Playing a Paladin: Tactical problem behind; discuss if you want :3

[Arkhios]

Premise: we ended our last session in a cliffhanger, just before rolling initiative for next encounter. So, short rest is out of question.

I know we're up against a Banshee (and a couple of other enemies, probably shadows as earlier).

My character is a 3rd level Paladin of the Ancients, and I'd very much like to survive this fight.

I have:
Str 14 (reduced from 18 thanks to a Shadow from an earlier encounter)
AC 19
HP 17/28 left
Protection Style
Dual Wielder (warhammer & shield as improvised weapon)
Channel Divinity Unused (though I know both of my options are useless...)
1 spell slot left.
5 points of lay on hands left.
Spells prepared + known from oath: Bless, Cure Wounds, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith + Ensnaring Strike and Speak with Animals.

The encounter is more or less balanced against 5 x level 3 characters, and we are going to be one player short, which means that the character is either absent or otherwise incapable of participating in the fight.

My question is, what should I do. Should I be on the defensive, using my Action to dodge, get into close combat and use my reaction to protect a probable ally coming to help me, or should I go and "recklessly" attack with two-weapon fighting?

Oh, and since I know someone will ask this eventually, the rest of the group is:
Revised Beast Conclave Archer Ranger with a panther. (don't know about the remaining spell slots)
Melee Tempest Cleric (with likely half or less spell slots left, channel divinity used)
Storm Sorcerer (all 2nd level slots + 3 sorcery points remaining, so likely 3 x 2nd level slots for the fight)
and the absent one
Land druid.

[MasterMercury]

From what you have said...be on the defense. All of your allies seem to be back row casters, so you need to be in the front to take some hits. I'd heal yourself. You will likely have the panther for backup, while your party blasts away from a safe distance.

Wait a turn and heal yourself while your party unleashes AoE spells. Then get in and attack. If you can snare down the banshee, do so.

Attack though. You're just a meat shield if you're not attacking. I'd smite down the Banshee first, they have a brutal AoE attack that you do not want let loose.

Also, is there a reason someone else, or even the DM can play the missing player? Normally I wouldn't bother, but if you're going to be in trouble without him, someone should use it. Even if all the missing guy does is buffs or the help action, you want him to do something.


Edit: A bit misleading. In short, casters unleash AoEs, you heal yourself, focus fire on banshee, mop up minions.

[Callin]

Is running an option? Serious question. If not then defense and offense. Burn down the Banshee quick with maybe 1 person hitting shadows to soften them up unless the Banshee is 1 hit from death. Then finish her off. I would only smite if you crit on round 1 of your attacks. After that you will know if you need to cast or smite.

[Drackolus]

It might be wise to burst down the banshee. You do not want that thing going off. Once it's dead, switch back to defense - probably dodge action the possible shadows, since you'll be out of slots and already lower on str. If you start to run low... discretion is the better part of valor.

[Arkhios]

...I just hope my group listens to reason and at least tries to focus their attacks on the Banshee. I might indeed use my first turn to heal up with the remaining Lay on Hands, and then go full attack on the Banshee next turn - if I'm able, depenging on what the Banshee does on its turn - and hope for a lucky hit (crit) to blast off my last spell slot for a whopping 3d8 (or 6d8 if crit) extra radiant damage, which likely hurts a lot, whether I hit with the warhammer or shield.

If I don't hit, well, I might as well cast Cure Wounds on myself on next turn, I suppose.

[Sigreid]

...I just hope my group listens to reason and at least tries to focus their attacks on the Banshee. I might indeed use my first turn to heal up with the remaining Lay on Hands, and then go full attack on the Banshee next turn - if I'm able, depenging on what the Banshee does on its turn - and hope for a lucky hit (crit) to blast off my last spell slot for a whopping 3d8 (or 6d8 if crit) extra radiant damage, which likely hurts a lot, whether I hit with the warhammer or shield.

If I don't hit, well, I might as well cast Cure Wounds on myself on next turn, I suppose.

I think you hit the banshee first round as hard as you can and heal once it's dead. The banshee has the potential to 1 round kill the entire party if the dice fall against you, if I remember right.

[Drackolus]

I think you hit the banshee first round as hard as you can and heal once it's dead. The banshee has the potential to 1 round kill the entire party if the dice fall against you, if I remember right.

It's true. My roommate made the mistake of using 3 of them against 2 fully rested level 14 gestalt characters in a one-off.
Long story short, what should have been an easy encounter lasted exactly 1 round.
I don't want to be TOO gamey, but I will tell you that it's a threat you'd rather not face. Take her out before she can act. If you have inspiration, make sure your initiative is good. If you roll good on that, use it on an attack. If you don't have it... Pray like the paladin you are.

[Arkhios]

I actually have inspration and since I have negative initiative modifier, that might best use if I fail to roll good.

I've read the creature's stats before because I intended to use one myself in a game I run, and I could see just by looking at them how horrific the creature is.

