Character Ideas

[Rusty Spoon]

Hey all,

I'm thinking of retiring my wizard in favour of a more strikery character, and I was hoping for some advice.

I don't need/want to do over the top damage all the time, but wouldn't mind a good nova option.
But mostly I'm looking for mobility and versatile attacks. Our group has two or three melee characters, which limits the usefulness of area attacks.

Options I'm considering are

artful dodger rogue
some sort of warlock/sorceror
avenger|paladin
str|dex ranger


Essentially, I'm looking for a mid-heroic character that is mobile and can mix up melee and ranged attacks.
Any ideas?

[darkbard]

What's the rest of the group? It's hard to give good advice in a vacuum.

[Dimers]

For your listed purposes I'd call Thief a little better than Artful Dodger. Wis+Dex ranger is more mobile than Str+Dex, and a few ranger melee powers can run on Dex. Monk is also highly mobile but doesn't get anything better for ranged attacks than their high-Dex RBA, and hybridizing a monk generally goes poorly in my experience.

You might also consider a class with ranged and close powers instead of ranged and melee. There are plenty of close bursts and blasts that only target enemies.

Or go for an implement class with only ranged attacks, then use Staff Expertise or certain bits of equipment to prevent OAs for using ranged powers up close.

[MwaO]

Ranger|Centered Breath Monk who starts with a 20 Dex makes for an interesting PC. Spend a feat on +2 to +3 AC at 1st level - Unarmored Agility as an example or Hybrid Talent. You have Twin Strike with a Bow/Crossbow which also counts as an implement for a Monk - you can use Bracers of Archery with your Monk powers as an example.

Kind of a Zen Archer type. With Quicksilver Motion at level 6, you zoom into combat when you need to do it. Invigorating Stride is always a good power for some self-healing/move

[Rusty Spoon]

What's the rest of the group? It's hard to give good advice in a vacuum.

I'm not 100% sure on the exact classes, but:
The main group is a Slayer and Hunter, I think (Definitely a melee and a ranged essentials class).
As well as a Druid and Shaman.


For your listed purposes I'd call Thief a little better than Artful Dodger. Wis+Dex ranger is more mobile than Str+Dex, and a few ranger melee powers can run on Dex. Monk is also highly mobile but doesn't get anything better for ranged attacks than their high-Dex RBA, and hybridizing a monk generally goes poorly in my experience.

You might also consider a class with ranged and close powers instead of ranged and melee. There are plenty of close bursts and blasts that only target enemies.

Or go for an implement class with only ranged attacks, then use Staff Expertise or certain bits of equipment to prevent OAs for using ranged powers up close.

Thief actually looks pretty good, but I'm worried I might get bored with only basic attacks. I was also considering a sorcerer with blade channeling, but I like being a little oddball. Maybe a staff expertise warlock could be fun.


Ranger|Centered Breath Monk who starts with a 20 Dex makes for an interesting PC. Spend a feat on +2 to +3 AC at 1st level - Unarmored Agility as an example or Hybrid Talent. You have Twin Strike with a Bow/Crossbow which also counts as an implement for a Monk - you can use Bracers of Archery with your Monk powers as an example.

Kind of a Zen Archer type. With Quicksilver Motion at level 6, you zoom into combat when you need to do it. Invigorating Stride is always a good power for some self-healing/move

That sounds really interesting, thanks!

I'll play around with some builds and be back with more questions. Thanks for your help guys! If you think of anything else don't be shy to throw advice at me.

[tiornys]

Thief actually looks pretty good, but I'm worried I might get bored with only basic attacks.
You might look at a dagger-based Brutal Scoundrel build of Rogue then. Better damage than Artful Dodger and you can build one to have excellent mobility for skirmishing. It's not quite as good at switching between ranged and melee as a Thief, but it's more interesting and you get easy access to some minor-action attacks.

[Rusty Spoon]

Staff Expertise Warlock Attempt 1:


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Clarion, level 4
Eladrin, Warlock
Build: Deceptive Warlock
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast Charisma
Eldritch Pact: Fey Pact
Eladrin Subrace: Sun Elf (Eladrin)
Select option: Eladrin Skill Bonuses
Select option: Wizard Implement Proficiency
Select option: Eladrin Education
Background: Warsmith (Warsmith Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 19, Wis 10, Cha 19.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 16.


AC: 20 Fort: 16 Reflex: 19 Will: 19
HP: 39 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 9

TRAINED SKILLS
Diplomacy +11, Streetwise +11, Religion +11, Arcana +13, History +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Bluff +6, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +3, Heal +2, Insight +2, Intimidate +6, Nature +2, Perception +2, Stealth +2, Thievery +2, Athletics +2

FEATS
Level 1: Staff Expertise
Level 2: Hafted Defense
Level 4: Great Fortitude

POWERS
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast
Warlock encounter 1: Witchfire
Warlock daily 1: Decree of Khirad
Warlock utility 2: Assassin's Bane
Warlock encounter 3: Eldritch Rain

ITEMS
Runic Quarterstaff +1, Parchment Leather Armor +1, Periapt of Health +1, Adventurer's Kit

[darkbard]

If you're looking to increase your Striker potential, I recommend the following changes: drop your STR to 8 & raise CON to 13; grab Auspicious Birth as your background; switch pacts to Sorcerer-King; keep Staff Expertise, but move it to level 2; level 1 feat: Mindbite Scorn; level 4 feat Accurate Implement Proficiency or Improved Defenses. Probably Superior Will at level 6. Change A1 to Eldritch Strike, E1 to Flickering Venom, U2 to Ethereal Stride, and E3 to Delban's Deadly Attention.

