Dwarven Stone Sorcerer Blade Warlock MC Help

[tkuremento]

I have a character concept but no idea when to actually take the levels. I had though about starting with the 1 in Stone Sorcerer then 5 in Warlock for the Extra Attack invocation but it feels so slow on the Sorcerer part. However if I don't then I get Extra Attack really late. Is it then best to get the 6th level right away or get it randomly later? Also which of the Patrons and Invocations seem good? I do NOT want Hexblade though, and I also do NOT want the Invocations that give special weapons for the 2d8 extra damage per spell slot.

Edit: Forget to say the levels I want. I was looking at 14 Stone Sorcerer and 6 into Blade Pact Warlock. Idk what Patron though, just not Hexblade.
Edit 2: The Title says it but in case you missed it, Dwarf as race :P

[Foxhound438]

Honestly you could probably get away with being mostly sorcerer early and forget extra attack for a good while since you get access to GFB/BB off of sorcerer.

Depending on what you really want out of warlock, you could probably just pick up 2 or 3 levels right away (after sorc 1) and then stick with sorcerer until you find a point where you're happy with sorc spells for a bit before taking any more warlock.

For patrons, I'd say fiend is probably going to be the best mechanically since you're going for a melee build, as the THP you get does add a decent chunk of survivability.

For invocations I'd probably take agonizing blast (it's nice to have a good ranged option) and maybe devil's sight depending on whether or not you get darkvision from your race. At warlock 5 you might forego the extra attack and instead pick up improved pact weapon if you don't already have a +1 weapon. If you do you're pretty much locked into using BB/GFB as your main attack, but it's not the worst thing in the world.

[tkuremento]

Honestly you could probably get away with being mostly sorcerer early and forget extra attack for a good while since you get access to GFB/BB off of sorcerer.

Depending on what you really want out of warlock, you could probably just pick up 2 or 3 levels right away (after sorc 1) and then stick with sorcerer until you find a point where you're happy with sorc spells for a bit before taking any more warlock.

For patrons, I'd say fiend is probably going to be the best mechanically since you're going for a melee build, as the THP you get does add a decent chunk of survivability.

For invocations I'd probably take agonizing blast (it's nice to have a good ranged option) and maybe devil's sight depending on whether or not you get darkvision from your race. At warlock 5 you might forego the extra attack and instead pick up improved pact weapon if you don't already have a +1 weapon. If you do you're pretty much locked into using BB/GFB as your main attack, but it's not the worst thing in the world.

I guess that is true, I don't necessarily need extra attack I guess. The real question is if I use my Smite Spell as a bonus action and then immediately use my action to cast GFB or BB does that trigger the Smite Spell? I would say yes because they require one to make a melee attack with a weapon, which is the same thing as saying a melee weapon attack, right?

[Haldir]

A 1 level dip in Warlock Hexblade is instant win for charisma gishes now. Everything else should be sorcerer to maximize Spell Points. Twin and Quicken Metamagic ASAP. If you're not the top damage dealer at your table you're doing something wrong, probably check your spell list.

[tkuremento]

A 1 level dip in Warlock Hexblade is instant win for charisma gishes now. Everything else should be sorcerer to maximize Spell Points. Twin and Quicken Metamagic ASAP. If you're not the top damage dealer at your table you're doing something wrong, probably check your spell list.

I'm not asking for the most optimal build ever, I'm asking for help with the build I want. And I dislike Hexblade. I do not want Hexblade.

[Haldir]

That is the build you want. Five levels of warlock gives you nothing to use your stone sorcery with. Dip the Warlock (because you want it in your build) and then go the rest for sorcerer until later. My option simply gives you an extra attack sooner, with more power, but less often. Then if you need the extra attack later, burn five levels for two measly spell slots.

[tkuremento]

That is the build you want. Five levels of warlock gives you nothing to use your stone sorcery with. Dip the Warlock (because you want it in your build) and then go the rest for sorcerer until later. My option simply gives you an extra attack sooner, with more power, but less often. Then if you need the extra attack later, burn five levels for two measly spell slots.

