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View Full Version : DM Help I have an idea for a campaign gimmick but I don't know if it's mortally stupid.



daniel_ream
2017-02-19, 04:54 PM
So I've been thinking about running a wilderness exploration hexcrawl for a while - I'm leaning towards either X1 The Isle of Dread or X9 The Savage Coast.

I also have a couple of faux vintage leather traveller's notebooks (search aliexpress for them, I'm pretty sure if I post the link it'll get trapped in the spam filter).

What I'm thinking is that I'll only allow the players to record notes, maps, diagrams about what they find and encounter in the journal, which I'll keep in between sessions. The idea is to create a kind of Henry Jones, Sr.'s journal from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, as well as have a cool campaign artifact for afterwards.

If you were a player, would this sound cool? Or just really annoying? Would having the journal afterwards be worth the effort?

Recherché
2017-02-19, 06:33 PM
I've been in a campaign where one of the fellow players was a calligrapher and kept an In Character captain's log/diary/crew roster/maps. It was really cool and gorgeous to see our pirate crew's adventures in that format.

However only allowing the group to keep notes in one specific place seems a lot less interesting and more restrictive. A lot of the notes will be utterly banal and out of character things that I don't actually want in a permanent record, like what spells the witch prepped today. Or what the current adjusted modifiers are for the fighter after a bunch of buffs and debuffs.

The DM keeping the notes between sessions only makes this worse because then I don't have access to my notes when I'm trying to think up a plan between sessions or even planning my next level up or shopping list. Also its kind of insulting in the way it implies I can't be trusted with my own notebook.

Finally not having the notes between sessions would have prevented our calligrapher from being able to draw all the maps and minutiae of the log for our group. Some of the complex stuff takes a while and you don't have the time for that while playing most of the time. Giving your players their logbook between sessions might actually encourage them to put more stuff into it than just quick notes.

So my two cents are yay for the IC notebook but nay to most of the restrictions.

TheIronGolem
2017-02-19, 07:02 PM
Everything Recherché said x2. Props are cool, rules against writing down facts about what happened in a game are not.

daniel_ream
2017-02-19, 10:09 PM
The DM keeping the notes between sessions only makes this worse because then I don't have access to my notes when I'm trying to think up a plan between sessions or even planning my next level up or shopping list.

I wouldn't be using a system where either of those is relevant or takes a significant amount of time (I'm waffling between Mythras, Reign, or even Fate. Haven't decided yet). I expect it will be more along the lines of "how much wood do we need for the palisade around the camp".


Also its kind of insulting in the way it implies I can't be trusted with my own notebook.

It's nothing to do with trust; it's to do with immersion. By keeping all campaign notes in a single place, it produces a campaign artifact that they'll have to refer to in later sessions. "What did the stone glyphs look like again? Check the journal, yeah, these look the same".

As an aside, since joining the board I've come to the conclusion that people do seem to like being insulted by things that aren't insults. But I play with adults who aren't afraid to say "I don't think I'd like that" before sitting down at the table.


So my two cents are yay for the IC notebook but nay to most of the restrictions.

Thank you for your feedback.

zeek0
2017-02-20, 08:20 AM
My 2 cents on the issue of holding layer notebooks:

I'm a player the likes to think on my character outside of the session. I imagine more things for their backstory, or other such things. I would like to have that notebook outside sessions, for that sake.

Also, I do think that I would be miffed to give it to a DM at the end of a session. I hold everything that is my character - personality notes, character sheet, etc. But for some reason my DM has to keep my character's journal?

Just my thoughts. I really like the idea however, since it adds a nice layer to the game between OOC and IC things.

daniel_ream
2017-02-20, 12:55 PM
Also, I do think that I would be miffed to give it to a DM at the end of a session. I hold everything that is my character - personality notes, character sheet, etc. But for some reason my DM has to keep my character's journal?

Part of the idea is to force the players to make choices about what to make notes on at the table. If they can add a bunch of stuff outside the session, it lessens the impact of "this journal - and only this journal - contains what we know about this island".

I think there might be a bit of confusion - this isn't a character journal, it's more a campaign notebook. This isn't going to be a character-focused campaign, it's an outwardly focused exploration hexcrawl. I don't anticipate people writing exhaustive backstories or personality notes for their characters because they're not likely to come up in play.

