its survivability.

The Commander
(any) Cleric 5+, Land Druid 5+, Open Hand or Long Death Monk 5+: idea here is to use Monk mainly for defense, resilience and mobility, along with special "control abilities", to totally immobilize people by combining Plant Growth + Spirit Guardians + Fear/Shove/OpenHand/ThornWhips/Command.

The Brawler
Horde Breaker Ranger 3-4 / Life Cleric 1+ / Long Death Monk 11+
Grab Hunter's Mark and Goodberry from Ranger, get at least one level of Cleric for buff/healings, grab more if needed, and throw yourself into melee, using Long Death abilities for resilience.

The Assassin
Trickster Cleric 3 / Grassland Druid 3 / Open Hand Monk: instead of going Shadow Monk and using Ki, you use ritual spells (Silence) and slots (Invisibility): lesser efficient as far as pure stealth go, but far more versatile overall.

The Elementalist
Tempest Cleric (although Light could have been good too) 2 / Mountain Druid 7 / Elements Monk 11
Cleric covers buff, healing, and provides Channel Divinity, paired with Mountain's Lighting Bolt for powerful damage in a round.
More generally, you cover all main "Elements": Druid provides Light (Guiding Bolt), Monk covers Fire (Burning Hands then Fireball), Druid also covers Ice (Ice Knife, Ice Storm), Air (Call Lightning, Thunderwave, etc) and Earth (Earth Tremor, Erupting Earth). You even get Absorb Elements and Elemental Bane which can pair nicely with your abilities.

These are fantastic.

Artemis cool

Brawler is sweet

The assassin, like a cheetah

I like ranger/monk combos... might as well right

It sucks you cannot combine volley/whirlwind and divine strike since it is technically an attack

[Citan]

These are fantastic.

Artemis cool

Brawler is sweet

The assassin, like a cheetah

I like ranger/monk combos... might as well right

It sucks you cannot combine volley/whirlwind and divine strike since it is technically an attack
Thank you. ;)
I dream of taking the time somewhen to put some interesting character concepts (mechanics AND fluff) to share them, but I have "so not much" time... ^^

Did not share ranger+monk combos since it was not the topic, but I agree with you these can be very nasty too. ;)

I don't understand your grief about Divine Strike and Volley, since you can apply the damage, but on a single attack. So I guess you meant you regret not being able to apply the damage to all attacks right?

That is why for an Elementalist Hunter, before making my homebrew (and before Warlock UA), I suggested the totally MAD Hunter 11 / Devotion Paladin 9: stack Elemental Weapon and Sacred Weapon (in that order!) on your bow and you are set to actually rain fire on enemies! XD

[Quoxis]

So, basically, a Paladin with no actual Paladin Levels?

So, basically, a guy who doesn't have to be bound to an oath and the stupid rules the phb gives.
I personally don't want to build a paladin, because i picture roleplaying them as incredibly restrictive. Why are there like 50 deities with different ethics and lax rules, but three (or, with scag, four) different oathes you can take and have to live by when playing a pally?

[Quoxis]

Not strictly a "wisdom only" gish here, but i like the idea of an arcana cleric eldritch knight. You can dump Intelligence (if you can roleplay it, at least), grab cantrips and spells from EK that don't rely its stats (tons of utility cantrips available, for 1st level spells i'd look at shield, find familiar and protection from evil and good or alarm) and attack with Wisdom cantrips and spells you get from cleric - grab the scag cantrips from the wizard spell list with the arcana cleric feature, their damage is even increased by your wisdom mod as soon as you reach level 8.

You now have basically and eldritch knight with less attacks than normal (make sure to go at least 5 levels of fighter for extra attack, and when you're there you can take another level to get an ASI and another spellcaster level), but with access to cleric spells such as bless, shield of faith, at higher levels even spirit guardians etc.

[djreynolds]

I like the grassland druid idea, tripping up enemies and the just disappear.

Reminds of "Lost World" where the raptors (dinosaurs) where in the tall grass.

Maybe a beastmaster ranger, like 11th level with 3 open hand monk, 3 land druid, could be neat

[Garresh]

Arcane Cleric is a good starting point. Just grab Shilleleigh through magic initiate. You booming blade for 2d8+8 by level 8, then spiritual weapon for additional 1d8+4. Doing 25.5 damage with a shield, as a full caster, is a pretty good way to go. You'll have decent ranged damage as well if you grab fire bolt, for 2d10+4 or 15 damage, which also can be paired with spiritual weapon. All in all, a nice flexible strat.

[Arkhios]

I think the best synergy is achieved with ranger + cleric or druid. Extra Attack and the highest possible amount of spells and spell slots if you want both.

Ranger 5+Cleric/Druid 15 would get 9th level spell slots and as high as 8th level spells.

[Socratov]

I think that Druid gives some great buffs and options to do stuff with Wis. I also think that barbarian makes for a great combination to that as some druid buffs aren't concentration and thus cast once/use for as long as you like buffs. I also think that Moon druid makes for a great Barbarian multiclass.

Ladies and Gentleponies, I present you Ursax

So, to start with Moon Druid 2

You get your cantrip Shillelagh and a quarterstaff for the regular stuff to work with. Though once the going gets tough you add insta-bear.

Then after druid 2 you segue into Barbarian 2 and gain all the barbarian goodies. Once you get those, you can become an angry person with shillelagh (angrily and wisely whacking people into various new and interesting shapes and colours), an angry bear and once you find out that being an angry bear is fun, you can become angry other animals.

Then you progress into more druid. All the way up to Druid 10 (at lvl 12) at which point you get elemental wildshape for reasons I don't have to tell you about. Then you take more barbarian to become the epitome of durability (free hitpoints at resistance) and get to torment your DM with the question what happens when you apply Extra attack to animal/elemental shapes.

furthermore, when you calm down you can solve problems through utility casting and if you choose to not go hulk you can always grab flame blade to attack with or somesuch... you really have a plethora of options to pick from to wreck the enemy...

[Spiritchaser]

If UA is considered I'd say forge cleric/kensai

Though I admit leveling order is tough to figure.

[Specter]

Got ahold of a very thematic one to try out: Hunter 5/Shepherd Druid 15.

Basically, the shepherd's hawk spirit lets you create an area where all your ranged attacks have advantage as a bonus action. That's huge for anyone going for Sharpshooter.

Then there's the boosted spell slots (to upcast Hail of Thorns and Ensnaring Strike). The fact that Hail of Thorns can be upcast to give up to 6d10 damage means there was some thought to multiclassing put on it. Hail of Thorns is for group damage, Ensnaring Strike is to control the battlefield (Strenght save makes this spell huge against most casters, even an Archmage can be easily screwed by it). If enemies pass the save, they still eat the damage, like it or not.

Shepherd gets Improved Conjure Animals afterwards; beasts get more HP and have magical attacks; all the more goodies for a Sharpshooter who wants distance between him and his enemies.

After that, auto Death Ward (nice) AND if you go far, Faithful Summons. Basucally, if an enemy drops you, he's gonna have to deal with 9th-level conjured animals. So so sweet.

Haven't ran numbers yet, but this looks as nice as they come.