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Fax Celestis
2007-07-23, 01:00 PM
I have recently acquired the Monster Manual V, and I have to say, I'm rather impressed. Impressed enough for me to say that I think it's better than any other MM but the original for 3.5.

A breakdown, in bullets:
Unlike the MM-IV, the MM-V only has two "sample lairs", and these are appropriate for the two monster-types that they are attached to. Sample lairs, while useful, are probably better serviced in their own book.
The "old races that are covered again" (like orcs and ogres were in the MM-IV) do not present the same monster with class levels; rather, there are creatures presented that are racially different from their brethren. This is usually explained via breeding and/or magic, but there's some really interesting bits in there--particularly, the expansion of Kuo-Tua.
I liked the long format of the Spawn of Tiamat found in MM-IV, but I do know that I am one of few who did. Be pleased to know there is only one Spawn of Tiamat in this book, and it is only one page. :smalltongue:
The "Dragons of the Great Game" section is quite possibly the best entry I have ever seen in a Monster Manual--and that says something, considering how I pore over these things. It makes dragons into the conniving, devious, plotting, manipulative bastards they were always meant to be. The Game in question is one of epic proportion, like an unholy union of spades, chess, and BS...except it uses the world as a gameboard and the dragon's minions--willing or not--as the pieces involved.
Also of note is the book's references to non-core material (and don't worry, for those of you who play core-only, it gives core alternatives), which the lack of in books until now has frustrated me to no end. I am happy to see it used now.
The Illithids of Thoon section is both terrifying and a DM's playground. There are more illithids, yes, but there are also constructs, thralls, subverters, and an elder brain.
All-in-all, a very satisfying acquisition, and a very worthwhile book to have around.

Inyssius Tor
2007-07-23, 10:18 PM
I've only taken the most cursory look at it, but at first glance I'm very impressed. I'll echo everything you're saying, and throw in some compliments about the art (which was very good indeed).

Fax Celestis
2007-07-23, 10:22 PM
I've only taken the most cursory look at it, but at first glance I'm very impressed. I'll echo everything you're saying, and throw in some compliments about the art (which was very good indeed).

I forgot about that! The artwork is some of the best I've seen so far in a D&D book.

Take the Frostwind Virago for instance:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx20070713_creatureinc_frostwind.jpg
Sweet.

Powerfamiliar
2007-07-23, 10:30 PM
I haven't read it all but I really liked the "Dragons of the Great Game". I'm Definitely introducing one as the BBEG in my next game, will probably make the PCs pawns of another dragon.

Zarrexaij
2007-07-23, 10:35 PM
Sweet. I've thought about asking it as a Christmas gift along with the 3.5 edition Monster Manual. I've been too dang poor for that, so I've had to use the SRD and other resources I've managed to gather (don't worry, I'm doing just fine).

The art is indeed awesome. The 'thoons alone were enough for me to be interested (hey, I like mindflayers and their squishy LE madness!). After looking at the other creatures, I could actually use that book.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-23, 10:42 PM
I haven't read it all but I really liked the "Dragons of the Great Game". I'm Definitely introducing one as the BBEG in my next game, will probably make the PCs pawns of another dragon.

Xorvintaal. It is the future!

JackMage666
2007-07-23, 11:36 PM
I'm sorry, I'm still distracted by the picture of the pretty lady...

CockroachTeaParty
2007-07-24, 01:29 AM
Hmm... Interesting.

What makes Thoons different from normal Illithids? What's their flavor, tell me what's their flavor?

Mike_Lemmer
2007-07-24, 01:56 AM
What makes Thoons different from normal Illithids? What's their flavor, tell me what's their flavor?

Basically, "A funny thing happened on our way through the Far Realms." Mechanics-wise, it sounded like Wizards wanted a flayer variant where the PCs could reasonably take on an elder brain pre-Epic levels.

Yechezkiel
2007-07-24, 02:27 AM
Something's wrong with the Shaedling:smallmad:

ImperiousLeader
2007-07-24, 06:09 AM
I'm not as enamoured with the game and fluff aspect of the Dragons of the Great Game as I am with the mechanics. Exchanging spellcasting to be more dragon-y? Makes them simpler to run and cool.

Still, the game aspect is still interesting, it integrates well with Eberron, as you can make the game an element of the Draconic Prophecy. I like the little adaptation sections for Eberron and FR.

I did like that the classed monsters are using new classes, like the Iron Duke, a Knight/Ronin, or the Hobgoblin with Duskblade levels. Those new Hobgoblins need to be integrated into Red Hand of Doom, they're quite cool.

Definitely a good manual.