Why are you so up in arms with someone wanting to play in the not most optimal fashion? Extra attack can help with OH hey I used a smite spell then missed my attack, but oh wait now I get a second attack and hit. I hadn't before considered the cantrip aspect though, with how they could technically trigger the smite spells. I might actually go that over the extra attack. However I could still get some levels in Warlock for the 6th level patron ability, get one of those invocation weapons, or lots of other cool things.

[Haldir]

You asked about the order to taje the class levels in. I have simply given you a suggestion about how to fill it out so as to be useful in levels 1-5. I could honestly care less about your optimization, but don't assume that because i gave you an optimized build it doesn't fit the concept.

[Haldir]

I also don't know what smite spells you might mean, but extra attack doesn't trigger on spells that use an attack, and warlock doesn't have enough spells to ever use the smiting spell lines.

[tkuremento]

I also don't know what smite spells you might mean, but extra attack doesn't trigger on spells that use an attack, and warlock doesn't have enough spells to ever use the smiting spell lines.

Thundering Smite is an example. It would allow for Extra Attack because it is a concentration spell that says the next melee weapon attack that hits does X. It costs a bonus action to cast this spell. This is how all those various X Smite spells are worded. This means if you attack and miss, then attack and hit, you still get the benefit of the spell. It also means that for most of the spells you'd be able to gain benefit of Extra Attack as you are using the normal attack action to do so and not part of a spell. I know Extra Attacks doesn't work with GFB/BB.


You asked about the order to taje the class levels in. I have simply given you a suggestion about how to fill it out so as to be useful in levels 1-5. I could honestly care less about your optimization, but don't assume that because i gave you an optimized build it doesn't fit the concept.

I asked for no Hexblade in my first post and then you suggest Hexblade:


A 1 level dip in Warlock Hexblade is instant win for charisma gishes now. Everything else should be sorcerer to maximize Spell Points. Twin and Quicken Metamagic ASAP. If you're not the top damage dealer at your table you're doing something wrong, probably check your spell list.

Then the following I don't understand:


That is the build you want. Five levels of warlock gives you nothing to use your stone sorcery with. Dip the Warlock (because you want it in your build) and then go the rest for sorcerer until later. My option simply gives you an extra attack sooner, with more power, but less often. Then if you need the extra attack later, burn five levels for two measly spell slots.

Extra attack sooner, I understand you mean getting it levels sooner. With more power but less often? I don't understand that part later. Then you say burn five levels for two "MEASLY" spell slots. This is a character concept but you are in fact being a bit rude by calling what I want as measly; contemptibly small; where as contempt is the feeling that a person or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn.

[Haldir]

You asked for no hexblade in an edit after i posted. :smallconfused: We need more level informarion to properly help.

Also, none of those (terrible) smite spells are on any list you have access to, so I'm not sure why you're ecen bringing them up. Build sorc, twin GFB, add your sweet bonus damage and win. pick up hex from warlock and et the rest of the class. Or pkay your imaginary class. Good luck in whatever though.

[tkuremento]

You asked for no hexblade in an edit after i posted. :smallconfused: We need more level informarion to properly help.

Also, none of those (terrible) smite spells are on any list you have access to, so I'm not sure why you're ecen bringing them up. Build sorc, twin GFB, add your sweet bonus damage and win. pick up hex from warlock and et the rest of the class. Or pkay your imaginary class. Good luck in whatever though.

THEY ARE ON THE STONE SORCERER LIST! You know, the Unearthed Arcana on Sorcerer that was recently released! Also prior to the edit it still said "I do NOT want Hexblade though" and still says that.

[joaber]

THEY ARE ON THE STONE SORCERER LIST! You know, the Unearthed Arcana on Sorcerer that was recently released! Also prior to the edit it still said "I do NOT want Hexblade though" and still says that.

Well, you really don't need extra attack, in fact, if you get eldritch blast and they invocation, you don't need weapon at all (maybe just when you stay in melee, not most of the time). But at sorcerer 3, you could twin booming blade, what is better than extra attack, really worth the 1 SP.
Smite spells sucks, really really bad. The concentration part is awful, you have 913480293 better options to your concentration, and again, if you twin BB or quick eldritch blast this will give more damage for less.

