Are animated dead minions overpowered at low levels?

[Aurosman]

So I'm playing as my first ever character, a dread necromance. I was able to animate a jouvinile green dragon around level 6, we are level 8 now. Ever since I got that it has basically been the tank and main DPS of the group. Is this normal at low levels? Or am I doing something wrong? I'm playing with a veteran group so I hope not, just wondering. Thanks for the help.

[The Glyphstone]

Animated dead minions aren't necessarily powerful by default, it really depend on what corpses you get to play with (so it's very DM dependent). In your case, your DM gave you the materials for a very powerful creature; a 14HD skeletal dragon is indeed very tanky, whereas 14 1-HD human warrior skeletons wouldnt be nearly as useful.

[Aurosman]

Yeah, we needed 1 more fight to level up and after going over the options my DM decided on the dragon. I even asked him if he really wanted to do that cause I would just animate it and he said it wouldn't matter much. He is now regretting it cause the others don't get to do as much now.

Also we found out we are about to fight another smaller dragon and he doesn't want me to have 2.....

[OldTrees1]

Undead Minonmancy is a great opportunity to learn to work with the DM. Undead strength is largely level independant. As such they can easily be stronger or weaker than level appropriate minions. Additionally you can control way too many undead starting at really low levels.

Your DM should consider your income of bodies when planning what enemies and treasure(corpses) you will encounter.

You, the necromancer, should consider what offscreen business you could send excess or overpowered undead off to do. This is a great opportunity for you and your DM to work out some more depth to your character.

Does your party have a base? If so perhaps park the stronger dragon skeleton as a guardian (maybe both?).


Personally I have tried both the "Excess undead supply labor to support my civilian followers" and "Excess undead defend my school of learning".

[Aurosman]

I do not have a based as of yet, but we are finishing up the slaughterguard campaign tomorrow and we are making a couple places our bases. Im actually taking the leadership feat so I will have my henchmen do something to make money or something for me if the DM allowed it. And I thought I would just animate big stuff whenever I can and store it at my base till my current one dies. I don't want to bog the game down with tons of minions, just maybe 1 or 2 big ones.

[TheCorsairMalac]

I've DM'ed for a group that had a minion-focused cleric. Undead are vulnerable to a assortment of enchantments, spells and abilities. Notably, Hide from Undead and Halt Undead wouldn't even allow your dragon a saving throw.

But in my opinion, it's the undeads' mindless nature that is their greatest weakness. They have 0 intelligence and about as many skill points as a rock. They do exactly what they're told, in the simplest way, without any creativity or variation. All someone has to do to be immune to your skeletal dragon is stand on a balcony. It can't fly, it can't breath fire, it can't climb and it can't use ingenuity to find a way up. Consider also that it's too stupid to avoid hazards or instigate tactics. It will not remove itself from areas of effect, move to guard vulnerable allies, nor prioritize targets.

[Gullintanni]

Every game I've ever played in counted encumbrance (something I know a lot of groups dispense with), so I find utility undead (1HD skeletons) to be of great use. They end up carrying party loot, heavy things, carrying torches, or sunrods so that the party can keep hands free. I've always found this to be pretty useful.

In combat, unless you have access to a disproportionately powerful corpse early on (That is still within your animate//control limit), they provide flanking bonuses and that's about it.

[Fizban]

Animated minions are overpowered at all levels. Think about it, isn't one of the problems with Druid being that free Animal Companion people are always complaining about being "better than a fighter?" Learning Animate Dead is basically the same thing, except it costs a bit of money in return for more potential and it's disguised as a totally legit 3rd level spell instead of a 1st level class feature.

[OldTrees1]

Animated minions are overpowered at all levels. Think about it, isn't one of the problems with Druid being that free Animal Companion people are always complaining about being "better than a fighter?" Learning Animate Dead is basically the same thing, except it costs a bit of money in return for more potential and it's disguised as a totally legit 3rd level spell instead of a 1st level class feature.

Not quite true. As someone who has played a high level necromancer, I can tell you first hand that minor undead (the skeletons and zombies from Animate Dead) quickly drop off in ability to participate to higher level combat.

Is a 20 HD skeleton better than a 10th level Fighter? Not really.
Is a 28 HD skeletal dragon better than a 15th level fighter? Nope and that is with using a CR 20 corpse.

