Hexblade Kensei

[X3r4ph]

I have been trying to wrap my head around this combination, sure there is the issue of MAD. But if you rolls for ability scores sometimes you become lucky. And that got my thinking.

Do you think there is anything to gain by mixing these two classes?

How would the Hexblade fare with a Dexterity based Curse Bringer?

Is Curse Bringer awesome for the Kensei?

Any synergy here?

[jaappleton]

I have been trying to wrap my head around this combination, sure there is the issue of MAD. But if you rolls for ability scores sometimes you become lucky. And that got my thinking.

Do you think there is anything to gain by mixing these two classes?

How would the Hexblade fare with a Dexterity based Curse Bringer?

Is Curse Bringer awesome for the Kensei?

Any synergy here?

Kinda-sorta. I thought of it awhile ago, but it's essentially not worth it.

Really, the only benefit is that you can use the Cursebringer 2H greatsword with Dex. I don't think that's worth a three level dip.

[Dr. Cliché]

Thematically it makes sense, but I think it's lacking mechanically.

As you say, it's very MAD to begin with. Even if you roll well in terms of starting stats, you've still got issues in terms of picking which ones to increase every 4 levels and doing that instead of taking feats.

You've then got the issue of wasted/redundant abilities. If you're using a monk, then the medium armour proficiency of the Hexblade is wasted. Since you'll want dex for AC, the ability to use Cha for attack/damage is going to be largely wasted as well. Then there's the fact that your level 6 monk ability can be replicated by Pact of the Blade at lv3. Oh, and the bonus weapon proficiency from Kensai are useless (as Hexblades are proficient in all martial weapons, not to mention anything made with Pact of the Blade). Then you've got Shadow Hound, which isn't redundant per se, but basically useless on a melee-oriented class.

Then there's the issue of what levels to aim for in the respective classes. If you invest more in Warlock, you'll have more spells, Invocations and such, but your martial arts will be weak and you'll have relatively few Ki points. If you invest in Monk, then your Curse's heal will be lacking, you'll have few spells/invocations and you'll miss out on the excellent lv10 and lv14 features (I'd lean towards Warlock 14/Monk 6 for that reason alone).

The main bonus I can think of is that Martial Arts gives you a better chance to crit and lets you get more use out of the proficiency bonus to damage part of the curse. However, given that you'll probably spend most of your career only being able to curse once per short rest *and* with relatively few Ki points, it seems like a bad thing to try and build a class around.

If you do want to do this, I'd strongly suggest considering a different type of Monk (since Kensai has a lot of redundancy with Hexblade). Shadow Monk would give you Minor Illusion, a way to cast Darkness (if you fancy taking the Devil's Sight invocation) and an unlimited use teleport that also gives advantage.

[Garresh]

I did a little number crunching, and while it is incredibly suboptimal, it might still be viable. You pretty much *have* to go for a greatsword curse bringer build though, since the Cha to weapons is wasted otherwise. But! If you dump cha to the minimum of 13, and pump up dex and wis, you wind up with a regular monk with some utility magic, invocations, and a super-crit via curse bringer. Basically the armor proficiencies and hexblade tricks are wasted, but you still get their defining curse for big bads, which makes your nova potential absolutely absurd. I mean, going by the minimum of level 6, assuming human variant with GWM, you could be hitting for 2d6+16+4d8(gwm +dex +prof+curse bringer) + 2d4+12(2 flurry unarmed +dex + prof), which comes out to an average nova of 58 damage, and you can do this 2 turns in a row, then flurry 1 additional round after that. At level 9, you can take 2 additional levels in monk and 1 in warlock for asi, bumping your nova to 4d6+38+8d8 for the sword hits, then 2d6+18 for the unarmed flurry, which averages 113 nova damage in one round. Plus your sustained damage stays high for the rest of the fight.

In short, the build basically turns you into a boss killer, and a high mobility hexblade who trades defenses and high powered spells for utility and speed. Its not optimal, but it seems workable at least.