Think about Claw of Acamar, The Great Old One patron, Pact of the Blade feature. This worth much more than smite spells. One hand weapon with shield (no hexblade) and reach. As sorlock, you can use BB, quick dissonant whisppers (you get that with Great old one), triggering BB and giving you an AoO (with War Caster you could spam some eldritch blast or use BB again. Eldritch blast with repealling blast or grasp of hadar). great old one let you twin dissonant whisppers an tasha's hideous laghter too. And when you get a critical, you can use the 2d8 from claw of acamar.
The problam is the MAD, you need Str, Con, Cha and warcaster (and spellsniper if want to cast BB or GFB with 10ft).

[tkuremento]

Well, you really don't need extra attack, in fact, if you get eldritch blast and they invocation, you don't need weapon at all (maybe just when you stay in melee, not most of the time). But at sorcerer 3, you could twin booming blade, what is better than extra attack, really worth the 1 SP.
Smite spells sucks, really really bad. The concentration part is awful, you have 913480293 better options to your concentration, and again, if you twin BB or quick eldritch blast this will give more damage for less.

Think about Claw of Acamar, The Great Old One patron, Pact of the Blade feature. This worth much more than smite spells. One hand weapon with shield (no hexblade) and reach. As sorlock, you can use BB, quick dissonant whisppers (you get that with Great old one), triggering BB and giving you an AoO (with War Caster you could spam some eldritch blast or use BB again. Eldritch blast with repealling blast or grasp of hadar). great old one let you twin dissonant whisppers an tasha's hideous laghter too. And when you get a critical, you can use the 2d8 from claw of acamar.
The problam is the MAD, you need Str, Con, Cha and warcaster (and spellsniper if want to cast BB or GFB with 10ft).

I'm still against the invocation weapons with the 2d8. It just feels way too powerful. If anything it should scale similar to Divine Smite being 2d8 at 1st level but then only 1d8 per additional level. Even then it gets higher then Divine Smite since Paladins aren't full casters.

[joaber]

I'm still against the invocation weapons with the 2d8. It just feels way too powerful. If anything it should scale similar to Divine Smite being 2d8 at 1st level but then only 1d8 per additional level. Even then it gets higher then Divine Smite since Paladins aren't full casters.

ok, you don't need to get the invocation to make that build, and if you get just for the reach with one handed weapon. And you don't need the reach weapon since this doesn't work well with BB or GFB. But warcaster with dissonant whisppers and booming blade is really good, auto trigger BB, if both hit add 3d6+1d8 (scale with your level) for 1st level spell... better than the 2d8 from invocation. You can grab pact of tome for shillelagh and than forget Str or Dex.
I don't know if the invocation are really that powerful, I always thinked that divine smite is too weak.
Mechanically dwarven isn't a good option since don't add Cha, but is up to you.

[tkuremento]

ok, you don't need to get the invocation to make that build, and if you get just for the reach with one handed weapon. And you don't need the reach weapon since this doesn't work well with BB or GFB. But warcaster with dissonant whisppers and booming blade is really good, auto trigger BB, if both hit add 3d6+1d8 (scale with your level) for 1st level spell... better than the 2d8 from invocation. You can grab pact of tome for shillelagh and than forget Str or Dex.
I don't know if the invocation are really that powerful, I always thinked that divine smite is too weak.
Mechanically dwarven isn't a good option since don't add Cha, but is up to you.

Dwarven because Stone Sorcery, it just sounds thematically amazing. I could go Tome for Shillelagh, that sounds good :o I hadn't even considered that. I mean others would say just go Hexblade but given my dislike of its power, I'd be fine with the Shillelagh though~ Thanks for the help :) This is really shaping my character

[joaber]

Dwarven because Stone Sorcery, it just sounds thematically amazing. I could go Tome for Shillelagh, that sounds good :o I hadn't even considered that. I mean others would say just go Hexblade but given my dislike of its power, I'd be fine with the Shillelagh though~ Thanks for the help :) This is really shaping my character

yeah, you will not get extra attack, but with twin booming blade and eldritch blast, this isn't a big problem. Only need 3lvls of warlock too, can get many sorcerer points with the rest.