Outside of early level your individual animated dead will not outshine the party fighter given equal optimization.

Although being able to command undead numbering several orders of magnitude will be overpowered if exercised. But that is beyond merely using the Animate Dead spell.

[Fizban]

(Psstt. That's the second level of meaning. If you understand that an animal companion isn't a fighter, you understand that skeletons and zombies aren't fighters either).

[OldTrees1]

(Psstt. That's the second level of meaning. If you understand that an animal companion isn't a fighter, you understand that skeletons and zombies aren't fighters either).

Pardon me for being obtuse, but are you saying that the message you wanted to communicate was the exact opposite of what you wrote? IE saying they were overpowered in order to communicate that you do not find them overpowered?

[BananaNomNom]

also you have not seen anything until you make intelligent undead fighters.

[Fizban]

Pardon me for being obtuse, but are you saying that the message you wanted to communicate was the exact opposite of what you wrote? IE saying they were overpowered in order to communicate that you do not find them overpowered?
Both messages. If animal companions are overpowered at your table, expect Animate Dead to do the same (unless your DM is restricting encounters to classed low-HD humanoids). If animal companions are not overpowered, then Animate Dead is just the non-Druid's hidden companion (you could even make the argument that's why Druids got it in the first place, companions were originally a HD pool same as animate).

[Gullintanni]

(Psstt. That's the second level of meaning. If you understand that an animal companion isn't a fighter, you understand that skeletons and zombies aren't fighters either).

I understand what you're saying, but animal companions are significantly stronger than skeletons and zombies of equivalent HD. Animate Dead creates fragile or slow, unintelligent meat shields with poor BAB, and altogether poor offensive options. While neither an Animal Companion nor an Animated corpse are equivalent to fighters, Animal Companions are a heck of a lot closer.

Animate Dead can be a powerful option, with access to the right corpses, but even then, it is rarely overpowered. It is typically just a "Strong" option.

[Fizban]

That would be more significant if skeletons and zombies were limited to the same HD as animal companions, but they're not. They're limited to 4 HD per level, instead of ~ 2+2/3 levels (with later options coming in at about HD=level). Or if you're not bothering to Desecrate, 2 HD/level, which passes companions one level after you pick up the spell. And you can animate things that are better than animals. Either way, it doesn't actually matter if animal companions are slightly better, because it's still a whole hidden class feature. Once the spell is in play the only way to naturally limit it is by restricting what creatures the PCs fight to deny them corpses of sufficient strength, otherwise the moment they kill something with a bunch of HD the animator goes from "having a couple free mooks" to "having a free beat stick," and that is a significant class feature.

And if your DM is being careful about corpses, you've instead gained the "outnumbered but never outgunned" class feature, where monsters are always weak and your main threat is classed humanoids.

[OldTrees1]

That would be more significant if skeletons and zombies were limited to the same HD as animal companions, but they're not. They're limited to 4 HD per level, instead of ~ 2+2/3 levels (with later options coming in at about HD=level). Or if you're not bothering to Desecrate, 2 HD/level, which passes companions one level after you pick up the spell. And you can animate things that are better than animals. Either way, it doesn't actually matter if animal companions are slightly better, because it's still a whole hidden class feature. Once the spell is in play the only way to naturally limit it is by restricting what creatures the PCs fight to deny them corpses of sufficient strength, otherwise the moment they kill something with a bunch of HD the animator goes from "having a couple free mooks" to "having a free beat stick," and that is a significant class feature.

And if your DM is being careful about corpses, you've instead gained the "outnumbered but never outgunned" class feature, where monsters are always weak and your main threat is classed humanoids.

1)Skeletons and Zombies lose all Special Attacks and Feats. Animal Companions have Special Attacks(like Pounce) and Feats. To compete with a Fighter one has to have both quantitative and qualitative improvement in combat ability.

2)The HD scaling for individual Skeletons and Zombies is not 4x Necromancer's ECL because it is also limited by the CR of the higher HD corpses. Picking a few random animals from the animal companion list (to be fair that list is good at being a random animal sample) I noticed there was roughly a 2HD per CR ratio. Since Zombies are usually weak(and hit their cap sooner), that means the focus is Skeletons which tend to scale at 2HD per class level and Skeletal Dragons(3HD/2class levels).

