Charact Development: Paladin / Hexblade?

[newsman77]

I'm debating on whether to multiclass for our new CoS run. We're level 1 and my stats are 17,11,16,8,10,14 (we rolled & you can only switch the values between 1 set of stats.) We're allowed any books & Unearthed Arcana.

Initially, I was thinking Paladin (by switching Con & Cha). It's my go to class because I enjoy fighting, but also a mix of support. Upon seeing the new Hexblade, I'm thinking there could be some great synergy there mechanically as well as roleplaying. By switch Str & Cha, my character could end up with 14/11/16/8/10/17 (pre-race bonus.)

The Pros:

Less MAD - Start as variant human with Warcaster or Resilient: Con
Rechargable spell slot(s) for smite
Hexblade Curse - expanded crit range/damage boost for boss fights
Access to SCAG Cantrips (Booming Blade+Lightning Lure or Greenflame Blade+Eldritch Blast)
Access to Shield spell
Possible Invocations is dipping to Warlock 2


The Cons:

Extra Attack delayed until 6 or 7
Aura of Protection delayed unti 7 or 8
Delayed Paladin spellcasting
Overlap of weapon/armor proficiencies


Oath is open, although I was leaning towards Treachery or Vengence. The race is open as well, although Aasimar (Fallen) or Half-Elf would probably top the preferred races.

What are you thoughts? Are there any traps or areas I may be gimping my character that I'm not seeing? How would you play this out and are there any cool story hooks you'd throw in?

This seems like it could be a very cool dark-ish sort of character with an inner struggle that will be sorted out in Barovia. I imagine he could be a fallen Aasimar who had to forgo saving the love of his life in order to fulfill the guidance of his angelic guide by saving more lives and serving the greater good. Save the girl or save the world. The event left him deeply scarred and led him to turn away from the light. Raven Queen sensed the void within his soul. She whispered to him, over and over, tainting his view of the world. He replaced the angel with a more material guide (hexblade, intelligent weapon, etc.) that drew him to Barovia to settle the demons within. Maybe something like that?

[Steampunkette]

Green Flame Blade will really help a lot with the delayed extra attack, since it's damage will jump slightly at 5. That's a very good choice if you're going to multiclass before 5.

Hexblade and Paladin have some really nice synergies, in general, as well. The question is if you want to grab Cursebringer for -stronger- smites. Yeah, you won't use it all the time, but the weapon-flexibility for when you need to crush a target with bigger, harder, smites could be important.

Hexblade works particularly well with Vengeance Paladin, but with the Treachery Paladin..? I feel like you'd need to put the 17 in Charisma, the 14 in Dex, 16 in Con, dump Strength, wear a Breastplate, and be a sneakydin. Gaining advantage for your poisoned strike is paramount and it would lead to a particular and peculiar paladin build.

Fun story hook? Have the same "Patron" for both classes and just have it be the way that particular deity or entity chooses to grant you your powers. Maybe even make it a Vestige of an executioner deity. One that focuses on the need to quickly and humanely destroy those who cannot be redeemed?

That way your poisoned blade is just 2 and a half feet of LETHAL INJECTION.

[newsman77]

Thanks for the advice. You're right, this build would totally work better with Vengence instead of Treachery. Sort of like Inigo Montoya from Princess Bride. He's got a vengeance streak in him, but still is still a good guy :) Maybe that's who this guy ends up being. lol

All in all, I'm still wondering if dipping for the Hexblade is too strong. I mean, it is UA material. The DM is fine with us using UA material though.

There's a lot that can be said for straight paladin. Perhaps ditch Human and take Aasimar instead. It could work with 18's in STR/CHA. Plus that would pick up necrotic resistance. Seems like that might get more mileage than Warcaster in Ravenloft.

We just finished OOTA and the saves there seemed like paladins should race to 6 to get that all important bonus to all saves.

[Sception]

I don't really see it as too strong, but rather the paladins in-built MAD issues as rather more painful than they really should be, leading to any loop hole out of them as appearing too good.

Ironically, the build might still be better off going strength primary given just how strong curse bringer is... but for a paladin multiclass, especially one that plans on taking more levels of paladin than of hexblade, I think skipping it will make the whole build run more smoothly.

IMO, two levels of hexblade is probably the right number. The third level can be good for Darkness, but while perfectly strong, that's not exactly the most party-friendly build choice for a paladin - who wants to cozy up with his companions rather than working solo on the edges of a fight. The second level recharging slots are also nice, but with Shield you'll get plenty of use out of the first level slots, anyway.