[Quintessence]

You asked for no hexblade in an edit after i posted. :smallconfused: We need more level informarion to properly help.

Also, none of those (terrible) smite spells are on any list you have access to, so I'm not sure why you're ecen bringing them up. Build sorc, twin GFB, add your sweet bonus damage and win. pick up hex from warlock and et the rest of the class. Or pkay your imaginary class. Good luck in whatever though.

You can't even twin GFB...

[Vaz]

You can't even twin GFB... Any particular reason why not?

[Quintessence]

Any particular reason why not?

Because of the rider of dealing damage to two additional targets.

[tkuremento]

Any particular reason why not?

Spells that can target more than one creature cannot be twinned. GFB can target a second creature.

Edit: Ninja'd, and no I'm not going to go with the whole Shadow Monk joke, I prefer Ninjas

[Vaz]

But it only targets one creature. The rider effect is not contingent to targeting.

Compare that to say an upcast Charm Person which says 'you can target one additional creature...'

[joaber]

But it only targets one creature. The rider effect is not contingent to targeting.

Compare that to say an upcast Charm Person which says 'you can target one additional creature...'

Same with ice shard, but Jeremy Crawford already said that if affecr more than one, doesn't work.

[Quintessence]

But it only targets one creature. The rider effect is not contingent to targeting.

Compare that to say an upcast Charm Person which says 'you can target one additional creature...'

It is intended if it ever targets more than one person, you cannot twin it.

[Arnie82]

If you're going with stone, I don't think I would multiclass until after level 6. Level 3 spell slot, haste, and aegis are just too good to wait for with stone. Warcaster is almost a must at level 4. Character levels 7 and 8 I would take as warlock. 2 more spell slots for shield that recharge is great addition.

I know you wanted to use the smite spells, but haste is just so much better. With that in mind, I would look to take only 1 smite to use when you don't have a level 3 spell slot left.

[Vaz]

It is intended if it ever targets more than one person, you cannot twin it.
Says who? It targets one individual, ergo you can Twin it.

If it's unintentional, better have a word with the boys who write the rules and get them to sharpen up their game.

[Arnie82]

Says who? It targets one individual, ergo you can Twin it.

If it's unintentional, better have a word with the boys who write the rules and get them to sharpen up their game.

Let me get this straight, your trying to say since green flame blade only says target one tume, that the second creature is not targeted? By your interpretation, delayed fire can be twinned.

[tkuremento]

Says who? It targets one individual, ergo you can Twin it.

If it's unintentional, better have a word with the boys who write the rules and get them to sharpen up their game.

GFB literally has the words "The second creature" in it. It targets two creatures.

[Vaz]

But you are not targeting two. You are targeting one.

[tkuremento]

But you are not targeting two. You are targeting one.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/11/10/can-you-us-twinned-spell-with-green-flame-blade/

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/663510873449762816?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[Vaz]

Not the first or last time Sage Advice is wrong. When they put it in print/FAQ let me know.

Play D&D long enough mate, you'll see Safe Advice for the crock of **** it is.

It quite clearly, within the spell says 'you must make a melee weapon attack against ONE (emphasis mine) creature. On a hit, the target leaps..."

IF it targeted two creatures it would be rolled for against both creatures. But it doesn't, it targets one creature, and then has additional affects. What about Ice Knife? If that twinnable?

Sage Advice is hilariously bad, snap decisions made by a dude who spends too much time reading twitter for his wage packet, or has someone else ghost writing for him removing any validity of what JC says.

[tkuremento]

Not the first or last time Sage Advice is wrong. When they put it in print/FAQ let me know.

Play D&D long enough mate, you'll see Safe Advice for the crock of **** it is.

It quite clearly, within the spell says 'you must make a melee weapon attack against ONE (emphasis mine) creature. On a hit, the target leaps..."

IF it targeted two creatures it would be rolled for against both creatures. But it doesn't, it targets one creature, and then has additional affects. What about Ice Knife? If that twinnable?

