Half dragon human

[finaldooms]

Ok sooo.. My new player is having the hardest time understanding how hp works for this template

Since he is doing a human half dragon monk he only
Has 3d8 hp at ecl6 correct?
Since he has no racial hit die he doesnt get extra hp correct?

( if someone could stat a quick sample lvl 1 ( ecl4 i belive) that would be amazing

[Dagroth]

Ok sooo.. My new player is having the hardest time understanding how hp works for this template

Since he is doing a human half dragon monk he only
Has 3d8 hp at ecl6 correct?
Since he has no racial hit die he doesnt get extra hp correct?

( if someone could stat a quick sample lvl 1 ( ecl4 i belive) that would be amazing

I find it's easier if you say "He's a third level monk with +3 ECL from being a half-dragon."

Of course, I much prefer using a the Savage Progression rules... where you buy your template like bloodline levels. That way your ECL is your actual level (for the purposes of feats, stat bonuses, etc.). The three "levels" of Half-Dragon give you the Half-Dragon abilities, but no hit points, no skill points, no BAB, & no save bonues. Just like Bloodline levels. The difference, of course, being that ECL levels don't give you extra class abilities like more Sneak Attack if you're a Rogue the way Bloodline levels do.

If you don't mention the rules for Bloodline levels specifically, you won't have to open that can of worms.

[Uncle Pine]

Ok sooo.. My new player is having the hardest time understanding how hp works for this template

Since he is doing a human half dragon monk he only
Has 3d8 hp at ecl6 correct?
Since he has no racial hit die he doesnt get extra hp correct?

( if someone could stat a quick sample lvl 1 ( ecl4 i belive) that would be amazing
This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?207928-Urpriest-s-Monstrous-Monster-Handbook) goes here.

To answer your question, these would be the relevant stats of a half-dragon human Monk 3:
Size and type: Medium Dragon
HD: 3d8+bonus from Con
Speed: unchanged
AC: natural armor +4
Attacks: 2 claws attacks (1d4) and 1 bite attack (1d6)
Special attacks: 1/day 6d8 breath weapon (specifics depending on the colour)
Special qualities: darkvision 60-ft., low-light vision, immunity to sleep and paralysis effects, 1 energy immunity
Abilities: Str +8, Con +2, Int +2, Cha +2. As a 3rd level character, it doesn't have the +1 you get at 4th level.
Skills: unchanged
Feats: unchanged. As a 3rd level character, it gets the normal bonus feat you get at 3rd level but not the one you get at 6th level.
ECL: 6

In order to level up to Monk 4, this character will need 6,000 more xp. At that point it'll be an ECL 7 character.

[finaldooms]

I didnt mention it for a reason lol...im trying to get him to understand charaxter creation better..and also thats extremely helpful thanks!

[Uncle Pine]

By the way, I think you mentioned in another thread that the player was interested in the half-dragon template because of the wings. Be sure to remember the player that he is not getting wings or a flying speed as a half-dragon human because he's Medium.

[finaldooms]

By the way, I think you mentioned in another thread that the player was interested in the half-dragon template because of the wings. Be sure to remember the player that he is not getting wings or a flying speed as a half-dragon human because he's Medium.

Yup that is him..im guessing he gave up on the wings

[Darrin]

How does Dragonborn of Bahamut not work for him? He gets wings, breath weapon if he wants it, you can add claws with a soulmeld. And it doesn't cripple his char with LA +3.

[Ruethgar]

Yup that is him..im guessing he gave up on the wings

If he just takes the Draconic class from Races of the Dragon, he can lose 2 LA and snag the Dragon Wings feat for wings, then he can take the other two levels later if he wants to become a full half dragon. Or just go with Dragon Magic's Silverbrow Human and skip the LA.

[CNFish]

How about skills. I noticed in the book it says he gains skills as a dragon equal to (6 + int modif)x(HD+3) is that what I would use to determine the amount of skills he gets per level? or what?

" A half-dragon gains skill points as a dragon and has skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier) × (HD + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation—the halfdragon gains dragon skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature’s list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class."


but I also not it says it gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. so, how do I determine the amount of skill points per level?

[Fizban]

Of greatest concern is playing a Half-Dragon Monk. Monk is kinda sketchy on its own but half-dragon loses a ton of hp, and both together is going to make for character far more fragile than you'd expect from monstrous martial artist. Claws and bite would be a nice set of extra attacks, but you can't use them with Flurry of Blows so now not only is your class fighting with itself, it's also fighting with your template.

Dragonborn (Wings) is the best option and you can just dump the fluff if you want. After that, Silverbrow Human with Draconic Wings and Improved Draconic Wings at 6th level, but you end up a feat and several racial abilities worse off than Dragonborn. A medium Half-dragon can get wings with the same two feats, but then they're even further behind.

You could also just make an executive decision to change the half-dragon template to whatever you want and reduce the LA to compensate for monk being bad at its job (people expect unarmed martial artists to be hard to hit-monk has terrible AC).

If he just takes the Draconic class from Races of the Dragon, he can lose 2 LA and snag the Dragon Wings feat for wings, then he can take the other two levels later if he wants to become a full half dragon. Or just go with Dragon Magic's Silverbrow Human and skip the LA.
I believe what you mean is make a draconic savage progression, which is not present in Races of the Dragon. The class which gives the Draconic template is the Dragon Devotee, which does so over 5 class levels and does not give you any opportunity to take 1st level only feats later (Draconic Wings is 1st level only, the Dragonborn transformation can let you bypass that but Dragon Devotee does not).