Yora
2017-02-20, 01:46 PM
Encouraging the players to keep notebooks is a good idea. But I wouldn't tie it to strictly only one form. There seems to be very little benefit in restricting it all to one book.

Also, this really only makes much sense if it's a campaign in which notes are relevant. In pretty much all the games I've ever played it just wasn't necessary to write anything down.

I am preparing a campaign in which the party will be explorers searching for ancient relics and artifacts and I'll be giving every player a +10% increase of XP for the previous session if they write a report and upload it.


So I've been thinking about running a wilderness exploration hexcrawl for a while - I'm leaning towards either X1 The Isle of Dread or X9 The Savage Coast.

Good call.

Stealth Marmot
2017-02-20, 01:46 PM
If you were a player, would this sound cool? Or just really annoying? Would having the journal afterwards be worth the effort?

That depends on the level of NPC Sean Connery's in the equation.

Anyway, sounds fun for me. Props and feelies are always fun for a game, just be sure to have someone who can act as a translator so any minor mistake you make isn't misinterpreted (an NPC cartogropher, or just someone with knowledge (geography)).

daniel_ream
2017-02-20, 02:07 PM
That depends on the level of NPC Sean Connery's in the equation.

I don't understand the reference. The players will be creating the journal.


Anyway, sounds fun for me. Props and feelies are always fun for a game, just be sure to have someone who can act as a translator so any minor mistake you make isn't misinterpreted (an NPC cartogropher, or just someone with knowledge (geography)).

No, a big part of this is what's in the book is what's in the book. Making a terrible mistake because you read something wrong is part of the assumed risk.

I am thinking that I may need to impose some kind of time limit for writing things down to keep the game from bogging down at the table, though.

Stealth Marmot
2017-02-20, 02:17 PM
I don't understand the reference. The players will be creating the journal.

Sean Connery played Henry Jones Sr. and Sean Connery makes everything better, even if it sucks it sucks in a much better way (Like Highlander 2). Your idea doesn't suck, but adding Sean Connery will make it better. Guaranteed.


No, a big part of this is what's in the book is what's in the book. Making a terrible mistake because you read something wrong is part of the assumed risk.

I am thinking that I may need to impose some kind of time limit for writing things down to keep the game from bogging down at the table, though.

Understood. But you should make sure to have a mechanism to get the party back on track after a while, otherwise they might meander for an extended period of time. Maybe the mechanism can be unpleasant, such as it costing gold or time (hiring an expensive translator) or someone getting attacked or even kidnapped. Just have something ready to club your players over the head with the solution IF NECESSARY.

It shouldn't be easy obviously, but if they can't figure it out or they don't see it the same way, the adventure stops and that sucks. Consequences are good, but they shouldn't end the adventure unless it's a TPK.

daniel_ream
2017-02-20, 09:26 PM
... Sean Connery makes everything better, even if it sucks it sucks in a much better way (Like Highlander 2). Your idea doesn't suck, but adding Sean Connery will make it better. Guaranteed.

Perhaps I'll have him play one of the Phanaton elders or something. That might work.


Understood. But you should make sure to have a mechanism to get the party back on track after a while, otherwise they might meander for an extended period of time.

It's an exploration hexcrawl. Meandering for an extended period of time is kind of the point, although eventually the need for food and fresh water will drive things.

zeek0
2017-02-21, 11:39 PM
Part of the idea is to force the players to make choices about what to make notes on at the table. If they can add a bunch of stuff outside the session, it lessens the impact of "this journal - and only this journal - contains what we know about this island".

I suppose I still don't understand. Even outside the game time, the players won't record anything they didn't learn in-session. You still control all the possible info they could put into the book.

Also, in the game the characters will have lots of time to record bits and peices in their journal - nights by the campfire, a 30 minute trekking break. Why not give your players the same opportunity?

(It seems to me that the only reason to hold notebooks is to control the characters inordinately. But if that is part of the story of the campaign or your players like that sort of thing, then go for it! Might be best to ask *them* about it though - they are the final arbiters, after all.)

daniel_ream
2017-02-22, 12:02 AM
I suppose I still don't understand. Even outside the game time, the players won't record anything they didn't learn in-session. You still control all the possible info they could put into the book.

...and keeping the journal outside of the session ensures they can't take info out of the book by making copies of it.


Also, in the game the characters will have lots of time to record bits and peices in their journal - nights by the campfire, a 30 minute trekking break. Why not give your players the same opportunity?