Sage Advice is hilariously bad, snap decisions made by a dude who spends too much time reading twitter for his wage packet, or has someone else ghost writing for him removing any validity of what JC says.

SRD page 102, PHB 204
"TARGETS
A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below).
Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all. An effect like crackling lightning is obvious, but a more subtle effect, such as an attempt to read a creature’s thoughts, typically goes unnoticed, unless a spell says otherwise."

Is the second creature really not a target? What a target is is described in the book. This is exactly what is being done with GFB.

And with the errata to Twinned Spell: "Twinned Spell (p. 102). To be eligible for Twinned Spell, a spell must be incapable of targeting more than one creature at the spell’s current level."

GFB targets a second creature. It cannot be Twinned.

[Vaz]

How many do you pick to target? You make one melee attack as part of the casting of the spell against one creature. "on a hit the target suffers the attacks normal effects"

If there were two targets, it would say the "First Target". The rider of the spell is not contingent to its targeting outside of you Hitting the Target.

If it was capable of targeting two, it would say something like Bane (up to three creatures... You can target one additional) Banishment, etc.

It doesn't. It says "against one creature within the spell's range". Twinning relies on their being one target at the point of casting. If there were a second target, you'd be rolling to hit against that.

Hell, Twinning actually divides by 0. When you cast a spell, it has to be incapable of targeting more than one creature at its current level; the very existence of twinning metamagic means that you cannot ever use Metamagic on itself.

Don't go by RAW. The designers are morons. Why can you Twin only certain spells but not others? Why can spells which can target one but get additional at higher levels not be Twinned at higher, yet you can twin any other spell of that level.

Twinning is hilariously bad.

[Arnie82]

How many do you pick to target? You make one melee attack as part of the casting of the spell against one creature. "on a hit the target suffers the attacks normal effects"

If there were two targets, it would say the "First Target". The rider of the spell is not contingent to its targeting outside of you Hitting the Target.

If it was capable of targeting two, it would say something like Bane (up to three creatures... You can target one additional) Banishment, etc.

It doesn't. It says "against one creature within the spell's range". Twinning relies on their being one target at the point of casting. If there were a second target, you'd be rolling to hit against that.

Hell, Twinning actually divides by 0. When you cast a spell, it has to be incapable of targeting more than one creature at its current level; the very existence of twinning metamagic means that you cannot ever use Metamagic on itself.

Don't go by RAW. The designers are morons. Why can you Twin only certain spells but not others? Why can spells which can target one but get additional at higher levels not be Twinned at higher, yet you can twin any other spell of that level.

Twinning is hilariously bad.

Again, delayed fireball blast doesn't say it targets a creature, so I can Twin it right?

[Lonely Tylenol]

How many do you pick to target?

Since the flame leaps to "a different creature of your choice," two.

Anyway...

OP: You've said you don't want Hexblade, rather explicitly. If not Hexblade, then do you have a preference for patron? None of the others really provide explicit benefit to the concept except maybe Fiend, but if you have a niche, roll with it.

You've also said you don't want the weapon options from the Blade Pact. If not, what, exactly, is it that you were wanting from Blade Pact? Was it just Extra Attack? Because the third-level feature is basically "you get a martial weapon with ribbons," which Stone Sorcerer gives you. In fact, I'm not really seeing the value of Warlock at all, here.

If you want Eldritch Blast with all the bells and whistles, go Warlock 2 first and then dip out. If you want to hit people in the face with your Dwarvish charm and good looks, take Warlock 3 first for Tome, get Shillelagh, and dip out, or Hexblade 1 for the Hex Warrior feature and dip out. (Yes, I've read the thread; no, you don't want Hexblade; no, it won't stop me from providing a comprehensive list of options for you to kill over.) If you explicitly want two attacks on your Attack action and also Eldritch Blast with the bells and whistles, take Warlock 2, Sorcerer 1, Warlock +3, eat crow, and suffer through your basically irrelevant Sorcerer features in the mid-level while still being pretty good at your standard attack options until about level 11. Don't take Warlock 6; no ribbon is worth the loss of that 8th-level spell.

