What are the increases in stats for this size increase?

[Swaoeaeieu]

Hey all, me and my players realised something weird yesterday.
So a while back, i asked help to give a new player a nice barbarian to play. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?483756-3-5-Interesting-barbarian-for-a-new-player) We went with stronghearth halfling warblade 1/barbarian 1/stoneblessed goliath 3 with some changeg made by me (the DM) to make it all work.

the thing is, we cant agree on what his stat increases would be when he rages.
Normally, mountain rage gives the goliath in question Large size and +6 strength (and some other bonusses). Since we did some rules juggling to increase a Halfling to large size with this rage he gets the +6 str from the rage, and i found this table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm) to give him another +4 (small to medium) and another +8 (medium to large) for a total of +18! strength. But that table is meant for monsters. Normally when players increase their size its with spells or powers and the effect in question mentions the bonusses needed. But this size increase isnt a spell or power.

+18 is a bit much at level 5 we think. But i cant find any rules for this. What would be a reasonable ruling for me to make?

[OldTrees1]

Mountain Rage, like almost all size increases, does not use the advancing monsters table found in the Monster Manual. The table in the monster manual is only for size increases resulting from advancing monsters by their advancement line.

Instead Mountain Rage gives +6 Str, +4 Con, & sets your size to Large(-1 total size penalty to attack/AC, space & reach 10ft, +4 total size modifier to certain combat maneuvers). The description of the ability is the sole source you need.

Now since the character starts as small, rather than medium size as the authors expected, you might grant a bonus for the small->medium transition.

A) Just +6 Str, +4 Con. They are already getting an unintended size increase
B) +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con. Mountain Rage only really gives +2 Str for the size so the extra size could be modeled like Enlarge Person
C) +10 Str, -2 Dex, +8 Con. The Monster Manual table was never intended for PCs (even monstrous PCs) and is quite unbalanced. However the small->medium is not too lopsided by comparison, maybe?.

Personally I would go with B. While RAW is A, I would want the unintended size modeled somehow.

[Dagroth]

As funny as that is... Imagine playing a Petal (Size:Fine) that becomes Large when raging.

[Swaoeaeieu]

As funny as that is... Imagine playing a Petal (Size:Fine) that becomes Large when raging.

wich is why we went with halfling. The campaign is pretty messed up, but that would be too much even for me XD

[Uncle Pine]

Mountain Rage, just as Enlarge Person, is very explicit in what it does and does not grant: you gain +6 Str, +4 Con, +2 Will, -3 AC and your reach becomes 10 ft. when using Mountain Rage. Compare the half-minotaur template (Dragon Magazine #313), which unlike most other sources of size increases explicitly grant abilities adjustments as per the table in the MM.

[Necroticplague]

Hey all, me and my players realised something weird yesterday.
So a while back, i asked help to give a new player a nice barbarian to play. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?483756-3-5-Interesting-barbarian-for-a-new-player) We went with stronghearth halfling warblade 1/barbarian 1/stoneblessed goliath 3 with some changeg made by me (the DM) to make it all work.

the thing is, we cant agree on what his stat increases would be when he rages.
Normally, mountain rage gives the goliath in question Large size and +6 strength (and some other bonusses). Since we did some rules juggling to increase a Halfling to large size with this rage he gets the +6 str from the rage, and i found this table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm) to give him another +4 (small to medium) and another +8 (medium to large) for a total of +18! strength. But that table is meant for monsters. Normally when players increase their size its with spells or powers and the effect in question mentions the bonusses needed. But this size increase isnt a spell or power.

+18 is a bit much at level 5 we think. But i cant find any rules for this. What would be a reasonable ruling for me to make?

That table is only for advancing monsters by size, unless explicitly stated otherwise (such as half Minotaur and half goristro). It's to cover the stat changes that happen when you give monsters enough HD that they go up a size (like a black pudding when it gets its 16ths HD, and moves up to gargantuan). It doesn't come up with all size changes.

[Swaoeaeieu]

Mountain Rage, just as Enlarge Person, is very explicit in what it does and does not grant: you gain +6 Str, +4 Con, +2 Will, -3 AC and your reach becomes 10 ft. when using Mountain Rage. Compare the half-minotaur template (Dragon Magazine #313), which unlike most other sources of size increases explicitly grant abilities adjustments as per the table in the MM.


That table is only for advancing monsters by size, unless explicitly stated otherwise (such as half Minotaur and half goristro). It's to cover the stat changes that happen when you give monsters enough HD that they go up a size (like a black pudding when it gets its 16ths HD, and moves up to gargantuan). It doesn't come up with all size changes.

yes, i actually thought that was the problem. The rage states what it does give. But in the current situation i think there should be a rule for the size increase but there isnt. i know the table is incorrect, but what would a good ruling be?

[Uncle Pine]

yes, i actually thought that was the problem. The rage states what it does give. But in the current situation i think there should be a rule for the size increase but there isnt. i know the table is incorrect, but what would a good ruling be?

You could tackle an extra enlarge person-like effect to simulate the transition between Small and Medium size, so an extra +2 Str bonus and a -2 penalty to Dex.

[Necroticplague]

yes, i actually thought that was the problem. The rage states what it does give. But in the current situation i think there should be a rule for the size increase but there isnt. i know the table is incorrect, but what would a good ruling be?
The ruling most in-line with the likely intent would be that Mountain Rage was intended to be up one size category (as it was meant for goliaths to go medium to large), so it would just make a Small creature Medium, and not have as big a stat boost or penalty.
The ruling most in line with the rules would be that the halfling becomes Large, but they only get the boosts from the Rage (which, being AFB, I'm not sure what they are).
The in-between would be to give the halfling +2 STR, -2 DEX on top of the rage (to cover small to medium (as Enlarge Person), while the Rage's boosts cover the medium to larger). Conveniently, this additional bonus exactly counters the halfling's racial penalties and bonuses to those stats.