Wizards and the Shield Master feat.

[Edgerunner]

I have 1 lvl of Cleric on my Divination Wizard and I Use a shield and have War Caster already.

Would Shield master compliment this build at all?
Admittedly I am not in the habit of getting in melee range so the first bonus of doing a 'Shield Shove' does very little for me.

The 2nd bonus seems situational but isn't bad.
you can add your shield’s AC
bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against
a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you.

The 3rd one however is the reason Why I am asking. about 60-70% of the damage I take comes from getting caught up in AOE spells and Dragon's Breath.
If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to
make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage,
you can use your reaction to take no damage if
you succeed on the saving throw, interposing your
shield between yourself and the source o f the effect.

Is this Worth an ASI just for that?

[Specter]

Nope. The best part is the first one, because Wizards don't have much bonus action usage. But then again if you're a pure Wizard, chances are you won't shove very well.

The dex save benefits are lame because a) you can learn Absorb Elements already and b) your reaction is constantly busy with other stuff.

Take +2 INT or Lucky/Tough when in doubt.

[DivisibleByZero]

Is this Worth an ASI just for that?


Nope.

Subjective.
Is it worth it to you, personally, to trade an ASI for evasion? Only you can answer that.

[Spectre9000]

Subjective.
Is it worth it to you, personally, to trade an ASI for evasion? Only you can answer that.
Partial Evasion. He still takes full damage on a fail, whereas Evasion makes it half damage on a fail.


Is it worth it? How good is your Dex Save? I would say Resilient(Dex) is far more worth it than Shield Master if you're not already proficient in Dex Saves. Also, you have Haste which gives you advantage on Dex saves, though it requires concentration. If you have 20 Dex and Dex Save proficiency, I'd say this might be worth it. Its value is entirely dependent on how good at Dex Saves you are. If you're not succeeding on them, then this is worthless; if you're always succeeding this is virtually free immunity which is godlike.

[DivisibleByZero]

Partial Evasion. He still takes full damage on a fail, whereas Evasion makes it half damage on a fail.

I was talking about Evasion in the traditional sense, not in the newly changed 5e sense, which is actually Improved Evasion in the traditional sense.

[Spectre9000]

I was talking about Evasion in the traditional sense, not in the newly changed 5e sense, which is actually Improved Evasion in the traditional sense.

This is a 5e forum, so "traditional" vs "newly changed 5e" doesn't really hold much here. Everything everyone is talking about on here is presumed to be 5th Edition given that it's the 5th edition forum.

[Joe the Rat]

In this case, shield master is to dex saves as warcaster is to con saves: specific, situational benefit. Evasion-on-success, and shield-to-dex-save on single target effects (vs advantage on concentration saves). Resilient provides better all around benefits related to the saves (and if you aren't picking up Res(CON), Res(Dex) is a reasonable option), but this has specific benefits for a caster. Getting hit with a fireball, for example, gives you two shots at holding concentration: The Dex save success means no damage taken (no concentration roll needed), and if that fails, you still have advantage on the concentration check from warcaster.

If you have Athletics and/or passable strength, Shield Master gives you some options on the rare situation you do end up with someone in your face. You can attempt to shove 5' as a bonus action, which gets you out of reach so you can book it without using spell slots, not using your action to shocking grasp for a free getaway, or spending a slot to misty step or Expeditious Retreat. Or knock someone down for a better chance of landing that touch spell.

[DivisibleByZero]

This is a 5e forum, so "traditional" vs "newly changed 5e" doesn't really hold much here. Everything everyone is talking about on here is presumed to be 5th Edition given that it's the 5th edition forum.

Pedantry. There's no need for it.

[Specter]

Don't forget that Evasion, now or then, never cost your reaction. Shield Master's watered-down Evasion does. That's a huge deal-breaker.

[DivisibleByZero]

That's a huge deal-breaker.

Maybe for you. And now I'll repeat my assertion that whether or not it is worth it happens to be completely subjective. Only the person asking the question can answer.