3)You are right that undead outnumber animal companions. This is an important point. The size of the control pool (much larger than 4*caster level or (4+cha)*class level) is known to have an overpowered ceiling. However even in the average use case you see undead at least double the number of animal companions.

[Efrate]

Just regular skeletons and zombies? Not great. Bone Creatures of say that fire giant lion totem barbarian who retains pretty much everything, of good undead like shadows? Very strong. Also dragons have some weird rules for animating look in the dragonomicon, or dragon magic, your dragon is potentially a LOT better than you are giving it credit for, but not sure if that is do to other magic or animate dead offhand. I'll have to look though my books later.

[OldTrees1]

Just regular skeletons and zombies? Not great. Bone Creatures of say that fire giant lion totem barbarian who retains pretty much everything, of good undead like shadows? Very strong. Also dragons have some weird rules for animating look in the dragonomicon, or dragon magic, your dragon is potentially a LOT better than you are giving it credit for, but not sure if that is do to other magic or animate dead offhand. I'll have to look though my books later.

Bone Creature: Created by Create Undead(uncontrolled) and thus is controlled via the Rebuke Undead pool.

Skeletal Dragon: Created by Animate Dead(controlled). They can have more than 20Hd, have the rare trait of retaining Extrodinary Special Attacks, but still lose their Feats.

[Gullintanni]

And if your DM is being careful about corpses, you've instead gained the "outnumbered but never outgunned" class feature, where monsters are always weak and your main threat is classed humanoids.

There are a couple flaws inherent in this analysis. Even if the HD limit is 4*CL, generally speaking CR and HD are pretty close.

So there's no way as a tenth level cleric, I'm getting access to a 40HD corpse. And a 10HD skeleton isn't that powerful. On the other hand, the Druid's 10HD Animal Companion (a progressed Fleshraker, perhaps?) will wipe the floor with that 10HD skellie.

Now I will grant that 4 10HD undead will still come out on top, but, given their mindless status, if your opponent comes out rocking two scrolls of Command Undead, your undead are going to turn into a liability very fast.

Animal Companions are a heck of a lot more difficult to disrupt.

EDIT: I agree though that, as mentioned the Draconomicon puts skeletal or zombie dragons a lot closer to the OP line.

It's also worth noting that Awakened Undead created by Animate Dead remain under their creator's control and are MORE responsive to commands than Animal Companions, and, as intelligent undead, get a will save vs. Command Undead.

Animate Dead, by itself, isn't particularly OP. It costs gold, produces relatively weak friendly minions, and it is frighteningly easy to neutralize animated minions. It is an optimization friendly option though.

[Quertus]

So there's no way as a tenth level cleric, I'm getting access to a 40HD corpse.

Elephant graveyard, anyone? You don't have to kill the creature yourself for it to be a valid target for Animate Dead. :smallwink:

In fact, fossils make great undead. If you managed to kill the creature yourself.... well, hats off to you then. and you're probably OP enough that the undead aren't all that upsetting to game balance. Just saying.

[Gullintanni]

Elephant graveyard, anyone? You don't have to kill the creature yourself for it to be a valid target for Animate Dead. :smallwink:

In fact, fossils make great undead. If you managed to kill the creature yourself.... well, hats off to you then. and you're probably OP enough that the undead aren't all that upsetting to game balance. Just saying.

Admittedly, most of the death in the games I've played in happens with the party at its centre. The world's a little short on corpses that we didn't put there :tongue:

[ExLibrisMortis]

But in my opinion, it's the undeads' mindless nature that is their greatest weakness. They have 0 intelligence and about as many skill points as a rock. They do exactly what they're told, in the simplest way, without any creativity or variation. All someone has to do to be immune to your skeletal dragon is stand on a balcony. It can't fly, it can't breath fire, it can't climb and it can't use ingenuity to find a way up. Consider also that it's too stupid to avoid hazards or instigate tactics. It will not remove itself from areas of effect, move to guard vulnerable allies, nor prioritize targets.
Slight correction: zombies and skeletons have intelligence --, the same as a cockroach or dragonfly. Intelligence -- does not mean without initiative; it means without learning. Mindless creatures still have survival instincts, hunter's instincts, and full motor control. As such, getting to and disabling prey is the one thing skeletons can do, balconies be damned.