[newsman77]

I don't really see it as too strong, but rather the paladins in-built MAD issues as rather more painful than they really should be, leading to any loop hole out of them as appearing too good.

Ironically, the build might still be better off going strength primary given just how strong curse bringer is... but for a paladin multiclass, especially one that plans on taking more levels of paladin than of hexblade, I think skipping it will make the whole build run more smoothly.

IMO, two levels of hexblade is probably the right number. The third level can be good for Darkness, but while perfectly strong, that's not exactly the most party-friendly build choice for a paladin - who wants to cozy up with his companions rather than working solo on the edges of a fight. The second level recharging slots are also nice, but with Shield you'll get plenty of use out of the first level slots, anyway.

Interesting take. My only concern was not delaying the Aura of Protection too late, since strahd only runs 10 levels. With 7 people in the party, I'm guessing 9 is our limit. The saving grace is there's another paladin in the party, so that frees me up a bit.

Hexblade 2 wouldn't be the max I'd take. Maybe Paladin 1, then Hexblade 1, then Paladin to 6, Hexblade 2 and flush the rest with Paladin.

[gfishfunk]

There are plenty of good options! Some for flavor and some for mechanics!

If you wanted, you could go Hexblade from the Fey Wilds / Oath of Ancients to give it a fey-touched feel rather than dark and broody. Sort of a chaotic good, protector of beauty and wonder type of thing and it would fit just fine. Warlocks do not need to have an evil power source.

High Charisma is huge for this build, I would do the swap. This will force you into either using a versatile weapon or go sword and board. Go War Caster.

As always, I do recommend pushing to level 5 for extra attack prior to multiclassing, either through invocations or through paladin progression. That being said, I would rather drop the mechanical benefit in favor of concept.

[gfishfunk]

Interesting take. My only concern was not delaying the Aura of Protection too late, since strahd only runs 10 levels. With 7 people in the party, I'm guessing 9 is our limit. The saving grace is there's another paladin in the party, so that frees me up a bit.

Hexblade 2 wouldn't be the max I'd take. Maybe Paladin 1, then Hexblade 1, then Paladin to 6, Hexblade 2 and flush the rest with Paladin.

Generally, I would go Paladin 6 straight away, then Warlock 4. This also nets you an Extra ASI out of Warlock while skipping the level 7 paladin oath feature. The warlock Boon makes it worthwhile. On the other hand, if you find a good magic weapon earlier on you can outright go Warlock 2 and then finish with two more levels of Paladin.

[Sception]

Interesting take. My only concern was not delaying the Aura of Protection too late, since strahd only runs 10 levels. With 7 people in the party, I'm guessing 9 is our limit. The saving grace is there's another paladin in the party, so that frees me up a bit.

I'm in a very similar position, as I was contemplating a hexblade/paladin multiclass for an upcoming Strahd campaign, in a party that will have another paladin anyway so getting to aura of protection asap isn't really a priority.

Then again, apart from me and the paladin, the party is also set to include a sword & board fighter and a barbarian. The only non-melee character so far is a lone artificer. I fear more melee may be kind of wasted, and party needs may push me out of hexblade entirely, and instead into some sort of healer or arcanist role.

[Mortis_Elrod]

i was making a character very similar recently. Only i thought that Oath of Conquest fits more thematically. Playing a Fallen Aasimar who is about to conquer all of Ravenloft with the power of his Curse and Blade. 2 levels is all i would go for warlock, (for devils sight and repelling blast, for reasons i want to try to not do agonizing. makes me wonder why im melee at all.) Grab BB and EB level 1 hexblade, with shield spell and wrathful smite. Then 6 levels of Pally for aura 1 more level of warlock for invocations, finish with paladin.

Feat doesn't have to be warcaster or resil con. those are nice but if your con is good i wouldnt say its mandatory, especially with two paladins on team, grab something you like or boost CHA to 20. This turns out to be a nice fear-mongering build in the end but i love the idea of someone one upping Strahd in the fear area in his own domain.

[Sception]

I was going to go fallen aasimar hexblade 2, oathbreaker paladin 18. Or maybe Hex 2, Breaker 7, new favored soul 11, not in that order.