But if what you want is to play a Stone Sorcerer who is very evidently Strength-based (based on the, I'm guessing Mountain, Dwarf race selection) and takes none of the Warlock patrons or redeeming pact features that make Blade Pact dipping useful, just go Stone Sorcerer 20. It's pretty self-sufficient and feature-rich, and the loss of Eldritch Blast is carried by the silver medal winner for best spell list, and spellcasting to the 9ths, with a smite option to go with it. You can't lose.

[Arnie82]

Since the flame leaps to "a different creature of your choice," two.

Anyway...

OP: You've said you don't want Hexblade, rather explicitly. If not Hexblade, then do you have a preference for patron? None of the others really provide explicit benefit to the concept except maybe Fiend, but if you have a niche, roll with it.

You've also said you don't want the weapon options from the Blade Pact. If not, what, exactly, is it that you were wanting from Blade Pact? Was it just Extra Attack? Because the third-level feature is basically "you get a martial weapon with ribbons," which Stone Sorcerer gives you. In fact, I'm not really seeing the value of Warlock at all, here.

If you want Eldritch Blast with all the bells and whistles, go Warlock 2 first and then dip out. If you want to hit people in the face with your Dwarvish charm and good looks, take Warlock 3 first for Tome, get Shillelagh, and dip out, or Hexblade 1 for the Hex Warrior feature and dip out. (Yes, I've read the thread; no, you don't want Hexblade; no, it won't stop me from providing a comprehensive list of options for you to kill over.) If you explicitly want two attacks on your Attack action and also Eldritch Blast with the bells and whistles, take Warlock 2, Sorcerer 1, Warlock +3, eat crow, and suffer through your basically irrelevant Sorcerer features in the mid-level while still being pretty good at your standard attack options until about level 11. Don't take Warlock 6; no ribbon is worth the loss of that 8th-level spell.

But if what you want is to play a Stone Sorcerer who is very evidently Strength-based (based on the, I'm guessing Mountain, Dwarf race selection) and takes none of the Warlock patrons or redeeming pact features that make Blade Pact dipping useful, just go Stone Sorcerer 20. It's pretty self-sufficient and feature-rich, and the loss of Eldritch Blast is carried by the silver medal winner for best spell list, and spellcasting to the 9ths, with a smite option to go with it. You can't lose.

This^

I would add, that a level 2 dip into warlock gives you 2, short rest recharged, spell slots for shield. Considering the about of time you will spent in melee, it would be a nice boost.

[tkuremento]

Since the flame leaps to "a different creature of your choice," two.

Anyway...

OP: You've said you don't want Hexblade, rather explicitly. If not Hexblade, then do you have a preference for patron? None of the others really provide explicit benefit to the concept except maybe Fiend, but if you have a niche, roll with it.

You've also said you don't want the weapon options from the Blade Pact. If not, what, exactly, is it that you were wanting from Blade Pact? Was it just Extra Attack? Because the third-level feature is basically "you get a martial weapon with ribbons," which Stone Sorcerer gives you. In fact, I'm not really seeing the value of Warlock at all, here.

If you want Eldritch Blast with all the bells and whistles, go Warlock 2 first and then dip out. If you want to hit people in the face with your Dwarvish charm and good looks, take Warlock 3 first for Tome, get Shillelagh, and dip out, or Hexblade 1 for the Hex Warrior feature and dip out. (Yes, I've read the thread; no, you don't want Hexblade; no, it won't stop me from providing a comprehensive list of options for you to kill over.) If you explicitly want two attacks on your Attack action and also Eldritch Blast with the bells and whistles, take Warlock 2, Sorcerer 1, Warlock +3, eat crow, and suffer through your basically irrelevant Sorcerer features in the mid-level while still being pretty good at your standard attack options until about level 11. Don't take Warlock 6; no ribbon is worth the loss of that 8th-level spell.