That's all I wanted to nitpick; you are, of course, absolutely right that skeletons will not naturally guard allies, they will not see ambushes coming, they won't prioritize the squishy robed guy in the back, and the DM should severely restrict what they can do. In addition, skeletons and zombies do not feel hunger, so they won't use their hunter's instinct without prompting.

[Gullintanni]

Slight correction: zombies and skeletons have intelligence --, the same as a cockroach or dragonfly. Intelligence -- does not mean without initiative; it means without learning. Mindless creatures still have survival instincts, hunter's instincts, and full motor control. As such, getting to and disabling prey is the one thing skeletons can do, balconies be damned.


I don't actually think skeletons can be afforded even that much.

Per SRD:

"Skeletons are the animated bones of the dead, mindless automatons that obey the orders of their evil masters.

A skeleton is seldom garbed in anything more than the rotting remnants of any clothing or armor it was wearing when slain. A skeleton does only what it is ordered to do. It can draw no conclusions of its own and takes no initiative. Because of this limitation, its instructions must always be simple. A skeleton attacks until destroyed."

Emphasis added. You may be right about the general implications of mindlessness, but Skeletons have a specifically defined pattern of behaviour that places even instinct beyond the scope of their abilities.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Emphasis added. You may be right about the general implications of mindlessness, but Skeletons have a specifically defined pattern of behaviour that places even instinct beyond the scope of their abilities.
Right, forgot about the initiative thing (zombies are the same), probably related to their charisma score of 1. Skeletons and zombies can still use their instincts on command, though. For one, they're still proficient with weapons, they have an average wisdom score, and they can still walk and climb. Telling a skeletal dragon to "kill that archer up on the balcony" will see the dragon climbing or jumping, no problem. It probably won't think to take the stairs, if those are out of sight, though.

I would also rule that skeletons and zombies will defend themselves, if not commanded otherwise. They may not take initiative, but they will react (lethally). That's less a matter of RAW and more a matter of "I don't want uncontrolled skeletons to be statues".

[Gnaeus]

1)Skeletons and Zombies lose all Special Attacks and Feats. Animal Companions have Special Attacks(like Pounce) and Feats. To compete with a Fighter one has to have both quantitative and qualitative improvement in combat ability.
.

While that is true, the simple undead also come with a number of other benefits that fighters lack. One of the major uses of the melee in low-mid level, before everything and its brother can teleport, is engaging enemies away from the caster, ideally in a choke point like a door. And animated minions get a lot of bonuses for that. Their immunity to fear/mind affecting, for example, makes them much less likely to run away/be confused/held, etc. they don't have morale. They can't be paralyzed, level drained or poisoned. You can cast your cloudkill right on top of them. If you have to run, you can abandon them and lose nothing but a few hundred gold in onyx. If you want something to walk down the trapped hallway or pull a lever, they will do so unflinchingly. So, I wouldn't say that they are worse than a fighter. They are worse than a fighter at parts of the fighters job, better at others.

[lord_khaine]

Do agree, a large part of what makes skeletons and undeads so advantageous is that they are so expendable you can even get a feat that makes them blow up.

[OldTrees1]

While that is true, the simple undead also come with a number of other benefits that fighters lack. One of the major uses of the melee in low-mid level, before everything and its brother can teleport, is engaging enemies away from the caster, ideally in a choke point like a door. And animated minions get a lot of bonuses for that. Their immunity to fear/mind affecting, for example, makes them much less likely to run away/be confused/held, etc. they don't have morale. They can't be paralyzed, level drained or poisoned. You can cast your cloudkill right on top of them. If you have to run, you can abandon them and lose nothing but a few hundred gold in onyx. If you want something to walk down the trapped hallway or pull a lever, they will do so unflinchingly. So, I wouldn't say that they are worse than a fighter. They are worse than a fighter at parts of the fighters job, better at others.

I agree with all of that although I would mark it as low level rather than low-mid. By 6th+ level I expect Fighters to handle 3D combat and do more than mere damage with their attacks. Additional their defenses (usually via Fort save + WBL) is expected to grow. Skeletons still have a use in combat, but there is no noticeable risk of a Skeleton overshadowing a Fighter by mid level. They have different roles at that point.