AslanCross
2007-07-24, 06:17 AM
I wanted to buy this right after I downloaded the Dragons of the Great Game preview from the WotC site. As someone posted earlier, it's a definitely awesome idea for a BBEG. (And yes, the Frostwind Virago is the love)

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-07-24, 06:22 AM
I forgot about that! The artwork is some of the best I've seen so far in a D&D book.

Take the Frostwind Virago for instance:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dx20070713_creatureinc_frostwind.jpg
Sweet.

Fax does your wife know that you look at Frostwind Viagra? :smalltongue:

I look forward to having a look at it and the rest of the book. I have been a little sceptic after MM IV.

Person_Man
2007-07-24, 09:20 AM
I'm glad to hear your thoughts on this Fax.

I think that WotC has begun to understand that they're selling a consumer product, not an addictive drug. So if they want people to buy the product, they need to make it look attractive, edit it correctly, and have well thought out content that can actually be used in a game.

Thanks.

Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick
2007-07-24, 09:35 AM
I can't say enough good things about the Thoon Flayers; they're spooky, surprising, and I dearly hope I get to spring them on someone who doesn't know they're coming.
Mind flayers aren't scary to most players anymore.
A Mind Flayer with axes for arms and exploding doom minions easily can be.

And the majority of the Thoon product line can be used on players at mid-levels; say, around ECL 6-9. That's fabulous.

Also, I am playing a Jaebrin so very, very soon. Because they're beautiful, beautiful creatures.

SpikeFightwicky
2007-07-24, 10:20 AM
I especially like the Far Realm monster (can't remember the name... it's the one with the carapace and void powers). Artwork and flavor are great! Overall, I was much more impressed than MM IV. The mercurion is another interesting addition, and there are alot of new Fey creatures.

Another thing to mention is that (to me at least), it seems like there are alot more monsters in the low-mid range CR (CR 5-10) than in previous books.

AKA_Bait
2007-07-24, 10:25 AM
Must say, when it comes to Monsters be they homebrew or from a MM Fax is pretty much always spot on. I'm going to go buy a copy this afternoon.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-24, 11:37 AM
Another thing to mention is that (to me at least), it seems like there are alot more monsters in the low-mid range CR (CR 5-10) than in previous books.

Also true, which means the monsters are far more usable than normal.

Draz74
2007-07-24, 11:45 AM
Hmmm. This really is the first MM for which I have heard this kind of upbeat response.

Bassetking
2007-07-24, 12:25 PM
Xorvintaal.

Let me say it again.

Xorvintaal.

Holy crap, they've finally done it. They've introduced a nebulous, yet encompassing Campaign-spreading concept that is not only more conducive to a campaign than a Blood War Storyline, but manages to Obviate the need to involve characters in the Blood War AT ALL at any stage in their progression!

Xorvintaal gives us the depth and breadth to execute a vast, spanning campaign, of epic fantasy, without having to resort to "And we're all going to go fight in the Blood War! YAY!"

For that alone, it is worth buying the MMV

Fax Celestis
2007-07-24, 12:31 PM
Hmmm. This really is the first MM for which I have heard this kind of upbeat response.

It really is that good, I'm not just saying that.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-24, 12:32 PM
Xorvintaal.

Let me say it again.

Xorvintaal.

Holy crap, they've finally done it. They've introduced a nebulous, yet encompassing Campaign-spreading concept that is not only more conducive to a campaign than a Blood War Storyline, but manages to Obviate the need to involve characters in the Blood War AT ALL at any stage in their progression!

Xorvintaal gives us the depth and breadth to execute a vast, spanning campaign, of epic fantasy, without having to resort to "And we're all going to go fight in the Blood War! YAY!"

For that alone, it is worth buying the MMV

Xorvintaal: It Is The Future!

HydwenPrydain
2007-07-24, 09:04 PM
Something's wrong with the Shaedling:smallmad:

Very, very, very wrong. :smallfrown:

Very.

Alveanerle
2007-07-25, 01:45 PM
And what would that be that is wrong?

Not having the book yet, i wonder how many errors/mistakes have passed the quality control.

Person_Man
2007-07-25, 03:01 PM
Also true, which means the monsters are far more usable than normal.

You know, it occurred to me that a much better organization would be to have 1 normal MM containing the iconic enemies and rules on how to progress monsters, followed by a series of MM that organize content based on CR. Each monster entry could include one page of stats, on page of fluff, and one or two pages of sample encounters. It would make choosing which content to buy and running a game much easier.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-25, 03:19 PM
You know, it occurred to me that a much better organization would be to have 1 normal MM containing the iconic enemies and rules on how to progress monsters, followed by a series of MM that organize content based on CR. Each monster entry could include one page of stats, on page of fluff, and one or two pages of sample encounters. It would make choosing which content to buy and running a game much easier.

