Suggestions on ASI / feats for tempest cleric

[Waazraath]

Hi all,

Curious how you would distribute ASI's and / or feats for a build I'm using in an upcoming campaign.

the party
- 3 members
- 1 GOO warlocks (chain, blaster), 1 bugbear barbarian (frenzy), 1 elf tempest cleric
- all darkvision, all stealth

The campaign
- mostly underdark
- lvl 2-15

the build
- Ability scores (rolled rather high): str 12, dex 18, con 16, int 12, wis 16, cha 14 (after racial modifiers)
- uses rapier and shield, and booming blade cantrip (warlock can use repelling blast to take somebody hit with BB out of melee range, forcing him to take te damage when going back to melee)
- AC 18

assumptions
- we can skip some encounters using stealth (and an invisibible familiar scout)
- if combat starts, I'll expect to be in melee quite often (having only 3 characters in the party)
- because of that, concentration spells are a bit risky; shield of faith can be worth it (for 20 AC), bless is good but with only 3 members in the party... meh.
- assume to use spellslots early game on healing word (if somebody goes down) and maximized (with channel divinity) thunder wave and shatter, maybe spiritual weapon.
- action economy: bonus actions for spells / spiritual weapon attacks, reactions for 'wrath of the storm' ability.

ASI/feats: ???
I don't know about this. There is something to say for both dex (ac, to hit, damage, dex save, stealth), and wis (spiritual weapon, wis save, perception/religion/insight, save DC spells). And feats make it much more difficult: a dex melee build doesn't have a MUST have, but there are plenty of nice ones: alert, defensive duelist, lucky, mobile (very nice with booming blade), resilient (though it sucks the +1 ability score is wasted - constitution might be worth it though), shield master (shoving won't work often, but stronger dex save and a sort of evasion is nice), war caster (only useful for advantage on concentration).....

What would the nice folks here advise me?

[Spellbreaker26]

Elemental Adept? It allows you to get either your Lightning or your thunder past resistances.

[Bugado25]

Take War Caster. It improves your always important concentration saves for Bless or Spirit Guardians and allow you to use Booming Blade as a oportunity attack.

[sepercrod]

I would say keep Dex at 18 to the finish line. That's plenty of +hit and damage with your rapier.

On the subject of Bless, it should cover the entire party, and the Barbarian would probably appreciate the 1d4 to hit if he / she takes GWM. Nice to have, although Thunderwave is really powerful at low levels under the right circumstances when you're pondering level 1 spell usage. My last session, our Barbarian threw me into the midst of a group of 6 or so enemies to 1 shot them with Thunderwave. Pretty satisfying for any class at level 2.

At level 4 ASI - I would recommend either +2 Wis or War Caster. To me, playing the campaign for a few levels and seeing how often concentration breaks is enough to determine putting off War Caster if you're on the fence until level 8. I would prioritize War Caster or another +2 in Wis for the next ASI or two over the alternatives since you're expecting to be in melee frequently. If a feat really jumps out at you, at least you would be in a good place with 18 in your 2 main stats.

[Waazraath]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't mention Elemental adept because I assume (but correct me if I'm wrong) that few creatures have thunder resistance.

As for concentration / warcaster: is it possible to skip most concentration spells, by focussing on non-concentration spells like spiritual weapon and instantaneous effects like shatter, thunder wave, bansihment, healing word, etc.? Or are bless and spirit guardians so good that they are must haves? As an example: a 3rd level shatter with channel divinity is a 32 damage area effect, isn't that as useful a 3rd level slot as spirit guardians?

[Foxhound438]

As an example: a 3rd level shatter with channel divinity is a 32 damage area effect, isn't that as useful a 3rd level slot as spirit guardians?

Eh, sometimes, but then you also have call lightning, which you can cast and maximize the first 2 blasts at level 6, getting 60 damage in 2 rounds off of that same slot. That's a concentration spell worth having, and even if you lose it in the first round you can never say it was a bad gamble.

On the spirit guardians side of things, having the larger area that's safe for allies is going to be beneficial on its own, and you can cast shatter with it up all the same. More resource spending that way, but the point being you do in fact want a good con save boost to keep concentration.