Animal Companions, on the other hand, stay in the same kind of role longer due to access to special attacks and feats. So the possibility of overshadowing remains in the realm of comparing the numbers much longer.

This (that animal companions remain in the Fighter's niche longer than skeletons do) was the major point of that post. It was a much earlier post of mine that said I would not expect a 10th/15th level Fighter to be overshadowed by my 20 HD Skeleton/28 HD Skeletal Red Dragon. My skeleton would still have a role to play, but not one the Fighter needs to worry about.


Although a Fighter might still be wary of the undead controlled by Rebuke Undead. A Boneclaw (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040905a&page=2) can sit in the Fighter niche if it replaces some feats.

[Gullintanni]

I would also rule that skeletons and zombies will defend themselves, if not commanded otherwise. They may not take initiative, but they will react (lethally). That's less a matter of RAW and more a matter of "I don't want uncontrolled skeletons to be statues".

For Skeletons and Zombies to work as random encounters, you almost have to rule this way :smalltongue:

[TheCorsairMalac]

Right, forgot about the initiative thing (zombies are the same), probably related to their charisma score of 1. Skeletons and zombies can still use their instincts on command, though. For one, they're still proficient with weapons, they have an average wisdom score, and they can still walk and climb. Telling a skeletal dragon to "kill that archer up on the balcony" will see the dragon climbing or jumping, no problem. It probably won't think to take the stairs, if those are out of sight, though.

I would also rule that skeletons and zombies will defend themselves, if not commanded otherwise. They may not take initiative, but they will react (lethally). That's less a matter of RAW and more a matter of "I don't want uncontrolled skeletons to be statues".

Good points. They will certainly have standing commands to defend themselves. Their stupidity can be helped greatly by arming them with appropriate weapons, and they will still try to fulfill any task.

My meaning was that with 0 skill points, only the strongest created undead will be able to climb or jump most obstacles. The SRD entry for the climb skill states that the DC to climb the average dungeon wall is 20. The default dragon skeleton in the SRD has a strength bonus of 10. As a 19HD created undead it is able to climb a wall--half of the time.

The campaigns I have played in featured varied terrain with holes, chasms, platforms, portcullises, murder-holes, manned walls, choke-points, damaging terrain, high ground, pools, narrow ledges, unstable floors, greased floors, high winds, narrow spaces, and kill-boxes. Mindless undead have fared terribly against both my group's PCs and NPCs.

[Quertus]

For Skeletons and Zombies to work as random encounters, you almost have to rule this way :smalltongue:

My players loved the time they encountered skeletons whose orders were to "stay still, act like corpses until *conditions*". The PCs didn't have knowledge:religion, and they never met the conditions, so the undead were just a group of corpses that they couldn't break apart (didn't overcome the DR).

[ExLibrisMortis]

My meaning was that with 0 skill points, only the strongest created undead will be able to climb or jump most obstacles. The SRD entry for the climb skill states that the DC to climb the average dungeon wall is 20. The default dragon skeleton in the SRD has a strength bonus of 10. As a 19HD created undead it is able to climb a wall--half of the time.

The campaigns I have played in featured varied terrain with holes, chasms, platforms, portcullises, murder-holes, manned walls, choke-points, damaging terrain, high ground, pools, narrow ledges, unstable floors, greased floors, high winds, narrow spaces, and kill-boxes. Mindless undead have fared terribly against both my group's PCs and NPCs.
Ah, I get what you're saying now. You're right, default skeletons have really bad mobility, more so than I accounted for. Combined with their tendency to attack head-on, they're cannon fodder for the prepared (N)PC. You can fix it a little, but you need high-speed high-strength base creatures (or create nimble skeletons through DM fiat).

Looking at a dread necromancer animating the default dragon, with Corpsecrafter + Nimble Bones - a pretty good scenario for the skeleton - takes its Climb +10/Jump +14 up to Climb +12/Jump +20, and speed up to 50'. That means it's still pretty bad at climbing (40% chance to move 25' up a dungeon wall, or take 10 to move 10' - on DC 15 walls, take 10 to move 25'), but it can jump 21' vertically/21' horizontally while threatened, or 23'/30' taking 10, or 'hop up' a pretty tall ledge (about 8', using "half vertical reach" as guideline).