That's a much more salient question, and one I'm mulling at the moment. On the other hand, we elide lots of things that are obviously happening in the fiction when we play - characters relieving themselves, polishing or repairing armor, dressing the game for the night's dinner, etc. And we have frequent breaks in actual play to stretch, order food, or just recharge and mull a bit, so that may be adequate for allowing players to review what they've put in the journal.


(It seems to me that the only reason to hold notebooks is to control the characters inordinately.

This board really does seem to have an inordinate paranoia about GMs for some reason. It's not something I've ever encountered before.


Might be best to ask *them* about it though - they are the final arbiters, after all.)

Of course I will, I'm just soliciting feedback for any longer-term issues that someone might think of. I know that if anyone feels "insulted" by the restriction they'll say so right up front. I'm more wondering about logistics issues.

Storm_Of_Snow
2017-02-22, 08:59 AM
My view would be kind of the inverse (and a lot of work for you unfortunately) - the journals are already filled in and owned by the players, but they also have to decode what's in them in order to go to the right place, solve particular puzzles and so on.

Lord Torath
2017-02-22, 11:48 AM
I love the idea of a semi-authentic-appearing campaign journal. Sketches of the local fauna, descriptions, directions, and maps? Sounds wonderful! I personally would prefer to be able to peruse the journals outside of the gaming session. But that really doesn't matter.

What matters is what your players feel about it. Tell them your plans, explain your reasoning, and listen to how they feel about it and why. Then make your final decisions about how it will be used. Because ultimately, their opinions are far more important than ours.

Have fun!

Edit: Dinotopia (https://www.amazon.com/Dinotopia-Land-Apart-Time-Anniversary/dp/1606600222) and The World Beneath (https://www.amazon.com/Dinotopia-World-Beneath-Anniversary-Editions/dp/1606600338/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1606600338&pd_rd_r=AEMPCXRHQVPZ4XGE5K2G&pd_rd_w=oTARO&pd_rd_wg=QHx7P&psc=1&refRID=AEMPCXRHQVPZ4XGE5K2G) are good examples of this, though presumable far more ornate than what you'll probably end up with.

Honest Tiefling
2017-02-22, 04:48 PM
Personally? No. Firstly, I have very bad handwriting, so good luck to anyone to read it. I ALSO have very bad spelling, leading to many a post here and other places correcting it. I don't really care to have my real-life dyslexia bleed into the game, thank you.

I also dislike the idea for the reason that I might need to edit something to make the backstory fit the game. Some people may not like it, but I like to edit any details of a backstory that hasn't come up yet to better fit the game. Also, I like to review a game between sessions to remind myself of what has happened and things to try out. I am also horrible at names, so unless your players have a very good memory (and are familiar with the names...) this could cause some issues of the characters having extreme memory problems of not remembering a name they were told an hour ago because it happened last session.

I really don't think that forcing players to ONLY take notes in the journal is a good idea, especially for some OoC notes. (Such as what to ask the DM for clarification on). But offering some cheap notebooks (I assume you are not giving your players expensive things, if so, good for you. That's pretty generous) to take IC notes in for flavor and fun is a completely different deal and one I think people would like. It would make a great keepsake for the campaign, but don't punish players for trying to get immersed in your campaign!

Also, a IC map that looks like a map they would have that could be folded into the book would be both awesome and helpful.

daniel_ream
2017-02-22, 05:29 PM
I also dislike the idea for the reason that I might need to edit something to make the backstory fit the game. Some people may not like it, but I like to edit any details of a backstory that hasn't come up yet to better fit the game.

As I mentioned above, it's an exploration hexcrawl in a Golden Age of Exploration mold. Backstories are highly unlikely to matter beyond a bit of colour.


I really don't think that forcing players to ONLY take notes in the journal is a good idea, especially for some OoC notes. (Such as what to ask the DM for clarification on).

A good point, but then that is what the book is for. I would assume they would stay in character for that, though: "Day 24. Peaks visible through mists - foothills, or mountains we are seeking?"


[...] don't punish players for trying to get immersed in your campaign!

Again with the paranoia.

As a tangent, would you consider a GM starting a campaign with "you're all naked except for loincloths, enslaved in prison cells" to be "punishment"? Because that's every bit as much a strong limit on what players can do within the context of the game, yet I see that as a common campaign starter around here.