Advancement, despite "Advancement: -"

[AvatarVecna]

Animated Objects. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm) Zombies. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm) Swarms. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm) All of these monsters, and many others like them, have something in common: they don't advance. Sure, some are more powerful than others, but you can't actually improve them on their base without sticking a bunch of templates on them. You can't have a swarm with class levels any more than you can have an Animated candlestick with 50 HD. Or can you?

What I'm looking for here is a way to actually advance monsters that have no stated advancement. Templates are cool and all, but getting more Hit Dice on a creature that can't normally gain more Hit Dice, one way or another, is what I'm after today. Any suggestions?

[Troacctid]

Advance them anyway because you're the DM and you do what you want.

[AvatarVecna]

Advance them anyway because you're the DM and you do what you want.

"Be the DM who is willing to ignore the rules" is certainly always a possibility. Perhaps a solution a tiny bit more grounded in rules might be helpful, though? Just in case it's a player trying to do things, I mean.

[DrMotives]

Out of the ones you mentioned, zombies are easy. Advance it when it was alive, as the undead uses the RHD of the source. I used an advanced hyena skeleton, because I wanted it Large instead of Medium. So I advanced the living creature until its size changed, then applied the template. The other ones you mentioned are not as easy, but animated object? Sure, let's look at that. The sample goes up in HD by powers of 2. So a medium object is 2 HD, a large one is 4, a huge one is 8. Does this mean a 6 HD object is impossible? Nah, 6 HD is a large object that's getting closer to huge size, but not there yet. Each size category is a range of sizes, after all. Now for swarms, I can't really do that. I guess if it's a swarm of slightly larger rats or bees or whatever, it'd have more HD though.

[Troacctid]

"Be the DM who is willing to ignore the rules" is certainly always a possibility. Perhaps a solution a tiny bit more grounded in rules might be helpful, though? Just in case it's a player trying to do things, I mean.
The rules totally say you can do that. Check out Chapter 5 of the Monster Manual. Also the section on Advancement on page 7.

[ShurikVch]

Animated Objects. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm) Zombies. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/zombie.htm) Swarms. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm) All of these monsters, and many others like them, have something in common: they don't advance.I suggest to just don't pay attention to "Advancement" line
Anybody is able to take some class levels (as long as have Int 3+)
Glaring examples: in a 3.5 update to Monsters of Faerûn, Ghaunadan and Nyth got technically-playable LAs of +6 and +10; both are have "Advancement:—"

Sure, some are more powerful than others, but you can't actually improve them on their base without sticking a bunch of templates on them.Yes, you can.
Dragon #293 printed ECLs for notable part of creatures from Monster Manual; by knowing the creature's HD, it will be rather easy to calculate LA; for example, Zombie should have about +3, and Animated Object - from +4 (for Tiny) to +16 (for Colossal)
(But "ECL 0" entries are a bit confusing: they mixed ECL and LA or what?)

You can't have a swarm with class levels any more than you can have an Animated candlestick with 50 HD. Or can you?Actually, we can have both: Silthilar is swarm with LA +8, Worm that Walks template - LA +4, and Ruin Swarm - LA "minus 25"; 50 HD Animated candlestick is Kaiju Animated Object (candlestick) which is a mount of 7th level Windrider (well, technically it's 52 HD :smallamused:)

[AnachroNinja]

This is pretty random but what happens if you polymorph an animated candlestick into a human and it gets bit by a werewolf and contracts lycanthropy? Does that template and the extra animal HD disappear when polymorph fades? Probably but I just don't remember

[Tiri]

Although you appear to have dismissed templates as irrelevant, remember that some templates do increase a creature's HD.

The three I can remember are Beast of Xvim, Multiheaded Creature and Brood Spawn. Conveniently, none except Brood Spawn have type restrictions. Even Brood Spawn only excludes undead, so you still put it on an Animated Object.

[Zancloufer]

I always viewed the "advancement" table as a guide to size increases. As in if it increases it's racial HD it gains free size increases when it hits certain landmarks. Otherwise it doesn't really make sense in the stat block.

Also it's not really "Screw the Rules I R DM" if you decide to give some more HD to a monster you want the party to fight, but not curb stomp. There are multiple places where the game refers to advancing monsters by both HD and class levels and there are plenty of rules for both.

Actually the rules somewhat support this. Look at the Heavy War Horse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/horse.htm#warhorseHeavy). See the "-" by it's advancement? If you go to the The Paladins Mount (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm#thePaladinsMount) it says that a Heavy War Horse is a standard option and that as the Paladin gains levels the mount advances in HD. A similar case with some Druid companions as well.

[Troacctid]

I suggest to just don't pay attention to "Advancement" line
Anybody is able to take some class levels (as long as have Int 3+)
Glaring examples: in a 3.5 update to Monsters of Faerûn, Ghaunadan and Nyth got technically-playable LAs of +6 and +10; both are have "Advancement:—"
Yes, you can.
Dragon #293 printed ECLs for notable part of creatures from Monster Manual; by knowing the creature's HD, it will be rather easy to calculate LA; for example, Zombie should have about +3, and Animated Object - from +4 (for Tiny) to +16 (for Colossal)
(But "ECL 0" entries are a bit confusing: they mixed ECL and LA or what?)
Actually, we can have both: Silthilar is swarm with LA +8, Worm that Walks template - LA +4, and Ruin Swarm - LA "minus 25"; 50 HD Animated candlestick is Kaiju Animated Object (candlestick) which is a mount of 7th level Windrider (well, technically it's 52 HD :smallamused:)
Advancement is irrelevant for PCs because they always advance by class level, regardless of race.

[Coidzor]

I was looking into this myself (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514937-(3-5-or-PF)-Any-ways-to-increase-an-existing-undead-creature-s-HD)for Plague Walkers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514790-What-are-good-uses-for-Plague-Walker-undead), since they're a source of minions with no control pool cap that are much cheaper than golems per HD and have Int scores.

Best I could figure is getting some way to apply the Beast of Xvim template(IIRC there's a spell or ritual that clerics of Bane/Xvim can use to apply it) and then cheesily feeding it other creatures until it has as many HD as you want or the DM throws a book at you.