Aside from resilient con or war caster, it's probably boosts to wisdom and dex for all of your early-mid game ASI's though. I'd personally settle at a +4 in dex so I could get 2 feats eventually.

[djreynolds]

I like defensive duelist but it is for a melee centric build.

I would dip a level of sorcerer and snag the shield spell, not now but at a higher level after you have maxed out wisdom. And snag shocking grasp as a cantrip and whatever else

War caster is great but resilient con in the long run is strong as it affects concentration and saves, like paralysis and stun.

Unfortunately you must leave BB voluntarily, so repelling blast will not work... it is the same principle as AoO... if a gust of wind or explosion knocks an enemy away.. you do not get an AoO

[Sir cryosin]

I like defensive duelist but it is for a melee centric build.

I would dip a level of sorcerer and snag the shield spell, not now but at a higher level after you have maxed out wisdom. And snag shocking grasp as a cantrip and whatever else

War caster is great but resilient con in the long run is strong as it affects concentration and saves, like paralysis and stun.

Unfortunately you must leave BB voluntarily, so repelling blast will not work... it is the same principle as AoO... if a gust of wind or explosion knocks an enemy away.. you do not get an AoO

You didn't read his post he said thanks to repealing blast pushing the enemy out of melee. When the enemy re-engage coming into melee setting off booming blade. He knows the force movement doesn't proc booming blade.

[Waazraath]

@Cryosin: correct.
@djreynolds: as Cryosin says. Effectively, this will work the same: or the target eats the damage, or wastes an action, or uses a (probably inferior) ranged attack. All win. As for defensive duelist: I think this probably will be a melee centric build, given there are only 3 players and the warlock will avoid melee completely. The booming blade cantrip gives me a solid melee option.
@Foxhound438: correct about call lightning. It has a very specific range though, targets need to be adjecent to affect more than 1. And when it only effects 1, my assumption is, I can beter move into melee and make an attack for (at that level) 2d8+4, with an option for another 2d8 when BB procs.

But I see a majority goes with "boost your con save". I expected more people saying "just boost dex to 20 first" or suggesting other feats, especially given that it's a 3 people party and I expect to be in melee a lot. Oh well. I'll see how the first sessions up to lvl 4 go.

[EvilAnagram]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't mention Elemental adept because I assume (but correct me if I'm wrong) that few creatures have thunder resistance.
This is largely true.


As for concentration / warcaster: is it possible to skip most concentration spells, by focussing on non-concentration spells like spiritual weapon and instantaneous effects like shatter, thunder wave, bansihment, healing word, etc.? Or are bless and spirit guardians so good that they are must haves? As an example: a 3rd level shatter with channel divinity is a 32 damage area effect, isn't that as useful a 3rd level slot as spirit guardians?
No, it usually isn't. Spirit Guardians will usually provide at least two rounds of radiant damage, on top of the difficult terrain effect. The radiant damage will be useful by virtue of being radiant often enough if your DM likes undead or fiends.

More importantly, Tempest Clerics can cast Call Lightning, which is either thirty or forty damage with Channel Divinity, depending on cloud levels. And the Cleric can then use their action to zap a group again. And again. Ad nauseum. By putting a single ASI into safeguarding your concentration, you can turn a third level spell slot into half a dozen AoEs that deal 17 damage and one that deals 30. Shatter is still good for its save disadvantage, but concentration spells will muscle in on that territory.


To go back to your original question, I would go War Caster at 4, Wisdom at 8, Medium Armor Master at 12. It's worth remembering that in a 3-person party your number one priority is to stay on your feet. If the healer goes down, things can get dark quickly.

[djreynolds]

You didn't read his post he said thanks to repealing blast pushing the enemy out of melee. When the enemy re-engage coming into melee setting off booming blade. He knows the force movement doesn't proc booming blade.

My apologies nice catch,

but this easily done with running spirit guardians as I do. I use spirit guardians like a self-centered AoE,

I get into melee and then set it off, and then they have to run and if you have war caster, now you can hit them with BB, and then they can stay and get beat up by spirit guardians or leave and get BB's effect.

If the whole team is disciplined enough and stick together, you can all get AoOs.

Defensive duelist is great, but take a level of sorcerer since you have the charisma and now you have the shield spell to use. You have spell options, I have used defensive duelist to great affect but it was with a melee in your face fighter