Stacking Cleric levels with Sovereign Speaker (Faiths of Eberron)

[Akrane]

So, I looked around a bit, and most people explaining how to stack Prestige Class levels seem to do so for classes without the "+1 level of existing [...] class".

My own understanding is that I add both BAB and saves from the table to my character, and also continue to progress the class normally on the Sovereign Speaker levels that say "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class".

Thus, I would sometimes gain BAB and saves from both tables on the same "level-up".
As such, at Cleric 18/Sovereign Speaker 9 (the equivalent to lv.20) I would end up with a +19/+14/+9 BAB and saves of F:14, R:9, W:17.

However, my friend that plays the part of the "veteran DM" amongst us thinks otherwise.
He thinks saves get added, but you only take BAB from the Prestige Class in the "+1" levels.
As surch, at Cleric 18/Sovereign Speaker 9. I would end up with +15/+10/+5, considering that it uses the same progression as cleric, and with the saves said previously.

I think it makes very little sense to add one but not the other, but if those are the rules, why not?

So, I'd like some help with how that works, thanks!

[Deophaun]

Your DM is right. It's not "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class," it's "Spellcasting: +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class." Those table headers are important. Then, if you go into the text of the class, it tells you exactly what "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class" means under "Spellcasting."

Edit: Actually, your DM is wrong about the Saves. You get nothing except spellcasting from your previous spellcasting class.

[Akrane]

Your DM is right. It's not "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class," it's "Spellcasting: +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class." Those table headers are important. Then, if you go into the text of the class, it tells you exactly what "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class" means under "Spellcasting.
So, my guess is that the Saves shouldn't stack, then?
Maybe there just was a misunderstanding about them.

[Deophaun]

So, my guess is that the Saves shouldn't stack, then?
Maybe there just was a misunderstanding about them.
Reading closer, I see you have a greater misunderstanding of the rules.

Cleric 18/Sovereign Speaker 9 is not equivalent to 20th level: it's 27th. It's an Epic level character, and you must have earned enough experience to get you there. Sovereign Speaker isn't giving you free Cleric levels. You have taken 18 levels of cleric, then you have taken 9 levels of Sovereign Speaker.

A level 20 character with 9 levels of sovereign speaker and 11 of cleric would have base saves of +10, +6, +13, assuming you are not using factional saves (in which case, it would be lower).

[Akrane]

Ok, this answer lead to another question in my mind, so bear with me:

If it is only for spellcasting's sake that I gain cleric levels during Sovereign Speaker levels, then they aren't noted as Cleric levels too, or are they?

What I mean by that is, what does that mean for future Cleric progression when I get off Sovereign Speaker?
Do I resume from the Spellcasting level, or the last level I took before Sovereign Speaker?

EDIT: Ok, this was partly answered by the last answer. So, how do I resume Cleric after Sovereign Speaker exactly?

[Deophaun]

Ok, this answer lead to another question in my mind, so bear with me:

If it is only for spellcasting's sake that I gain cleric levels during Sovereign Speaker levels, then they aren't noted as Cleric levels too, or are they?

Why I mean by that is, what does that mean for future Cleric progression when I get off Sovereign Speaker?
Do I resume from the Spellcasting level, or the last level I took before Sovereign Speaker?
If you took Cleric 5, Sovereign Speaker 9, then when you took Cleric 6, you would have the spellcasting of a 15th level Cleric but the turning of a 6th-level Cleric.

[Akrane]

If you took Cleric 5, Sovereign Speaker 9, then when you took Cleric 6, you would have the spellcasting of a 15th level Cleric but the turning of a 6th-level Cleric.

Ok, that makes sense.
Thus, if I hit Cleric 14/Sovereign Speaker 9, I would be an Epic level 23 character, have an effective spellcasting level of 21 (thus entering Epic spellcasting that level), and class features of a level 14 cleric.
Is that correct?

What I take from that, too is that I better find a way to use turning for something else :smallbiggrin:.
I've looked at some, but that means that I'll 100% need at least one of those uses.

[Deophaun]

Ok, that makes sense.
Thus, if I hit Cleric 14/Sovereign Speaker 9, I would be an Epic level 23 character, have an effective spellcasting level of 21 (thus entering Epic spellcasting that level), and class features of a level 14 cleric.
Is that correct?
Mostly. The requirement for Epic Spellcasting is having access to 9th-level spells, 24 ranks in Spellcraft plus an associated Knowledge skill (Arcana, Religion, or Nature), and taking the Epic Spellcasting feat.

[Akrane]

Mostly. The requirement for Epic Spellcasting is having access to 9th-level spells, 24 ranks in Spellcraft plus an associated Knowledge skill (Arcana, Religion, or Nature), and taking the Epic Spellcasting feat.

Ok, makes sense.
It was obviously a pretty hypothetical question - I doubt we'll ever get to Epic - but it's nice knowing anyways.

Thank you for everything, I'll keep in mind the fact that I shouldn't count on turning undeads while building my character :smalltongue:

[Deophaun]

Thank you for everything, I'll keep in mind the fact that I shouldn't count on turning undeads while building my character :smalltongue:
Standard Operating Procedure for most clerics. Since you aren't running into undead every day (except for certain campaigns) or maybe even every other level, it's good to be able to put those turn attempts to something else so you don't have a class feature sitting around, gathering dust.

Good luck!