That said, our sorcerer is very fond of magic missiles, which have the good potential of finishing her off, as long as someone, such as me, can do some more damage.

I don't know if the cleric has Guiding Bolt prepared, but I hope so. It would also help a lot.

All that assuming neither of them fail the save against the inevitable Wail.

[Arkhios]

Turns out the Banshee wailed and got only my paladin and the ranger's companion in the area, and both succeeded in their saves. I didn't even get to attack her before our sorcerer and cleric hammered her with 2nd level magic missiles and just 1st level guiding bolts a few times. But then the shadows came... Long story short, we did survive, though I was reduced to 10 strength and sorcerer to 5.

[Sigreid]

Sounds like it was fun! If no one gets roughed up a bit, it's not fun.

[EvilAnagram]

Sounds like it was fun! If no one gets roughed up a bit, it's not fun.

That's what I always tell my players!

I just wish I didn't have to kill their favorite NPCs so much. :smallfrown:

[Spellbreaker26]

I think a Banshee is one of the most dangerous monsters in the whole MM. When my party had to fight one it was a very, very close call indeed.

[Arkhios]

I think a Banshee is one of the most dangerous monsters in the whole MM. When my party had to fight one it was a very, very close call indeed.

I'm not sure if Bodak exists in 5th edition, but it used to be even more dangerous in 3.5.

One save, or you die. No second chances at 0 hp, just die.

And it was constantly active ability.

[djreynolds]

AFB, what's the DC of banshee wail, saves and what is the challenge rating.... I would like to use one

We fought slaad, nasty

[Arkhios]

AFB, what's the DC of banshee wail, saves and what is the challenge rating.... I would like to use one

We fought slaad, nasty

I believe it was DC 13 Con, and CR 4.

[djreynolds]

I believe it was DC 13 Con, and CR 4.

That's a tough save for 3rd level, only help I can think of is bless.

Protection from evil is only good versus those shadows.

Sounds like a good fight

[Arkhios]

I must admit that I may have overreacted a bit. I believe our long ago encounter with the Bodak I mentioned earlier gave me a flashback. That encounter caused a TPK in just two rounds, and it was only one Bodak.

The setup was that the banshee was on a small island in the middle of a pond (which meant I couldn't reach her on my first round, and on the second she was destroyed before my turn came). That would've normally been a fatal location for banshees and shadows in daylight, but her presence there had caused Shadowfell to leak into the material plane and it was dark and lit only by ghostly light without a discernible source.

The shadows emerged from the surrounding forest right after the banshee fell (DM chose to take the absence of our druid into account and didn't have the shadows attack us immediately when the fight begun).

Overall, it was a good encounter. I was just a bit skittish about the possibility of a TPK.

[Spellbreaker26]

Overall, it was a good encounter. I was just a bit skittish about the possibility of a TPK.

That's perfectly reasonable when dealing with a Banshee; they're one of the creatures in the Monster Manual most likely to cause a TPK, especially at low levels, since their ability heavily damages what it doesn't kill.

[Citan]

Turns out the Banshee wailed and got only my paladin and the ranger's companion in the area, and both succeeded in their saves. I didn't even get to attack her before our sorcerer and cleric hammered her with 2nd level magic missiles and just 1st level guiding bolts a few times. But then the shadows came... Long story short, we did survive, though I was reduced to 10 strength and sorcerer to 5.
Started reading the thread, was gonna suggest you use your spell on Shield of Faith and draw attacks while everyone stay far away from each other to limit the risk of group wipe.

But seems you survived very well on your own. GG ;)

I believe it was DC 13 Con, and CR 4.
That's right.




The shadows emerged from the surrounding forest right after the banshee fell (DM chose to take the absence of our druid into account and didn't have the shadows attack us immediately when the fight begun).

I'd daresay it was a smart move, and the decisive change that allowed you to win. Otherwise, you would probably have succeeded in killing the Banshee anyways, but you could have been wiped at the same time (like, shadows directly closing on back row to jump on your casters first thing).

[Arkhios]

Started reading the thread, was gonna suggest you use your spell on Shield of Faith and draw attacks while everyone stay far away from each other to limit the risk of group wipe.

But seems you survived very well on your own. GG ;)
Yeah, we had some lucky rolls, and maybe slightly unwise move before from the Banshee before she wailed. It could've got more than just two of us in the area, but the DM was (he admitted it himself) too worried about granting an opportunity attack for the panther - which couldn't have done much harm to her, due to banshee's resistance to non-magical weapon damage.


I'd daresay it was a smart move, and the decisive change that allowed you to win. Otherwise, you would probably have succeeded in killing the Banshee anyways, but you could have been wiped at the same time (like, shadows directly closing on back row to jump on your casters first thing).
I must say that I realised only afterwards, that I took a huge risk at approaching the banshee through the water: had I failed my save to the wail, I would've fallen unconscious in the pond, and drowned.