How about skills. I noticed in the book it says he gains skills as a dragon equal to (6 + int modif)x(HD+3) is that what I would use to determine the amount of skills he gets per level? or what?
Those are adjustments for racial hit dice. Skill points for class levels are unaffected, he gets 4+int like any other monk unless you've changed monks.

[Uncle Pine]

How about skills. I noticed in the book it says he gains skills as a dragon equal to (6 + int modif)x(HD+3) is that what I would use to determine the amount of skills he gets per level? or what?

" A half-dragon gains skill points as a dragon and has skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier) × (HD + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation—the halfdragon gains dragon skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature’s list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class."


but I also not it says it gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. so, how do I determine the amount of skill points per level?

:smallconfused:

[Daefos]

How about skills. I noticed in the book it says he gains skills as a dragon equal to (6 + int modif)x(HD+3) is that what I would use to determine the amount of skills he gets per level? or what?

" A half-dragon gains skill points as a dragon and has skill points equal to (6 + Int modifier) × (HD + 3). Do not include Hit Dice from class levels in this calculation—the halfdragon gains dragon skill points only for its racial Hit Dice, and gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. Treat skills from the base creature’s list as class skills, and other skills as cross-class."


but I also not it says it gains the normal amount of skill points for its class levels. so, how do I determine the amount of skill points per level?

Exactly the same way you do normally. If he has racial HD (if he were, for example, an ogre) then those would turn into Dragon racial HD, including their 6 + Int skill points. But your player doesn't have racial HD, he only has class levels, so he gains skills points as normal for his class.

[emeraldstreak]

Of greatest concern is playing a Half-Dragon Monk. Monk is kinda sketchy on its own but half-dragon loses a ton of hp, and both together is going to make for character far more fragile than you'd expect from monstrous martial artist.

Yup.



Claws and bite would be a nice set of extra attacks, but you can't use them with Flurry of Blows so now not only is your class fighting with itself, it's also fighting with your template.


Bite is secondary, so it can be used with Flurry - at an additional -5 though.

The claws can be useful with this (http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Beast_Strike) (eventually or with Martial Monk to skip prereq).



You could also just make an executive decision to change the half-dragon template to whatever you want and reduce the LA to compensate for monk being bad at its job (people expect unarmed martial artists to be hard to hit-monk has terrible AC).

This character is at peril to be very underwhelming. Just 17 hp from monk, just +4 NA from the template, plus whatever little Con, Dex and Wis mods it can afford means it is glass for its level.

The breath is maybe worth a 3rd level wizard spell. On a good day. But not really. And the DC is Con to optimize, and the dice won't scale with caster level.

It has no way to actually unleash full attacks on enemies farther than 5ft, not to mention said full attacks aren't impressive. It could afford something like a Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker but it won't be enough.


Still, no need to houserule. But go with the system synergy, not against it. Go read what I said in the previous thread. Pounce+extra strength to key off the attacks will make it much better offensively. Mad Foam Rager will enable it to land more good damage despite glass-iness.

Now, this character can be optimized to do both high damage and have high survival, but I wouldn't, because (based on OP's questions so far) he will be running a low optimization party and any such character will eclipse the rest. Plus, they'll get deluded into thinking Monks are better than Wizards, and eventually get here and annoy me.

[Fizban]

Bite is secondary, so it can be used with Flurry - at an additional -5 though.
Claws would also be secondary when used after unarmed, the problem is that flurry of blows makes no such distinctions. "When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons." It gives you an extra attack that round, penalizes all attacks that round, and using it precludes any attacks that don't match. Doesn't stop a basic unarmed+natural combo, just the flurry. Thing is, with a weapon or unarmed strike, Multiattack, and claw/claw/bite, you're basically already flurrying so why even monk?

The claws can be useful with this (http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Beast_Strike) (eventually or with Martial Monk to skip prereq).
Eh, Dragon Mag feat that plays havoc with existing grapple abilities, and monks aren't even that good at grappling.

This character is at peril to be very underwhelming. Just 17 hp from monk, just +4 NA from the template, plus whatever little Con, Dex and Wis mods it can afford means it is glass for its level.
The funny thing is that Half-Dragon does a lot of what Monk needs: their unarmored AC needs to be 4-8 points higher, +4 NA covers you until 5th or so. They have MAD, but +8 str means strength doesn't have to take your best stat. That's why I'd suggest the waiver: LA is for when your character is stronger than most characters of their level, but a Half-Dragon Monk is mostly balancing itself out. Make the breath weapon scale based on level (1d8/level is fine), delay the claws and bite for a while (4 attacks with +8 str is too much, bring on the bite at 3rd and the claws at 6th) and you're good to start at 1st.

It has no way to actually unleash full attacks on enemies farther than 5ft, not to mention said full attacks aren't impressive. It could afford something like a Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker but it won't be enough.
Dragon Mag had that actually, Ring the Golden Bell is in Dragon Compendium. You'd only get like one full attack per day, but if you're allowing that stuff it does exist natively without learning the Blood Wind spell. Which would actually be a great use of Dragon Devotee's tiny sorcerer casting, if it could get you the wing feats.