For fire giants, a popular choice for animating (if the corpses are available), the numbers are actually the same. They have the same base speed, strength modifier, and vertical reach.

[Quertus]

or 95% chance to move 25' taking 10

Come again?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Come again?
Ah, yes. That's really quite stupid. I'll go and fix that, shall I?

[Aeson]

To the OP: If this is becoming a problem for your table, you may want to bring up the line in the Animate Dead description that says that zombies can only be made from a "mostly intact" corpse and animated skeletons can only be made from a "mostly intact" corpse or skeleton, and discuss with the DM and the other players how the DM might implement that within the game without the restriction feeling unfair to you (or others at the table) while still working to prevent other players from feeling that their characters are irrelevant.

Some potential ways of implementing the restriction:
- The corpse becomes unrecoverable if the party novas, because the party going nova is a sign that the creature is sufficiently dangerous that the party cannot afford the risk necessary to produce a corpse in good condition.
- Corpses of creatures from high-difficulty encounters are simply not usable for Animate Dead, because it's too dangerous for the party to take care to avoid seriously damaging the bodies of the creatures they're fighting in difficult encounters. This might prevent you from obtaining any more powerful creatures, however, which you might not want.
- You (or the DM, or some 'neutral' party in the group) needs to make a roll to see if the corpse of the creature you want to reanimate is in good enough condition to be a valid target for Animate Dead. Set the DC you need to roll against by something related to the threat the creature posed in life (simplest way would be to roll against its CR; another relatively simple way would be to roll against the overall encounter CR), the value it adds to the party as an undead minion (most simply the CR of the skeletal/zombie version of the creature), the absolute value of the HP that the creature had when it died (e.g. you need to pass a DC15 check in order to reanimate a creature which was killed by a blow that took it to -15HP), some combination of the above, or some other DC set in a manner which is accepted by the table.
- Creatures can only be reanimated with Animate Dead if the attack that killed them doesn't drop them below X HP, where X is some value agreed upon by you, your DM, and preferably also the others within your group. Be aware that it's possible that powerful creatures may be more likely to produce usable corpses than weak creatures under a rule of this type, which might make this rule inappropriate for solving your issue.

Some other solutions, which I'm listing separately due to their greater potential for intra-group conflict:
- The party needs to be "careful" when attacking a creature in order for its corpse to be in a condition suitable for reanimation with Animate Dead. If the party members have to take a penalty on their attacks to attack "carefully," there is an obvious potential for strife when there's a creature you want to turn into a zombie/skeleton but the rest of the party just wants to kill quickly. If being "careful" just means that the party passes "most" of their attack rolls by X or more, it's 'just' extra bookkeeping, which may still be irritating.
- Creatures get a certain number of "corpse integrity" points, with certain events (e.g. critical hits, attacks which take more than X% of the target's health away) or actions (e.g. power attacks, fireballs against non-fire resistant targets) reducing the creature's corpse integrity. Creatures with less than 1 "corpse integrity" point remaining at time of death cannot be reanimated with Animate Dead. Obviously, this may put limits on the toys of the other party members, can make getting a critical hit less rewarding, and requires additional bookkeeping.
- You can only reanimate creatures if they've were incapacitated and then finished with a coup de grace or similar, or if the creatures were killed by something which is on a list of things that the table agrees does not seriously damage the body (for example, Quivering Palm, Finger of Death, level drain, suffocation, and various poisons might produce usable corpses, but blows from relatively normal weaponry, fireballs, etc produce corpses which are too badly damaged to be usable). This can restrict other players' options when dealing with encounters, and may also produce in-character issues if, for example, the party includes a character who is for some reason opposed to killing incapacitated opponents.

[Gullintanni]

To the OP: If this is becoming a problem for your table, you may want to bring up the line in the Animate Dead description that says that zombies can only be made from a "mostly intact" corpse and animated skeletons can only be made from a "mostly intact" corpse or skeleton, and discuss with the DM and the other players how the DM might implement that within the game without the restriction feeling unfair to you (or others at the table) while still working to prevent other players from feeling that their characters are irrelevant.