[Naanomi]

I could imagine a yuan-ti evoker with shield mastery dropping fireballs on themselves... a bit of a corner case, but not worthless

[Specter]

Maybe for you. And now I'll repeat my assertion that whether or not it is worth it happens to be completely subjective. Only the person asking the question can answer.

When you replace 'Evasion' in your first post with 'a worse type of Evasion', you and I will be in complete agreement.

[Drackolus]

Using up your reaction also prevents you from later using shield or counterspell that round. You obviously won't do those very often, but it's something to consider.
If you could do the bash when using an attack cantrip, I would say "go for it." As it stands, I think there are better options. Tough will give you more health, as would a simple con boost. If you haven't already, getting 20 int is quite nice for a wizard. If you have an odd dex or con, resilient for that stat is a big boost.
There is something to be said for casting enlarge on yourself, sheathing your weapon, using the attack action to grapple and bonus action to prone, all with advantage. If you don't have athletics proficiency though, advantage still won't be enough to make that worthwhile. Plus, you would be in melee.

[JackOfAllBuilds]

All the reaction spells also use resources, this is something you can do every round you need it with your reaction. This gives you something to fall back on when you don't want to spend a spell slot

[Drackolus]

What is your current dex save bonus? The +2 will help, but if it's already very low, you won't be able to use it's reaction very often anyway.
May be a good pair with resilient:dex, so you are more likely to make the save in the first place. That's more of an investment, though.

[Talionis]

There is nothing wrong with taking the slightly worse evasion with a feat. Reaction on a Wizard is easier to give your reaction up than say Rogue

[Arkhios]

On the plus side, whenever you would use the Shield spell (if you have it), you could fluff it as if you interposed your actual shield against the attack (or in the case of Magic Missile, it would pull them towards it or something), in addition to using the shield to avoid other effects that apply.

[BillyBobShorton]

It sounds viable. You've laid out some solid mechanics for its use. I say go for it. ASI's are cool, but Feats add so much more flavor and uniqueness, I rarely pass them up, especially in tandem.

Try what YOU want to do, make YOUR character. The only way we get better and learn is through trial and error. Worst case, it still helps you in a bunch of ways, even if it doesn't become the "save my ass" combo you'd hoped it to be.

Think about your PC. A wizard in armor with a shield and a god on his side.

(I'd take Tempest Cleric, personally-so the rare times you DO get hit, they PAY for it, so it's not necessarily all bad when you take dmg-but it's your diviner build, have at it your way)

Run a checklist:

Guidance:YES! Shield of Faith. YES! Bless. YES! Healing word. YES! Wizard offense, defense, and utility spells. YES!

Two portent die, shield spell, blur's nice, solid feat stack, cure wounds... you've got yourself covered pretty well if you get slammed here and there. IMO, trying the shieldmaster/warcaster stack is very worth it. You may find you've created a unique caster build that has other players jealous and your DM patting you on the back (If he's good) or annoyed with you in conbat (if he thinks it's still 1978 and DM's are the enemy of the party).



Lucky is a nice alternative to consider as well down the road. Would round out your stayin' alive concept very well. But there's always levels 8 and 12...

[Specter]

There is nothing wrong with taking the slightly worse evasion with a feat. Reaction on a Wizard is easier to give your reaction up than say Rogue

Not really. Wizards use their reaction at least for Shield, Absorb Elements and Counterspell. Op has War Caster iirc, so he can use a spell as an op attack too.

[Arkhios]

Not really. Wizards use their reaction at least for Shield, Absorb Elements and Counterspell. Op has War Caster iirc, so he can use a spell as an op attack too.

However... Since when having many options was a bad thing? At least playing shouldn't begin to repeat itself too much.

[Caesar]

Shield master pairs well with high dex saves, just as warcaster pairs well with high con saves. As you have neither but already have invested in warcaster, you are far better off taking resilient(con) instead, which in all likelihood is going to see more use as well, assuming you use concentration spells (don't we all?).

It's rather funny, I was considering the exact same situation and build for my character in my current campaign.