Not representing a character who had embraced evil, but rather one whose powers were tainted by their connection to an angelic patron that had been captured & corrupted after an ill-conceived divine crusade to purify the plane of Ravenloft. The character's long term goal would be to seek out their corrupted angelic patron, leading to a hypothetical late game conversion to protector aasimar/devotion paladin if they managed to redeem it, or scourge/vengeance if they failed to do so and were forced to slay it instead.

In Ravenloft, the oathbreaker's level seven aura would be as much of a curse as a blessing, but that was part of the theme - that the corrupted divine patron no longer wished to be saved, and would thus use their tainted bond to empower the paladin's enemies, even as the paladin drew malign strength from that same bond to fight against them.

[newsman77]

I was going to go fallen aasimar hexblade 2, oathbreaker paladin 18. Or maybe Hex 2, Breaker 7, new favored soul 11, not in that order.

Not representing a character who had embraced evil, but rather one whose powers were tainted by their connection to an angelic patron that had been captured & corrupted after an ill-conceived divine crusade to purify the plane of Ravenloft. The character's long term goal would be to seek out their corrupted angelic patron, leading to a hypothetical late game conversion to protector aasimar/devotion paladin if they managed to redeem it, or scourge/vengeance if they failed to do so and were forced to slay it instead.

In Ravenloft, the oathbreaker's level seven aura would be as much of a curse as a blessing, but that was part of the theme - that the corrupted divine patron no longer wished to be saved, and would thus use their tainted bond to empower the paladin's enemies, even as the paladin drew malign strength from that same bond to fight against them.

The Oathbreaker 7 aura is exactly why I didn't go down that path :).

Have you actually played with the Hexblade? How does it mesh in with the paladin?

Let me throw this curve ball in there. What about Undying Light Warlock for the Level 1 Radiant Soul feature (+CHA to fire/radiant spells), basically 4 cantrips and (2 from Warlock+Sacred Flame+Light). Would that apply to Divine Favor (+1d4 radiant damage on a hit). Wouldn't that make Greenflame blade even better... plus better fit with the holy paladin experience?

[Sception]

one to two levels of hexblade is fantastic for any sword and board pally, particularly if you plan on spending a lot of time playing in levels between, sau, 10 and 19. If you're actually going to reach and play at 20 much, many of the paladin oaths (particularly the 'dark side' ones) have fantastic level 20 capstones that it would be a shame to pass up, but otherwise at higher levels even just one level of hexblade is like two free ASIs, since you only have to raise CHA, not CHA and an attack stat. So while a level of undying light is stupidly good (to the point that wizards has ignored the entire patron since it first appeared and your DM might not allow you to dip it), if you're going to play to those levels it probably isn't better than the feats you'd free up by taking hexblade instead.

Additionally, hexblade obviously works better if you're going to eventually pick up extra attack, since that's more chances to proc that 19 to 20 crit range on curse targets, plus the undying light bonus disappears if you start multiattacking instead of spamming green flame blade.

On the other hand, if you're going to stay in lower levels, or use two handed weapons, or jump into sorcerer without hitting extra attack from warlock or paladin, then undying light is better, sure.

[newsman77]

one to two levels of hexblade is fantastic for any sword and board pally, particularly if you plan on spending a lot of time playing in levels between, sau, 10 and 19. If you're actually going to reach and play at 20 much, many of the paladin oaths (particularly the 'dark side' ones) have fantastic level 20 capstones that it would be a shame to pass up, but otherwise at higher levels even just one level of hexblade is like two free ASIs, since you only have to raise CHA, not CHA and an attack stat. So while a level of undying light is stupidly good (to the point that wizards has ignored the entire patron since it first appeared and your DM might not allow you to dip it), if you're going to play to those levels it probably isn't better than the feats you'd free up by taking hexblade instead.

Additionally, hexblade obviously works better if you're going to eventually pick up extra attack, since that's more chances to proc that 19 to 20 crit range on curse targets, plus the undying light bonus disappears if you start multiattacking instead of spamming green flame blade.

On the other hand, if you're going to stay in lower levels, or use two handed weapons, or jump into sorcerer without hitting extra attack from warlock or paladin, then undying light is better, sure.

We mainly play in levels 1 to 10. 11 is the highest we saw but the campaign ended before we could use our new spells/abilities.

My main focus is finding something really fun to play that has in combat and out of combat usefulness and keeps me competitive. I'm guessing that since CoS is a module, there will be a lot of saves and I'll need that Paladin level 6 aura. Many people at the table are using UA material.