But if what you want is to play a Stone Sorcerer who is very evidently Strength-based (based on the, I'm guessing Mountain, Dwarf race selection) and takes none of the Warlock patrons or redeeming pact features that make Blade Pact dipping useful, just go Stone Sorcerer 20. It's pretty self-sufficient and feature-rich, and the loss of Eldritch Blast is carried by the silver medal winner for best spell list, and spellcasting to the 9ths, with a smite option to go with it. You can't lose.

I was thinking of ending up at least 3 for Tome for Shillelagh. I don't think I'll go for extra attack stuff since I forgot about the melee cantrips and could twin BB or Shocking Grasp if I wanted. How does getting 3 in Warlock but 2 in Fighter for Action Surge sound? That way I'm still getting 8th level spells but get Shillelagh and Action Surge, plus a Style and a few invocations. Also for Patron since I'm only considering the level 1 ability, Fiend seems pretty good.

[tkuremento]

I was thinking of ending up at least 3 for Tome for Shillelagh. I don't think I'll go for extra attack stuff since I forgot about the melee cantrips and could twin BB or Shocking Grasp if I wanted. How does getting 3 in Warlock but 2 in Fighter for Action Surge sound? That way I'm still getting 8th level spells but get Shillelagh and Action Surge, plus a Style and a few invocations. Also for Patron since I'm only considering the level 1 ability, Fiend seems pretty good.

I say this but I have no idea the order to get it in so that I'm not horribly underpowered as far as spell progression is concerned. If I get 1 Sorc before getting to Tome it still means I won't get Shillelagh until level 4. It also means I won't get my first ASI until level 7, assuming I don't try to get the Fighter levels early on. Then on top of that, whilst I'd get 2nd level spells via Warlock at level 3, I wouldn't get 3rd level spells until level 8. I have no real idea how to multiclass when spellcasting is included unless it is simply a dip for a level or two.

[joaber]

I say this but I have no idea the order to get it in so that I'm not horribly underpowered as far as spell progression is concerned. If I get 1 Sorc before getting to Tome it still means I won't get Shillelagh until level 4. It also means I won't get my first ASI until level 7, assuming I don't try to get the Fighter levels early on. Then on top of that, whilst I'd get 2nd level spells via Warlock at level 3, I wouldn't get 3rd level spells until level 8. I have no real idea how to multiclass when spellcasting is included unless it is simply a dip for a level or two.

why the hell go to 2 lvls in fighter if you already have Con save, armor you need and prof in the weapon you need?

No, action surge isn't that great if you don't need the first level too. Is just 1x short rest. Don't worth your spell progression and ASI, in my opinion.

at level 2 of warlock (3 total), you get eldritch blast + invocation, you can survive, don't worry.

[tkuremento]

why the hell go to 2 lvls in fighter if you already have Con save, armor you need and prof in the weapon you need?

No, action surge isn't that great if you don't need the first level too. Is just 1x short rest. Don't worth your spell progression and ASI, in my opinion.

at level 2 of warlock (3 total), you get eldritch blast + invocation, you can survive, don't worry.

Not even for a mediocre Second Wind and a fighting style? :o

[joaber]

Not even for a mediocre Second Wind and a fighting style? :o

second wind and fighting style or Cha 20 earlier?
second wind and fighting style or extra feat?
second wind and fighting style or Higher Constitution?
second wind and fighting style or Aegis earlier?
second wind and fighting style or high level spell earlier?
second wind and fighting style or 9th lvl spell?
second wind and fighting style or more sorcerer points and metamagic?



well, after you reach warlock 3/ sorcerer much, you think about the rest.

[tkuremento]

second wind and fighting style or Cha 20 earlier?
second wind and fighting style or extra feat?
second wind and fighting style or Higher Constitution?
second wind and fighting style or Aegis earlier?
second wind and fighting style or high level spell earlier?
second wind and fighting style or 9th lvl spell?
second wind and fighting style or more sorcerer points and metamagic?



well, after you reach warlock 3/ sorcerer much, you think about the rest.

Well considering I'll go hard on Con because of the Stone Sorc 13 + Con Modifier AC, I'll have more health as well. I don't plan on being full on tank or anything but I plan on being able to take a few hits. I wanna be in the front lines most of the time.