[Malifice]

I have 1 lvl of Cleric on my Divination Wizard and I Use a shield and have War Caster already.

Would Shield master compliment this build at all?
Admittedly I am not in the habit of getting in melee range so the first bonus of doing a 'Shield Shove' does very little for me.

The 2nd bonus seems situational but isn't bad.
you can add your shield’s AC
bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against
a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you.

The 3rd one however is the reason Why I am asking. about 60-70% of the damage I take comes from getting caught up in AOE spells and Dragon's Breath.
If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to
make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage,
you can use your reaction to take no damage if
you succeed on the saving throw, interposing your
shield between yourself and the source o f the effect.

Is this Worth an ASI just for that?

Are you proficient in Dex saves? Being in heavy armor your Dex probably sucks, and you arent proficient.

Just take Absorb Elements and keep it prepared. It'll be the better option most times, and wont cost you a feat.

[JellyPooga]

However... Since when having many options was a bad thing? At least playing shouldn't begin to repeat itself too much.

This is something that should be said more often; too many times have I read "Oh, but it competes with X for your reaction/bonus action/action", which is daft, because more options is good options; the more options you have, the better it gets.

[Arkhios]

This is something that should be said more often; too many times have I read "Oh, but it competes with X for your reaction/bonus action/action", which is daft, because more options is good options; the more options you have, the better it gets.

Yeah. At least from a MMO-PvP perspective, the more tricks you have in your toolkit, the better.

PS. Shame on you, necromancers!

[MaxWilson]

I have 1 lvl of Cleric on my Divination Wizard and I Use a shield and have War Caster already.

Would Shield master compliment this build at all?
Admittedly I am not in the habit of getting in melee range so the first bonus of doing a 'Shield Shove' does very little for me.

The 2nd bonus seems situational but isn't bad.
you can add your shield’s AC
bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against
a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you.

The 3rd one however is the reason Why I am asking. about 60-70% of the damage I take comes from getting caught up in AOE spells and Dragon's Breath.
If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to
make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage,
you can use your reaction to take no damage if
you succeed on the saving throw, interposing your
shield between yourself and the source o f the effect.

Is this Worth an ASI just for that?

No. Learn Absorb Elements and spend your reaction on that instead. Resistance all the time is better than cutting half damage to no damage on a success. Also, Absorb Elements works against white dragon breath and many other Con-save-based effects, and Shield Master only works against Dex.

Yes, it costs a shield slot and a prepared spell slot, but it doesn't cost an ASI and it works better.

[Arkhios]

No. Learn Absorb Elements and spend your reaction on that instead. Resistance all the time is better than cutting half damage to no damage on a success. Also, Absorb Elements works against white dragon breath and many other Con-save-based effects, and Shield Master only works against Dex.

Yes, it costs a shield slot and a prepared spell slot, but it doesn't cost an ASI and it works better.

That's cute. "Resistance all the time"...

When the spell slots run out, you might feel differently.

[Beelzebubba]

This is something that should be said more often; too many times have I read "Oh, but it competes with X for your reaction/bonus action/action", which is daft, because more options is good options; the more options you have, the better it gets.

It can be a bummer to realize you never used one of them, though. Thinking ahead about how they'll compete, and thinking what kinds of situations your character will be getting into, is useful.

OP, I like the idea. What you're basically doing is pushing your Wizard in a tank-ier direction, by devoting your feat to defense. That's pretty much what a Druid is - they sit on the halfway point between a Cleric and Wizard when it comes to offensive capabilities and defensive power - so you're shaping yourself up into being more of a Cleric/Wizard hybrid than just a Wizard with a crunchy shell. I like characters like that, because they trade a bit of power for versatility, and they open up new ways to approach challenges.

This will give you a lot at lower levels, but at some point - around 12th, maybe 16th - you'll want to pick up Resilient: Dex to keep it viable. That's because the saving throws for your 'bad' save bonuses don't keep pace with the escalating save DCs. If you have room for that in your ASI/Feat tree, those two would work together to be better than just one or the other.

[JackPhoenix]

I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't need your advice 15 months after posting the question.