Yeah, but will they ever do that? Probably not. WotC's publication method looks similar to a shotgun blast: if you shoot a big enough spread, you'll hit something.

The Demented One
2007-07-25, 03:41 PM
Much, much better than the one that came before it. I also loved the whole Dragons of the Great Game entry, basically a whole campaign packed into a handful of pages. Now, if only they would use the old format...

JackMage666
2007-07-25, 05:46 PM
Alright, so my DM picked up a copy today, and I read it (sitting at Hastings with her), and it is awesome. So many cool things in it, that's for sure.
Dragons of the Great Game has so much potential, it's not even funny. Maybe because it's so vague, you can adept it to anything.
Illithids of Thoon have some cool things to it. It's nice to be able to decimate a group of Illithids before Epic levels (then, you can move onto the standard Elder Brain!).
I love the new Fey PC race, it's very much a trickster Gnome in another form.
God-blooded template makes for some interesting BBEGs, withot extending too far from Human.
New Hobgoblin subraces make for a pretty crazy Hobgoblin war-group, making them an actual challenge for players, even.
Bladerager Trolls makes for some scary enemies, I think. They either regenerate or explode - Neither good for the PCs
The Wild Hunt section is an interesting high level idea for Druids, Rangers, and Barbarians. Pit nature against nature. Certainly fun.

Yep, lots of good thing in this sucker. Yay!

JackMage666
2007-07-25, 09:57 PM
Oh, and if you have the book, read up on Dalmosh... He's got a dimension inside his throats, that seems to be able to actually support life. It's worth a read.

Ramza00
2007-07-25, 10:25 PM
Don't mean to hijack this thread, but what are people's favorite monsters in MMV since when I get it I won't have time to read it from front to back and thus would want to skip around and then explore the rest of it when I have more time...

Ramza00
2007-07-25, 10:29 PM
Oh it has to be asked, any good/ or broken wildshape/polymorph forms? *dodges rotten fruit*

Fax Celestis
2007-07-25, 11:02 PM
Oh it has to be asked, any good/ or broken wildshape/polymorph forms? *dodges rotten fruit*

The Ruin Elemental is pretty neat.

As for highlights?

Dragons of the Great Game, Mind Flayers of Thoon, Dalmosh, Ethereal Defiler, Frostwind Virago, God-Blooded Creature, Hobgoblin, Jaebrin, Kuo-Tua Merchurion, Ruin Elemental, Ushemoi, Vampire, and Wild Hunt.

Breaon
2007-07-25, 11:09 PM
Hmmm. This really is the first MM for which I have heard this kind of upbeat response.

But the original 3.0 MM had an award winning layout!
</tongue-in-cheek>

(Actually, it DID win an industry award for layout... if you can beleive it.)

Dausuul
2007-08-14, 10:58 AM
But the original 3.0 MM had an award winning layout!
</tongue-in-cheek>

(Actually, it DID win an industry award for layout... if you can beleive it.)

Well, comparing it to 2E... yeah, I'd have to say it was a big improvement.

Artemician
2007-08-14, 11:07 AM
The Ruin Elemental is pretty neat.

As for highlights?

Dragons of the Great Game, Mind Flayers of Thoon, Dalmosh, Ethereal Defiler, Frostwind Virago, God-Blooded Creature, Hobgoblin, Jaebrin, Kuo-Tua Merchurion, Ruin Elemental, Ushemoi, Vampire, and Wild Hunt.

Oh wow. Remind me to pick MMV up, somehow. Beshrew me... I have to get it.

But.. while these mechanics seem very cool, do they hold up in practise? Like, for example, God-Blooded. Is it just another mess, like Bloodlines or is it something playable?

MrNexx
2007-08-14, 11:08 AM
Well, comparing it to 2E... yeah, I'd have to say it was a big improvement.

I disagree completely. The Monstrous Manual had great layout. Monsters were a single page, more if needed. You had a clear picture of what the monster was, without having to trail text around the picture's perimeter, or broken stat blocks that ran from page to page. It's main problem was too much white space, but at least it was readable.

I find the 3.x books to be a pain to use, compared to the Monstrous Manual.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-08-14, 11:11 AM
I have only recently acquired it and only had the time to look over a few entries, but so far I also think it looks really good.

A positive surprise after MM IV.

However, I still dislike the monster format. :smallsigh:

Fax Celestis
2007-08-14, 11:17 AM
Oh wow. Remind me to pick MMV up, somehow. Beshrew me... I have to get it.

But.. while these mechanics seem very cool, do they hold up in practise? Like, for example, God-Blooded. Is it just another mess, like Bloodlines or is it something playable?

They are very playable.