[Bahamut7]

As someone who has played a Thief, allow me to warn you. A decently optimized Thief (charging primarily) is a force to be reckoned with. You will be devastating, but you may grow bored of it after a little. I had begun to look forward to social encounters rather than combat. I had become a point and death striker. Meaning, I hit that guy...he's dead.

If you do wish to still play it, as mechanically a Thief is straight forward and leaves RP completely open to the player, then I would recommend a few things. One, take the Gritty Srgt. background and grant yourself a Rapier. Bracers of Mighty Striking are a given. Tactical and Ambush trick should be your initial Tricks as you will have CA 99% of the time with these. Also, grab the Backstabber feat to up your Sneak Attack to D8s. I would also recommend the Purple Knight of Comeryr (sp?) theme as it would grant you some other options during combat. Unfortunately I have no idea which Dragon magazine has this.

If you decide to incorporate the Charging damage, you will want a Vanguard Rapier, Surprising Charge feat, Horned Helm, and Badge of the Berserker. There may be more, but I do not recall at the moment. These will net you an additional 2d8+1d6 on a charge plus you won't provoke an OA. This path is Magic item dependent, but most of the items are of lower rarity and relatively easy to acquire even with more stringent DMs.

[darkbard]

Unfortunately I have no idea which Dragon magazine has this.

Purple Dragon theme. Dragon 407.

I have to agree, though: Thieves can be quite boring to play, effective as they are.

[Bahamut7]

Purple Dragon theme. Dragon 407.

I have to agree, though: Thieves can be quite boring to play, effective as they are.

Thank you. Man they are effective though. The intimidation bonuses my DM would give me...good times.

[RedMage125]

Do you not have a Defender?

Also, does your Striker class HAVE to be Melee? If so, I would not underestimate how fun a Supercharger Barbarian can be, even if only mildly optimized. I've played one and had a BLAST.

If melee is not a must, I recommend a Sorcerer. Wild Magic can be a great deal of fun as well. Sorcerer is simpler than Warlock. But there was a Dragon Magazine article for Infernal Pact Warlocks with a new At-Will and Encounter Powers with Pact riders that were all CHA-based, finally allowing for Tieflings to be decent Fiendlocks.

These are just ones I have personally seen in play that either were, or seemed, the most fun while remaining effective.

Of course, if you DO lack a defender, I recommend Dragonborn Fighter (take Hurl Breath, and mark every target in area), or Dwarf Lifeblood Warden (a STR/WIS build, also helps with healing in larger party).

[ThePurple]

But there was a Dragon Magazine article for Infernal Pact Warlocks with a new At-Will and Encounter Powers with Pact riders that were all CHA-based, finally allowing for Tieflings to be decent Fiendlocks.

The Essentials update to Tieflings allows them to take CHA and either CON or INT for their main stat, allowing them to be fully functional Infernal pact warlocks, which was a better fix, imo.

[RedMage125]

The Essentials update to Tieflings allows them to take CHA and either CON or INT for their main stat, allowing them to be fully functional Infernal pact warlocks, which was a better fix, imo.

No, because INT is still the secondary for Warlocks. CHA/INT is the build for every pact except Infernal, and the new powers I mentioned allow a CHA-based Infernal warlock while going CHA/INT as a Tiefling.

P.S.
there was also a Dragon Magazine update that gave "floating" stats to ALL non-human races.

[MwaO]

No, because INT is still the secondary for Warlocks. CHA/INT is the build for every pact except Infernal, and the new powers I mentioned allow a CHA-based Infernal warlock while going CHA/INT as a Tiefling.

Vestige?

Constitution Warlocks have some fantastic powers. Elder Constellation is encounter swap two targets, Vestige of the Onyx Queen is Petrification on blast.

[RedMage125]

Vestige?

Constitution Warlocks have some fantastic powers. Elder Constellation is encounter swap two targets, Vestige of the Onyx Queen is Petrification on blast.

Fair enough, forgot about that one.

Star Pact could be CHA or CON, with most later material favoring CHA.

Fey is CHA, Dark is CHA, Sorcerer-King is CHA, Gloom is CHA.

The Hexblade and Binder classes from Heroes of Shadow were CHA based as well.

It's easy to primarily think of Warlock in 4e as a CHA based class with a few CON based builds.

EDIT: Sorcerer-King could be either CHA or CON, only one I've ever seen was CHA, so I forgot.

[Herobizkit]

I enjoyed the crap out of the Wellblade e-Lock. Teleports for days. Adding Sorcerer (or *maybe* Invoker for some Radiant Mafia-style shenanigans, Wis permitting) will give you that extra burst/minion-clearing damage that a pure striker lacks.