Some potential ways of implementing the restriction:
- The corpse becomes unrecoverable if the party novas, because the party going nova is a sign that the creature is sufficiently dangerous that the party cannot afford the risk necessary to produce a corpse in good condition.
- Corpses of creatures from high-difficulty encounters are simply not usable for Animate Dead, because it's too dangerous for the party to take care to avoid seriously damaging the bodies of the creatures they're fighting in difficult encounters. This might prevent you from obtaining any more powerful creatures, however, which you might not want.
- You (or the DM, or some 'neutral' party in the group) needs to make a roll to see if the corpse of the creature you want to reanimate is in good enough condition to be a valid target for Animate Dead. Set the DC you need to roll against by something related to the threat the creature posed in life (simplest way would be to roll against its CR; another relatively simple way would be to roll against the overall encounter CR), the value it adds to the party as an undead minion (most simply the CR of the skeletal/zombie version of the creature), the absolute value of the HP that the creature had when it died (e.g. you need to pass a DC15 check in order to reanimate a creature which was killed by a blow that took it to -15HP), some combination of the above, or some other DC set in a manner which is accepted by the table.
- Creatures can only be reanimated with Animate Dead if the attack that killed them doesn't drop them below X HP, where X is some value agreed upon by you, your DM, and preferably also the others within your group. Be aware that it's possible that powerful creatures may be more likely to produce usable corpses than weak creatures under a rule of this type, which might make this rule inappropriate for solving your issue.

Some other solutions, which I'm listing separately due to their greater potential for intra-group conflict:
- The party needs to be "careful" when attacking a creature in order for its corpse to be in a condition suitable for reanimation with Animate Dead. If the party members have to take a penalty on their attacks to attack "carefully," there is an obvious potential for strife when there's a creature you want to turn into a zombie/skeleton but the rest of the party just wants to kill quickly. If being "careful" just means that the party passes "most" of their attack rolls by X or more, it's 'just' extra bookkeeping, which may still be irritating.
- Creatures get a certain number of "corpse integrity" points, with certain events (e.g. critical hits, attacks which take more than X% of the target's health away) or actions (e.g. power attacks, fireballs against non-fire resistant targets) reducing the creature's corpse integrity. Creatures with less than 1 "corpse integrity" point remaining at time of death cannot be reanimated with Animate Dead. Obviously, this may put limits on the toys of the other party members, can make getting a critical hit less rewarding, and requires additional bookkeeping.
- You can only reanimate creatures if they've were incapacitated and then finished with a coup de grace or similar, or if the creatures were killed by something which is on a list of things that the table agrees does not seriously damage the body (for example, Quivering Palm, Finger of Death, level drain, suffocation, and various poisons might produce usable corpses, but blows from relatively normal weaponry, fireballs, etc produce corpses which are too badly damaged to be usable). This can restrict other players' options when dealing with encounters, and may also produce in-character issues if, for example, the party includes a character who is for some reason opposed to killing incapacitated opponents.

I think if a strong creature's corpse was ruled ineligible for Animation after a long and difficult combat, I'd feel pretty robbed.

If the DM agreed to letting me play as a necromancy//minion focused character, and then suddenly started vetoing corpses I'd strongly consider rolling up a new character.

Part of the reward for killing a powerful opponent as a necromancer is gaining access to the corpse at the end of the confrontation.

If the killing blow is delivered via Disintegrate, then that would understandably preclude the creation of the undead.

On the other hand, if the Ubercharger finally gets a clear shot and miraculously lands a charge dealing six hundred damage after a long melee? That corpse should probably be a reward for the party...if their alignment permits :P

[Fouredged Sword]

If you play by the animate dead rules and don't do abuse like command dead for tons of high HD undead creatures, you should be fine. Your DM SHOULD cull your herd on a regular basis. There are enough things that just flatly kill undead that you should be ready to lose even a prize undead creature if you take it into combat. A cleric with the Sun domain should be a worry for you as they will just walk up and say "Get dusted son!" and wipe out your undead. A paladin with an undead bane greatsword SHOULD be on the lookout for necromancers and be perfectly happy to wipe out any undead he finds.

And do look up the dragon specific templates in the Draconomicon. A zombie dragon is generally better than a skeletal dragon as they maintain the fly speed and breath weapon (abit at a lower save DC).