Edit: For people saying it has anti-synergy, they forget the potency of hexblade's curse with flurry. Its going to be an extra +6 damage over a pure hexblade on any round you flurry, and people underestimate the power of warlock invocations. If you go mage armor, you can dump wis to 13 instead, get 16 cha, and stop advancing monk past level 4. You'll still be behind in spellcasting, but then you get to have good spell saves so you can hellish rebuke for even extra damage.

And this entire theorycraft hasn't explored the option of taking Warcaster to go for a melee hex build. In that case, by level 9 your SUSTAINED damage becomes 4d6+36+2d6 for great sword, and 2d6+16+2d6, or averaging 87 dpr. If you drop flurry and the curse, leaving just hex(to assume no resource expenditures), you still do 4d6+28+2d6 and 1d6+4+1d6 for average 60 dpr at level 9, without expending anything but hex. Mearls said kensei weapons are monk weapons, but even assuming that isnt the case you average 49 dpr, which admittedly is something a pure hexblade can reach, but you get the advantage of being much faster, and depending on build you get the stunning strike utility as well.

In short, the build has many weaknesses, but if you can leverage its strengths, its certainly viable.

[Vaz]

Warlocks don't have much use for a Bonus Action. A Warlock using something like Half Elf, or Water Genasi would get some mileage out of this. A Booming Blade, with a Bknus Action Disengage is a decent way to encourage additional damage, especially pre 8th, and the ability to Fight Defensively is pretty good considering you lack a Shield and Armour (without excessiveley pumping Wis) However that requires your DM to allow you to make an Unarmed Strike rather than the Greatsword for the additional attack; thirsting blade specifies you can attack twice with Pact Weapon.

Dex 15/Con 10/Wis 15/Cha 13 on a Water Genasi gives you Con 12, 16's in Wis, Dex and Cha. Half Elf with 15/15/15 gets gets 18 in Cha at the expense of Con, Water Breathing, Swim Speed and utility spells to help out during party adventuring and to provide you with 3/4 Cover when you have time to prepare.

Invocations are Devil's Sight or Agonizing Blast as you prefer, Curse Bringer, Thirsting Blade with Improved Pact Weapon at Warlock 7, or Relentless Hex to reduce your Ki Point usage.

[Steampunkette]

It is a -bit- MAD... but I dunno how -bad- it really is.

Get a decent Dex, Con, and Charisma and ignore your Wis. You don't need it. Throw on the Armor of Shadows invocation and use Charisma or Dex to attacks and damage with Cursebringer. It doesn't -count- as armor and it gives you 13+Dex. It's not as high as it could be, sure, but it's decent. Though it requires 3 levels of Warlock before you Multiclass. And until that point you can be wearing a Chain Shirt or something similar.

Once you've got your monk level, ditch your armor and enjoy your increased speed, ability to take an extra attack every turn (two if you use Ki), and your expanded bonus action options. You're giving up some AC and high end Arcana for the ability to run faster, jump farther, hit more often, and so on.

While you're taking a few levels of Monk to pick up abilities you're delaying your extra attack, but Eldritch Blast and Green Flame Blade can offset that delay.

Warlock 14, Kensei 6.

It's also got nice Short Rest synergy: You get your 6 Ki back after every short rest, and your 2-3 spell slots.

[X3r4ph]

I like the Bonus Action economy.

I guess combat would go something like this:

Turn 1
Bonus Action: Hexblade's Curse
Action: 2*Curse Bringer

Turn 2
Bonus Action: Flurry of Blows until level 5. Stunning Fist at level 5. +2 AC as an added benefit.
Action: 2*Curse Bringer

Rinse Repeat

If you are struggling in combat you could forego Flurry of Blows/Stunning Fist and Dodge instead.

I would like to add som Reactions to this guy. Sure you have Deflect Arrows... but how would Defensive Duelist work? It isn't exactly Shield but it doesn't eat up your spell slots.